EQ2 vs WoW - revisited

Coskesh · Post by **Coskesh** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:26 pm

I'd prefer to hear from those that have played both, rather than fanbois chiming in on how much one or the other sucks, but all constructive comments are welcome.

With that said, having played EQ2 for a little over a week and having revisited the WoW beta last night (I played for a week back during the first stress test), I was suprised to find myself bored with WoW. It might be the paladin class I was trying out last night, but I just felt like "blah". People had stated that the games graphics received some tweaking in the passed month or 2, but I found myself adjusting my graphics in an attempt to just make the game look better. It didn't look as good as I remembered, but I'm not sure if that is because I had grown accustomed to EQ2's graphics.

I honestly thought that playing WoW this last week before EQ2s release would rekindle my excitement for WoW, and that I'd prob opt to buy WoW instead, but it was the total opposite. I can't really put my finger on why, but the game just felt more generic and basic than I remembered. I will say the intro is one of the best I have seen, but other than that, there was nothing to it. I'm letting a friend try out my EQ2 beta, so I'll definitely have more time to play WoW this weekend, but I was wondering about everyone elses take on the two now that/if they've had a chance to try both.

In summary, first stint with WoW was great, kept thinking "what a great game". Playing EQ2, I found myself at times frustrated but that frustration was coupled with more enjoyment/sense of accomplishment. I was suprised how much I was liking the game considering all the negative reviews. Now WoW just feels generic, and really don't care for the graphics.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:14 pm

I know I'm seen as the forum EQ2 fanboy, but I really will try to be non-partisan here.

I thought WoW was an utter BLAST when I first played it, and it remained really fun for several weeks. I still think it's a great game. I was disappointed in 3 key areas - crafting, death penalty, and graphics. Crafting was simply not innovative at all, and seemed a huge step backwards from crafting models in games like SWG and Horizons. The death penalty was weak - some people like that, I don't. I prefer the challenge. And graphically, while I thought the artwork was gorgeous and the gameworld one of the most varied and interesting I'd ever seen, technologically it was a bit crude.

EQ2 satisfies my problems with the big 3. Crafting is different from anything out there, and quite challenging and complex. The death penalty, while not overly frustrating ala EQ1, is still fairly significant. And the graphics of course are technologically impressive.

The big difference between the two games, I feel, is difficulty level. WoW has a very small learning curve - it's easy to pick up and play, and it's very, very soloable. EQ2 on the other hand has a much steeper learning curve (especially if you wish to craft and group fight well), and is simply going to be much harder to solo. Some people are going to enjoy the ease of WoW, I happened to get bored with it. Some people are going to enjoy the challenge of EQ2 like me, others will get frustrated and/or bored with it.

Long story short, you've got to pick the one that's going to fit your playstyle and your choice of difficulty level. They're both great games that raise the bar for MMORPGs.

fancydirt · Post by **fancydirt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:48 pm

For as easy as it is to get decent at WoW and how slight the learning curve is, there are a very large amount of high level players (45-60) who aren't even close to mastering the game. At higher levels, you need to know the classes, how to use them, have good reflexes and know what your team is going to do in order to do well in instances and PvP. There are high level instances that many won't do with fewer than 10-15 player raid groups that I've done with 5, and lower level ones meant for level 18-20 groups that groups with lower 20s players have trouble in. I duoed one with a guildie when we were 23 and 25, niether one of us was a healer class and we didn't have any close calls (granted, our low level characters are a bit better equipped than most people are at this level). Questing on the other hand is typically just as easy at 59 as it is at 5, with only a few exceptions.

I'll admit that I'm not happy that they keep dumbing down the game, but I can't blame them. They can't make it easy enough for the majority of the players in the game to play it the way Blizz intends it to be played. The new limitations on not being able to complete quests in instances with raid groups should finally force people into actually playing them and stop zerging them.

Can't comment on how it compares to EQ2 though. Sorry.

Post by **FishPants** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:04 am

I just got into the beta now, and my first impressions are this (Now keep in mind I haven't been lucky enough to get into EQ2, so I can't compare the two games directly):

1. The average age/maturity level in WoW is not impressive. I have met some children/doughheads that have the social graces of a leper. This seems to be pretty common (along with the same idiots in the General chat channel repeating "WoW kickz eqz azzzzzz!!!111!!!". That kind of shit has turned me off of the game already.

2. The graphics are kind of lame. I feel like I am playing a console game or something. Hard to really put my finger on, I guess it's the cartoonish style they took that doesn't sit right with me. The combat system is very simplistic (so far, playing as a druid).

Overall I am glad I shelled out a few bucks for a fileplanet account to try this, rather than buy the box down the road and get pissed off with wasted cash. But really the children running around in the game, and the graphics just don't cut it for me. Will I say the same about EQ2? Maybe. I found in EQ1 (which I played for years) that it was easy enough to find decent people to group/hang out with.

Jow · Post by **Jow** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:40 am

My interest in WoW has waned quite a bit, though I think it's a great game and I had a lot of fun throughout the spring/summer playing the beta. Waned interest is largely a result of lack of time to play and the concept of paying to play (which would result in me forcing myself to spend time playing, which I don't wanna do at the expense of everything else in my life).

I will say that for gamers who don't have a lot of time to invest, the "lenient" death penalty is a wonderful thing. Because of my limited gaming time, when I have jumped into WoW I've done so trying to accomplish as much as I can without futzing around and dying repeatedly. If I've only got an hour to play, I don't want to spend 30-45 minutes of it trying to overcome or deal with the consequences of dying.

Can't speak for EQ2 cus I've never played it, but after playing the original game for a short time some years ago I left unimpressed.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:59 am

Two games, one alpha post = PC Gaming in General. This forum is for threads involving one game only.

~Neal

Gebeker · Post by **Gebeker** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:51 pm

One reason I don't think I want to get into EQ2 is that I just don't trust the high level game to be any better than the mess that was EQ1. EQ1 was a blast to play for a long time but the high level game was horribly designed.

The entire high level game was designed around big, multigroup raids. The trouble was that they were insanely time consuming and boring. It was not unusual to sit around doing absolutely nothing for 3 hours while I waited for my guild to gather for a raid. Since raids took a minimum of 40 to 50 people, all of whom had to travel through dangerous zones to get to the raid site, it was virtually inevitable that a couple of people would die en route. This meant that the rest of the guild had to wait around while 3 or 4 people went on a long corpse retrieval mission.

EQ1 was designed to be addictive rather than fun (at least at the high levels). I've seen nothing about EQ2 to convince me that it is any different.

tals · Post by **tals** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 3:33 am

Currently I am in the WOW open beta. As a game I am enjoying it, the graphics I think are good and appropriate for the games origins. Game also runs smoothly for me which is a key one

So far I am enjoying the game so will hold off getting EQ2 till at least the open beta ends. EQ2 performance and to an extent game play are my big concerns. I would really love to play a demo or a trial before I jump into this one. We shall see if WOW keeps me hooked then no reason to jump to another MOG. Once people get it i'l be interested in views positive and negative. YK's have been very tempting

Tals

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:40 pm

You can't have raids that size in EQ2, Gebeker. Everything's geared towards smaller groups and smaller raid sizes. I haven't experienced the high level game though, so I can't comment on how different it is past the fact that they took steps to fix the raid issues in EQ1.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:50 pm

Does EQ2 have PvP?

Ale

Geezerone · Post by **Geezerone** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:56 pm

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:10 am

They won't have PvP at launch, though the developers have stated that "good vs. evil" guild PvP will be added at a later date. Don't know if that will be across all servers or if they'll have special PvP servers.

Faldarian · Post by **Faldarian** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 1:21 pm

I've read that solo ability is possible with every class in EQ2; is that not the case?

Soloing is important to me since I spend probably half my time with a game like this doing it. If I can't solo, no EQ2 for me.

WoW, on the other hand, doesn't grab me in the least. I've played the latest stress test for a bit, but it just has the feeling of CoH to me... can be fun for short periods of time, but not very satisfying and extraordinarily repetetive. I don't mind fighting a lot, but the constant stream of "run here, kill X for teeth, run there" quests really turned me off fast. I don't want to be doing fed-ex quests and kill tasks to collect body parts for any significant period of time. I love the graphics though.

Ranulf · Post by **Ranulf** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 2:46 pm

FishPants wrote:I just got into the beta now, and my first impressions are this (Now keep in mind I haven't been lucky enough to get into EQ2, so I can't compare the two games directly):

1. The average age/maturity level in WoW is not impressive. I have met some children/doughheads that have the social graces of a leper. This seems to be pretty common (along with the same idiots in the General chat channel repeating "WoW kickz eqz azzzzzz!!!111!!!". That kind of shit has turned me off of the game already.

That can suck but in the last stress test that wasn't my experience at all. It certainly had its share of lamers and l33t dudes but you can ignore/filter/listen to them get heckeled by others. I mostly soloed but in groups I only met one guy who was worthless and he didn't last long. The one "raid" I went on sucked and just reinforced why I rarely bother with them. Anyway, the lamer attitude exists in every game, just like in the real world.

2. The graphics are kind of lame. I feel like I am playing a console game or something. Hard to really put my finger on, I guess it's the cartoonish style they took that doesn't sit right with me. The combat system is very simplistic (so far, playing as a druid).

Fair enough, I can see why some wouldn't like the graphics or the combat system. As a casual player I kinda like the easy combat/crafting but then my gaming time is becoming severely limited these days (as is interest in playing for hours). I've not been lucky enough to get into the eq2 beta and so now I doubt I'll play the game unless they offer a demo/free weekend deal. From everything I've read, eq2 definately seems to be more oriented to the hardcore mmorpg gamer.

Charlatan · Post by **Charlatan** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:04 pm

Faldarian wrote:I've read that solo ability is possible with every class in EQ2; is that not the case?

Soloing is important to me since I spend probably half my time with a game like this doing it. If I can't solo, no EQ2 for me.

WoW, on the other hand, doesn't grab me in the least. I've played the latest stress test for a bit, but it just has the feeling of CoH to me... can be fun for short periods of time, but not very satisfying and extraordinarily repetetive. I don't mind fighting a lot, but the constant stream of "run here, kill X for teeth, run there" quests really turned me off fast. I don't want to be doing fed-ex quests and kill tasks to collect body parts for any significant period of time. I love the graphics though.

From my brief experience in EQ2, I think it's true that any class can solo. I played a Scout, a Priest, and a Mage class, and they all seemed to be able to do it. Now, speed of soloing, that's another matter, of course.

Plus I've heard that it slows down a lot in the mid teens and also after twenty. That said, if you're not in a race to get to a certain level, it sounded like it certainly was possible.

And EQ2 has a massive amount of quests too, many of which are "go here find this guy" and "kill X of mob Y" or "kill mob Y until you get X things" so at a certain level the games aren't THAT different. Of course, nobody's forcing you to do quests in EITHER game, you can go kill monsters just for experience in either of them.

Both games have done a lot to prevent users from picking "bad" combinations and making a character that's unable to solo. There is little distinguishing one Priest from another in WoW (talents, yeah, but not gear, and not spells), and there's little distinguishing one Druid from another in EQ2 (each one will have the same spells, so it's gonna come down to a small number of "benefits" you choose as you level up, and what gear you're wearing). EQ2 has a much more complex crafting structure, which has a high degree of interdependence (IMHO as bad as or worse than in SWG), whereas in WoW, crafting is more a limited by finding resources than by the crafting process itself.

In the end, it comes down to a matter of taste. Under the hood, the games aren't particularly different, and I think they'll both be successful.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:33 pm

Charlatan's correct - soloing is possible in EQ2 with every class all the way to 50. But nobody promised it's going to be fast.

While soloing is possible, group play is so much more efficient it's not even funny. Of course that's typically true in any MMORPG.

From my experience in both betas, WoW was more solo friendly. This coming from an EQ2 fanboy.

knob · Post by **knob** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:41 pm

YellowKing wrote:This coming from an EQ2 fanboy.

You've finally come out of denial.

Post by **FishPants** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:35 am

Yup as I continue to play WoW through the next phase of beta, I find that I enjoy the game more than my initial post on one of the other pages. I still stand by the fact the average maturity level on the servers doesn't seem to be that high, however once the requirement for a credit card happens maybe that will filter some of the kiddies out. (Or if nothing else the regular monthly fee since they could be buying game cards).

I enjoy the questing, but right now the spawns are the problem. People are all hunting the same creatures for quests resulting in "line ups" to kill mobs. This really brings me back to my lowbie days in EQ where folks would camp the Orc camps for hours. In short it sucks, last night they patched however introducing "Dynamic spawn code" which is meant to address this, I have no idea what that really means though.

Anyhow I am starting to change my opinion a bit, I rarely have more than 2 hours at a time to play any game and I think perhaps WoW might be the better choice for me. I can jump right in and start earning experience, and I don't need to search for a group at all to do it.. *shrug* I guess I am confused just like everyone else hehe.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:55 am

You've finally come out of denial.

Hence the sarcastic smiley. I put that line in just for you Valael.

knob · Post by **knob** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:27 pm

Yeah? I was fooling around, too.

But I still think you're a fanboy.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:41 am

It all comes down to this.

Which company do you trust more.

Blizzard or SOE

AttAdude · Post by **AttAdude** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:26 am

now ive played both. Ill make no bones about it, from what ive seen, EQ2 blows WOW out of the water. it really does not even compare. Thats not to say that wow is not a good game because it is. its an awsome game. However its nothing new. EQ2 on the other hand, is actualy doing some new stuff. Last night i had a quest that involved me cleaning up a room, by moving furniture into the right place, and destroying bad objects (like a burning barrel) Thats not to say moving a bed it revolutionary, but its damn sure not a fed ex quest, and that makes me happy.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:43 pm

Being the complete numbnuts that I am, I picked up EQ2 last night on my way home (i'm a numbnuts because i HAD to have it last night and couldn't wait for the DVD version...which I regretted almost immediately after beginning the 9 DISK INSTALL!!). So far it's pretty fun. The graphics are fantastic. The voiced NPC's makes a big difference, IMHO. I'll probably still play WOW to see what it's like (downloading the beta now...should be finished by Easter of next year), but I anticipate at least 2 to 3 months in EQ2 (my average).

Question though for you old timers: what happened to the artisan class? has tradesman been pulled from the archetypes?

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:55 pm

Question though for you old timers: what happened to the artisan class? has tradesman been pulled from the archetypes?

Artisan is no longer a separate archetype, all classes can be an artisan now (though you can eventually specialize in only one branch like weaponsmithing or armorsmithing).

A lot of people are upset because it's really no longer feasible to be a pure artisan (at least not without a great deal of difficulty). I certainly wouldn't attempt it. I imagine there will be a lot of tweaks to artisans over the coming months, simply because they never realized their potential in beta and were in fact cut back quite a bit.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:02 pm

thanks for the update YK.

what server are most of you guys on, by the way?

Post by **godhugh** » Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:59 pm

Okay, here's my question (I'm sure it's been answered elsewhere, but I'm supposed to be working so I'll ask here real fast)...

I've played the first WoW stress test and it's fun. Real fun, but I stopped playing before the end of it. Not sure why, but I wasn't really pulled in.

Has enough changed in WoW since that time to change this?

In addition, does EQ2 add enough truly new stuff to overcome the same old, same old feeling that WoW has?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:48 pm

Okay, i've now had a chance to play both EQ2 and WoW (open beta, of course).

My impressions:

1) Graphics in EQ2 are much, much, much more realistic and impressive than WoW. I cranked up some settings on my EQ2 options last night and panned around my character. The shadows playing around the bumps in his vest made the whole thing almost photorealistic. Tres impressive.
WoW, on the other hand, has a cartoony look that I can't quite get into yet.

2) Gameplay seems pretty similiar between the two, but that's more a situation brought on by the nature of MMORPG's. Get quest, kill things, get XP and maybe some neat pants. Both WoW and EQ2 have a pretty comprehensive back story that gives you a bit more reason behind the quests, but they're intrinsically the same.

3) Skills, Spells, Combat Arts, etc. are better implemented in WoW, IMHO. I like being able to choose my skills/spells/whatever when levelling and WoW does this quite well. See a trainer, choose from list (if you've met the prereq's and you have the coin). EQ2 assigns you these things when you reach a new level without your input. To be fair, people say that EQ2 will do this with other things later in the game, but when I hit 8 was just given a choice between 4 stats to increase slightly. Not much input there. At least not enough for me.

4) Sound is way better in EQ2, but that's probably because WoW is still in beta. I actually couldn't even get combat sounds in WoW last night during play. Must be a bug.

Conclusion: Well, so far EQ2 is edging out WoW a bit. Mostly due to graphics (it's amazing how much a cartoony world and characters can ruin the immersion factor of an MMORPG...of course, that's simply MY opinion).
I'm going to be fair and give WoW some true playtime this weekend, though. Perhaps I'll change my mind based on gameplay.

The Mad Hatter · Post by **The Mad Hatter** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 11:43 am

Argh, EQ2 is tempting me. I'm an old-school UO gamer who never got into the original Everquest - it didn't let me kill all the idiots, and that always annoys me. That version of UO is long dead though and it's been years since I've gotten into a MMOG. Maybe I could do the group thing if I really work at it.

tals · Post by **tals** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:48 pm

tbh if you liked UO for the PVP then it is possible that WOW is more your thing.

EQ2 is hopefully with me by Tuesday and i'll be able to post up some impressions, but i've as of yet not really got into WOW.

tals

knob · Post by **knob** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:02 pm

hepcat wrote:Conclusion: Well, so far EQ2 is edging out WoW a bit. Mostly due to graphics (it's amazing how much a cartoony world and characters can ruin the immersion factor of an MMORPG...of course, that's simply MY opinion).
I'm going to be fair and give WoW some true playtime this weekend, though. Perhaps I'll change my mind based on gameplay.

I'm the exact opposite. High end graphics in an MMO almost always equals lag in any sort of crowded situation or in any major town (Hardware lag, I mean). That kills immersion for me. Graphics don't equate to much when I play.

Honestly, after playing EQ2, I don't see where the praise comes from. The graphics are good, but I'm still pretty unimpressed. The character models are enough to ruin it for me.

The Mad Hatter · Post by **The Mad Hatter** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:19 pm

tals wrote:tbh if you liked UO for the PVP then it is possible that WOW is more your thing.

tals

I liked UO for the hunting and the killing, not the PvP. Big difference there - PvP invariably attracts cheaters and the worst kind of idiots. They were the most fun to hunt, since they could never fight outside of a group.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:49 am

Valael wrote:
hepcat wrote:Conclusion: Well, so far EQ2 is edging out WoW a bit. Mostly due to graphics (it's amazing how much a cartoony world and characters can ruin the immersion factor of an MMORPG...of course, that's simply MY opinion).
I'm going to be fair and give WoW some true playtime this weekend, though. Perhaps I'll change my mind based on gameplay.

I'm the exact opposite. High end graphics in an MMO almost always equals lag in any sort of crowded situation or in any major town (Hardware lag, I mean). That kills immersion for me. Graphics don't equate to much when I play.

Honestly, after playing EQ2, I don't see where the praise comes from. The graphics are good, but I'm still pretty unimpressed. The character models are enough to ruin it for me.

trust me, i'm no fan boy of eq2 (or ANY mmorpg as they all have a 30 to 60 day interest period for me), but i'm honestly surprised you think the models are in any way, shape, or form a detriment. i thought THAT was at least one area that everyone agreed upon...that eq2 simply is gorgeous.

but you are right about one thing, graphics DO NOT solely make a game and i hope i didn't come across as saying that.

i'm going to piddle around with crafts today and see how they are. i have a scout i made last night that i'm really enjoying and want to make some of his weapons eventually. so far artisan stuff seems pretty well handled.

tried to play WoW yesterday, but it went down about 20 minutes in and i didn't feel like waiting for the servers to come up. i'll try again today.

knob · Post by **knob** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:24 pm

I don't know. For me, for some reason or another, if an MMO is trying to have bleeding edge graphics, it automatically loses points. Maybe SWG and AO (When it was released, I'm convinced it's better now) left a sour taste in my mouth.

Falcon554 · Post by **Falcon554** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:12 pm

Well im a gfx whore

I think EQ2 is one of the best looking games I have ever played its like a MMO Far Cry. Does it slow down soemtime yea it does but hell so did Horizons and that looked like ass.

Wow does run better but the char are very blocky and that does bug me sometimes.

Lockdown · Post by **Lockdown** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:51 am

At the moment, EQ2 has the edge for me. I am finding it difficult to play WoW to even do more comparing. I have a nice system, so I can run EQ2 at a pretty high level, and it looks really good (if drab in some areas).

I like the ability to solo, while at the same time giving you some cool bonuses if you DO group is really great. I also hope the customization of my character becomes more obvious as I level up though. I got the +4 bonus to Wisdom (my choice) at level 8. I understand I get a racial bonus choice at level 10. What's coming up as far as choices over the next 10 levels? Does anyone know?

Now - If I could only learn what the hell I'm doing on that crafting table !!!

LD