Wow or EQ2

[tals]

With two big heavy weights coming into the MOG arena this is going to be a fun time

My plan is to get EQ2, its cheap in the UK (£17.99) - see bargain bin so will allow me to trial it. Currently I have no plan to get WOW - for some reason it just hasn't interested me in the same way.

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/ ... redir=true

Is a player review of EQ2.

Tals

[fancydirt]

I had no interest in either but ended up getting into the WoW beta because one of the guys I know on IRC is an in house tester at Blizzard. I didn't even start playing the game until I'd had the account for almost two months. Now I'm fairly addicted (playtime on my main character is over 30 days now), but I doubt I'll be going with it at retail. I'd just rather have the time to put towards something else. WoW has been insanely fun, but I think I'd be best off if I just moved on.

[knob]

I have some play time with EQ2 and a lot of play time with WoW. Going by that, I'm all for WoW. Blizzard, atleast in beta, seems pretty responsive to the community (Except for a few select issues). And they've created a world that's pretty fresh and new. EQ2's world just feels too "Been there, done that" for me. Sure, it's mostly different, but it still feels like the game I played for 4ish years already. I want something new after all that time.

Going by some of the EQ2 reviews from other people, I'm more willing to let EQ2 slide. I'm a little tempted to pick it up at release, but it seems that once you hit the midrange levels (20 - 30 on up), leveling slows down to a grind. And I fucking hate grinds.




My personal view of MMORPGs: Level 1 all the way up to the cap is just filler. You can have a lot of fun in the process, but for me, the majority of the fun doesn't occur until you can participate in the end game. Being forced to level to keep up is too much like a job.

Regardless of how much fun I have with the people I'm playing with, the grind up to the end levels is just too damn sickening after all of the MMOs I've played.

WoW still has the grind, but it seems to be a lot more enjoyable for me because I can log on for an hour a day, or just an hour a week, and atleast make a decent dent in my current level. The quests are interesting, the world is beautiful and different. I'm convinced that most of the people who hate WoW's graphics just haven't had a chance to sit down and play it on their own. The artwork is absolutely incredible. And it has gotten better with the past few patches.

And here's a fancy comparison, just because I can..


EQ2, to me, seems like a bag of plain potato chips. I liked them when I was younger, but now I need something more.

WoW is like an awesome new flavor just released. If you're a freak with no taste buds, you could say it's those nasty Ketchup Pringles. But you get my point.

[YellowKing]

I'm the exact opposite of Valael, though I understand his point of view.

I've got several hours of playtime with EQ2 and several months of playtime with WoW, so bear that in mind.

My biggest problem with WoW boils down to two factors: lack of innovation and simplicity (both graphics and gameplay).

WoW is a great game, but the combat system, the crafting system, etc. has all been lifted from previous games. The talent system is about the biggest innovation, but even that has been lifted from Diablo 2 more or less. The questing system is really well done, but I found myself growing tired of it over time (though I suspect the same will happen to me in EQ2 as well). That's not to say that WoW doesn't do things WELL, because it does. I just found myself growing bored with it very quickly. If WoW had been coming out by itself, I probably would have overlooked this point, but I knew EQ2 was going to have an innovative crafting system, a new combat wheel feature, a new guild system, full voice-overs, etc.

The second complaint is in the simplicity. The graphics are beautiful, but they're simple. I tend to prefer realism over the animated cel-shaded look, so perhaps much of that is my bias showing. However, in a next-gen MMORPG I expect next-gen graphics. In this area WoW disappointed. The gameplay is just too simple for my tastes as well. The death penalty is virtually non-existent. I was never afraid of dying, and it took much of the feeling of danger or risk out of the game for me. The cartoon graphics combined with the hand-holding just made the game seem somewhat kid-like to me, and again I found myself getting bored quickly. Some people will enjoy that simplicity, and I can't fault anyone for that.

I played EQ on and off for many, many months after it launched, but quit after getting burned out. I then spent the next few years playing every MMORPG I could get my hand on, and ended up trying (and failing) to recapture the magic of EQ. When I look back, I simply haven't enjoyed a MMORPG as much as I did the original EQ. Whereas some people will find the world of EQ2 stale, I see it as returning home to an old friend.

I don't think either game is necessarily "better" than the other (though I have vigorously defended what I perceived as some very unfair attacks against EQ2). I've very much enjoyed my time with both games, and can easily say that based on what I've played so far, both games are superior to any other MMORPG on the market. Both games are going to be smash hits, and I imagine both games are going to be around for years to come.

[Ax]

I have been in EQ2 beta for a while and a good friend of mine is in beta of WoW, I have seen and played both games and without a doubt I will be playing EQ2.

[Coskesh]

Well, I was with YK on this one till I read this in depth review by a mature player. I'll probably pick it up eventually, but it doesn't sound like the game I want to play right now.

I wasn't looking for EQlite, I was looking for something even more engrossing and complex. If I want EQlite, I'll go for WoW.

[YellowKing]

I would like to address some points made in that review. Keep in mind this lady has been in beta a hell of long time more than I have, so maybe all I'll do is make myself look like an idiot when all is said and done. But there were some things I wanted to comment on and provide some alternate perspective.

Graphics:

It's true the game is a performance hog, but there are a LOT of customization options to balance it out for your rig. The reviewer doesn't tell us what settings she was using. The developers have stated that there isn't a machine on the market that can smoothly run this game at MAX settings, and this is intentional. In addition, the lag she's speaking about has already been discussed by the producer who said most of the current beta lag has already been identified and solutions are going into place before launch. I think the game still looks great, but it does take some tweaking to get the best quality/performance ratio.

Voice Overs:

I agree they're well done. The background random VOs haven't bothered me as much as they have her, but then again I haven't played as long.

Spells:

It's true that the spell list has less variety than in EQ. But some people miss the point that spells are meant to be upgraded over time, so that no spell is ever useless. What they were trying to do is eliminate the 30 spells in your spellbook you never used anymore because they were too low-level. Maybe "Heal 2" isn't as exciting as getting a uniquely named spell, but if they do the same thing what difference does it make? I think SOE will eventually do some tweaking in this area to address some of the complaints. For now it doesn't bother me much.

Quests:

I don't feel as harshly towards the quest journal as the reviewer does, but the inability to remove a quest could be majorly irritating. I imagine they'll fix that eventually. There are a LOT of quests though, so customization sorts would be nice. As it stands now, the quest journal is at least as effective as WoW's (they're virtually identical).

Artisan class:

I have to agree completely with this. Just being an Artisan is not a valid option. It doesn't bother me since I never planned on playing a pure crafter, but those who want to do pure crafting I think will be disappointed.

Crafting:

Can't say much here as I haven't done a lot of crafting. What she's saying echoes a lot of what I'm reading though, so I have no reason to doubt her sincerity.

Housing and the Marketplace:

She again complains of city lag that I simply haven't experienced. Perhaps it has been fixed since she wrote this. I do wholeheartedly agree with her complaint about having to stay in your house in order to vend. I think it's a rather silly idea. No offline vendors I can understand and appreciate, but I think you should be able to set up an NPC vendor to sell wares while you're off adventuring, and just have him "poof" when you log out. Hopefully they'll adjust that, as I can't imagine anyone wanting to sit around in their house waiting for customers.

Travel:

I'm really torn on travel. Part of me did enjoy the adventure of long dangerous journeys in EQ, waiting on the ship, etc. The other part of me really doesn't want to run all the way slam hell across Freeport to get to where I need to go. The zones are bigger now, which makes running across them quite a time investment. I can see where the insta-travel is going to be controversial, and I honestly can't blame either side. I still can't make up my mind on the subject.

Guilds:

No comment, haven't gotten into this area yet.

Experience:

Like she said, this is stuff that will continually be tweaked. I haven't really done enough quests to notice the XP fluctuations she describes. So far if anything I've felt that leveling is too fast (especially compared to the early days of EQ). The designers have stated that they wanted to push everyone through 20, and then slow the game down once everyone has diversified into their subclass.

Death Penalty:

This gal is obviously pretty hardcore if she wants to go back to losing XP. I think the XP debt strikes a nice balance between penalty versus frustration. I don't like WoW's system of basically doing nothing to penalize death, but being married now I don't really have the game time to be re-earning XP I've already earned once.

I disagree COMPLETELY with the reviewer's negative view of group XP debt sharing. I think it's a terrific idea, and don't think the naysayers truly understand what a nice option it is. I won't go into detail about it here, but if anybody wants to know my reasoning let me know.

Combat:

I agree with her gripes of the conning system. Part of the fun in EQ was not having all the information about how tough a creature was.

Her combat wheel complaints are invalid. The combat wheel in group situations was meant for large, tough mobs and lengthy battles. It's simply not meant to be used for every goblin or wolf that walks by. If your group doesn't have enough time to finish a wheel before the mob dies, then you're fighting mobs that are much lower than what the wheel was intended for. Most of the complaints I've seen about the combat wheel are coming from people who don't understand the combat wheel's purpose in the game.

There is no doubt that the game has been simplified for newer players. However, I don't know what I'd call it EQLite. I don't think any game is ever going back to what EQ was in its early days - heck, even EQ1 changed over time to become less "hardcore." EQ2 is simply *different*, and old-time EQ players are going to have a hard time with that if they're wanting more of the same. Personally from what I've seen so far, EQ2 is still leaps and bounds above most other games in terms of depth.

I have to sit back and think about how EQ1 was ripped to shreds in beta, how people bitched and moaned, heck - how I couldn't play for an entire week after I bought it because of login server issues. I don't think EQ2 is a perfect game right now, but it shows a lot of promise that I'm hoping will be fulfilled. We'll just have to wait and see. For now, at least, I'm having a blast with it.

[The Meal]

Alpha posts in a thread comparing multiple titles belong in Gaming in General. Unreleased Games and PC Games by Title are both intended for threads about a single game (at least initially, we don't move threads as conversations wander about).

This thread is being moved to Gaming in General.

~Neal

[Meghan]

what about a third choice? Any interest in Guild Wars here?

[tals]

Yep good call regarding Guild Wars and the public event starts next Friday However that said its not due till 2005 and they have something against non US preorders

Tals

[EngineNo9]

Alpha posts in a thread comparing multiple titles belong in Gaming in General. Unreleased Games and PC Games by Title are both intended for threads about a single game (at least initially, we don't move threads as conversations wander about).

This thread is being moved to Gaming in General.

~Neal

Well there's one retarded thing that survived the transition from GG.

[Meghan]

tals, I think you're thinking of Blizzard - they announced that WoW would only be available at first to people in North America with NA billing addresses. People in Korea are in too. Everyone else will have to wait a few months. Servers will be localized so that you can't play on the server of your choice but have to play on the one they assign you, closest to your home.

GW otoh suggests buying from the NA distributers but they don't have any prohibition against other countries participating. They're planning on having specific events in other countries - in order to participate you have to preorder.

Here's a FAQ with some updated entries regarding the World Preview Events. There's specific info in there for non-North Americans.

http://www.guildwars.com/preview/wpe-faq.html

re: WoW - Get Peacedog's attention. He's been racking up good mileage in the beta.

[Coskesh]

YK, having returned to EQ after 3 years for about 3 or 4 months, I absolutely love the changes they made. My only complaint was that there were no newbies in the newbie areas. So I guess I dont' mind them making it more casual friendly, I'll be damned if I spend another 6 hour session doing a raid.

I don't mind the shared xp penalty, the graphical problems she was talking about (I'm sure it will get tweaked eventually). The most disappointing part of her review was the combat, the skill wheel (or whatever the FFX combat thingy is called), and the lack of spell differentiation and shared recovery period for similar spells, and lack of the feeling of risk.

I don't doubt they'll address alot of the issues eventually, and I loved EQ out of the box, but I think this game will need a little time to get polished and tweaked.

I think what I really need is a chance at testing this thing out. I'll definitly get it eventually, but her post combined with the lack of open beta for me to try it sort of put this on the back burner for me.

[YellowKing]

The most disappointing part of her review was the combat, the skill wheel (or whatever the FFX combat thingy is called), and the lack of spell differentiation and shared recovery period for similar spells, and lack of the feeling of risk.

I'm really liking the skill wheel, though it's very limited at first. You sort of have to discover the starting chains for yourself. Solo you get to the point where you can pretty much complete the wheel with your eyes closed, so it doesn't add a whole lot of variety to combat. In groups, however, it can really shine. Our group of 4 is still trying to perfect it; I can't imagine what a full group of 6 with an even longer chain is going to be like. It doesn't really revolutionize MMORPG combat by any means, but I think it's a fun feature.

The lack of spell differentiation is a valid complaint, though like I pointed out it doesn't bother me much at the moment (especially since I'm playing a warrior.)

The lack of feeling of risk is only compared to EQ1, in my opinion. XP debt starts getting pretty steep as early as the low teens. Maybe some people get "used" to having their XP advancement slow to a crawl, but it's not something I enjoy. I REALLY don't like to die in this game, moreso than probably any game I've played since EQ1.

[knob]

I can't even begin to describe how much I disagree with you on the death penalty thing.


Back in the EQ days, it bugged me. But I accepted it and had nothing against it. DAoC's bugged me more because I seemed to die more. But I still didn't hate it.


Then I started to play MMOs where the penalty wasn't so steep. And I guess I "Saw the Light" Because god damn it, I don't need possibly lose my hard earned exp to get the feeling of tension in the game. Let alone because of someone elses fuck up. In EQ1, I was willing to accept an exp hit if I screwed up. But if someone else screwed up and got me killed, causing me to lose experience, I would be a little pissed off (Unless they were a friend. I'm strictly talking about pick up groups). And now EQ forces an exp hit on you when a group member screws up, even if they don't get you killed. That bugs me to no end. Even if the rest of the game suddenly became my cup of tea, the death penalty is a game killer for me.



I'm of the opinion that, for the most part, WoW has the death thing perfected. If you're just fooling around in an out door zone, it doesn't really hurt you at all. Just run back. A few minutes lost. No big deal. But it's still enough to make me pick my fights.

And when you hit an instanced dungeon, then the so called "Tension" kicks in. You screw up, you lose all of your work (Unless you just started and can get back before the respawn).

I don't know. My tastes have changed. From what I've heard, EQ2's level grind is horrible once you hit the mid to higher levels (20 - 30 on up). I don't want to be penalized if I screw up, especially if the grind is painful even without it.


Like I said, the whole game could be the most amazing thing ever, but I am completely unwilling to be penalized when I'm trying to enjoy myself in a game. (Of course, I'm willing to make exceptions, but something like a good old fashion kick-to-the-teeth death penalty isn't one I'm too willing to overlook).


Too many bad memories from EQ and DAoC, I guess.

[tals]

tals, I think you're thinking of Blizzard - they announced that WoW would only be available at first to people in North America with NA billing addresses. People in Korea are in too. Everyone else will have to wait a few months. Servers will be localized so that you can't play on the server of your choice but have to play on the one they assign you, closest to your home.

GW otoh suggests buying from the NA distributers but they don't have any prohibition against other countries participating. They're planning on having specific events in other countries - in order to participate you have to preorder.

Here's a FAQ with some updated entries regarding the World Preview Events. There's specific info in there for non-North Americans.

http://www.guildwars.com/preview/wpe-faq.html

re: WoW - Get Peacedog's attention. He's been racking up good mileage in the beta.

I am aware of the FAQ:(

There are a number of distributors in Europe. http://www.play.com and http:/www.dvd.co.uk who I think would fall over themselves to get the preorder deal. They already handle prordering by volume and although don't generally charge I don't think it would be a difficult thing for them to put in place - in fact its just a case of making the preordre package a buy linked to another preorder page.

However despite emailing the GW's team (not had a response) I heard nothing.

So that is why I came to the conclusion they don't really care about the Euros. If Peacedog can do anything to bring these two retaillers to the GW team's attention then that would be great!

Tals

[YellowKing]

Just a matter of personal preference I guess. I don't believe you can truly be rewarded without risk, and running back to a corpse with absolutely no penalty just doesn't feel like fun to me. I guess it's why I became bored with WoW so quickly - I never felt like I was in danger, I never felt like what I was doing was a challenge.

I think people are greatly exaggerating the group XP debt issue. If someone screws up and dies, THEY alone get the vast bulk of the XP debt. The group members take a much smaller hit, and even that is split amongst them. This debt takes no time to wipe out in a group (literally 5-10 minutes). People complain about griefers taking advantage of it, but I can't imagine what kind of idiotic group would continue to keep a member that kept dying intentionally.

So let's eliminate group debt sharing, and put it back to single. Now what happens? Each group member is responsible for their own death, they get whacked with 100% XP debt. Ok fine. But our mage has died 5 times, our healer has only died twice, and our tank hasn't died at all. Now we have a group made up of people earning XP at vastly different rates. Over the course of a few play sessions our tank is outleveling everyone, and our poor mage is lagging behind so bad he's never going to keep up.

I've played in several groups now, most of them pick-up groups, and the debt sharing simply hasn't been a problem. In fact, I was very glad it was there since when I died it took me about 1/6 of the time to erase my debt as it would have if there had been no debt sharing.

Remember - in a full group your fellow party members would have to die 6 TIMES to equal the debt penalty you'd get for dying once with no group shared XP debt.

[Hetz]

Woah....I had no idea that Everquest 2 pretty much did away with travel. Now you can just ring a bell and instantly travel anywhere??

OMG, that sucks. They took a ton of fun out of the game with that. Thanks for linking to that player review that explained it all. You just saved me $50!

No EQ2 for me now.

[YellowKing]

Hetz,

Just in case you missed my post in the other thread, I think this travel complaint the reviewer speaks about is just plain wrong.

It really goes against everything I've read straight from the developers regarding travel, and I would not be surprised if the insta-port stuff is largely a placeholder until they get all the boat rides and mounts in.

[Coskesh]

YK, about the skill chain wheel thing, I really liked it in FFXI. Her complaint of a healer having to cast see invis or create food sounded absurd. I'm assuming that will be fixed if true.

I have no problem with instant travel, but it should come at much higher lvls. I would imagine those bells are just there for beta.

[Discalced]

YK

I started a character on Beta 2. Hit level 7 last night. What's the name/level of your guy?

[YellowKing]

Her complaint of a healer having to cast see invis or create food sounded absurd. I'm assuming that will be fixed if true.

I think she's not thinking this through. For example:

My solo chain as a warrior is Kick --> Slash --> Taunt.

Now obviously casting a Taunt is "useless" since by the time I've landed a Kick and a Slash, the thing is probably pretty aggro against me. However, by casting that Taunt I complete the wheel and call down a lightning strike that does 20+ points of damage (more than 3 basic attacks worth of damage). So I don't see what the bitching is really about. If, by casting a "useless" spell you can pull off the equivalent of multiple bonus attacks, is it really that useless?

The other thing that she is overlooking is the fact that in order for a spell to be "counted" by the wheel, it MUST hit the target. If I Kick but miss with my Slash, the chain is broken. Spells like See Invis and Create Food DON'T MISS. So she'd rather trade it for an offensive spell that has a chance of missing and will ruin the entire chain? No thanks. Being able to cast Create Food is like being handed a freebie to complete your combat wheel!

The developers wanted there to be some strategy here. Do I forego the wheel's benefits and nuke the bastard, or do I take the time to cast this non-offensive spell to complete the wheel? There's a trade-off there. She's basically complaining about an important strategic element, after she just got through complaining about lack of strategy.

[YellowKing]

I started a character on Beta 2. Hit level 7 last night. What's the name/level of your guy?

Todash, Level 9 (should ding 10 pretty quickly tonight).

[Discalced]

I started a character on Beta 2. Hit level 7 last night. What's the name/level of your guy?

Todash, Level 9 (should ding 10 pretty quickly tonight).

Is the level difference between 7 and 10 too high to group with? My guy is Genesis, mage extraordinaire.

[Sponge]

If I decide to do some more MMORPG'ing it'll definitely be EQ2 for me. For many of the same reasons as YK, actually. The one thing that bothers me though is no PvP but that will probably change.

[FishPants]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, I was in EQ back when it first went gold and loved it. I haven't had a game that really pulled me in since then as much as EQ did. I eventually burned out on the grind and canned my account; but no regrets, I had fun.

What I read about EQ2 has me concerned but I will probably still give it a try. I hope they keep it PvE though (yeah that's right, I don't like PvP), I don't have enough time to spend in a video game only to be ganked by some 10 year old kid that /shouts "pwned!!1!11!"; hopefully they will stay away in WoW for now

[knob]

I think people are greatly exaggerating the group XP debt issue. If someone screws up and dies, THEY alone get the vast bulk of the XP debt. The group members take a much smaller hit, and even that is split amongst them. This debt takes no time to wipe out in a group (literally 5-10 minutes). People complain about griefers taking advantage of it, but I can't imagine what kind of idiotic group would continue to keep a member that kept dying intentionally.

In that case, it seems even worse to keep it in. It's just like WoW's resting system. I have no real problems with it, except for the fact that it's almost worthless to keep.

While I'd prefer WoW's system, I'd definitely take EQ's old system over EQ2's system. I don't care how small it is. Losing experience is bad enough, but losing it due to someone else being dumb is even worse.


I've said it before. When I play an MMO, I typically don't have much fun until I can hit the higher levels and participate in the end game. Sitting in a dungeon, kill mob after mob just flat out sucks. Even if you're with a great group of people. I don't want some XP penalty slowing me down if I screw up.

[Kraegor]

worthless to keep?
last time i logged on I got double exp for an hour. seems useful to me!

[Warfran]

In that case, it seems even worse to keep it in. It's just like WoW's resting system. I have no real problems with it, except for the fact that it's almost worthless to keep.

I am not sure what you mean by this also.

I haven't played any of the beta's so I can only go with what I read,and this resting aspect is a big draw for me amongst other things,because I am a more casual player time wise and can't log in as much as I would like,I could use any help I can get in comparsion to more hard core players.

Maybe I'm missing something here,I would like to know what the downside is to this feature.

Warfran

[RickinMich]

I've got to weigh in here and say that I agree with just about everything that Valael has said in comparing the two games. I've been in WoW's beta for about 3 months now and in EQ2's for about 2 months.

I have tried hard to like EQ2. It has a more pure RPG feel to it (in the traditional sense) and the graphics are gorgeous. It was pretty unplayable for me initially until I bumped my memory up to a gig, but now it's much better. (You really do need a pretty beefy setup to get a good feeling for the graphics. I'm sure that SOL is working hard at optimizing their code, but as of right now, you will lag to about 1 fps in the cities with anything less than a gig of memory). The opening tutorial is very well done.. and thankfully you are not forced to do it over again everytime you start a new character (not like CoH).

My biggest complaints with EQ2 are both personal preference things. First and foremost, the concept of "zoning". This is almost 2005, not 1998 (when I beta tested the original EQ). The act of traveling, even a very short distance from one part of a city to another should not involve a load screen of anywhere from 15 to 45 seconds everytime want to go to another 'zone'. It seems very accepted by EQ players and is part of the game, but frankly, it just ruins the immersiveness of the game for me. The only time you 'zone' in Wow is when you are taking a boat or zepplin between continents or are entering an instanced encounter, both of which happen with MUCH less frequency than the constant zoning that takes place in Norrath. Other than that, the only indication that you are in another 'zone' in WoW is a subtle change in environment (and sometimes not so subtle) and a different map when you access it. This adds so much to the continuity of the game and keeps you in the world at all times.

Second, the quest system. I think WoW's system is very well done. I'm not necessarily talking about the exclamation point/question mark tools over the quest giver's heads (which are indeed VERY helpful as you're trying to get and finish quests), but the completeness of the information given by the quest giver to the player so that the player has a clear idea of what needs to be accomplished and where it needs to be done. I think EQ2's system is sorely lacking from an informational standpoint. Oftentimes you are requested to do some FedEx quest, and told to find so-and-so in South Qeynos. That's all the info you get.. and sometimes, you're not even given the zone. These are some pretty good sized zones. It would be a LOT easier (and would make more sense to me) if they would at least tell you that so-and-so hangs out at some particular place in SQ. It becomes a ridiculous waste of time searching each building for your target and then.. you've got to figure out who to go back to. Again, just a personal preference, but this has had me, on a number of occasions say..'the hell with this'.. exit the game and boot up WoW.

Finally, I find it very hard to believe that the two games are going to come out at roughly the same time. I think that WoW is very close to being a finished product (hell, it'd probably be on the streets right now if it were being developed by anyone other than Blizzard). EQ2 on the other hand, is a LONG way from being a finished product. I think SOL is doing a good job of listening to beta feedback and is making good positive changes to the game, but if they were to release the game in its current state, it would catch an enormous amount of criticism. It has major stability issuses right now with even a limited number of people playing. It has a huge amount of playbalancing to be done and I think they're still making significant fundamental gameplay tweaks. I see EQ2 sometime in March through May, while I most definitely think that WoW will hit their November release date. Rick

[Uberstein]

Pretty sure 11/9 is EQ2's release date. For better or for worse...

Loving the game here, enjoying it more than my month or 2 in WoW. If I go with either, it'll be EQ2 for me.

[knob]

What I meant by it being worthless to keep in is that if you log off for 8 hours, you get one bubble of rested.

You can easily fill that single bubble up with in 15 minutes to a half hour. It's a nice feature, but it the effect is too small.


At most, you can get a level and a half of resting. But that takes around a week to aquire. And it goes away quick.

I don't think it's a bad feature, I also really don't think it should be removed. But it seems kind of pointless.

People bitched about it so much that they 'nerfed' it down to nothingness.

[RickinMich]

Uber.. I will be absolutely amazed if they release EQ2 on 11/9. 11/9/05 maybe, but not two weeks from now. If you've played it, I'm sure you'll agree with me that it isn't even close to being retail ready. If you're right, I think Sony will being doing a huge disservice to all its loyal EQ fans. Just my opinion. Rick

EDIT: I just saw the press release that says the EQ2 will ship the 8th. I hope it does well, though I truly do not believe that it's anywhere near ready.

[Bob]

I just saw the press release that says the EQ2 will ship the 8th. I hope it does well, though I truly do not believe that it's anywhere near ready.

Not that this is the case, I don't know, but it's very common for open beta testers to be playing a code base several revisions shy of what the paid testers have access to.

[Uberstein]

Rick--I agree, it isn't ready, at least the beta I'VE been playing isn't. If they have some secret patched codebase we aren't privy to, then great, but that seems a bit unlikely to me. Maybe they have better hardware ready to go in the live servers, I don't know.

However, I completely agree. From what I've seen the game is not ready, but as I said, for good or ill, it will be going live 11/9. I expect it to be quite laggy/buggy for a few months post release...

[knob]

The thing is, right before any game that really isn't ready for released is about to be released, a lot of people start to think that the company has a more advanced version of the game.

And I've never seen it work that way.

[YellowKing]

The developers have come right out and publicly said they're running a more advanced version of the game. In addition, the lag everyone is complaining about can be at least partly attributed to the fact that they've only been running two beta servers at max capacity. This isn't just a beta, it's a stress test.

That said, I've been in just about every major MMORPG beta since EQ1, and this beta definitely ranks up with the most stable and playable I've been in. WoW's was too, don't get me wrong, but then again WoW was missing entire core features, something I haven't seen in EQ2 (aside from the character customization stuff). The bugs I've run across so far are fairly minor. I'd really love to hear some examples of why the game is "not ready for release." (Not that I've ever heard any beta tester EVER think a game was ready for release.) I have heard performance complaints on low-end computers or computers with less than 1GB of RAM. My response to that is sorry, go play WoW if you can't afford to upgrade. The developers have designed EQ2 to be cutting edge and to still look good years from now. I really don't even understand that complaint fully - I've been running EQ2 on my laptop with 512MB of RAM and a rinky-dink 9200 video card. Granted I can't turn all the graphics options up, but it's still smooth and perfectly playable - even in cities. That's not to say I never experience any occasional slow-down, but I've never hit the 2-3fps some people are complaining about.

The quest thing is just going to come down to personal preference. My personal preference is that I don't like to be handheld through a game. I think it's one reason I got so bored with the quests in WoW. I never felt like I was completing quests on my own, rather I felt like I was following a walkthrough.

I also like the zone concept - in fact, it's a concept I have been hoping would make a comeback ever since EQ1. WoW being the sole exception, every zoneless MMORPG I've played has consisted of a drab, lifeless world - endless miles of empty terrain. Zones give the developers the flexibility to create a self-contained pocket - a zone can be brought down individually without affecting other players, it can be given its own art style and content without impacting neighboring zones, it can be tweaked independently of the other zones. Now WoW did a great job of making a varied and interesting world without zones. But no other MMORPG since EQ1 has been able to pull that off to my satisfaction.

[Bob]

The thing is, right before any game that really isn't ready for release is about to be released, a lot of people start to think that the company has a more advanced version of the game. And I've never seen it work that way.

As far as I know, this is exactly what happened with both Kohan II and WH: Dawn of War.

[RickinMich]

Bob.. You're wrong on Kohan II anyways. I was in the beta right up to release. I see absolutely no difference between the final beta I played and the release version. If there was some sort of uber version out there.. it didn't make it into the release copy I play. Rick

[Beer Goggles]

Neither. I will never again pay a monthly fee for an online game.