Steam Dangerous For Publishers

All discussions regarding Board, Card, and RPG Gaming, including industry discussion, that don't belong in one of the other gaming forums.

Moderators: The Preacher, $iljanus, Zaxxon

User avatar
Blackhawk
Posts: 43496
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:48 pm
Location: Southwest Indiana

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Blackhawk »

edosan wrote:
Greybriar wrote:In a recent interview, Paradox's CEO expressed concern that many publishers "see a big problem with Steam not being independent" from Valve.
I can only assume that he would say that GamersGate is lots lots better and everyone should use that.
It's like the pot calling the kettle #000000!
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
User avatar
Freezer-TPF-
Posts: 12698
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:41 pm
Location: VA

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Freezer-TPF- »

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Freezer-TPF- wrote:Steam was pretty crappy when it first came out, and the hate was justified. It is much better now.
Why was it crappy? I only remember the fervor, not the reason. I personally have not ever had a problem with it, but I do remember some upset gamers.
From what I can recall, it was extremely slow to start up and had frequent problems connecting to the Steam servers. Games often updated automatically even when you set them not to do so (I think this still happens sometimes, actually), so you sometimes had to wait for an update to complete before you played your game. Prices on Steam were higher than retail, and there were only a few handfuls of games available. Many people hated having another app running in the background while they were gaming. It added no value for gamers, other than playing the few Steam/Valve games without a CD in the drive. In short, it was pretty much all cost, no benefit.

Now, things have flipped decidedly in the other direction, and a few more DD providers have sprung up to compete for gamers' dollars. Steam now also provides some very useful community features for multiplayer gaming, albeit driven primarily by TF2 and L4D. Valve deserves a lot of credit for what they have accomplished so far.

Maybe they take an unreasonable chunk of change from other devs/pubs, I have no idea. But those folks are not forced to use Steam as a download distributor--in fact, you could argue that because of Steam, those folks have more options for downloadable distribution than ever before, and people are more comfortable with using DD for games than ever before.
When the sun goes out, we'll have eight minutes to live.
User avatar
Defiant
Posts: 21045
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: Tongue in cheek

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Defiant »

Nade wrote:
Zurai wrote:
I'm not familiar with Impulse, but GamersGate is just a download client. You can burn the files you download to a CD/DVD and play them forever more.
I don't believe that's right. For most games this is probably true, but IIRC, for at least one game I tried moving from one computer (with internet connection) to another (without) it failed to run.
Huh. I just noticed that Gamersgate has started listing what kind of DRM that games use on their game pages (some of which don't use any).
User avatar
razgon
Posts: 2753
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:15 am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by razgon »

Freezer-TPF- wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Freezer-TPF- wrote:Steam was pretty crappy when it first came out, and the hate was justified. It is much better now.
Why was it crappy? I only remember the fervor, not the reason. I personally have not ever had a problem with it, but I do remember some upset gamers.
From what I can recall, it was extremely slow to start up and had frequent problems connecting to the Steam servers. Games often updated automatically even when you set them not to do so (I think this still happens sometimes, actually), so you sometimes had to wait for an update to complete before you played your game. Prices on Steam were higher than retail, and there were only a few handfuls of games available. Many people hated having another app running in the background while they were gaming. It added no value for gamers, other than playing the few Steam/Valve games without a CD in the drive. In short, it was pretty much all cost, no benefit.

Now, things have flipped decidedly in the other direction, and a few more DD providers have sprung up to compete for gamers' dollars. Steam now also provides some very useful community features for multiplayer gaming, albeit driven primarily by TF2 and L4D. Valve deserves a lot of credit for what they have accomplished so far.

Maybe they take an unreasonable chunk of change from other devs/pubs, I have no idea. But those folks are not forced to use Steam as a download distributor--in fact, you could argue that because of Steam, those folks have more options for downloadable distribution than ever before, and people are more comfortable with using DD for games than ever before.

True all of the above - it was messy when it started...I remember I was on dialup, and having to have Steam do its thing before I could play a game was...frustrating to say the least, it ate resources as well and god help us all if there was an update it had to download first...
Gone...
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Smoove_B »

Looks like Gamestop is about to reveal their own digital download service now. I suppose all we need is Wal-Mart and then we can finally get better pricing on STEAM once the B&M stores can't complain about how they're losing sales.

I know, I'm dreaming.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
theohall
Posts: 11697
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:01 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by theohall »

Smoove_B wrote:Looks like Gamestop is about to reveal their own digital download service now. I suppose all we need is Wal-Mart and then we can finally get better pricing on STEAM once the B&M stores can't complain about how they're losing sales.

I know, I'm dreaming.
Better pricing on Steam?? They have ridiculous deals seemingly every weekend and sometimes mid-week.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Smoove_B »

I'm talking about release-day pricing and beyond. STEAM will usually knock $5 off new titles for pre-orders but after they release they don't seem to match the sales B&M stores offer. The one that comes to mind immediately is for the original Call of Duty Modern Warfare. That damn thing was full price long after B&M stores would have it on sale for $25. It seemed like it was artificially being held that high and was one case where buying a digital copy didn't make sense. It's one of the few new(er) games I own because of it.

I think overall the STEAM sales have increased because of services like Impulse and Gamers Gate.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by GreenGoo »

Steam has some really amazing prices for older titles, which is where my eye is looking these days, but I agree with Smoove, new releases don't seem to change pricing for quite awhile. I'm sure there are exceptions but this seems the rule.
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by LordMortis »

I find Steam have ridiculously good sale prices. But in general, not specifically with Steam, I find online pricing to be more expensive than B&M pricing, probably because they don't have to care so much about moving product. Their overhead is the same. As an old fogey who prefers to have physical media, this doesn't bother me so much. What steam and other sites do is allow you to do is 1) buy on impulse and B) buy something when you can't find it anywhere else, either due to shortage or being aged beyond any B&M usefulness.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19980
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Carpet_pissr »

I would suggest adding 3) (C?):
Playing an assortment of games instantly without having to find the CD/DVD.

Great for us ADD types who play 5 levels and switch to another game/genre. :)
Jeff V
Posts: 36414
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: Nowhere you want to be.

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Jeff V »

LordMortis wrote:I find Steam have ridiculously good sale prices. But in general, not specifically with Steam, I find online pricing to be more expensive than B&M pricing, probably because they don't have to care so much about moving product. Their overhead is the same. As an old fogey who prefers to have physical media, this doesn't bother me so much. What steam and other sites do is allow you to do is 1) buy on impulse and B) buy something when you can't find it anywhere else, either due to shortage or being aged beyond any B&M usefulness.
This was the attraction of the business model. Many gamers, however, think rapidly-plummeting prices are their god-given right, the way things are "supposed to work," rather than beneficial (to them) of collateral damage cause by the way the conventional supply chain works. When there is no physical stock costing money to tend, there is no incentive to devalue the product. This is important in some genres were games don't have a half-life measured in days or weeks, like wargames, which can still be viable products years later.

The bigger digital download places -- Steam, Impulse, etc. carry a lot of product that still exists in B&M stores, and they have to compete on that battlefield of diminishing returns. I think if physical product went away, you might see lower average prices, but fewer dramatic sales. There would be less guess-work involved in finding the sweet spot to keep revenues rolling in. Eventually, a title will reach a point of market saturation, whereby only ridiculously low prices might entice someone who has not otherwise been interested in the game, and this is when you'd see it pop up at places like GOG. I think, though, that once the market has been pretty much wrung dry, you'll see prices level off at a moderate level...say, $20 for an initially $40 game. At this point, a download service need only make enough money cover the cost of maintaining the title on their servers (and if perpetual availability is their promise, they have to keep it available).

I still think this is ultimately an intermediate step to what will someday become an all-encompassing gaming service not unlike cable TV. You pay a flat rate every month, and you have access to all the content you can handle. Pricing would be slightly to moderately higher than the average gamer spends today (to protect overall revenues, of course); it would be a boon to those who typically buy more than they can possibly play anyway, and a burden on those casual players who currently don't spend all that much.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Greybriar
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Greybriar »

Jeff V wrote:....I still think this is ultimately an intermediate step to what will someday become an all-encompassing gaming service not unlike cable TV. You pay a flat rate every month, and you have access to all the content you can handle. Pricing would be slightly to moderately higher than the average gamer spends today (to protect overall revenues, of course); it would be a boon to those who typically buy more than they can possibly play anyway, and a burden on those casual players who currently don't spend all that much.
And, of course, those poor souls who don't have an internet connection are just S.O.L.
The education of a man is never completed until he dies. --Robert E. Lee
User avatar
tjg_marantz
Posts: 14688
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Queen City, SK

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by tjg_marantz »

Greybriar wrote:
Jeff V wrote:....I still think this is ultimately an intermediate step to what will someday become an all-encompassing gaming service not unlike cable TV. You pay a flat rate every month, and you have access to all the content you can handle. Pricing would be slightly to moderately higher than the average gamer spends today (to protect overall revenues, of course); it would be a boon to those who typically buy more than they can possibly play anyway, and a burden on those casual players who currently don't spend all that much.
And, of course, those poor souls who don't have an internet connection are just S.O.L.
Fuck 'em. If they can't afford something good enough, they probably shouldn't be spending money on steam games anyways.
Home of the Akimbo AWPs
User avatar
qp
Posts: 4103
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Port Hope, ON
Contact:

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by qp »

tjg_marantz wrote:
Greybriar wrote:
Jeff V wrote:....I still think this is ultimately an intermediate step to what will someday become an all-encompassing gaming service not unlike cable TV. You pay a flat rate every month, and you have access to all the content you can handle. Pricing would be slightly to moderately higher than the average gamer spends today (to protect overall revenues, of course); it would be a boon to those who typically buy more than they can possibly play anyway, and a burden on those casual players who currently don't spend all that much.
And, of course, those poor souls who don't have an internet connection are just S.O.L.
Fuck 'em. If they can't afford something good enough, they probably shouldn't be spending money on steam games anyways.
So if they can't afford $20K to pull fibre or whatever to some rural area, then they shouldn't be buying games?

:shock:
Game developer in Port Hope, Ontario
Five Archers Corporation
@FiveArchers on Twitter!
User avatar
The Preacher
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13037
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:57 am

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by The Preacher »

qp wrote:
tjg_marantz wrote:
Greybriar wrote:
Jeff V wrote:....I still think this is ultimately an intermediate step to what will someday become an all-encompassing gaming service not unlike cable TV. You pay a flat rate every month, and you have access to all the content you can handle. Pricing would be slightly to moderately higher than the average gamer spends today (to protect overall revenues, of course); it would be a boon to those who typically buy more than they can possibly play anyway, and a burden on those casual players who currently don't spend all that much.
And, of course, those poor souls who don't have an internet connection are just S.O.L.
Fuck 'em. If they can't afford something good enough, they probably shouldn't be spending money on steam games anyways.
So if they can't afford $20K to pull fibre or whatever to some rural area, then they shouldn't be buying games?

:shock:
Consoles for the hicks!
You do not take from this universe. It grants you what it will.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

Even in my home town in Bum-Fuck-Nowhere, Newfoundland there's cable and DSL now. Is having high speed Internet really hard to assume nowadays?
User avatar
silverjon
Posts: 10781
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:16 pm
Location: Western Canuckistan

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by silverjon »

IceBear wrote:Even in my home town in Bum-Fuck-Nowhere, Newfoundland there's cable and DSL now. Is having high speed Internet really hard to assume nowadays?
In more remote areas (you did still say it's a town), where the individual would effectively be assuming all of the infrastructure costs themselves, anything beyond dial-up remains prohibitively expensive.
wot?

To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?

Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

silverjon wrote:
IceBear wrote:Even in my home town in Bum-Fuck-Nowhere, Newfoundland there's cable and DSL now. Is having high speed Internet really hard to assume nowadays?
In more remote areas (you did still say it's a town), where the individual would effectively be assuming all of the infrastructure costs themselves, anything beyond dial-up remains prohibitively expensive.
Well, I just always say "home town", but I guess 250 people is a town. I guess, in my mind, the vast majority of the world has access to high speed so having businesses hold themselves back doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I know it's a touchy subject, but it is the 21st century.
User avatar
Greybriar
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:40 am
Location: United States

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Greybriar »

silverjon wrote:
IceBear wrote:Even in my home town in Bum-Fuck-Nowhere, Newfoundland there's cable and DSL now. Is having high speed Internet really hard to assume nowadays?
In more remote areas (you did still say it's a town), where the individual would effectively be assuming all of the infrastructure costs themselves, anything beyond dial-up remains prohibitively expensive.
My sister lives 25 miles from a medium sized city and the only internet connection available to her is dial-up.
The education of a man is never completed until he dies. --Robert E. Lee
User avatar
qp
Posts: 4103
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:48 am
Location: Port Hope, ON
Contact:

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by qp »

I'm about to move and will go from DSL (6Mbps/250GB cap unlimited available if I needed it) to a WISP (4Mbps/40GB cap - which is the highest tier they offer, may end up with 30GB Cap). So my carefree steam days are, well not over, but going to be constrained somewhat. Also going to have to watch the AppleTV stuff too. So internet can still be an issue, especially in the backwater (telecom-wise) called Canada. I am literally 3 minutes north of a fair sized town (20K-ish I think). The federal government says there's supposed to be money for high speed infrastructure...but there you have it. It's really about population density.

So the updates should be fine, but man, an 8 GB online game purchase, that's going to require some thought!
Game developer in Port Hope, Ontario
Five Archers Corporation
@FiveArchers on Twitter!
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by LordMortis »

IceBear wrote:
silverjon wrote:
IceBear wrote:Even in my home town in Bum-Fuck-Nowhere, Newfoundland there's cable and DSL now. Is having high speed Internet really hard to assume nowadays?
In more remote areas (you did still say it's a town), where the individual would effectively be assuming all of the infrastructure costs themselves, anything beyond dial-up remains prohibitively expensive.
Well, I just always say "home town", but I guess 250 people is a town. I guess, in my mind, the vast majority of the world has access to high speed so having businesses hold themselves back doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I know it's a touchy subject, but it is the 21st century.
I was one of the first people in the country to have a full duplex cable modem back in 95 or 96. My parents house in the middle of suburbia (though they live not in a subdivision) was less than five miles away and their area is still stuck on dial up. They have another property on the edge of Ann Arbor. They are stuck on dial up. They have another property in Moscow (Michigan) which is on dial up. DSL may or may not become an option for any of those three properties. DSL is pretty much an X factor for most people around here. Do they put a PoP within the prescribed yardage or not? They will always tell you DSL is available in your area and then make you wait 3 to 6 weeks to find out if it is or not. The answer is usually not unless you live near a business district of some sort that requires PoP to support some sort of digital line structure.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

Like I said, my parents have DSL and they live in a fishing village of 250 in the northern reaches of Newfoundland with no businesses at all (especially with the death of the cod fishery). I guess I had higher expectations of high speed availabilty based on my parents' situation, so thanks for level setting me
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70101
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by LordMortis »

IceBear wrote:Like I said, my parents have DSL and they live in a fishing village of 250 in the northern reaches of Newfoundland with no businesses at all (especially with the death of the cod fishery). I guess I had higher expectations of high speed availabilty based on my parents' situation, so thanks for level setting me
DSL is fickle. Essentially it's everywhere... As long as you happen to be near a Point of Presence station. An idea of how far away you can be:

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/4676" target="_blank
less than 5000 You will have little trouble getting all speeds of DSL
5000-10600 You may have trouble getting the highest speeds on offer
10600-15000 The danger zone for DSL from national CLECs like Covad and NorthPoint. Speeds on offer are pinned back steadily until they reach 192k for 15,000 feet. If your line is longer than around 15000 feet, they may not accept an order.
15000-18000 In this range, Telco ADSL is normally still available, although it may be restricted to 300-500k speeds
18000-22000 Telco ADSL is not available, although in a few areas, RADSL may be a product you can get. RADSL is speed-variable.
Some smaller DSL specialist CLECs may have solutions for you.
22000-28000 Using less commonly used DSL equipment, it is still possible to use lines of this length.
18000-28000 IDSL is an alternative or possibly the only alternative. IDSL is 144k/sec, about four-six times modem speed.
28000-38000 IDSL is the only alternative
The important thing to take away is that under most circumstances you are talking ADSL with guarantees of quality. You get to be about two miles or 3 1/2 kilometers from the PoP station that is from you local carrier to your house tops. This usually isn't a problem if you are in business district but is the further and further you move from one.

I do wonder about satellite though. I really have no background in how well satellite connections to the Internet work. I know they were garbage in 2003 when I experimented with satellite Internet for my phone. But now 3g appears to be everywhere and 4g infrastructure is being built. And the there is the whole real satellite thing.
grumpy
Posts: 755
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:27 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by grumpy »

LordMortis wrote: I do wonder about satellite though. I really have no background in how well satellite connections to the Internet work. I know they were garbage in 2003 when I experimented with satellite Internet for my phone. But now 3g appears to be everywhere and 4g infrastructure is being built. And the there is the whole real satellite thing.
The problem with satellite is that the speed of light isn't getting any faster - a round trip to geosynchronous orbit takes 280 ms. By comparison, the ITU recommendation for round-trip latency in voice phone calls is 150 ms; more than that and people are readily talking over one another.

Alternately, you can dump traffic you source on a terrestrial network, but usually you're looking at satellite because your terrestrial options suck.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

Shows how tech-unsavvy I am - I was thinking DSL/ADSL were the same thing. ADSL is what my parents had. I suspect 3g networks are going to be harder to come by in rural Canada than in the US
User avatar
Little Raven
Posts: 8608
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:26 am
Location: Austin, TX

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Little Raven »

grumpy wrote:The problem with satellite is that the speed of light isn't getting any faster - a round trip to geosynchronous orbit takes 280 ms. By comparison, the ITU recommendation for round-trip latency in voice phone calls is 150 ms; more than that and people are readily talking over one another.
But this isn't really an issue when it comes to downloading stuff...there's significant latency, but your bandwidth is fine. You'll never get a good game of TF2 going, but you could download a game without problems.
/. "She climbed backwards out her
\/ window into Outside Over There."
Murn
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:15 am

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Murn »

A slight derail and I'm sorry for that...

I was extremely put off when I purchased the newest Empire at War expansion and I've held my fingers from it because of the same reasons being mentioned in this thread: Secondary client running in the background while playing that I can't control, no access to my beloved save games and all that sh*te that i really detest with Steam.

I can see Newcastle and grumpy had some comments about this subject and mentioned that there may or may not be a solution to this. So what is it? Can I get DL the whole Game package and sever the connection to the steeenking Steam Client or am I stuck in Limbo?!?

Again sorry for the slight derail, but any answers are truly appreciated.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

Yes, you can. Give me a moment to find the exact details
Offline Mode
Question
What is Steam's Offline Mode and how do I use it?

Answer
Important:
The Steam client application's files must be updated to allow for the use of Offline Mode. If your game's status is "100% - Ready" but you receive the message "This game cannot be started in Offline Mode" when attempting to play offline, the Steam client application's files need to be updated.

Firewall settings preventing Steam from updating itself are the most common cause for this problem. Please see the Troubleshooting Network Connectivity topic for instructions to configure your network so Steam may update if you encounter any difficulties with Offline Mode.

What is Offline Mode?
Offline Mode allows you to play games through Steam without reconnecting to the Steam Network every time you wish to play - this is particularly useful if you do not plan on playing over the internet and would prefer not to download new updates for your single-player games.

Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine.



Using Offline Mode
Please follow the instructions below to configure Offline Mode on your machine:

Start Steam online - make sure the Remember my password box on the login window is checked
Verify that all game files are completely updated - you can see the update status for a game under the My Games tab (when the game shows as 100% - Ready it is ready to be played in Offline Mode)
Launch the game you would like to play offline to verify that there are no further updates to download - shut down the game and return to Steam once you have confirmed that the game can be played
Go to Settings to ensure the Do not store account information on this computer option is not selected
From the main Steam window, go to File and select Go Offline
Click OK to restart Steam in Offline Mode
Edit: As a test, I just put myself in Offline Mode and unplugged my cable from the Internet and fired up Dragon Age without an issue. I, personally, don't even notice the Steam client footprint so I don't mind Online mode. The important thing is, you have to be online at least once before you can play the game offline
Murn
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:15 am

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Murn »

Thanks sooo much IB :)

I'll certainly test it tonight.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19980
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Out of curiosity, why, exactly do you detest the fact that there is a secondary client running in the background? If you are playing even relatively recent games that are available on Steam, system resources should not be an issue for your hardware, no?
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by GreenGoo »

Carpet_pissr wrote:Out of curiosity, why, exactly do you detest the fact that there is a secondary client running in the background? If you are playing even relatively recent games that are available on Steam, system resources should not be an issue for your hardware, no?
Probably because he choose to play a game, not play a game with a secondary program running as well. It's not rocket science. It's bizarre to me that he should need to justify his not wanting to run stuff, rather than the other way around.

From what I just read above (admittedly I skimmed it) the steam client is running whether the game is being played in online or offline mode.

In that case it's working as DRM and nothing else presumably, unlike in online mode where it acts as DRM and a matching service and a chat program and an online store (probably a couple of other features I'm forgetting/overlooking).
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

I guess I'm just not paranoid like everyone else. If it's not affecting my game's performance, I honestly don't care that it's running. There's always going to be some sort of copy protection and until Stardock produces all the games and there isn't CP anymore, I don't mind Steam's DRM.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by GreenGoo »

IceBear wrote:I guess I'm just not paranoid like everyone else.
Don't be a douche.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

What can I say, I am one.
User avatar
Carpet_pissr
Posts: 19980
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:32 pm
Location: Columbia, SC

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by Carpet_pissr »

GreenGoo wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:Out of curiosity, why, exactly do you detest the fact that there is a secondary client running in the background? If you are playing even relatively recent games that are available on Steam, system resources should not be an issue for your hardware, no?
Probably because he choose to play a game, not play a game with a secondary program running as well. It's not rocket science. It's bizarre to me that he should need to justify his not wanting to run stuff, rather than the other way around.

From what I just read above (admittedly I skimmed it) the steam client is running whether the game is being played in online or offline mode.

In that case it's working as DRM and nothing else presumably, unlike in online mode where it acts as DRM and a matching service and a chat program and an online store (probably a couple of other features I'm forgetting/overlooking).
He doesn't need to justify anything, and I'm pretty sure he is capable of answering himself if he wants to. I was simply asking (and politely I might add) out of sheer curiosity, wondering if there might be some other reason (that I might should be concerned about as well). I run the Steam client, maybe blissfully ignorantly, almost every time I game. To date I have not noticed any adverse issues, but then again, HAVE NOT NOTICED is the operative phrase there.

No need to get snippy, sheesh.
User avatar
The Meal
Posts: 27987
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:33 pm
Location: 2005 Stanley Cup Champion

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by The Meal »

IceBear wrote:What can I say, I am one.
Maybe, but you certainly weren't in this thread.
"Better to talk to people than communicate via tweet." — Elontra
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by GreenGoo »

The Meal wrote:
IceBear wrote:What can I say, I am one.
Maybe, but you certainly weren't in this thread.
What can I say, I'm paranoid. I'm not sure about you Meal, but I consider someone saying that people who have a different viewpoint as having a mental illness as pretty douchy.

Just because we all like Icebear and he was passive aggressive rather than direct, doesn't change the fact that it was a douche thing to say. I'm pretty confident he didn't even realize he was insulting people, which makes it worse in my opinion, rather than more forgivable.

Anyway, we've done the steam dance and the DRM dance and the "why don't you want random things running on your machine" dance about a zillion times here.

I accidentally jumped in because people seem to be so far gone in expecting random stuff to be running on their machines that it has become the norm, rather than the exception. I see a question such as "why don't you want stuff running on your machine, you should have the horsepower to run it" and it boggles my mind.

Similarly, I was at a hardware store today and saw a sign that said "<this hardware store> reserves the right to check any bags to ensure correct pricing and quality of service" and I laughed out loud.

What right are they reserving? They have no right to do that, so they can neither reserve it nor relinquish it. It's a complete snowjob and farce. In a similar way to the above, we hear "if you have nothing to hide, why do you care?" and "I'm not paranoid like most people, I'm perfectly fine with corporations treating me like a criminal 5 seconds after selling me a product and taking my money".

I accidentally commented out of pure exasperation. If I could go back and stop myself I would, because I just don't have the energy or willpower or even interest to do this yet again.

Icebear, try not to lead with "I'm not mentally ill like most people" and I'll try not to call you on it in the future.
User avatar
GreenGoo
Posts: 42239
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by GreenGoo »

Carpet_pissr wrote:No need to get snippy, sheesh.
Sorry, this topic is a pet peeve of mine and has been discussed here many times. It has nothing to do with the negative or positive effects of the application in question. It has to do with the requirements for the application to be running at all when it is the game itself that the user wants to play. My pet peeve at this point is not that people accept it but that it appears to be the norm, like it is supposed to be there and why shouldn't it be.

You yourself ask why it concerns him. Icebear states that people who are concerned about it are paranoid. It has become the norm. He asks a very reasonable question of "why is it there?" and gets in response "why not?" or "why are you asking?" or "you're mentally ill for asking" as if it should just be accepted without question. This is the reason for snip and for why I bothered to post at all.

As for this specific example, I am running steam right now as I play Torchlight. While I don't like having to have Steam running to play a game I bought, I understand mostly the need for DRM, and Steam has made accepting DRM much easier by providing additional services and convenience to the customer. I accept the need for Steam to run if I want to buy games and play games from Steam. If things become even more intrusive and less benign in the future (which given standard corporate practice in all fields, is not a paranoid thought) I will re-evaluate.

It's not you, it's the general acceptance without question and sometimes without understanding that I have a bugaboo about.
User avatar
The Preacher
Forum Moderator
Posts: 13037
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:57 am

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by The Preacher »

GreenGoo wrote:Icebear, try not to lead with "I'm not mentally ill like most people" and I'll try not to call you on it in the future.
I'd say your interpretation of his tone and meaning is completely out of whack.
You do not take from this universe. It grants you what it will.
User avatar
IceBear
Posts: 12519
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: Steam Dangerous For Publishers

Post by IceBear »

For what it's worth, I probably use that expression too casually in my speech and I apologize if I offended. Maybe I'm too trusting. Maybe other people are not trusting enough and jump through hoops because of it. Whatever, I'm still a world class douche.

On topic, it's not that I accept what Steam is doing "without question" but I've been using it long enough and it hasn't impacted my system's performance so it doesn't bother me that it's running in the background. Sure, when it first came out I used it but I was watching it as much as I could, but that was years ago now. If Valve changes something that would impact my privacy in areas I care about then I would have issue, but right now it doesn't bother me. I helped the original poster disable Steam as much as possible. All my subsequent posts were meant to convey (and it was douchey how I did that) was that *I* don't consider Steam running in the background a *bad* thing, but then the original poster sounded like he was having performance issues and if that's the case, Offline mode is the way to go.
Post Reply