[Miniatures] - Getting Started

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Smoove_B
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[Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

So it's official -- I've lost my mind. Inspired by what we saw at a gaming convention last weekend, my buddy and I have decided to dip our toes in the wonderful crazy world of miniature gaming. Now, we haven't completely lost it as there's no way we're going to play Warhammer or paint our own figures, but I think I'm finally ready to take the plunge into something a bit more meaty than HeroScape.

To that end, we were surprised to discover that at one point Heroclix made Mechwarrior figures. It would seem that the rules are a bit cumbersome, but a helpful fan over on BGG made his own set of streamlined rules ("Call to Honor") that he still supports. While we can print out free maps and scenarios online, we were thinking this might be a fun experiment to try and create our own miniature table with 3D buildings, trees, landscapes, etc...

We're not super crazy serious, but we're going to give it an honest college try (which I think means we'll drink beer and eat pizza while working). He actually purchased the 25th anniversary edition of the board game and I still have my original copy from the 1980s...but the hex maps they include are too small for the Heroclix figures. So we figured, what the hell? Let's just make our own damn board.

Any tips from seasoned miniature hobby vets? There's some real helpful videos on Youtube, but I'd like to hear from locals if there's any advice to offer.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by hepcat »

Seppe and the owners of our local FLGS have been tempting me with WarMachine lately. While not as bad as stuff from Games Workshop when it comes price, it's still a step in a direction I'm not willing to take yet.

If you're looking for some nice, cheaper alternatives to miniatures that exist as hybrids of a sort, check out Earth Reborn. Or perhaps Incursion.

I picked up a couple of miniature game rulebooks a while back, although my interest is decidedly weird war in nature. Secrets of the Third Reich and AE-WWII were the ones I bought, picked up a few figures and then promptly put on the shelf when I realized I would actually need to do some work before playing. :(
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IceBear
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by IceBear »

I still try playing the old "classic" battletech

http://bg.battletech.com/" target="_blank

http://www.exodus-road.com/xcart/home.php?cat=321" target="_blank
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

Oddly enough my buddy found some gigantic custom mats that he'd have to import from Europe so we can play Wings of Glory with an appropriate landscape. From there, it only seemed like a natural step to then consider actually making miniature landscapes and then moving around on them with giant robots.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

IceBear wrote:I still try playing the old "classic" battletech

http://bg.battletech.com/" target="_blank

http://www.exodus-road.com/xcart/home.php?cat=321" target="_blank
Oh yeah, my bad. I have the original Battletech box set from the 1980s (1985?) and my buddy just picked up the 25th anniversary set.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote:Oddly enough my buddy found some gigantic custom mats that he'd have to import from Europe so we can play Wings of Glory with an appropriate landscape. From there, it only seemed like a natural step to then consider actually making miniature landscapes and then moving around on them with giant robots.
Tommy20 in 3...2...

Wings of Glory is fantastic gamers party game. Tommy and Henzau close out most Octocons with a dozen players each flying their own plane in a massive fight and it's always a lot of fun. (I sat out the last one and I can't remember why. :? )

I've been wanting to (re) pick up Advance Space Crusade and possibly make some Space Hulk environments but the expense keeps turning me off well before I decide to not invest the time.
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Debris
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Debris »

Battletech is fun, but not really a 'miniature game.' It's more of a board game with miniatures. Don't get me wrong, it's fun and I've been playing it since it came out, but it is rather limited as far as miniature games go. Heroscape terrain works really well with Battletech as they both use hex maps. I think what you're talking about is called Mechwarrior Dark Ages, right? Those have much larger mechs, tanks and infantry than the original battletech. I'm not sure if the heroscape terrain will work, but give it a try. I know you have a lot of it. ;)
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

Well the rule variant we're thinking of using doesn't use hex spaces at all for game play -- everything is done with rulers. That's also why we're considering building an actual game map -- since we can scale everything (trees, rocks, buildings, etc...) appropriately.

It's called "Mechwarrior - Call to Honor" and it uses the Heroclix Mechwarrior figures (both in size and stats). EDIT: Yes, they use the "Dark Ages" rules, but this variant we found streamlines them.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Debris »

First, figure out the size of the table that you want 4x4, 6x4 or 8x4 are common sizes. From there you can decide whether you want your table to be collapsible or not. It all depends on how much space you have available to you. You have a huge array of options as to the materials you want to make the board. From a simple 8x4 3/4" plywood on saw horses to a dedicated permanent standing table with interchangeable board surfaces.

One thing I probably wouldn't do is make your terrain (houses, hills, roads, etc.) permanent. Part of the fun of any miniature game is to be able to change the terrain based upon scenario or even random chance. So, IMO, you would want to make a generic board painted either green or brown. You could even add flocking or sand to the board if you want to give it texture, but I prefer to have a nice flat board myself.

Someone here even made a fold up board using two 24x82 doors they got from their local hardware store. It is hinged in the middle with a piano hinge for easy storage. This is handy as you can just put it on top of a table you already have to help keep the costs down, plus it's a lot easier to store. i actually plan on making one of these since I had to give up my big table years ago.

For making terrain, the best thing I've found is actually pink (or blue) insulating foam. Not the roll out kind, but the kind that comes in sheets and looks like styrofoam. This is a high density foam board that is easy to cut with a razor blade, is lightweight and is relatively cheap. You can use this to make hills, buildings, rock formations...heck, just about anything. I usually cover anything I make with it with spackle to give it a little weight and to protect it a bit. One thing, do not use spray paint on it as it will melt. It's also easy to glue together using elmer's white glue so you can stak it up as high or as wide as you need it and then cut it to shape, sand it and you're ready to go. DO NOT settle for regular white styrofoam. It will not work.

For trees you can usually find decent sized trees at Michael's or Hobby Lobby. You can usually get a bag full for pretty cheap.

A cheap route for buildings is just to find plans online for paper buildings. Print them out and then fold them into shape. Cheap and easy. If you want REALLY cheap, go to a fabric store and buy a few yards of green felt. Put it on a table and put books underneath to make hills. It's pretty crude, but it can be effective.

I used to have a bunch of Battletech links on one of my old computers. I'll see what i can dig up and send them your way. You might find some useful modeling information.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

Awesome -- thanks for the tips. I was looking at what Blackhawk did and I was thinking we might try a smaller scale first -- maybe foot square boards that can be linked together. Though creating one large board that can be modified in numerous ways also sounds interesting.

If you can't hit the insulation with spray paint, what do you use?
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Blackhawk »

Smoove_B wrote:Awesome -- thanks for the tips. I was looking at what Blackhawk did and I was thinking we might try a smaller scale first -- maybe foot square boards that can be linked together. Though creating one large board that can be modified in numerous ways also sounds interesting.

If you can't hit the insulation with spray paint, what do you use?
I usually buy the .99 cent bottles of acrylic from the Wal-Mart craft section for it.

The insulation foam (it is not styrofoam insulation, it is denser and, as mentioned, either blue or pink) makes great modular boards. Many people use them in two foot squares - 2x2 for a 4'x4' table, 3x2 for a 6'x4' and so on. Get a piece a few inches thick. Cut it to the right size, then carve your rivers, roads, and so forth right into it. Add a layer and shape it for hills. Most people, though, choose to either place it on a solid table or into a frame to keep it from moving around. Do an image search for 'modular gaming board' and you'll find many examples.


On early terrain making: Start by buying a book of mixed color construction paper and/or some colored felt squares. You can cut shapes for forests, buildings, rivers, roads, whatever. It will get you playing. Then, start replacing the pieces you most use with actual terrain a little bit at a time. It is very, very easy to get stuck on the terrain and never actually play the games.

For the aforementioned paper terrain, check out WorldWorks. Their stuff is absolutely amazing. Just make sure you have a way to store it, as it gets crushed easily.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

Does anyone have any experience with a product known as "Fusion Fiber"?
Blackhawk wrote:For the aforementioned paper terrain, check out WorldWorks. Their stuff is absolutely amazing. Just make sure you have a way to store it, as it gets crushed easily.
Thanks -- and I'll consider that construction paper tip as well. We're in the discussion phase right now and just sort of getting a handle on what our options are. Quite frankly just getting a giant piece of felt on an appropriately sized table at this point is probably our first step. We've been real good about meeting once a month for board and card games, but we're thinking this might be something else to do for a few hours a month on a random weeknight.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Seppe »

Getting large felt is a good first step. You can put books under it to simulate hills. Or on top if you dont mind. Cups can as buildings, you can use twigs/sticks for terrian. As was mentioned above you can use construction paper to represent water/forest/rough/etc. Or splurge and go for felt. Easier to put your minis down on it that trying to fit them between trees without knocking them down. Some people use 3 or 4 trees as corners to represent forested area.

You can also look at the halloween/christmas little village decorations for some cheap terrain. (obvouisly after the holiday for the cheap)


As far as mini games and rules go, there are lots of options. You should decide how many minis you want to have or the scale you want to repesent. You can try something that uses a few at first if you want (skirmish) or perhaps you want to represent whole armies so something along 10/15mm scale.

Warhammer is not that good of a ruleset IMO, but the setting and mythology with are. If you want to try a skirmish size with it you can look at mordhiem (and it fan made stuff) or for 40k skirmish there is fan made Death ??? squads i think.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Blackhawk »

Seppe wrote: Warhammer is not that good of a ruleset IMO, but the setting and mythology with are. If you want to try a skirmish size with it you can look at mordhiem (and it fan made stuff) or for 40k skirmish there is fan made Death ??? squads i think.
Warhammer is a horribly bloated rule set, and Games Workshop is an atrocious company.

If you're wanting to go all out, consider War Machine. I've never played it, but I've heard so many good things from so many sources that I have no hesitation recommending it.

If you want fantasy, consider Warlord. It is much more manageable, and one book is all you need. I also have a great deal of respect for the company behind it (Reaper Miniatures.)
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Seppe »

Blackhawk wrote: Warhammer is a horribly bloated rule set, and Games Workshop is an atrocious company.

If you're wanting to go all out, consider War Machine. I've never played it, but I've heard so many good things from so many sources that I have no hesitation recommending it.

If you want fantasy, consider Warlord. It is much more manageable, and one book is all you need. I also have a great deal of respect for the company behind it (Reaper Miniatures.)
I agree with you on the whole GW thing, if people are interested in iti try not to turn them away.

Warmachine is game i like quite a bit but havent played the current edition.

There are lots of rulesets out there, many are free, dont be afraid to look around and try stuff.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

Apparently my buddy has been messing around with paper craft -- he made up some templates to get a sense of the right scale, but the plan is to create them as modular blocks that can be swapped around for custom maps.

Image

Image

I think with paper craft buildings, we can then add in wilderness terrain on the outskirts rather easily. I think the biggest problem will be figuring out storage. :?
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

I feel like such a slacker. This is what my buddy has been up to for the last month, all for Heroclix:

Image

If you look closely in the background, you can see the map he created for Wings of Glory. :)

Image

Everything is apparently just printed out and then glued to foamcore.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Blackhawk »

Looks like someone's been shopping WorldWorks! Nice stuff.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

I can't remember the name, but that might be it. He said he purchased some type of tool (I think it was < $10) that allows him to custom-create maps and the files for printing 3D buildings and such. He said it's tedious, but oddly relaxing. I'm very curious to see it in person.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Blackhawk »

This is the piece I recognized.

They have a ton of stuff, and the quality seems top notch. I've never used any myself, as the printing cost seems like it would be high, but I've always been tempted to invest some cardstock and give it a go.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

He has...uhh..."access" to a color laser printer...and a plotter because yeah, I think it would be very expensive otherwise. I'll get more info from him tomorrow night -- he's bringing it all over for game night.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by J.D. »

.... and then what happened?
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Smoove_B »

:D

I think I updated this in the actual board gaming thread. He finished an entire town map using the above technique and we played a whole bunch of Heroclix. I think his kids enjoy playing with them more, though and we've moved on to Memoir'44. ;)

I might try to get back into making some WW2-themed stuff this summer based on a bunch of videos I watched on Youtube, but siting in the basement to work on those things now...it's just too damn cold.
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by silvaril »

Heya

Another thought, 3D Printing per the following article:
http://www.tested.com/art/makers/452866 ... re-gaming/" target="_blank
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by Blackhawk »

Blackhawk wrote: Warhammer is a horribly bloated rule set, and Games Workshop is an atrocious company.
Games Workshop has taken it further - they're now making legal threats against people for using the term 'space marine.'
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Re: [Miniatures] - Getting Started

Post by TiLT »

Blackhawk wrote:
Blackhawk wrote: Warhammer is a horribly bloated rule set, and Games Workshop is an atrocious company.
Games Workshop has taken it further - they're now making legal threats against people for using the term 'space marine.'
Ooh, let's see them go up against id Software and Bethesda for having space marines (yes, they're specifically called that) in the Doom games, something they've done since the early 90s. That could get fun.
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