Can we stand another Kickstarter? Sails of Glory!

[Daveman]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/140 ... hip-combat" target="_blank

Not sure I'll be investing in this, given my sons rejection of X-Wing... but this is really tempting. I will check out the rules when I can though.

[hentzau]

Well, I love the Wings of War/Wings of Glory system but I'm very disappointed in the size/clunkiness of the bases. It really bugs me, compared to the clear bases of the plane games.

[TiLT]

This looks glorious, but I don't think I can justify buying it at this price (especially considering the massive shipping costs to Europe) when I've already got X-Wing. I'm a sucker for these things though, so I've at least set it to remind me before the Kickstarter ends.

[raydude]

A while back I wanted to get into naval games in the age of sail. I haven't played any naval tactical games at all and the rules for modern naval warfare (i.e. Harpoon rules) seemed very complicated. WW2 and WW1 rules less so, but still seemed a bit much, so I figured combat in the age of sail would be just the ticket. I tried Wooden Ships and Iron Men but couldn't get into the cardboard counters. That was about when I realized that I had grown past the stage of being a cardboard counter hardcore wargamer.

So I looked around for some naval miniatures rules. I found "Fire as She Bears" which seemed like a good mix of being accessible while still allowing for some realistic tactical thought. I bought a few 1/1000th scale miniatures but was filled with a sense of "ugh this is too much work" when I realized they came unassembled and unpainted. I tried using the ships from Wizkids "Pirates of the Caribbean" but turns out the ships I want are only available on ebay and that the game line had taken a turn towards the fantastical with sea monsters and such.

I do love Wings of War though, and I have several of the WW1 minis and love the look and feel of them. I also read the movement article on the company's website. It seems like a very clean and intuitive way of determining movement rate and turning radius versus wind direction and ship type. I'm hoping this game will be a great intro into age of sail naval warfare, for both me and my kids - once they get past the stage of either trying to eat them or being a little too rough with them.

In short, I'm in.

[TiLT]

So... they recently added another tier of rewards to this Kickstarter above the Captain level (core game + 4 KS exclusive ships + all 8 additional ships from Wave 1, for a grand total of 16 ships), essentially combining two Captain rewards into one. When this happened, a few of those who had opted for Captain before went up to this new level. I used the opportunity to snag an Early Bird Captain slot.

I'm liking this game more and more as I read about it. Contrary to my first impression, this seems to be a pretty different experience from X-Wing, with a slower pace, deeper planning, and far more complex ship management. The rules for firing arcs are easy to understand and use during play, and using the Advanced rules you'll be able to do such things as load your cannons with grape shot, unload with muskets at close range, swap between three sail settings (full sails, combat sails and backing sails), reload cannons, etc. Your ability to do these things is affected by the amount of crew and ship damage you've taken as well. Lose enough crew, and you may find yourself capable of only reloading one broadside per turn, or with too few people to bring your ship up to full sails in a timely manner. Wind has a very strong effect on your movement capabilities. Using the Advanced rules you'll find yourself planning out moves ahead of time, and by the time your orders are supposed to be executed, the wind may have ended up in an unfavorable direction to you, turning what was supposed to be a quick advance into a slow, backwards drift.

These are the things I've picked up from the developers so far at least. The next tutorial will focus on these extra rules, and I'm eagerly looking forward to reading it.

[Chaz]

This is another one where I suspect I'd really like the gameplay, but man, the cost.

With all these miniatures games, I really wish they'd put out a cheapskate version where the minis are replaced by cardboard chits the same size as the bases. Yeah, you lose some atmosphere, but you'd get to play the game without investing a million bucks.

I think what I'm basically asking for is how they originally released Wings of War, where the planes were cards, and later they put out minis that you could optionally buy and replace them with.

[raydude]

The developer sent some playtest kits out for sneak peaks and playtests. Here's a link to a favorable impression. In at Lieutenant.

[raydude]

A video showing advanced rules gameplay is up. Also, looks like pledge levels of Lieutenant and up get a decent amount of free stuff. Looking foward to this game.

[Daehawk]

I had passed over this thread many times thinking how boring it must be to play a board game with ships. then I entered and checked the Kickstarter page and the videos. WOW..that is a very detailed game. I like that. I now think it will be a hit.

[TiLT]

The rewards are really starting to add up now, towards the end of the campaign (less than 3 days left!). As a Captain, the level I'm on, you get the following extra rewards in addition to the ones from your pledge:

- Game mat
- Wooden laser-cut attitude indicator
- Wooden laser-cut combat ruler
- 2x Terrain Pack #1
- 2x Terrain Pack #2
- Captain and crew ability deck
- 4 smoke clouds
- Additional set of the counters from the base set
- PDF scenario booklet
- An upgrade to the ship cards and logs that lets you use the same ship model for two different ships

In addition, there are two more stretch goals at $250k and $275k that add up to 5 bags for the different damage chits.

[hentzau]

Would love to back it, but I have to put a stop to the madness someplace...

[hentzau]

Seriously. I really can't afford this right now.

[Zarathud]

Do I have to sink your frigate? In the same boat, the madness has to end. There are still summer cons to attend.

[raydude]

We doing naval puns now? Don't give up the ship boys!
I agree though, we are drowning in boardgame kickstarters.

[Chaz]

And so many of them are for hugely expensive miniatures-based games. It was kind of refreshing when I found a board game kickstarter yesterday where a $25 pledge got you a copy of the game.

[TiLT]

Come on, people! With a small push we can hit both the remaining stretch goals (one at 1200 backers, the other at $275k pledged) in the 2 last hours.

[coopasonic]

+1 backer and +$140... damned if I know why...

[hentzau]

A little over an hour. I can hold out!

[LordMortis]

+1 backer and +$140... damned if I know why...

Cheaper than a typical $300 order from a mail order gaming store?

A little over an hour. I can hold out!

Did I happen to mention I'm impressed?

[Chaz]

If someone sends me $140, I'd be happy to add one to the backer total!

[coopasonic]

If someone sends me $140, I'd be happy to add one to the backer total!

It only takes $1 to do that. and they could use it. ~32 short with an hour to go.

[hentzau]

'Twas like Ulysses and the Sirens, but I managed to remain strong. I will be green with jealousy when you guys start bragging about how cool it is when it comes out, though.

[coopasonic]

Got the main shipment today. Second shipment with mats and other stuff is supposed to come Thursday I think.

I read through the basic and standard rules and I think the gameplay at least at the standard level is somewhat simpler than X-wing, which is good. I'm looking forward to getting a chance to play. Sadly my old man back is out and leaning over a table is probably not a good idea in the near future.. That may stop me. Maybe.

I have 8 ships and without looking too closely they seem to be just 2 molds. Also I will need to figure out a storage solution. The ships needs to be protected! The base game box wastes a lot of space, but showcases the 4 included ships nicely.

Did I mention the ships are nice?

[TiLT]

I read through the basic and standard rules and I think the gameplay at least at the standard level is somewhat simpler than X-wing, which is good.

People who playtested the game said it was easy for kids to pick up and play the basic rules. On the other hand, the most advanced rules are at a level where even I won't try to play with them at first.

I have 8 ships and without looking too closely they seem to be just 2 molds.

I think they are all different molds, but there are only two ship classes in the first release. These are the frigate and ship of the line. AFAIK, there wasn't historically a huge difference in looks between ships within the same class, but there should be some difference.

I'll probably get my Captain-level shipment with a ton of extras just after the new year, I guess.

[coopasonic]

Comments to follow...

[coopasonic]

I played a teaching/learning game with my 7 year old using the standard rules. Standard rules are not much more complicated than the basic rules and the addition of the plan ahead rule makes things much more interesting. After playing just this one learning game I wish I had backed at a higher level. I figured I would give him an advantage since this was his first attempt at anything like this. Not that I am any good, I just figured I would be much better than him. I didn't really take into account the strength difference between the frigates and ships of the line. I gave him a frigate and SOL against my frigate. He only hit me twice, but the second hit would have sank me all by itself. A raking shot from the rear had me drawing 11 A damage chits. Boom!

I have yet to look at the advanced rules. The standard rules are definitely simpler than X-wing, but the plan ahead rule makes thing much more interesting as I said. Anyone who can handle X-wing can easily handle this with the standard rules.

[TiLT]

Man, a frigate and a SOL against a mere frigate? You were just asking to be trounced. The SOL is a frigate killer, as it should be. Unless the frigates have numerical superiority, they're better off withdrawing in a fight against that kind of firepower, letting their own SOLs handle the situation.

Looking forward to getting my game. Haven't received a shipping number yet, so it could be a couple of weeks still. I ordered "everything".

[TiLT]

Got my tracking numbers today, and can now eagerly watch both packages move closer to my location... slowly. As usual with international shipments, I have no idea if this will take three days or three weeks.

[TiLT]

I just received the first of two Sails of Glory packages, the primary one. The second is being sent with lower priority shipping, so it might take a week or two extra for it to reach me. I haven't actually compared what I got to what I was supposed to have, but I think I have everything except my two game mats right now.

Having punched out the cardboard and sorted everything into little plastic bags, I'm left with 5 packs of extras, as well as a deck of cards, that I might never end up unpacking. In other words, there's no shortage of components here. This won't be true for anyone purchasing the game retail, but it's certainly true for someone who pledged for the Captain level in the Kickstarter.

The ships look awesome and are larger than I suspected. One thing that surprised me, even after having seen tons of pictures of the game, is the size difference between frigates and ships of the line. There's a bigger difference than I thought there would be, which pleases me. It should be immediately obvious on the game board which class each ship belongs to.

I'm going to wait to play this game until I get the mats, but for now I'm very pleased with what I have. Looking forward to playing it.

[coopasonic]

CSI has Saily of Glory stuff in stock now.

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/page/1789" target="_blank

[TiLT]

Played my first two rounds of this game yesterday, and it was a lot of fun. The first match used standard rules and two ships each, with a couple of optional rules thrown into the mix. The second match was with advanced rules and one ship each, again with a bunch of optional rules. The game is fast-paced and exciting. One poor move can spell disaster for the unfortunate crew on board one of these ships, as we'll see below.

The following are simple battle reports from each match. Please excuse the poor picture quality. It was pretty dark.

Match 1: Standard rules.

This was the basic introductory scenario. The French and English start at separate sides of an ocean map while the wind blows west, offering each side similar wind conditions. The French ships were the frigate Courageuse (34 guns and 280 crew) serving as backup for the much larger ship of the line Généreux (74 guns and 693 crew). The English brought the small but agile frigate HMS Terpsichore (32 guns, 220 crew) supporting the majestic ship of the line HMS Defence (74 guns, 597 crew).

The strategies were simple. Both sides wanted to turn west to get optimal amount of wind in their sails. The English planned to keep the HMS Defence between the HMS Terpsichore and the French ships, only bringing in the frigate to pick off potential targets of opportunity. The French took a different approach, sending both their ships directly into the fray, exposing their frigate to great risks in the process. A full broadside from the HMS Defence would have finished off the Courageuse almost instantly.



Here we see the Courageuse in the upper left, the Généreux in the upper right, the HMS Terpsichore in the lower left, and the HMS Defence in the lower right.

Things started reasonably predictably. The initial movement of the ships matched the tactics. The French kept a reasonably straight course with both ships, angling towards the west, while the English began to separate their ships, aiming the HMS Defence towards the enemy while having the HMS Terpsichore lean into the wind to get as far out of the fray as possible right away.



The first shots were exchanged. Little did the English know that they had already sealed their fate at this early stage. The angle was wrong, and the artillery fire from the HMS Defence barely scratched the hull of the Généreux, while the shots coming in the opposite direction were more lucky. The HMS Terpsichore fired at the Courageuse but missed, while the Courageuse helped out by firing against the HMS Defence, achieving a raking shot at long range. The cannons of a frigate aren't terribly frightening to a ship of the line, but even reducing the combat effectiveness of the HMS Defence slightly at this point was a good idea.



The English were starting to realize their mistake now. While they had decided to bring their frigate back into the mix in an attempt to cut off the Courageuse, keeping it between itself and the enemy ship of the line, the HMS Defence got into a perfect position to rake the front of the Généreux. However, they had wasted their precious ammo the previous turn, leaving them toothless as the two ship of the lines passed each other harmlessly.



Disaster! The French sandwiched the HMS Defence between them, raking it with full broadsides from opposite directions. The English ship of the line was now so badly wounded that even if it got out of this precarious position, it wouldn't be able to do much damage with its remaining cannons. Things were looking bleak.

Meanwhile, the two frigates lined up perfectly along each other's side and got entangled in each other's rigging. Hooks were being thrown, and boarding parties on both sides prepared to take the other ship by force. Muskets rang on both sides, and the HMS Defence supported its smaller cousin as best it could with its remaining crew.

Only the Généreux remained free to sail out of this deadly skirmish.



The frigates untangled themselves from each other but kept their hooks attached, fighting a bloody battle across both decks. The HMS Defence attempted to attach boarding hooks from the other side, but its attempts were repelled by the defenders. Even so, the Courageuse was fighting a losing battle despite making the English pay for every yard of advancement with their own blood.

Meanwhile the Généreux maneuvered into position, lining up for another full broadside against the limping HMS Defence.



Surrender! The Courageuse could take no more and surrendered itself to the English frigate, but it was too little, too late. No longer held back by its boarding hooks, the HMS Terpsichore sailed on, too late discovering that it was on a collision course with the HMS Defence approaching from the other side. The two friendly ships smashed into each other's side, finally breaking the will of the crew on the ship of the line, who surrendered to the French forces immediately.

With the almost untouched Généreux coming up behind it, the heavily diminished HMS Terpsichore did the only sensible thing and surrendered as well. The French had won!

[TiLT]

Match 2: Advanced rules

This time each player had only one ship each. The French chose the heavy La Concorde for their ship, featuring 32 guns and 302 crew. The English picked the lighter, more agile HMS Juno, featuring 32 guns and only 220 crew. The advantage would be with the French if the two ships should end up in a melee, but with these fast ships, keeping distance shouldn't be a problem, right? The French captain was also very charismatic, allowing him to keep his men fighting longer should things turn desperate. The English on the other hand had a well-trained crew with expert aim, making them more accurate with artillery fire.



The battle took place in a treacherous bay, with land in almost every direction. The middle of the bay held two rocky cliffs with dangerous underwater rocks extending even beyond the visible land. Adding to that, there were several shoals that threatened to ground the unwary captain. The wind blew east, forcing the ships to either go against the wind or risk drifting towards the sandy beaches of the eastern shore, extending far beyond the visible shoreline.

The La Concorde approached the battlefield from the south, while the HMS Juno came in from the north.



Right off, the French hoisted their sails, sailing at full speed towards the small gap between the western island and the shoals. It was a dangerous maneuver, but the French wanted to take the advantage by cutting off the English at their side of the islands. The English on the other hand took a more careful approach, using battle sails as they kept the shoals between themselves and the enemy.



Disaster struck almost immediately as the French gambit paid off handsomely. La Concorde, finally lowering its speed to battle sails, unleashed a surprising full broadside of chain shot against the poorly protected front of the smaller HMS Juno, expecting to damage their sails. However, their aim was low and the chain shot caused mayhem among the English crew instead, killing dozens while leaving the sails untouched and causing a small amount of hull damage. Meanwhile the crew of both ships were prepared for boarding action. Musket fire rang from both sides while grappling hooks attached the two ships together, though they had mercifully avoided getting entangled in each other.

It was a massacre. The HMS Juno stood little chance against the larger crew of the La Concorde. In only one round, the English were almost ready to surrender.

Here you can see the battle log for the HMS Juno after the first round of attacks:


And here is the battle log for the La Concorde at the exact same moment:


The HMS Juno had lost the vast majority of their crew during one intense flurry of battle, while the La Concorde was completely undamaged and suffered only moderate crew loss.



With their few remaining crew, the English foolishly attempted to repel the boarders, but failed. Dealing only a few more casualties to the French in the progress, the HMS Juno finally surrendered.

The captain of the La Concorde could proudly sail back to France with an almost undamaged English frigate in tow, having suffered no material damage themselves. All in all, it was a good day for the French and a bad day for the English.

[IceBear]

So, playing defensively is a bad thing in this game based on these two examples

[hentzau]

That looks really fun. Thanks for the reports.

[coopasonic]

So, playing defensively is a bad thing in this game based on these two examples

Only if you get hit.