[Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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[Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hepcat »

Like the game mechanic of FFG's Star Wars X-Wing, but you're more of a Star Trek fan? Well, you're in luck. Wizkids is giving us just that with their upcoming Star Trek: Attack Wing. But using their Heroclix minis like those found in Star Trek Fleet Captains.
Game description from the publisher:

Star Trek: Attack Wing is a tactical space combat HeroClix miniatures game, featuring pre-painted ships from the Star Trek Universe.

By using the FlightPath maneuver system* (licensed from Fantasy Flight Games), players engage in exploration and combat, traversing sprawling Star Trek space maps made available via an in-store Organized Play program. As commander, players have the ability to customize, upgrade, and assign famous crewmembers to their fleets, which feature ships from the series' prominent empires and forces as well as special stats and abilities, and unique maneuvers on separate HeroClix Combat Dials.

Star Trek: Attack Wing is a standalone game which uses the core rule set of FFGs' FlightPath game system with a Star Trek twist, but is not compatible with other FlightPath games from FFG.

The FlightPath maneuver system used in Star Trek: Attack Wing is based on the original Game Design by Jason Little.
One of the designers is Andrew Parks. He made one of my favorite empire building deck builders, Core Worlds.

Sounds like it's going to premiere at Gencon...

...which means I'm probably going to drop way too much cash at the convention.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by raydude »

I admit I was initially put off by the fact that they were using the Xwing movement system, in part because I was worried that they would treat the starships like bigger star fighters. But, I saw that Andrew Park has a few posts on the development of Attack Wing on boardgamegeek. In particular, his posts on shields, captains and crew, and cloaking have gotten me very interested and it looks more and more as if this could be a nice blend of fast-paced gameplay with Star Trek style capital ship combat. To the point where I think it could be fun to just have a classic duel between single starships in this game.

I do want to see more posts by Andrew on weapons and how exactly maneuvering is an important part of the game (he has brought this up from time to time).

Also - impressions from anyone going to GenCon would be most welcome :D
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Oh, I'm sure I'll have something to say after gencon. Maybe even during. :wink:
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by El Guapo »

Can you cross the Star Trek and Star Wars systems? Could we finally have the Enterprise vs. Star Destroyer duel?
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hepcat »

They mention in the article that you can't combine the two systems, so I guess there's some large changes to their implementation of the game mechanics.

...but I think we know the results of your theoretical musings.

Star Trek trumps Star Wars in almost every way. While the Star Destroyer was taking the 72 minutes it requires to turn 14 degrees to starboard, Kirk and the gang would've destroyed them, made Vader into a cabin boy and put Jar Jar Binks into one of the torpedo coffins from Wrath of Khan and fired him into an asteroid just for shits and giggles.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by raydude »

hepcat wrote: Star Trek trumps Star Wars in almost every way. While the Star Destroyer was taking the 72 minutes it requires to turn 14 degrees to starboard, Kirk and the gang would've destroyed them, made Vader into a cabin boy and put Jar Jar Binks into one of the torpedo coffins from Wrath of Khan and fired him into an asteroid just for shits and giggles.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by AWS260 »

raydude wrote:
hepcat wrote: Star Trek trumps Star Wars in almost every way. While the Star Destroyer was taking the 72 minutes it requires to turn 14 degrees to starboard, Kirk and the gang would've destroyed them, made Vader into a cabin boy and put Jar Jar Binks into one of the torpedo coffins from Wrath of Khan and fired him into an asteroid just for shits and giggles.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Zarathud »

It's a trap!! Someone will create a Trek v. Star Wars crossover variant.

Kirk would fall to the dark side when confronting a Sith lord.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by El Guapo »

hepcat wrote:They mention in the article that you can't combine the two systems, so I guess there's some large changes to their implementation of the game mechanics.

...but I think we know the results of your theoretical musings.

Star Trek trumps Star Wars in almost every way. While the Star Destroyer was taking the 72 minutes it requires to turn 14 degrees to starboard, Kirk and the gang would've destroyed them, made Vader into a cabin boy and put Jar Jar Binks into one of the torpedo coffins from Wrath of Khan and fired him into an asteroid just for shits and giggles.
Oh I agree, but I am all for things that encourage the carrying out of longstanding nerd feuds.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by killbot737 »

I don't care what the rules say, Wedge commanding a Sovereign-class ship would be pretty epic. He would take out a super star destroyer by himself (well him and the 1000 crew members that run the ship).

I also want to see what Kirk can do in the Falcon. It is a chick magnet after all. Kirk could go slumming at the Mos Eisley cantina.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Daveman »

For what it's worth, I find it difficult to accept that a sprawling, ancient intergalactic civilization as portrayed in Star Wars would be as far behind in technology vs. Star Trek as is often discussed in this "debate". Having said that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFCBwob65Nw" target="_blank
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hepcat »

:?

Who said that the Star Wars universe was paleolithic in comparison to the Star Trek world? The only thing most of us are saying is that STAR TREK RULES, STAR WARS DROOLS! SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Isgrimnur »

hepcat wrote:SAN DEMIS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!
All the cool kids go to San Dimas.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by killbot737 »

The problem for Star Wars is that it suffers from Tolkien technology stagnation.
  • 4000 years before New Hope (KOTOR, KOTOR2, SWTOR): Blasters, lightsabers, lightspeed, wookies, droids, etc.
    Then nothing happened for 4000 years.
    New Hope: whiny farm boy on the hero's journey. This is not a new idea.
Same with Tolkien.
  • 3000 years ago: Sauron, Agent Smith, Narsil, possibly Gandalf and his merry wizard friends, men, farms, horses, orcs, etc.
    Hobbit and LOTR: Exactly the same thing.
If anything everyone is even dumber than before when it comes to LOTR and The Hobbit. Where were the new magic swords of ultimate destruction? No, all they had were relics from 1000+ years ago!

That is why Trek is better than Wars. And if you want a semi-related story go read The Forever War.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hepcat »

Isgrimnur wrote:
hepcat wrote:SAN DEMIS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!
All the cool kids go to San Dimas.
fixed :oops:
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by TiLT »

killbot737 wrote:The problem for Star Wars is that it suffers from Tolkien technology stagnation.
  • 4000 years before New Hope (KOTOR, KOTOR2, SWTOR): Blasters, lightsabers, lightspeed, wookies, droids, etc.
    Then nothing happened for 4000 years.
Only if you accept Bioware's The Old Republic as canon, which it isn't at all (it's at the second lowest step of the canon tier, with only "what if" stories and setting crossovers below it).

There was a lot of change going in during those 4000 years, but Bioware likes to pretend there wasn't any. Lightsabers went from requiring an attached backpack into the sleek devices from the movies, society went from nearly medieval on planetary surfaces, hyperspace calculation went from requiring days of manual math and plenty of intermediary jumps to being calculated in minutes or even seconds by droids or ship computers and going directly to the target. Systems went from being almost completely isolated from the Republic to nearly instant communication through the Holonet. Starships went from clunky, unpredictable ships with little automation and no advanced features like shields or small hyperspace engines, into the way more effective things you see in the movies. Change and development happened slowly due to the stagnation of the Old Republic. There was a giant leap in technology once the Empire came to power though, due to a change in priorities and a ditching of the old, bloated systems of government.

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by JSHAW »

Are there hats in the game? :lol:
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Of course. What would star trek be without hats? Battlestar Galactica?
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hepcat »

What I would like to see is some kind of Hat Upgrade system in this game. Give it a little bit of an RPG feel.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by JSHAW »

hepcat wrote:What I would like to see is some kind of Hat Upgrade system in this game. Give it a little bit of an RPG feel.
Would that entail upgrading to hats from any century? So if I wanted my away team's hats to look like those of the Thrid Reich's SS,
I could do that? :lol:
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Daveman »

JSHAW wrote:Would that entail upgrading to hats from any century? So if I wanted my away team's hats to look like those of the Thrid Reich's SS,
I could do that? :lol:
I think there's a precedent for that!

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Seppe »

Hats huh? Hats are nice. But you know what would really separate it from the crowd is masks. Mask are were it is at. Just ask the Utwig.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Chrisoc13 »

Anyone playing this? I really love X-wing and have gone overboard in collecting it, but I also am a big Star Trek fan and have been taking a loot at attack wing as of late.

I have a few concerns, for one there are so many ships and I am a completionist... this obviously worries me. In X-wing I actually use all of my ships on a fairly regular basis. I love Star Trek enough I am not sure I could restrain myself from buying all of the ships eventually. And possibly multiple copies of most of them. Then that leads to battlefoam etc etc. (Although the paint jobs are not near as nice so less likely to go for the foam). So the slippery slope of completionism is my first concern.

My other concern is a big one: the organized play material. I tried the game at GenCon and it was good, but already they were trying to push me to buy it with special powerful items you could only get at Gen Con. I really hate those kind of promos. FFG does a great job with X-wing. The promos are cool, but they do nothing to change the game play. The Attack Wing promos are a big deal. I was reading on BGG and people were posting that it is theoretically possible to do well in a tournament without organized play materials. I really really don't like that. I don't have time to go to lots of organized events, I tend to play in my own free time which is intermittent. Also I will undoubtedly take a break from the game at some point for several months (as I do every game including X-wing) and when I return I don't want to be SOL because I missed some amazing promo. I tested the game at GenCon last year and already I am behind on all sorts of OP materials needed to make fleets competitive. That is a bummer to me. That might be enough to keep me out, even though I am a huge Start Trek fan, probably as much as I am a Star Wars fan.

SO does anyone have any experience with Attack Wing? I already have a couple of great Star Trek games (especially Fleet captains) so I don't need another one to scratch the itch of Star Trek, but these sure do look cool and I do love the system.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Defiant »

I have the base game, and have played it a few times. It's lots of fun. I could use a few more (both for variety and to support more players) but it would be nice if there was a good place I could look at what the pros and cons of each of the ships were, a list of rated (by players) scenarios and what ships they require, length, etc.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by $iljanus »

Defiant wrote:I have the base game, and have played it a few times. It's lots of fun. I could use a few more (both for variety and to support more players) but it would be nice if there was a good place I could look at what the pros and cons of each of the ships were, a list of rated (by players) scenarios and what ships they require, length, etc.
Other than BGG perhaps A Few Maneuvers might have something. They used to be just X-Wing oriented but a while back they added an Attack Wing section to their site.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Well I have decided I am going to pick up the base game this weekend while I am at a game store playing in an X-wing tournament. I have read enough about it and found that most of the OP stuff is pretty easy to get on ebay for 5-10 bucks that I'm not too concerned about it. Some of the ships will be hard to get however. But I guess this will help me get over that completionist itch. I found the defiant online and ordered it too because what the heck it is my favorite ship in Star Trek, if I am picking up the game this weekend might as well get my favorite ship.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Zarathud »

I am holding out to see what the Dragon Wing looks like -- and hoping it will have the hook to suck in my kids. They are already fascinated by my plastic prepainted fantasy themed "little dudes."
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by hentzau »

I'll probably bite on Dragon Wing as well.

(Heh. Sounds like something you would get at the bar at Medieval Times...)
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Turtle »

Dragon Wing only interests me in that it will also have a pre-painted ground combat element, or so I've heard. To be honest, I haven't heard much else about it.

The quality of ST's miniatures, or lack thereof, bothers me since it doesn't bode well for Dragon Wing.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Five minutes of searching later, I'm guessing that 'Dragon Wing' is Attack Wing: Dungeons & Dragons Starter Set.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Well I picked up a few ships, and I have a few thoughts. I have played a couple of games, but I need a little while to put together my thoughts. The short of it? X-wing is better in almost every respect. This is coming from someone who loves Star Trek just as much as Star Wars, so it isn't a fandom thing. It is just a better game. All the same attack wing is still fun. I'll share more detailed thoughts when I get a bit more time, but here is a pic I took from the game I recently played in:

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

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So after playing a couple of games of attack wing, I honestly can say that the game simply is not at the level of X-wing. It isn't that it isn't a good game, because in all honesty it is a really good game. The problem is it was outdone before it even launched by X-wing. The comparison is inevitable. It uses the exact same system. It has some minor tweaks, but otherwise it is the same game. So when I sit down to play I'll have to decide X-wing or attack wing... and X-wing will win 90% of the time.

First off the models are far inferior. Not to scale (except it seems the original enterprise to the enterprise D which makes it look ridiculous since no other ships are to scale). Some of them also have horrible paint jobs. The newer ones actually look OK, but still not near the level of X-wing models. The detail simply isn't there. If X-wing had not come before it I am sure these models would be considered great for a board game. Actually I am sure WizKids would have simply launched single colored ships like they did for fleet captains (which is fine, don't get me wrong I don't think it detracts from fleet captains in the slightest) but in comparison to X-wing... they simply are not good enough.

The game is not balanced. I'm honestly not sure they play-test a lot of the ships. For one their point system is formulaic. Add up all of the stats (agility, firepower, shields, and hull) and multiply by 2. That is how much the ship costs. No taking into consideration which actions are available. No taking into consideration what special abilities the ship has. No taking into consideration the movement dial of the ship. No taking into consideration the firing arc of the ship (and to star trek's credit that ships have a very wide variety of firing arcs, which is really cool). Essentially to me it seems in a bid to make a new wave of ships every month they decided to not bother play testing point balance. I get it, balancing points is obviously going to be the most difficult part of designing this game. But their point system is just straight up lazy. The borg has a 360 degree firing arc, can move in any direction straight at any speed it wants at any time, and can regenerate health, and yet it costs 2 points more (because of one more shield) than DS9 which is stationary and can easily be avoided. Not sure they did any sort of thinking about balancing the game.

Factions are far from balanced- this comes to a plus and minus of the game. The game is obviously not intended to be played faction pure. You are allowed to use any upgrades, crew, elite talents etc on any ship essentially (unless otherwise specified and the borg have more limits) and all you do if you are flying a mixed faction is add one point for each mixed card used. I get how it works thematically. In star trek you may have Riker commanding a klingon bird of prey one episode. It isn't absurd to have faction mixing in the TV series or movies. It allows for those thematic moves. The problem with it is it vastly limits the number of builds which are competitive. Picard gets a free action every turn, so of course everyone will take him every game if they are trying to be competitive. Why not? A free action is huge. So picard is now captain of romulan, vulcan, ajorn, ferengi, dominion, federation, kilingon, tholian ships etc etc. Fun, but ultimately it breaks the game down into only playing the killer combos.

I like the choices in terms of different factions to fly. I think it is awesome. The problem with it is that because you can mix factions they have made zero effort to balance the factions. Why should they? Anyone can use any other factions stuff so that way it is always kind of self-balanced. Which then means that again the lazy way is taken and no effort to balance is done. X-wing you can actually see them carefully balancing the game. The rebels get a swarm ship, the empire gets a heavy hitter. The rebels have too much turret power, the empire gets a turret. Attack wing makes no such effort. You want to fly bajorn? Good luck. There are only 2 ships. Both are essentially tie fighters in power. Oh and one of them is a prize ship you have to win to get. Vulcan? Only one ship. Ferengi? One hip, and it is a prize ship you have to win or pay Ebay prices. No effort to balance the factions. And in their defense it would be hard. Obviously the Federation has the most source material to draw from. Klingons are next, then romulans and dominion. After that the other faction get sparse in the amount of source material to draw from. So the universe itself doesn't lend itself to faction balancing the way X-wing does.

The borg are broken. Again it is hard to fault wizkids too much, the idea of the borg is that they are unbeatable. I picked up the two borg ships first because, well who wouldn't? I thing the borg is one of the best enemies ever created. But in the movies and tv series they are also fairly unbeatable. So to introduce them to the game they basically were stuck. Either make them unbeatable and they are broken. Make them weak and it is thematically incorrect. It's a bit of an issue. But the borg as it stands now isn't fun to paly, isn't fun to play against, and is far from balanced.

Finally the prize ships. I really despise the way wizkids is doing this. They have great organized play. It is awesome. But you have to do organized play (or pay ebay prices) to get some of the best ships in the game. That I am not a fan of.

Attack wing does a lot of things right, the missions are great, it is a much better game for 3-players than x-wing, the captains changing ships is a great idea, the huge variety of ships, factions, and firing arcs etc are really cool. I like the game, I do. But X-wing is better. I'll buy some Attack wing stuff still in the future, because I love Star Trek. But it won't hit the table near as much as X-wing has. I will buy some of the cool stuff when it comes out, like the 8 inch by 8 inch huge borg cube that is coming out this fall.

Long story short- a a fan of both universes (neither greater than the other) if you are only getting into one game, X-wing is the game. Attack wing is inferior in almost every way. Only a couple of things make attack wing stand out.
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Re: [Boardgames] Star Trek: Attack Wing

Post by Turtle »

Well, Attack Wing is just the wizkid's clix game regurgitated into the X-Wing rules.
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