GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Holman
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GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

GMT just announced the next game in the COIN (Counter-Insurgency) series, Fire in the Lake: Insurgency in Vietnam.

Designer Volko Ruhnke is known for Labyrinth, Andean Abyss, and this summer's upcoming Cuba Libre and A Distant Plain. Mark Herman has made many wargames (including Washington's War and We the People). I'm a fan of both of these guys, and I've been hoping for a Vietnam Game from this series since I first learned of it.

The game is now up for P500 pre-order.

Long text from the GMT website:
Spoiler:
Vietnam, 1964. The most wrenching US engagement of the Cold War would be far more than GI versus Charlie. The conflict had set tribesman against nationalist, Buddhist against Catholic, mandarin against villager, and of course Northerner against Southerner—even among the communists. As revolutionary change burned through that ancient civilization, Washington would apply its armament and its operations research. To get out, the US counterinsurgency would have to motor deeper and deeper in. In the end, culture and will would overcome technology and math and signal the end of the primacy of industrial might in modern warfare.

Volume IV in GMT’s COIN Series dives headlong into the momentous and complex battle for South Vietnam. A unique multi-faction treatment of the Vietnam War, Fire in the Lake will take 1 to 4 players on US heliborne sweeps of the jungle and Communist infiltration of the South, and into inter-allied conferences, Saigon politics, interdiction of the Ho Chi Minh Trail, air defense of Northern infrastructure, graduated escalation, and media war.

Renowned designer and modern warfare expert Mark Herman joins COIN Series creator Volko Ruhnke for a collaborative production not to be missed. Fire in the Lake features the same card-assisted counterinsurgency game system as GMT's Andean Abyss, Cuba Libre, and A Distant Plain, with a pack of twists that take the Series to another level, including:

Pivotal events that trump initiative (Tet Offensive, Vietnamization, Easter Offensive, and Linebacker II)
Inter-coup campaign effects that vary by RVN leader
Counterinsurgent guerrillas (US-led Montagnards and ARVN Rangers)
Insurgent troops (NVA) for direct force-on-force engagements
Tunneled VC and NVA bases
Trail construction and degradation
A larger-than-ever event deck for even greater play variety
Short and medium-length scenarios with either random or period-event options.
Each Fire in the Lake faction presents fresh challenges:

As the Viet Cong, you must light the people’s fire for the Revolution. How long do you build in the shadows, and when do you emerge to set the spark? Your big brother from the North will draw the enemy’s attention away from you, but be careful that he does not take over your movement from the inside!

As the Republic of Vietnam, you have a big brother too. He will help you build a strong Army, control the country, and kill the Communists, but at what cost to your traditional way of governing? Should you fight hard with the forces and resources that you have, or leave that to the US and just focus on strengthening your political hold?

As North Vietnam, you have friends feeding you resources as well. But you must see to funneling them southward through a well-developed logistical trail, then decide which moment is right for your painstakingly assembled forces to venture from the relative safety of Laos and Cambodia to control the South.

As the United States, you have the firepower and the mobility. A certain number of US casualties is to be expected, but too many will break the public’s support for South Vietnam and the War. And your air power and incursions into Laos or Cambodia can help or turn counterproductive. Together with the ARVN, the fight is winnable—so long as your so-called friendlies do not undermine the plan!

As with earlier COIN Series volumes, players of Fire in the Lake will face difficult strategic decisions with each card. The innovative game system smoothly integrates political, cultural, and economic affairs with military and other violent and non-violent operations and capabilities. Terror and subversion, pacification, infiltration, NVA long-range bombardment, road and river ambushes, VC front taxation, aid diversion, US bombing of the Trail, Montagnard recruitment, ARVN Ranger raids, and many more options are on the menu. Flow charts are at hand to run any faction missing a player—solitaire, 2-player, 3-player, or 4-player experiences are equally supported. Ride on up the river.
Players: 1-4 (includes full solitaire system)
Map: Area Movement
Timescale: 1-2 years per Campaign between Coups
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by baelthazar »

I was interested in Cuba Libre, but this one may be the one I finally get! I had kicked around Andean Abyss during the sale, but I just don't know much about that conflict and thus the subject matter left me cold. Now Vietnam... oh yeah!
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

I haven't played Andean Abyss, but Labyrinth is a good design, and the solitaire rules actually manage to produce a very compelling narrative.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Damn, I've kind of decided I want to pick up Andean Abyss, but I'm kicking myself that I didn't decide to get it during the sale. Boo on me. I can get it from CSI for $57 shipped, which isn't too bad, I guess.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

Chaz wrote:Damn, I've kind of decided I want to pick up Andean Abyss, but I'm kicking myself that I didn't decide to get it during the sale. Boo on me. I can get it from CSI for $57 shipped, which isn't too bad, I guess.
It looks like someone has posted a like-new copy at the BGG marketplace for just $38.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by malchior »

I have all the COIN games released so far and they just charged for A Distant Plain so that should be heading my way. I am playing a Solitaire game of Andean Abyss right now and it is a pretty solid game (so far).

Is there any interest in a Vassal game of any of these? I really only have one local friend who plays these type of games and we tend to play Twilight Struggle. We've played through Labyrinth twice but our schedules never seem to match up so games are far and few between.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by SpaceLord »

Andean Abyss is a fantastic game, the passing/active mechanic is brilliant. Looking forward to more games in the series. :wub:
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by baelthazar »

I hear that Cuba Libre! is a shorter and less intense experience. That may be exactly what I need.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by malchior »

baelthazar wrote:I hear that Cuba Libre! is a shorter and less intense experience. That may be exactly what I need.
I heard that too and am looking forward to it.

I love this series so I have a order in for Cuba Libre and Fire in the Lake. And then an order for Fields of Fire Vol. II. I hope they all don't charge at once. :shock:
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

With the game release coming in the next few weeks, the designers have posted an hour-long tutorial video for Fire in the Lake.

It's great to see the game in action, although some of the components are still playtest materials rather than final production stuff. The video also seems to assume that you are already at least passingly familiar with the COIN series.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Is it really that soon? I guess I should figure out if I want this or not. I mean, I do want it, but I suspect it won't really get played, so there's probably no reason for me to own it.

Why can't some rich uncle give me all four COIN games so I can have them all without feeling guilty about it? Is that too much to ask?
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Talk to Uncle hepcat. He's collecting the COIN series.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Zarathud wrote:Talk to Uncle hepcat. He's collecting the COIN series.
I dunno, he always seemed like the creepy uncle that never got invited to family gatherings, but always showed up anyway.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by $iljanus »

A little bit of a derail but after reading this I decided to order A Distant Plain from GMT. Always wanted to try a COIN game and I liked the setting. Right now it's a P500 game so it will probably take a little while to fill but it's not like I don't have any games to play these days. The price was nice though at $54.00.

Hmm...Fire in the Lake is only $55 at the moment and it definitely passed the P500 stage.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by baelthazar »

Chaz wrote:Is it really that soon? I guess I should figure out if I want this or not. I mean, I do want it, but I suspect it won't really get played, so there's probably no reason for me to own it.

Why can't some rich uncle give me all four COIN games so I can have them all without feeling guilty about it? Is that too much to ask?
I have a copy of Cuba Libre that I will likely be selling. If you are interested, I can give you a better deal than the BGG rabble. I liked it in theory, but I never had a gaming group to play it, so I never got to actually experience the game!
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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$iljanus wrote:A little bit of a derail but after reading this I decided to order A Distant Plain from GMT. Always wanted to try a COIN game and I liked the setting. Right now it's a P500 game so it will probably take a little while to fill but it's not like I don't have any games to play these days. The price was nice though at $54.00.

Hmm...Fire in the Lake is only $55 at the moment and it definitely passed the P500 stage.
FITL will be out this summer while ADP doesn't yet have a slot in the reprint schedule. I don't think it will be available again until sometime next year.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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baelthazar wrote:
Chaz wrote:Is it really that soon? I guess I should figure out if I want this or not. I mean, I do want it, but I suspect it won't really get played, so there's probably no reason for me to own it.

Why can't some rich uncle give me all four COIN games so I can have them all without feeling guilty about it? Is that too much to ask?
I have a copy of Cuba Libre that I will likely be selling. If you are interested, I can give you a better deal than the BGG rabble. I liked it in theory, but I never had a gaming group to play it, so I never got to actually experience the game!
Yeah, keep me posted. Finances aren't super free, but I might be able to swing it depending on the price.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Holman wrote:
$iljanus wrote:A little bit of a derail but after reading this I decided to order A Distant Plain from GMT. Always wanted to try a COIN game and I liked the setting. Right now it's a P500 game so it will probably take a little while to fill but it's not like I don't have any games to play these days. The price was nice though at $54.00.

Hmm...Fire in the Lake is only $55 at the moment and it definitely passed the P500 stage.
FITL will be out this summer while ADP doesn't yet have a slot in the reprint schedule. I don't think it will be available again until sometime next year.

That's okay, I can wait...I think...(tries not to read more about Fire in the Lake in the meantime)
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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$iljanus wrote: (tries not to read more about Fire in the Lake in the meantime)
The rules and playbook are up over the GMT website.

:twisted:
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Holman wrote:
$iljanus wrote: (tries not to read more about Fire in the Lake in the meantime)
The rules and playbook are up over the GMT website.

:twisted:
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by malchior »

My copy showed up yesterday and I'm looking through the rules finally. I'm looking forward to getting a game in with my usual crew (hopefully in the next few weeks).

*Edit: I've also never tried Vassal but I'm open to giving it a try if anyone has the aptitude for it and wants to give this game a go.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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I know my copy came in a week or so ago, because there was a GMT-looking box that my wife vanished immediately. I'll get to see it at Christmas.

That hasn't stopped me from pulling down the VASSAL module and reading partway through the rules. I'm slowly watching a demo video for Cuba Libre to start to get a handle on the COIN system, and I'll probably step through the FitL tutorial on VASSAL next.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Chaz wrote:I know my copy came in a week or so ago, because there was a GMT-looking box that my wife vanished immediately. I'll get to see it at Christmas.

That hasn't stopped me from pulling down the VASSAL module and reading partway through the rules. I'm slowly watching a demo video for Cuba Libre to start to get a handle on the COIN system, and I'll probably step through the FitL tutorial on VASSAL next.
I'd be happy to do a Vassal game with you sometime, though I suppose that should wait until Christmas time.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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El Guapo wrote:
Chaz wrote:I know my copy came in a week or so ago, because there was a GMT-looking box that my wife vanished immediately. I'll get to see it at Christmas.

That hasn't stopped me from pulling down the VASSAL module and reading partway through the rules. I'm slowly watching a demo video for Cuba Libre to start to get a handle on the COIN system, and I'll probably step through the FitL tutorial on VASSAL next.
I'd be happy to do a Vassal game with you sometime, though I suppose that should wait until Christmas time.
For moralistic reasons? Hell with that, the physical version is in my house, I'm morally covered. If it's because we'd rather play with the AI running the other factions, then that's trickier, since those flow charts are still in the box that I can't open.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Chaz wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Chaz wrote:I know my copy came in a week or so ago, because there was a GMT-looking box that my wife vanished immediately. I'll get to see it at Christmas.

That hasn't stopped me from pulling down the VASSAL module and reading partway through the rules. I'm slowly watching a demo video for Cuba Libre to start to get a handle on the COIN system, and I'll probably step through the FitL tutorial on VASSAL next.
I'd be happy to do a Vassal game with you sometime, though I suppose that should wait until Christmas time.
For moralistic reasons? Hell with that, the physical version is in my house, I'm morally covered. If it's because we'd rather play with the AI running the other factions, then that's trickier, since those flow charts are still in the box that I can't open.
Kind of. Also I wasn't sure if it would be weird / anti-climactic to open it / receive it after you've played it, but I agree that it's good moralistically because you have a copy that's been paid for.

The AI's an issue, though we could just recruit a couple more people.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Eh, I know when I put it on my wish list that it was very likely that most of my plays of it were going to be on VASSAL, and playing the physical version would be a rarity. The options would be each player controlling two factions (pretty sure there's guidelines for this in the rules) or getting more players. Of course, all of this is based on the premise that we could actually schedule time to play, which is a tricky proposition these days.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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I don't think scheduling would be that hard - I'm available most evenings by around 9:30 pm. The key virtue of online gaming is that travel time is not an issue so 9:30 start times on weeknights are viable, and it's easy to break up gaming into more than one session as necessary (simple save and reload, so you don't need to reconstruct board set ups).
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Yeah, see, I'm in bed by 9:30 on weeknights is the problem. 5am wake ups are way harder if I don't.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Chaz wrote:Yeah, see, I'm in bed by 9:30 on weeknights is the problem. 5am wake ups are way harder if I don't.
Fixable problem! Just go to bed by 11:30, and then wake up at 7 am. Problem solved.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Brilliant! I'll tell my wife to not wake me up when she gets up at 5am. I'm sure this will work great!
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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Chaz wrote:Brilliant! I'll tell my wife to not wake me up when she gets up at 5am. I'm sure this will work great!
Ah, but here's the perfect part. Your wife can also sleep from 11:30 - 7.

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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

I'd definitely be interested in a VASSAL game of FITL! Now that I've read the rules a couple of times, I think I get it.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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I finally got through the rules for this, set it up, and am sloooowly working through a solo game running all four factions. Since I've never played a COIN game before, this is basically like jumping into the deep end, because there are a metric ton of options for each action. Still, I'm getting a handle on things, and it's fascinating.

Now I think I want one of the shorter, smaller COIN games. I'm either Cuba Libre or Andean Abyss would fit the bill. I'm leaning toward AA, just because it sounds like maybe CL is a little too linear? Dunno. There's also a BGG seller who's got AA for $50 with local pick up in Boston, so that's a thing too.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by hepcat »

Seppe owns this and STILL has not brought it to one of our game days. Inexcusable! I demand justice!

If you're looking for a shorter, simpler COIN game, your only real option is Cuba Libre. Andean Abyss may be shorter or less complex than Fire in the Lake or A Distant Plain, but it's still an all day endeavor in many cases. I can get in a game of Cuba Libre in 2 to 3 hours, tops (hell, sometimes even 90 minutes). Plus, it's much simpler to teach. I think of Cuba Libra almost as a learning tool for the entire COIN series at this point.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

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That's what I'd heard too, but then I'd also heard some stuff about CL being almost too simple. I'll probably still grab it when it finally comes back in print, but that $50 copy of AA is just sitting there...

I'm very interested to see what they do with the upcoming Gallic and American Revolution games. It seems like they'd have to be a little simpler than the modern-era ones just by virtue of not having as much modern tech available. Then there's the one set in Ireland in the '20s that I think my heritage demands I buy.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by hepcat »

Cuba Libre is hardly TOO simple. If you want a game that you can use to ease people into the COIN series and that can be played in under 3 hours, Cuba Libre is your only choice. But it most assuredly does have all the elements of a COIN game.

I'm going to preorder Gallic Wars, I've decided. It sounds fantastic. It's way outside their usual realm of historical subjects, but I really hope they make it work.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by Holman »

It's guess it's not technically a COIN game, but this seems like a good place for Volko-related news.

GMT has announced Labyrinth II: The Awakening, 2010-?.
LABYRINTH II: The Awakening, 2010 - ? expands on LABYRINTH: The War on Terror, 2001 - ?, a 1-2 player card-driven boardgame simulating at the strategic level the ongoing bid by Islamic extremists to impose their brand of religious rule on the Muslim world. The expansion continues where LABYRINTH left off adding new rules and cards to cover the last five years of history. Included are new mechanics to simulate the grass roots political movements of the Arab Spring and the resulting Civil Wars. LABYRINTH II provides 90 all new event cards, additional markers, cubes and cylinders, and 7 new scenarios, including 2 that are playable to conclusion in 7 turns or less.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by hepcat »

I am not a fan of Labyrinth. It's just way too fiddly for my taste.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by El Guapo »

I'm a big fan of Labyrinth myself (partly because of the subject matter), so I'm definitely in on this. I like that they're adding a local civil war dynamic.

Of course any expansion risks adding too many mechanics, but we'll see.
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Re: GMT announces Fire in the Lake (Vietnam COIN game)

Post by hepcat »

To be fair, I played it solo only. That was enough to turn me off the game mechanics. However, it's probably best to preface my "ewww" face with that disclaimer.
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