[Kickstarter] Shadows of Brimstone

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:34 am

I didn't kickstart this because I don't kickstart anything, but the positive impressions from Gencon have got me interested in how it turned out. I'm just hoping that buying one box is enough to have an enjoyable game. I usually avoid games that require a bunch of add-on purchases to really shine. So, basically, I'm pulling for you crazy kickstarter kids!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:55 am

Depending on the individual sharing info, this game is either really, really good or it's the Second Coming (tm). The only knock I've read is that there is some repetition with a single box, but these are people that have played a dozen games in the last week. Because that's totally how everyone does things.

I've very excited to get my hands on it and give it a whirl. Our group has yet to really find a good "dungeon crawl" with enough meat to keep things interesting. We tried all the D&D games but they're a little too simplistic. Descent 2 was fun for a while, but playing the Overlord is no easy task and we noticed quite a swing in difficulty depending on the number of heroes.

Thematically, this game speaks to me and I'm hoping that the overall design works well for cooperative play.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:30 am

Smoove_B wrote:I don't buy that at all. If they've been holding off the last month on simply sending out a survey to get mailing addresses, that's absurd. Plus, it's in their best interest to ship as much as possible at once - otherwise it will be the death of a thousand cuts for shipping multiple waves.

What has me wondering is the repeated comments that they're losing money on this whole KS project as they underestimated how much production would cost - in particular for the mine cart level. If they've been holding off because they're trying to figure out how to deal with being unable to fulfill all those KS unlocked extras...trouble.

Yeah, that would be terrible. I'm going to stay positive, because there is no reason to worry yet. I have a feeling they are banking on good retail sales to offset some of the lost money on KS extras. But do remember that many of the extras will also be available as retail sales, as there were not that many KS exclusives.

At this point, I would be happy with my core boxes. I'm not sure why they haven't started shipping, but they need to make a post-GenCon statement to assuage people's curiosity. I wouldn't care so much, but this is my second most anticipated KS project (the first being Cthulhu Wars).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:47 pm

Made the mistake of criticizing them on BGG and got shouted down because apparently I'm a savage for expecting an update regarding the pledge manager. I wonder how many copies of the game they sold at PAX this weekend?

I really think Flying Frog likes the money they raised but I'm not quite sure they fully appreciated that part of a successful Kickstarter is actually communicating with the backers on a semi-frequent basis -- at least in my experience with enjoyable KS. For a while it was "Well, at the end of July they told us the boat was leaving the first week of August..." then it was "Well, now they're at GenCon so don't expect an update..." then, "Well, now they're back from GenCon and tired..." which transitions into "Well...now it's PAX so they're busy..."

I think it's also awesome that you can pre-order copies of the game at CSI for $66 right now. Order both and get them shipped free for less than my $150 pledge. But I'm sure CSI won't get them in before the backers do, right?

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:13 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Made the mistake of criticizing them on BGG and got shouted down because apparently I'm a savage for expecting an update regarding the pledge manager. I wonder how many copies of the game they sold at PAX this weekend?

I really think Flying Frog likes the money they raised but I'm not quite sure they fully appreciated that part of a successful Kickstarter is actually communicating with the backers on a semi-frequent basis -- at least in my experience with enjoyable KS. For a while it was "Well, at the end of July they told us the boat was leaving the first week of August..." then it was "Well, now they're at GenCon so don't expect an update..." then, "Well, now they're back from GenCon and tired..." which transitions into "Well...now it's PAX so they're busy..."

I think it's also awesome that you can pre-order copies of the game at CSI for $66 right now. Order both and get them shipped free for less than my $150 pledge. But I'm sure CSI won't get them in before the backers do, right?

I do believe KS backers are getting a lot of extras (at least, that is the plan), so that would make up the difference between that KS and the CSI prices. I'm also a little miffed that they did not at least give a short "we missed our shipping window" update. They certainly could be a bit more forward. Despite being shot down on BGG, don't think you are alone in your criticisms.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:27 pm

Meanwhile I get photos of the boat Xia is on, its GPS position in the ocean, and a detailed estimate of when he expects it to arrive for shipping. Clearly that's above and beyond what any Kickstarter should provide but we're looking at a over a month now since the last SoB update with respect to where we all stand.

I totally get there could be delays, problems with customs - whatever. But I refuse to believe they don't know any more than they did on 7/22.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:34 pm

Are they handling orders internally? That's my guess.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:37 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Meanwhile I get photos of the boat Xia is on, its GPS position in the ocean, and a detailed estimate of when he expects it to arrive for shipping. Clearly that's above and beyond what any Kickstarter should provide but we're looking at a over a month now since the last SoB update with respect to where we all stand.

I totally get there could be delays, problems with customs - whatever. But I refuse to believe they don't know any more than they did on 7/22.

So SoB is being handled by the Myth folks?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:46 pm

I know it's cool to be down on Myth, but I have their game in my hand, pretty close to when they estimated I would. You can definitely give them grief over the manual but in terms of a product? It's exactly what they said I was getting.

Meanwhile, Flying Frog is selling copies of SoB at GenCon and PAX.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:48 pm

Zarathud wrote:Are they handling orders internally? That's my guess.

I think so, yes. They also said earlier this year they were working on the pledge manager but then told someone at GenCon that the company working on their pledge manager wasn't done yet. All the information we have is coming 3rd hand from people that are speaking to them at GenCon or PAX. How difficult is it to blast out a 5 sentence message to all the backers with a an update? Really, I don't expect them to certify it will be in my hands by 9/15 but anything at this point would be helpful.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:33 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I know it's cool to be down on Myth, but I have their game in my hand, pretty close to when they estimated I would. You can definitely give them grief over the manual but in terms of a product? It's exactly what they said I was getting.

It's not about the timing, it's about the incredibly poor communication.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:38 pm

They were not great with the European shipping and anything regarding Wave 1.5 or Wave 2 (whatever we're in right now), but they were light years ahead of what Flying Frog is doing right now. I'm nearly certain if the guys from Myth rolled into GenCon and started selling copies of the game before even sending out a pledge manager to the backers...there would have been actual riots. But because it's Flying Frog and they have a dozen other games out this will just magically sort itself out or something.

As much as I like to think I don't have expectations, when I get spoiled by an above average Kickstarter project (SEE: Xia or Doom and Bloom's Survival - a game I backed in May and has been in my hands for a week now) these below average Kickstarters really stand out. As a backer, I don't think it's unreasonable to get a once a month, "Hey, here's where we are..." update. I'm not a customer. I'm not even a fan. I'm a guy that handed over capital so you could make your game.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:58 am

I think I agree with Smoove here. I was not overly miffed by them selling limited quantities at GenCon or Pax, until we went several weeks past those Cons with no word at all about the progress. Actually, communication throughout has been poor - the sudden revelation that the figures need to be assembled close to the end of this process is a good example.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:49 pm

Pledge manager this week! Shipping starts next week! Finally!

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:05 pm

hentzau wrote:Pledge manager this week! Shipping starts next week! Finally!

I wonder how they are going to choose/prioritize shipping? They said this process could take months to finish, so who knows. Also, how are they going to get my address? If the pledge manager is for getting the addresses, that doesn't give us much time to think about add-ons.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:47 pm

Meanwhile, Arcadia Quest by CMoN looks like it will start shipping on Monday!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:14 am

Shadows...pledge manager...so many...don't know...help!!!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:08 am

Helpful list for those of us in at the Outlaw level. I had forgotten I was getting all of this stuff, and was actually looking at buying some of the same things over again. Glad I researched!

Both Core Games Both Core Games x1 - (incl)
Kickstarter Exclusive Outlaw Hero Class (includes game miniature Male Outlaw) x1 - (incl)
8" x 10" Shadows of Brimstone Art Print - Signed x1 - (incl)
Shadows of Brimstone Art Book x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Gunslingers - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Gunslingers - Male #2 (Variant Mini) x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Ranchers - Male x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Ranchers - Female #2 (Variant Mini) x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Law Men - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Preacher / Nun - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Indian Scouts - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Bandidos / Bandida - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Bandidos / Bandida - Male #2 (Variant Mini) x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: U.S. Marshals - Female x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Saloon Girl / Piano Player - Male x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Saloon Girl / Piano Player - Female #2 (Variant Mini) x1 - (incl)
Miniatures: Outlaws - Female x1 - (incl)
Hero Class: Prospector (includes game miniatures: Male Prospector and Female Prospector) x1 - (incl)
Hero Class: Orphan (includes game miniatures: Male Orphan and Female Orphan) x1 - (incl)
Hero Class: Drifter (includes game miniatures: Male Drifter and Female Drifter) x1 - (incl)
Allies: Blacksmith x1 - (incl)
Allies: Faithful Dog x1 - (incl)
Allies: Pack Mule x1 - (incl)
Allies: Henchmen (Set of 3) x1 - (incl)
Scafford Gang (Set of 6) x1 - (incl)
Custodians (Set of 3, Targa Plateau) x1 - (incl)
Trederran Raiders (Set of 6, Trederra) x1 - (incl)
Undead Outlaw Boss: Undead Gunslinger x1 - (incl)
Undead Outlaw Gang (Set of 6) x1 - (incl)
Serpentmen Boss: Shaman (Jargono) x1 - (incl)
Serpentmen Warriors (Set of 6, Jargono) x1 - (incl)
Dark Stone Hydra (XL-Sized) x1 - (incl)
Void Sorcerers (Set of 3, Void) x1 - (incl)
Void Hounds (Set of 3, Void) x1 - (incl)
Beli'al (XXL-Sized, Caverns of Cynder) x1 - (incl)
Boss: Flesh Stalker (Derelict Ship) x1 - (incl)
Scourge Rats (Set of 12) x1 - (incl)
Harvestors (Set of 3) x1 - (incl)
Frontier Bandits (Set of 6) x1 - (incl)
OtherWorld Expansion: Caverns of Cynder (includes 3 Lava Men) x1 - (incl)
Terrain Hazards: Targa Plateau Dark Stone Pylons (Set of 2, Targa) x1 - (incl)
Expanded Frontier Town Expansion x1 - (incl)
Badlands Expedition (15 New Cards) x1 - (incl)
Fire and Brimstone (15 Cynder Encounter Cards) x1 - (incl)
Murky Confrontations (15 Jargono Encounter Cards) x1 - (incl)
Ancient Terrors (15 Targa Encounter Cards) x1 - (incl)
Dead Man's Bounty (15 Gear Cards) x1 - (incl)
Treasures of the Void (15 Mine Artifact Cards) x1 - (incl)
Blood Money (15 Mine Encounter Cards) x1 - (incl)
Dark Omens (15 Mine Encounter Cards) x1 - (incl)

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:47 am

Also, to make sure you're clear -- we're getting the two base games in the next few months. I'm guessing...December. Everything else other than the paint and a few odds and ends won't be shipped until August of 2015. That's a hell of a long time to throw them more money, IMHO.

I'm sticking with my Outlaw pledge and if the game wows me over the next *year*, at least I know I can pick up the stuff people are getting in the Minecart level sometime in the Fall of 2015 at retail.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:58 am

Sure, well aware of the lengths of time. Still trying to maximize the value if I can.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:20 am

Yeah, I really was on the fence and I thought long and hard this morning about adding those paint sets and maybe even upping to a Minecart. But that's a lot of money to spend on something that won't show up until a year from now...and I still have no idea whether or not I like it. That was my mistake with Zombicide and now I have boxes of unopened figures and games that will never get touched.

Also, stop trying to convince me to upgrade.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:22 am

No way I can upgrade to Minecart. My wife would flip.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:22 pm

But what if it made you happy? Like truly and deeply happy? She can't fault you for that.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:29 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Also, to make sure you're clear -- we're getting the two base games in the next few months. I'm guessing...December. Everything else other than the paint and a few odds and ends won't be shipped until August of 2015.

You could always pay $40 to have them ship to you in "Wave 1.5."

My feelings on that aside, I did exactly what Smoove did and held off on getting too much extra because it will be a year before we get it. I did spring for the Succubus and the Derelict Ship, both of which don't go out until Wave 2. I had already pledged with the intention of getting the two paint sets and the Darkstone in drawstring bag, so those were added as well (and I guess will be shipping with the core sets).

They say they are going to get these started this week. I hope they don't decide to send them by the order they sent out the PM, since I didn't get my PM until this morning. I hope we get these by October, rather than later.

At this point, it is a race to see if Arcadia Quest or SoB makes it first!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:34 pm

baelthazar wrote:They say they are going to get these started this week. I hope they don't decide to send them by the order they sent out the PM, since I didn't get my PM until this morning. I hope we get these by October, rather than later.

I'm guessing they'll go out in the order in which they're submitted back to them for fulfillment. What's also awesome is that there's no turning back. Unlike the MERCS Recon PM, once you hit verify your order and submit, it's locked. So even if I change my mind later tonight...too late. I submitted it this morning and it's now locked.

So..uhh...yeah.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:34 pm

I just went with my base Outlaw level. I'll take the money I would have spent on add-ons and will buy some additional Foundry figures for my Dead Man's Hand game. I can get use out of those immediately!

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:29 pm

Flying Frog Productions wrote:Though we will be steadily sending out more and more Wave 1 packages every day, it will likely take a couple of months to get all of the nearly 5,000 KS Backers their Wave 1 shipments sent out.

A couple of months.

Jesus.

I'm a patient man. But damn.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:10 am

Definitely looks like a pre-order system using existing resources. Then again, their estimated delivery date was August 2014. They're only going to be a couple of months late.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:28 am

hentzau wrote:
Flying Frog Productions wrote:Though we will be steadily sending out more and more Wave 1 packages every day, it will likely take a couple of months to get all of the nearly 5,000 KS Backers their Wave 1 shipments sent out.
A couple of months.

Jesus.

I'm a patient man. But damn.

And they specifically stated that they don't even have all the core boxes from China needed to fulfill all the KS backers.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:41 am

baelthazar wrote:
hentzau wrote:
Flying Frog Productions wrote:Though we will be steadily sending out more and more Wave 1 packages every day, it will likely take a couple of months to get all of the nearly 5,000 KS Backers their Wave 1 shipments sent out.
A couple of months.

Jesus.

I'm a patient man. But damn.
And they specifically stated that they don't even have all the core boxes from China needed to fulfill all the KS backers.

Yeah. I was too depressed at that thought to even post it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:00 pm

baelthazar wrote:And they specifically stated that they don't even have all the core boxes from China needed to fulfill all the KS backers.

Well, as long as they had that palette of games to sell at Gen Con and Pax Prime, that's all that matters right? Getting the games out for conventions so people can buy copies and spread the good word as to how awesome the game is.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
baelthazar wrote:And they specifically stated that they don't even have all the core boxes from China needed to fulfill all the KS backers.
Well, as long as they had that palette of games to sell at Gen Con and Pax Prime, that's all that matters right? Getting the games out for conventions so people can buy copies and spread the good word as to how awesome the game is.

I think it is pretty clear now that this KS has been poorly managed and their lack of experience with PR shines through dramatically. I'm not optimistic they can deliver on all their promised extras.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:06 pm

...and yet, not a word of it over on BGG. The fact that it's going to take 2+ months to deliver the goods and that there wasn't enough delivered to them from China to fulfill the Wave 1 order? No problem. This is Flying Frog and they're super-terrific.

But a Myth figure shows up made out of metal instead of plastic and there's 37 different threads about it.

This might turn out to be a fantastic game, but I do hope for their sake that backers get copies before retail outlets start selling them.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Some folks over on BGG are reporting of getting shipping notification.

Who's going to be the first OO'er???

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:33 pm

My pledge manager was locked in hours after it came though to me, but I have the worst luck. I'll certainly share if something shows up, but I've more or less assumed it'll be late October.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:29 pm

Nothing for me so far. Like Smoove, I'm not counting on my luck. But I'm hopeful for a shipping notification Monday! I think my backer # is like 1085 or something, not that that has anything to do with anything. I have a feeling they are shipping to people with high pledge amounts first.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:45 pm

If they truly have started shipping boxes (and not just checking in with UPS to let them know to be ready for a shipment), I have to believe people that locked in their pledges are up first. Mainly because the stupid pledge manager is open until Next Sunday night. Logic would suggest those people that locked in are being packed and shipped first, but who the hell knows how that's being ordered either. If nothing else, I do hope this experience helps them to realize they are game designers, not a shipping and logistics hub the next time they have an idea to use Kickstarter to raise some fat stacks.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:57 pm

Well, the fit is starting to hit the shan (er...) over at the KS. Their last update promising "Shipping News" has been met with the fairly reasonable supposition that the non-US backers are going to get the shaft. The same thing happened for CMON and Arcadia Quest. I'm not sure how I feel about this sort of stuff, we have had to wait months or years in the US for games available in Europe to be available here (wasn't Eclipse like this). But this is a different situation, since they "invested" to get the entire thing published.

At any rate, it doesn't look like any of the cool kids here have gotten their shipping notification. Blah, I hate waiting.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:16 pm

Oh yeah? After getting my hand-slapped over less than favorable comments for this KS I stopped reading posts about this game on BGG. Seems like the general rule for non-domestics is that shipping and delivery is a nightmare. All I know is that if I ever create a KS game, it's domestic shipping only....unless it's a deck of cards. I can't even imagine the logistics associated with shipping giant boxes full of tiles or plastic miniatures. It has to be a nightmare -- and ridiculously expensive.

Maybe I'll wade back over into to fray to see if the glorious defenders of Flying Frog are still impressed with everything that was accomplished and what everyone will be getting (at some point).

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sat Oct 04, 2014 6:50 pm

Smoove_B wrote:Oh yeah? After getting my hand-slapped over less than favorable comments for this KS I stopped reading posts about this game on BGG. Seems like the general rule for non-domestics is that shipping and delivery is a nightmare. All I know is that if I ever create a KS game, it's domestic shipping only....unless it's a deck of cards. I can't even imagine the logistics associated with shipping giant boxes full of tiles or plastic miniatures. It has to be a nightmare -- and ridiculously expensive.

Maybe I'll wade back over into to fray to see if the glorious defenders of Flying Frog are still impressed with everything that was accomplished and what everyone will be getting (at some point).

Note, this was on the KS comments page and not on BGG, although I think some rumblings have started over there with the RoW crowd (Rest of the World).

I miss the transparency of Steve Jackson Games. Say what you will about Ogre, but we got updates multiple times a week on how many were shipped, how they shipped, where they were shipping, and how many remained.