[Boardgame] Eldritch Horror

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:43 pm

To be fair, I do find that the majority of people on BGG who post in game forums are really very helpful and nice. But there are the power gamers who always feel they know more about game design than the actual makers of the game in question. Then they start telling everyone that the general consensus is that the game is "broken" and offer up their own rule changes.

That or they feel the need to "speed up" a game through variants.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:44 pm

Yeah, there are a lot of helpful people on there. So if I have a rules question, I go look for one of them. But I don't go and read forums there regularly like I used to, cuz the overall vibe is kinda weird and creepy. Too many people tracking their plays meticulously, and WAY too many pictures of women at a game board just to show off that the poster knows a woman, and wanted to get thumbs from people. Not to mention the really creepy comments about those pictures.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:36 pm

MythicalMino wrote:Man, this game just keeps shoving me in its mouth, chews me up, then spits me out. I have played 5 games so far (2 vs. Azathoth, 3 vs. Cthulu), and I have lost each one...although, I thought I might have had a shot in my game last night vs. Cthulu...that is, until Cthylla showed up. Silas Marsh went crazy when he confronted her...and in that same turn, the jazz player, too, went crazy, waking up Cthulu, causing both characters to be eliminated (I am assuming I played that correctly, since you bring in a new investigator at the end of the Mythos Phase, which Cthulu was awake before that point in the turn...but honestly, that doesn't matter, I would have lost regardless within a turn or so).

The game is truly awesome, and has this epic feeling each time I have played it. Very tense, and sometimes, it is very difficult to decide exactly where to go and what to do (rest? or should I risk it and try to shut down that gate that is going to cause the doom tracker to advance? Or maybe I need to try to get that weapon? Or I really need to get to that clue...what to do, what to do?)

Just a great boardgame.

I had a very similar experience with Cthulhu. Although I had not managed to solve even the first mystery by the time that he arrived and devoured the world. My game against Yog-Sothoth yester was even more evil. I was playing solo, and my two characters (the Shaman and the Expedition Leader) managed to get two mysteries solved with low failure rates. The first mystery was killing the Dunwich Horror, a feat which we accomplished through the dramatic deployment of some dynamite and a spirit dagger. The second mystery wasn't too bad either, I had to properly solve research quests. The final mystery seemed a cake walk, it hinged around properly casting spells. But time needed to prepare for the Dunwhich Horror and solving the second mystery had pushed the doom counter near the end. We managed to succeed in finishing the parameters of the third mystery (but it isn't "solved" until after the Mythos phase). We had but one doom counter left. The Mythos card, which I do not remember, activated a condition that pushed the Shaman over the line, mortally wounding her. The doom dropped to 0. Which means that Yog-Sothoth woke up, forcing me to finish his final mystery, despite having succeeded in solving three mysteries. A number of bad Yog-Sothoth encounters pushed the doom even further, spawned gates, and ended the universe.

It was a great loss, and quite memorable.

I succumbed and ordered the minis. It was expensive, but I think they will be worth it.

I will say one thing, after playing EH solo yesterday and the day before, I would not say it was favorite game of 2013. It may indeed be my favorite game of all. That's right, I think Twilight Imperium has fallen off its throne. Despite my love of Lords of Waterdeep, EH just hits all cylinders.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:39 pm

This thread, particularly the last several posts are exactly the reason I avoid BGG.

Some BBG savant wrote:I've been waiting for someone to put up a post like this, if only to reveal some of these conceited and supercilious game designers as the Emperors with No Clothes they turn out to be.

I can scarcely count the number of games I've examined over the years that appeared interesting, only then to read the rules and discover errors, flaws and omissions great enough to drive a truck through.

Consequently I stick mainly to the PnP games on BGG instead of the games sold by companies: At least if the PnP games prove unacceptable, I'm not out any money on the deal ...

I get less mad when I envision the Comic Book Guy saying it.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:59 pm

I was called out by a hardcore wargamer when I asked a question about 1812: The Invasion of Canada that I missed in the rulebook. He used me as an example of a lazy type of gamer that refuses to look things up and just ruins boardgamegeek. This pissed me off as I honestly just missed the rule when reading through the manual. I then held him up as an example of the type of gamer that gives BGG a bad name at times.

Eventually the designer of the game himself posted that he didn't really think it was appropriate to try and intimidate and chastise players who asked questions about a game in a rules forum for said game. He was of the mind that folks that did so were ultimately going to scare away people who would like to play his games, but were now under the impression that they had to be very careful about what questions they might ask so that they weren't yelled at for it.

The guy eventually sent me a private message telling me we should just end the argument and that I should publicly apologize for "escalating it" (which was done simply by fighting back).

I ignored him.

Jerks exist everywhere but I've found that the majority of users on BGG are pretty decent about answering questions or respecting a player's opinion.

...except for that Mythicalmino person. They're just mean spirited!

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:36 pm

Just to renew your good will towards man, the response to my Eldritch Horror mini-review (copypasta from the one I wrote here) has been very positive and encouraging. While there are many Comic Book Guy and Hardcore Wargaming Grognards (btw, NEVER get into the "wargame"/"not a wargame" debate) out there, many of the BGG users are like us, good-natured, and fun loving.

MythicalMino · Post by **MythicalMino** » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:40 pm

Came closest yet to winning, vs. Yog-Sothoth last night. Still ended up losing, though, but I was almost done with the 3rd mystery when Yog-Sothoth awoke...and it all really went downhill from there.

So far, my record:

Azathoth (0-2)
Cthulu (0-3)
Yog-Sothoth (0-2)

My next game is all set up vs. Shub Niggurath...he looks pretty rough, also, though.

The only "negative" I can give about the game really is the lack of Encounter and Mystery Cards. I wish the Ancient Ones had at least 5 Mystery Cards, instead of 4...and the Encounter Card decks really do seem quite thin. I know that the encounter cards will thicken up with expansions, I just hope that at least the first couple expansions will come quickly. I feel that the board itself is just right, and I really do not know how they could expand on that. Although, I think it would be kinda cool to do maybe an Expedition board...with locations for each of the expeditions...but that is really the only thing I can think of that would be kinda cool.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:08 am

FYI, CSI has this on sale for $35 today.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:43 am

MythicalMino wrote:when Yog-Sothoth awoke...and it all really went downhill from there.

That's what tends to happen when Elder Gods awaken.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:57 am

Chaz wrote:FYI, CSI has this on sale for $35 today.

It's a no brainer if you even remotely like Lovecraft.

Our 7 player game turned into a 6 player game, then into a 5 player game and eventually a 4 player game over the course of yesterday morning. But when we did get the game going, I think everyone really enjoyed it.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:01 pm

It's also available for $42 from Amazon with Prime shipping. Now that Crusoe is at the Z-Man warehouse, I'm just waiting to see how the availability shakes out before I decide whether my Amazon credit goes toward Crusoe or Eldritch.

Of course, depending on what I get for Christmas, it might wind up going toward Mario 3D World.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:27 pm

Chaz wrote:FYI, CSI has this on sale for $35 today.

You get your email about two hours faster than me.

Maybe I'll get up off my duff and put a CSI order today. This how they get me. $35 game on sale. $100 for free shipping. Therefore I need to spend another $65.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:46 pm

... And suckered into it..

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:48 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Chaz wrote:FYI, CSI has this on sale for $35 today.
You get your email about two hours faster than me.

Nah, I don't get their emails. I saw it posted over at Fortress Ameritrash.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:41 am

I was all excited when I first got Arkham Horror with Dunwich in the beginning, but one look at the game, and I couldn't get anyone to play it. I'm now gathering a fledgling gaming group who enjoyed Pandemic and similar co-op games, but I don't know if I should even try AH with them or just sell them off and go the Eldritch Horror route instead.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:06 am

LordMortis wrote:
Chaz wrote:FYI, CSI has this on sale for $35 today.
You get your email about two hours faster than me.

Maybe I'll get up off my duff and put a CSI order today. This how they get me. $35 game on sale. $100 for free shipping. Therefore I need to spend another $65.

Ugh.. I just bought a ton of stuff yesterday, so I could get this game 'on sale'. Oh well, I wanted the game, and it was a good excuse that my wife might actually understand.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:40 pm

Hep is right - no brainer for the Lovecraft fan. Chaz, I have not played Robinson Crusoe, but the complexity level of these games would be starkly different. I've read enough reviews and AARs of RC to know that the mechanics take some learning to get under your belt. EH is pretty easy to pick-up-and-play and you can teach a gaming group the rules in no time at all (largely because all they really need to know is how to make skill tests, the goal of the game, and what actions they can do on their turn). I guess it depends on your gaming group.

I should mention that I did get the FFG figures. They are quite nice, although I am certain that I could have done a better paint job. It isn't that the paint jobs are bad, just a tad simplistic (no shading). Overall, I am very happy with them and I suspect they will add much to the enjoyment of the game.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:49 pm

I'm 50/50 on the theme, I like both, she'll like Crusoe's better. My gaming group only really contains my wife with any kind of consistency, so ease of teaching isn't a huge thing. I like the idea of Eldritch, but the repeated mentions of the small size of the encounter decks means I want to hold off and see if people start finding it repetitive over multiple games. Yes, expansions could fix that problem, but I hate the "fix it with an expansion" method. Yes, I'm a Mansions of Madness owner that is annoyed that Call of the Wild basically fixed that game.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:30 am

FAQ has been released...

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:41 am

Just got this, and I will have a New Years Eve gaming day/night party. So I am sure this will hit the table at least once.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:54 am

Tried two rounds of Eldritch horror (with two investigators). Both games ended quite badly with the doom track reaching zero both times causing Azathoth to awaken. Both times, game-ending rumors started around round five or six in the mythos deck, which completely (IMHO) ruined any chances of winning. Not directly because of the actual rumor, but the fact that all focus had to switch to stopping the ongoing effect that was threatening to end the game. The first one had the expedition deck clearing out, bouncing it to a new location every time there was a reckoning and removing the current location from the deck...forever. Trying to chase it down was impossible as every single mythos phase had it reckoned -- it was like whack a mole.

I also noticed that with two investigators, the number of gates concurrently open is bananas.

The game absolutely captures the oppressive, overwhelming feeling of pending doom quite nicely. But after three attempts (once with one investigator, two with two), I have no idea how people actually win this game. It seems impossible. Even looking at the cards and potentially removing the "hard" rated ones from the mythos deck -- those weren't the ones that were killing us. I think in both cases, the ongoing rumors were actually both rated "easy".

My initial impression after a few hours is that there's just no way to do this with less than four investigators. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but that's my feeling. The cards are awesome - the flavor text is spot on. But man, what a frustrating way to spend a few hours.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:42 pm

Don't give up on it just yet. The game is going to really take off with expansions, I feel. However, even now it's a great game. You have to prioritize every event, rumor or gate in order to win though. Pay attention to the Omen Track and focus on the gates that will lower the Doom Track instead of ones that won't, for example. I've won a solo game with two investigators (playing Azzie though, so the easy level essentially) so it is possible. Although I BARELY won that one even.

I still love the game. It really feels like they've taken some mechanics from other games and added them to the mix for a fun experience. However, it can be frustratingly hard, as you say.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:15 pm

Oh, the mechanics were all great and the overall feeling was fantastic. It just seemed impossible (in all three games) to actually win with only one or two investigators on the board. The distances that needed to be covered to reach and then close gates ran against the need to solve mysteries and then deal with game-ending rumors. The first two turns of all three games I played seemed manageable, then everything went sideways.

And I know people joke about Arkham Horror the same way, but I saw it happen multiple times in Eldritch Horror -- the game knows. When I had to spawn a monster it went to the location I needed to reach. When I was traveling, gates would open behind me in cities, slowing a possible retreat. Random my ass...

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Ahem... We handily kicked Azathoth's butt on Saturday (4 players). But yes, the game can have wildly varying difficulty levels.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:11 pm

Game on its way. Probably Wednesday.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:19 pm

Thinking about strategy, I really believe that priority needs to be placed on generating and collecting clue tokens while one player works on gates. London is good for spawning more clues and it needs to be hit early IMHO. It seems that Lore and Will are used quite a bit in gate closures, so think about that when sending people out.

The big difference in difficulty comes in the random mythos deck creation. If you dealt out several rumors and few "World Fights Back" or "Twilight Lodge Aid" type events, then the game goes south quickly.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:56 pm

After so many games of cthulhu fluxx that the cards are starting to show wear, I decided it was time for gf and I to move up to this. She's very interested but also understands the basics behind lovecraft/cthulhu. The more you try to do, the greater chance you have to lose everything. I am itching to find a group so I can run a D20 game of cthulhu. It's almost like paranoia. It's a no win, no matter what you do.

*edit*

The idea is that you can go about your life blissfully ignorant about what's going on, or you can make an attempt to step in. The problem is, once you step in, there is no way out. Eventually you either succumb to the evil or the madness. Every little bit of mythos information, in the game, has a chance to make you a bit more insane. Even the smallest bit. It's rare for investigators of any sort to make it through more than a couple scenarios.

This game really sounds like it's got the idea.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:09 pm

I play Cthulhu RPGs and run Paranoia at Origins each year. Until then, I expect to get in quite a few games of Eldritch Horror.

MythicalMino · Post by **MythicalMino** » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:46 pm

my wife, my son (Jacob) and I played a 3 player game (vs. Shub-Niggurath)...and won!! We won pretty handily, also. I keep trying to think of what rules I screwed up...but I honestly cannot think of anything that I messed up.

But, it goes down as a true win. First one for Eldritch Horror.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:03 pm

About the only negatives I have seen in reviews online for this game are limited amount of cards. We shpuld have our copy in a few days. Is anyone here having a issue with limited cards?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:07 pm

I've never had an investigator live long enough to have the limited cards be a factor.

Without question it's begging for more card variety, but I think out of the box it's still quite enjoyable. The randomness of the various encounters based on your location definitely helps, but I guess if you play a number of games (10+?) you're going to start to see repetition.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:32 pm

The more players, the faster you burn through the cards. We had a 5 player game during the holidays and about 2 turns before the game ended (badly for us), we had to reshuffle one of the decks. I'm sure that more cards are in the not too distant future though. And as mentioned, out of the box there's still quite a bit of game there.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:29 pm

For the most part it will simply be the two of us so it should work out well. Thanks for the insight.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:40 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I've never had an investigator live long enough to have the limited cards be a factor.

Without question it's begging for more card variety, but I think out of the box it's still quite enjoyable. The randomness of the various encounters based on your location definitely helps, but I guess if you play a number of games (10+?) you're going to start to see repetition.

I noticed repetition, largely in the mythos cards, after about 5 games. But, given that these are events that say "check X and if pass/fail do Y" it does not bug me too much.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:37 am

Picking my copy up today, so should be able to get a couple games in. I am excited to see how it goes.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:35 pm

I played through most of a game, solo, with two investigators, against Azathoth. I lost my astronomer early due to sickness and not realizing how to get more clue counters. That was my own bad. I quickly remedied it with the investigator who stepped in.

So far I have been able to figure out any rules I didn't quite get. Except. Does the lead investigator pick a mythos card at the start of each mythos phase?

And. For Azatoth. You place a eldritch counter on the green space. Does that mean each time the omen goes over it, it spawns a gate?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:17 pm

The lead investigator does the mythos card phase. But only after everyone has done their actions and encounters. The mythos phase is the end of a round, not the beginning.

Also, some of the mythos cards cause bad things or good things to happen to only the lead investigator. That's why it's good to pass that role along at some point to another player.

As for the omen track, I believe that is correct. I don't have the game in front of me to verify though.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:30 pm

When you solve a clue, does a new one get drawn? Or do new clues only appear when a card says?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:41 pm

Markstrink wrote:When you solve a clue, does a new one get drawn? Or do new clues only appear when a card says?

I believe the only way new clues appear is through the mythos phase (one of the symbols along the top of the card will be a spyglass...which means draw and place a number of clue tokens as determined by the number of players - see the number of players reference cards for more info). There might be some that make their way onto the board through other means, but you never just replace them when they are taken.

Also, when you spend a clue token for any reason, DO NOT put it back into the clue cup with the clue tokens not yet drawn. Place it in a discard pile and only replenish the clue token cup when you are directed to draw a clue token from the cup and none are available.

Markstrink · Post by **Markstrink** » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:10 pm

The stinking sickness that you have to return to India with a clue token or two to remedy is just killer.

We did manage to get the mythos cards done correctly, which helped.

We are really enjoying the game. But we really haven't come close to winning. Which we expected.

*edit*

In our last game we started with four investigators. Tokyo ended up being a mess. A dead investigator and a open blue gate with four monsters on it. With only 4 doom left we figured we would just let them have Tokyo.