[Kickstarter] MERCS: Recon

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:11 am

Kickstarter link

Launches this Thursday, but they just put up a teaser site.

I'm a big fan of the MERCS Mini game (it's how I came to learn about the company) so this seems like a no-brainer for me. While I didn't enjoy painting the metal minis, the idea that I could use them in this game is also a big plus and based on the looks, it seems like the rules will be a mish-mosh (technical term) of Myth and the MERCS Mini rules.

Turtle · Post by **Turtle** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:20 am

Looks like it's a much more boardgame-like version of MERCs than the weird hybrid thing they had going on for the normal MERCS game.

I'm more of a miniature gamer, so I really didn't like the reliance on mats and such for the normal MERCS game, even though I really liked the models.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:42 pm

Yes, the MERCS came is fun, but it really takes a lot of my mental power to play a session. It's a streamlined version of what I've seen hardcore wargamers play, that's for sure. If can use my existing metal minis for MERCS and play solo? This is a good thing.

OP updated with link to project.

..and $22K in 8 minutes. I'd say that's a good start.

The Rocketman · Post by **The Rocketman** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:31 am

Whenever I read about one of these miniature games, I always hope it'll provide me with a genuine X-COM experience. But then I read how it's a race against the game clock again: you're not supposed to turtle, because the difficulty will steadily increase throughout the game. It's a trick many assymetric miniature games (Space Hulk, Doom...) employ in some way, as well as most other cooperative games (Lord of the Rings: the cardgame, Pandemic, Castle Ravenloft...).

I can understand the reasoning behind the use of a game clock in coop games, but I don't think every game should feature this. It would also be nice - akin to X-COM - to have a cooperative miniature skirmish game in which you can take your time to to steadily, slowly move towards an objective, without feeling the need to rush rush rush.

Not really a criticism towards this kickstarter, just a wish of mine.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:50 am

I finally watched the intro and gameplay videos and the gameplay looks really... simple. There doesn't appear to be much tactical about it. Based on what I saw in the videos, I'd rather be playing Zombicide. After playing Level 7 Omega Protocal, I don't think I could play this. I know one is a co-op and one is an overlord game, but the difference in the combat is huge. I guess that's good news. It's saving me $120.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:04 am

To me it looks like a streamlined version of the MERCS minis game --which is great since I already have a bunch of painted figures. However, the bigger sell for me is that with a copy of the rulebook and the stat cards, you can use the same figures from these boxed sets to play the much more tactical minis game. The only figure they don't seem to include with these sets would be the snipers -- which make sense as you wouldn't need those for a indoor room-to-room mission, but in theory you're getting the ability to play the tabletop miniatures version for considerably less than I had to pay to get involved (with metal figures). What I don't think they're doing a good job of explaining right now is just how different the various MERC teams are with special skills or abilities. For example the set that I use are the KemVar which includes an assassin that is killer with movement melee. My buddy plays the CCC which includes a character with a flamethrower.

There are also rules in play now where you an create "mercenary" teams with mixed factions, though I'm guessing that was just something tossed in for super hardcore players. I find playing a single faction just fine.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:59 am

I'm a little worried about the rule book. Myth is a mess. I've never had such trouble learning a game and recon worries me for that reason. I'm in for now but hopefully it doesn't suffer what myth has.

I know the rule book is up already but for me it won't help much because until I sit down to play it I won't realize how incomplete it is.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:00 pm

Of course with the Myth crossover stretch goals I am being tempted. I guess I will have Myth this week and can decide after I see it...

I do like that they have those optional solo player boards for Recon. ANy time you cater to the solo gamer you raise my interest a bit more.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:15 pm

To be clear - it's something you can solo out of the box, those $10 boards just make it easier. I'd thought I'd seen earlier that those sheets would be available as a printable .pdf (if you didn't want to pay for a $10 cardboard copy), but don't quote me on that.

I know it's crazy, but the $200 level right now is a ridiculous value if you have any interest in using the minis to play the tabletop version of the game. The idea that I'll never have to wrestle with assembling and painting the $%$^ metal figures again is glorious.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:18 pm

Chrisoc13 wrote:I'm a little worried about the rule book. Myth is a mess. I've never had such trouble learning a game and recon worries me for that reason. I'm in for now but hopefully it doesn't suffer what myth has.

The thing they have going in their favor for Recon is that it's not a new IP. With the second edition of the tabletop rules due out in August (I think), in theory the rules for this game *should* be in better shape if for no other reason than they're building off of an existing tested system. I still don't have my copy of MYTH yet (and I'm guessing it won't happen until next week), but from reading around it seems like the problems with the rules are related to poor proofreading and too many assumptions from their hardcore tabletop minis background.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:20 pm

I expect to play the next time I see hepcat. If the rules are confusing, I get to blame him for his rules explanation so this should be entertaining either way.

I liked the MERC minis and bought a few squads for Paranoia. It might be fun to see how it was supposed to play, but I am still trying to get motivated to paint 300+ zombies from Zombicide.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:07 pm

Well I'm reasonably happy with the fixes that are in for Myth up to this point. It isn't perfect but there is talk of even making replacement cards available at cost in the future. Having looked over the rules for Recon they seem to make much more sense than Myth (but Myth rules looked OK to me before I tried to play it) so I have decided to back Recon after all. I don't think I will be going for all the tabletop stuff though.

Truth is miniature cooperative board games have become one of my favorite genres recently. Between Zombicide, Galaxy Defenders and Myth I am really enjoying this style of game, and I find they are really easy games to introduce non-gamers or less experienced gamers to. Between those games I can almost always convince anyone to play without hesitation. Another plus side is that these games are great to solo. I don't game solo very often, but every now and then (a few times a month) I find it to be rather enjoyable to be able to solo a game.

Recon seems to fill a different theme than my other three games of this type too. Zombicide has broad appeal with my friends. Myth does not seem to appeal to them as much. Galaxy Defenders has been hit or miss (theme wise). Recon is more up the alley of a lot of people that would game with me (much like Zombicide is).

Between the cross overs for Myth and the itch this seems it will scratch for cooperative games for me I am actually starting to look forward to the idea of this game. Hopefully Mercs learned last time and edits the rulebook better! I won't be getting the tabletop game though, although it is only $80 more, the only tabletop game I have been into is X-wing.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:39 am

While I won't blindly defend the Myth rulebook as I do agree it's wonky, I am very confident in the MERCS system because it's not an new intellectual property. With the tabletop rules already in place, this is really just a "slimmed down" version of those rules (as near as I can tell). Since they're not creating something out of nothing, I am choosing to believe it will indeed be completely different. As someone that plays the TT game, the $200 level is insane. And the fact that they're going to allow a $100 addon to get all of the mission packs (and figures) is additionally crazy (though only really valuable once we're over $500,00 and five $25 mission packs are then available.

I'm excited. I love the way my metal painted KemVar figures look, but I'm afraid to touch them. I'm really looking forward to having them in plastic and then being able to switch around to other factions without needing to spend $60+ each to get them.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:04 pm

On the complexity level, would you all say that Recon or Galaxy Defenders is more complex? I want something that is better than Gears of War, more streamlined and with more depth than Castle Ravenloft, but still something I can play in a short time (and teach in an even shorter time).

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:39 pm

I've never played Galaxy Defenders, so I can't say for sure how it would compare. If I have time to check out some videos, I will. Early on in the KS discussion, people were comparing it to the Gears of War boardgame, though I think with a better system for play -- but the general design (from what they were saying) is similar. Good question about Castle Ravenloft as think that's actually a good comparison. You won't get character progression ("levels") like in the DND boardgames. The depth will come from using each team member's strengths in a way that maximizes overall success in an evolving environment. Unlike the D&D games which have truly random monsters wandering the levels based on what you pull from the decks, with RECON the types of enemies will dynamically change based on how the infiltrating MERCS team performs. Make too much noise or start killing too many people and the responding forces will come in greater numbers and/or with better weapons. In that sense, I think it's bit more like Zombicide.

The variety for Recon comes in the 5 man squads as each outfit has their own special powers or abilities. We can play the TT matches (3 on 3) in less than 90 minutes. They're saying that Recon is about the same amount of time, which I can believe as the maps are much smaller and the die rolling isn't nearly as involved with determining range or elevation.

It's really hard for me to say how Recon looks to someone without any experience with the TT system as I know my knowledge of all the factions and the TT game is coloring my impressions of Recon and how I expect it to play. To me, Recon really seems like a way to get people into playing the TT game as it's going to be more structured (grids on a tile vs free form measured movement on a table) and streamlined (rolling colored dice for hits vs calculating hit percent on D10).

The Rocketman · Post by **The Rocketman** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:34 am

I'm conflicted on this KS.

+ The miniatures look awesome.
+ I like painting awesome miniatures.
+ The tabletop game looks like fun, but I've never played a TT game so I can't really tell.
+ Apparantly it's a real bargain.

- It's $200! Imagine what I could buy for that much money! Star Wars X-Wing miniatures for instance, a game which I'm also interested in but also find to be too expensive to justify.
- The Recon game seems so very bland and uninspired
- Will I really start modelling beautiful terrain for TT games? I don't know.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:44 am

$200 for a board game is never, ever a bargain.

Sorry, I've got a serious thing against these kickstarters where the effective buy-in is in the $150+ range for a game that nobody has played. They frequently wind up generating a ton of hype in the run up, then get hit with production delays, then come out and nobody really mentions them again until they put out their next kickstarter for a $150 expansion or something.

I way prefer to wait for release and read reviews for a few months after. If the game is good, I can pick it up then, probably for less than the kickstarter price, and I probably won't really miss the backer add-ins. /grumpyoldman

The Rocketman · Post by **The Rocketman** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:18 am

Thanks for your input. Rationally speaking I concur, but it's easy to get swept away with these hypes. I'll pass for now, I have way too many figures left to paint from other games anyway.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:15 am

To be clear, it's $60 for a board game. However, if you want to start getting in on all the freebies, you buy a copy of each of the base sets for $60 each and spend $120. As someone that is interested in the tabletop game, the $200 pledge is a bananas value for what it will include. Of course, I've tacked on another $100 as that gets me the "all in" add on when they hit $500K -- giving me every single mission pack for that flat $100 fee (instead of $25 each).

I really have found that I enjoy painting so between this, Myth and Shadows of Brimstone I'll be all set well into 2015.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:19 am

If the project comes with a ton of miniatures, I am less concerned about the rules. I have used a few MERCS minis for Paranoia and other sci fi RPGs.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:55 am

At the $120 and $200 levels, you get 91 miniatures. The "all in" for another $100 gets you another 20 miniatures, though once stretch goals are hit you'll get more for that same $100 investment.

The $60 level gets you 20.

I really like the MERCS sculpts and despite my difficulty in painting the metal miniatures, I do like how they look when painted.

EDIT: I guess I should also note they did add some Kickstarter exclusives to substitute in as "Specials" when they come up as enemies.

$15 Roy McClane and Sgt. Pal (Die Hard)
$10 Assistant to the Regional Manager (The Office)
$15 CPP 209 (Robocop)
$10 The Cleaner (Leon, The Professional)

As part of the stretch goals you actually get a Robocop figure and Pesos and Salsa (Tango and Cash) - they're in that 91 figure total.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:55 pm

baelthazar wrote:On the complexity level, would you all say that Recon or Galaxy Defenders is more complex? I want something that is better than Gears of War, more streamlined and with more depth than Castle Ravenloft, but still something I can play in a short time (and teach in an even shorter time).

So the rulebooks for both games are available online. The Recon one will be a beta version of course but Galaxy Defenders is complete.

Echoing Chrisoc13's thoughts, my new crack addiction seems to be co-op games since I'm able to get my daughter to play sometimes and they are perfect for soloing. Recon interests me with close quarters combat in a modern setting. The endgame, the breach and clear stage, is a little strange though. If I were to throw more money at my addiction I'd probably go in at the $120 stage. The $100 all in mission add on is pretty tempting but a bit of a waste if I end up not liking the whole system. Also the $100 can go toward even more X-Wing miniatures which I know I like to play.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:41 pm

I am so very much not buying into this. Myth is not what I had hoped for, the Breach and Clear mechanic is dumb and I don't have room for all those boxes and minis.... yet the game is still pulling at me. I don't know why! 2 days left to resist. I can do it!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:52 pm

Whoo hoo! All mission packs for $100 has been unlocked. Good luck - it only gets better from here.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:04 pm

coopasonic wrote:I am so very much not buying into this. Myth is not what I had hoped for, the Breach and Clear mechanic is dumb and I don't have room for all those boxes and minis.... yet the game is still pulling at me. I don't know why! 2 days left to resist. I can do it!

I can empathize with most of what you've said (don't have Myth), especially the size of those boxes. Yet I keep coming back to this thread and clicking on the kickstarter link. Then I think, "Gee those boxes sure look pretty, with the art style and font that I like." Or, "I don't paint minis but wouldn't it be neat to start?" and "Ya know, some of those figures would work well in Galaxy Defenders, that game that Coopasonic should buy."

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:35 pm

$iljanus wrote: "Ya know, some of those figures would work well in Galaxy Defenders, that game that Coopasonic should buy."

I'll trade ya Myth for Galaxy Defenders.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:20 pm

coopasonic wrote:I am so very much not buying into this. Myth is not what I had hoped for, the Breach and Clear mechanic is dumb and I don't have room for all those boxes and minis.... yet the game is still pulling at me. I don't know why! 2 days left to resist. I can do it!

You make an excellent point. Although my main beef with Myth is more the cardplay aspect and the unbelievably horrible rules. I think I will enjoy Myth, when I get the chance.

My problem is that it is ~$70 (with shipping) to get 31 minis with Galaxy Defenders and $120 to get, what was it SmooveB, 90 minis with Recon? I like the aesthetic better with Recon as well. Both of the rulebooks are flummoxing me, but I need to sit down and read them through before making a decision.

Of course... I could have GD NOW and I have to wait until next year for Recon...

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:30 pm

For $120 (and $200) you would get 95 minis now.

With another $100 for the "All In" add on you would get 30 more (from the Mission packs).

SEE: here

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:55 pm

Stop it Smoove! Just quit it... ooh those look pretty.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:44 am

You know... those B&C mechanics DO look silly. I am going to assume that those extra minis will be available after the KS, but only at cost (like some of the Myth figures)?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:01 am

They are going to get those snipers unlocked and I may have trouble resisting at that point and I DON'T NEED THIS!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:30 am

coopasonic wrote:
$iljanus wrote: "Ya know, some of those figures would work well in Galaxy Defenders, that game that Coopasonic should buy."

I'll trade ya Myth for Galaxy Defenders.

And deprive you of that craptaular manual that I've kept reading about in the Recon forum in BGG? I wouldn't dream of it!

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:32 am

I can resist if hepcat can resist. If hepcat can't resist then I'll play his copy. Winning.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:38 am

coopasonic wrote:They are going to get those snipers unlocked and I may have trouble resisting at that point and I DON'T NEED THIS!

What the heck do you need snipers for in a CQB game unless there's some game mechanic where they can take shots through a window on the game tile? Pretty good deal for the table top game but I'm interested in playing this just in its board game format. Of course, Galaxy Defenders has a sniper that I could use those minis for and I guess I could practice painting them...

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:42 am

I like the sculpts and snipers in general. Also those buildings have some long hallways!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:53 am

I'm just nitpicking now but I kind of wish the single player cards were unlocked as a stretch goal rather than an additional purchase vs the now unlocked stretch goal of being able to breach and clear in Megacon's office which looks a lot like...an office.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:14 am

120 + 100 + 10 = $230
-50 Myth extra copy = $180
-100 Myth KS copy (assuming anyone wants it by then) = $80 to trade Myth for Recon.

Maybe by next year I'll have the space for it!

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:17 am

coopasonic wrote:120 + 100 + 10 = $230
-50 Myth extra copy = $180
-100 Myth KS copy (assuming anyone wants it by then) = $80 to trade Myth for Recon.

Maybe by next year I'll have the space for it!

Out of curiousity, which $10 extra were you thinking of getting?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:31 am

Looks the same one you are complaining about. The single player boards.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:40 am

coopasonic wrote:Looks the same one you are complaining about. The single player boards.

They would cut down on the amount of space on the table when soloing this game which is the way I would probably play. But someone on BGG had a good question about if the single player boards would include factions in the add on mission packs or just the core game. From the kickstarter site it looked like just Assassination Protocol and whatever the other game was called.

Sigh, I'm probably going in on this game. At least I have the foundation of a good play fort with the games I'm accumulating.