[KS] Rollable d4!

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coopasonic
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[KS] Rollable d4!

Post by coopasonic »

A d4 you can actually roll!

That guy needs a Nobel prize.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Turtle »

You know, there's already those crystal style D4s from Crystal Caste, I use those whenever I can and I'm about to order some to replace the ones in my pathfinder box.

Although these do look interesting as well.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by baelthazar »

Wait, why can one not roll a regular triangle D4? Oh, do you mean literally "roll?" People actually do that outside of a Craps game? :P

Seriously though, I just put them and shake in hand, then toss them on the table. Much more visceral and they still roll, sort of.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Turtle »

Overall, the problem with D4s for me isn't that they don't roll, because honestly dice are randomized once they leave your hand. The problem is that they're unwieldy to use, as in difficult to pickup, and often hard to read.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Holman »

I always wanted to take a d20 and just repeat 1-4 on it 5 times.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Formula D d20 is nothing more than a d10+10.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by malichai11 »

Turtle wrote:You know, there's already those crystal style D4s from Crystal Caste, I use those whenever I can and I'm about to order some to replace the ones in my pathfinder box.
Same. I have no problems with the Crystal Cast d4s and ordered up a handful last year.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Daveman »

Why not just roll a d8 and divide by 2?
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Turtle »

Because, the less math you have to do on the spot, the better.

I know it sounds silly, and having to do math at the table is fine, however, the fewer calculations of different types that you have to do at once just to resolve something, the faster you get those results and move on with play. The increase in speed is exponential once you consider how many rolls will happen in a typical tabletop game.

Whenever you roll, you're already having to (usually) add up multiple dice, add or subtract your stat bonus (maybe even calculating your stat bonus), add or subtract multiple situation bonuses or penalties, and so on. You have to keep that running total in your head, as well as various target numbers.

That's why I was interested in systems like the FF Edge of the Empire system, since while on the surface was more complex, it kept the math at small numbers.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by coopasonic »

Daveman wrote:Why not just roll a d8 and divide by 2?
Better a d8 numbered 1-4 twice.
baelthazar wrote:Wait, why can one not roll a regular triangle D4? Oh, do you mean literally "roll?" People actually do that outside of a Craps game? :P

Seriously though, I just put them and shake in hand, then toss them on the table. Much more visceral and they still roll, sort of.
There is something unsatisfying about the way the pyramid d4 just sort of lands and sticks.

While playing Marvel Dice Masters with my 7 year old I am trying to stop him from rolling his dice 20 feet across the room, I also don't just want to drop the dice on the table.
Turtle wrote:You know, there's already those crystal style D4s from Crystal Caste, I use those whenever I can and I'm about to order some to replace the ones in my pathfinder box.
I'd never seen those before, but they are certainly better than the traditional. I would still prefer rolling on more than one plane. Yeah, picky.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Isgrimnur »

coopasonic wrote:While playing Marvel Dice Masters with my 7 year old I am trying to stop him from rolling his dice 20 feet across the room, I also don't just want to drop the dice on the table.
Pick up an old craps table. Problem solved.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

We had to pull all the traditional d4s from the kid's dicebag. They just functioned too much like caltrops when left on the floor.

These (or the Crystal Cast ones) might be nice to replace them but then I'm left thinking, "Why do I need d4s again?"
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Zarathud »

Magic missile!!
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Blackhawk »

...and dagger damage.

d4s don't roll well*. They randomize fine, but they're not 'satisfying' to roll. d8s marked twice with 1-4 work fine, as do d12s marked three times, or d20s marked five times. The problem is, when you're in the middle of grabbing dice, it helps that all of the octrahedrons are d8s, and all the 20-sided are d20s.

That said, and as others have mentioned, Crystal Caste has been making rollable d4s for years (and these d4s look like they'd take off across the table the way d12s sometimes do.)

*This sentence makes me crazy. How do you capitalize a sentence that starts with a word that is never capitalized?
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Zurai »

Blackhawk wrote:The problem is, when you're in the middle of grabbing dice, it helps that all of the octrahedrons are d8s, and all the 20-sided are d20s.
True story: I have a white d20 that I kept having to send to the bench because I never seemed to roll very well on it. Then I rolled a 0 on it and thought, "wait, what?".

Turns out it was a d10 disguised as a d20; it had 0-9 on it twice. It's a shame too because it's my most legible 20-sided die.

And yeah, on topic, my group has switched mostly to the Crystal Caste style d4s now. They just feel much nicer to use and they're not nearly as deadly to step on.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote:I always wanted to take a d20 and just repeat 1-4 on it 5 times.
As far as I can tell this is just a rounder d8 with four of the sides also rounded so you only land of 4 sides. Still it's not a bad idea.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Blackhawk wrote:d4s don't roll well*. They randomize fine, but they're not 'satisfying' to roll. d8s marked twice with 1-4 work fine, as do d12s marked three times, or d20s marked five times. The problem is, when you're in the middle of grabbing dice, it helps that all of the octrahedrons are d8s, and all the 20-sided are d20s.
Maybe you could have d8s numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, 5/1, 6/2, 7/3, 8/4 and do away with 4-siders while still avoid the mixing of different purposed octrahedrons.




Blackhawk wrote:d4s don't roll well*.


*This sentence makes me crazy. How do you capitalize a sentence that starts with a word that is never capitalized?
:lol:
I have the same issue with proper "names" like eBay or ppoNEXT. I usually just restructure the sentence.


Roll well d4s don't.
Not roll well, d4s do.
The regular d4s don't roll well.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Blackhawk »

I have a couple of full sets that never leave my dice box because they are illegible from more than a foot and a half away. One is black on mottled red/orange, the other is dark green on black/gray.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Blackhawk »

iPads are fun.
d4s are fun, too.
eBay has both.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by hentzau »

Zurai wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:The problem is, when you're in the middle of grabbing dice, it helps that all of the octrahedrons are d8s, and all the 20-sided are d20s.
True story: I have a white d20 that I kept having to send to the bench because I never seemed to roll very well on it. Then I rolled a 0 on it and thought, "wait, what?".

Turns out it was a d10 disguised as a d20; it had 0-9 on it twice. It's a shame too because it's my most legible 20-sided die.
It's an old school d20. Take a crayon and color in (and then wipe off) half of the faces. The colored faces are 11-20.

That's the way we did it back in the 'hood.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Zurai »

Blackhawk wrote:I have a couple of full sets that never leave my dice box because they are illegible from more than a foot and a half away. One is black on mottled red/orange, the other is dark green on black/gray.
We call those ninja dice ("I think I just failed a Spot check").
hentzau wrote:It's an old school d20. Take a crayon and color in (and then wipe off) half of the faces. The colored faces are 11-20.

That's the way we did it back in the 'hood.
That would defeat the legibility of the thing. I have enough other d20s that I just leave that one home.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Zurai wrote: That would defeat the legibility of the thing. I have enough other d20s that I just leave that one home.
Choose a crayon color that contrasts with the face. That's the way we did it with all dice back in the day when the numbers were just carved with no paint. It makes them more legible.

In fact, IIRC D&D boxes came with a crayon for that very purpose. Sometimes you'd get unlucky and get a crayon the same color as the dice.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Here, found some.

Before:
Image

After:
Image

Guess the crayon was always white but I swear I remember someone getting a red crayon with red dice.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Blackhawk »

After after:

Image
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Thus the dicebag/no dicebag debate of days past. :lol:

I still have my red set from the original blue box.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Zurai »

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Zurai wrote: That would defeat the legibility of the thing. I have enough other d20s that I just leave that one home.
Choose a crayon color that contrasts with the face. That's the way we did it with all dice back in the day when the numbers were just carved with no paint. It makes them more legible.

In fact, IIRC D&D boxes came with a crayon for that very purpose. Sometimes you'd get unlucky and get a crayon the same color as the dice.
Yes, I'm quite aware of the color-in-the-numbers origin of Chainmail/basic D&D dice. I also know the only reason D&D uses non-d6 dice is that the only way Arneson and Gygax could get pack-in dice for the starter boxes was if they got the complete set of scientific dice.

That all said, the 20 sided d10 I have has black numerals, which means I would have to both A) go out and buy crayons just for this one die (not happening in the first place) and B) find a color that covers up the black, contrasts with the white, and is visibly very different from the black.

Again, way too much effort.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Holman »

Blackhawk wrote:After after:

Enlarge Image
In my memory, a D4 is always yellow.
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by hitbyambulance »

i remember our D&D basic set (red box 2nd ed) had the cheapie DIY dice, while the expert set (blue box 2nd ed) had the pre-inked, higher-quality kind that didn't wear away on the vertices.

and our poodle chewed on the basic d12, so that one was always the outcast of all of them. how often was a d12 needed?
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Re: [KS] Rollable d4!

Post by Zurai »

hitbyambulance wrote:how often was a d12 needed?
Almost never. They specifically made greataxes deal d12 damage so that something would use them (since they had to buy the dice in complete sets).
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