Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM)

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Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM)

Post by coopasonic »

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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by El Guapo »

FFG is probably my favorite game developer, so I'm a little concerned (admittedly, without knowing much of anything about Asmodee).

On the other hand, it's not like I have the time to play lots of new board games anyway.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

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Asmodee is French. Need I say more?
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

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coopasonic wrote:Asmodee is French. Need I say more?
Oui.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

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More.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Zarathud »

I like Asmodee -- Eclipse, Seasons, 7 Wonders, Timeline. I am somewhat concerned that Days of Wonder was also purchased in August. Perhaps more concerning is that Asmodee has the cash to go on a buying spree because it was acquired in January 2014 by European investment company Eurazero. Looks like acquisitions of US Brand companies.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chaz »

Asmodee has actually been one of my favorite publishers of the last few years. They've been releasing solid titles without going too far into the "No games, only product lines" thing that FFG has embraced with all four limbs the last several years. I'd like to think that maybe this will allow the FFG designers to work on a few standalone games instead of feeling like every single thing they do has to be a never-ending expansion-fest.

More Chaos in the Old World, less X-Wing Minis, please.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Isgrimnur »

Formula D is Asmodee.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Ænima »

Seems like a genuine merger where both companies want access to each other's supply/distribution chains in NA/EU.
How will FFG’s and Asmodee’s product lines be affected?

FFG’s new and existing product lines will continue to be developed by FFG and sold under the FFG logo. FFG will stay a fully independent publisher in the Asmodee Group, and intends to keep creating the best games possible. A few of FFG’s products, whose identity may be deemed a better fit under a different Asmodee Group brand, may transition within the group.

Similarly, Asmodee’s existing and new products will continue to be developed by Asmodee’s creative staff and/or affiliate studios, and published under the Asmodee, or the independent studios’, logo. Those Asmodee games deemed a great fit for FFG may transition to FFG’s catalog.
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Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM)

Post by Zarathud »

X-Wing is a pretty well designed asymmetrical miniatures game. Definitely on par with or better than Chaos in the Old World. I certainly play X-Wing more.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

Yeah, Asmodee is solid, so this will probably be a good thing (well, other than the fact they will monopolize a large part of the boardgame market and have some of the best publishers/developers). They are right about FFG's strong logistics, and I wish other companies (like, say, that company that still hasn't shipped my copy of Shadows of Brimstone who will remain nameless but has similar initials to FFG) were as strong in this regard. We often do not see Asmodee games until after Europe, so have FFG be their American arm might mean game coming quicker over the pond.

They did make sure to emphasize that FFG is staying an independent developer/publisher, so that is reassuring.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chrisoc13 »

Potentially worried about this move. They have now bought my two favorite gaming companies, Days of Wonder and FFG. Both make incredible products with incredibly high production value. I'm just hoping that these moves don't change the value of these games.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chaz »

Zarathud wrote:X-Wing is a pretty well designed asymmetrical miniatures game. Definitely on par with or better than Chaos in the Old World. I certainly play X-Wing more.
Oh, I know X-Wing is a good game. It's the "money pit of endless expansions" thing that I can't get on board with. Chaos in the Old World is better for me because it's a self-contained experience with one optional expansion that adds a fifth player. I can buy the box and have a complete thing. With X-Wing, you buy the box, and you almost have to add several more ships to it before you have an interesting game.

Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of FFG's design work, and they make good games. It's just that all their games lately are designed for endless expansion, and they're rightfully flogging the model because it's a money printer. That's great for them, but I get turned off when I have to figure out if the game they want to sell me in the box is good by itself, or if I'll need to spend more to make it an actually solid game experience.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by LordMortis »

I'm going to go against the grain here and say Asmodee design good games but have bottom tier QA and low customer service to back up that QA.

The 7 Wonders debacle was the example for me that but me on full distrust with them.

At first my complaints about a lack of card back uniformity went unanswered.
When they were answered it took an exceptionally long time for them to get back to me.
When they game was finally playable, they basically told me that having all of my playboards in different languages didn't matter for the playability of the game. So that was a something they weren't going to address.

In short, they opted for ultra cheap labor, QA, and parts. They didn't get burned by their decision because they didn't accept full responsibility for it.

This is in opposition to go other publishers who have responded to problems within two days by email and then fix QA problems that have made games unplayable without hassle. Eagle Games comes to mind. Age of Mythology shipped with incorrect decks. It took a total of four days from my initial email to receive a replacement deck. Mind blowingly better CS than one should reasonably hope for.

When last I remember, Asmodee still designed a good game, so I'll happily sit down and play someone else's copy of a game, but I'm hard pressed to drop money on a game of theirs again.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chrisoc13 »

LordMortis wrote:I'm going to go against the grain here and say Asmodee design good games but have bottom tier QA and low customer service to back up that QA.

The 7 Wonders debacle was the example for me that but me on full distrust with them.

At first my complaints about a lack of card back uniformity went unanswered.
When they were answered it took an exceptionally long time for them to get back to me.
When they game was finally playable, they basically told me that having all of my playboards in different languages didn't matter for the playability of the game. So that was a something they weren't going to address.

In short, they opted for ultra cheap labor, QA, and parts. They didn't get burned by their decision because they didn't accept full responsibility for it.

This is in opposition to go other publishers who have responded to problems within two days by email and then fix QA problems that have made games unplayable without hassle. Eagle Games comes to mind. Age of Mythology shipped with incorrect decks. It took a total of four days from my initial email to receive a replacement deck. Mind blowingly better CS than one should reasonably hope for.

When last I remember, Asmodee still designed a good game, so I'll happily sit down and play someone else's copy of a game, but I'm hard pressed to drop money on a game of theirs again.
This is what worries me. Days of Wonder and Fantasy Flight have had by far the best customer service and quality assurance I have ever seen in gaming. They are second to none. I hold them in incredibly high regard, and that is why this move makes me nervous. I have little experience with Asmodee, but these two companies have been so good I can't imagine any changes would be positive. But I'll hold out hope.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Zarathud »

Even more interesting information has come out on the Asmodee acquisition -- distribution numbers and long-range plans.

2013 Fantasy Flight Circulation:
Star Wars X-Wing - 1.390k units
Game of Thrones - 421k units
Android - 496k units
Arkham Horror - 338k units

2013 Days of Wonder Circulation:
Ticket to Ride - 451k units
Small World - 140k units
Memoir 44 - 35k units

Asmodee wanted into the U.S. and less dependence on trading cards, as well as IP and high margins from distribution channels. They seem perfectly poised with the Days of Wonder and Fantasy Flight acquisitions, and highlight the "full independency granted to these studios, to keep innovating." I expect some more pretty aggressive moves have been planned.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Smoove_B »

And almost a year later, take a look at this:
Changes in the distributor roster and in how products are sold will take place on January 1.

The consolidation is being done “to harness new resources and make investments in marketing and communications that will positively affect both the trade and game consumers,” the company said. “The first major improvement will be the launch of the new Asmodee Publishing website in early 2016.”

New sales policies for specialty retailers will take effect on April 1. Those policies will restrict sales by game stores to “consumer transactions through retailers’ physical retail locations” and at cons. Online sales and mail order will be prohibited with exceptions granted for online retailers that “contribute either significant scale, unique service, or other exceptional differentiation,” the company said. Those sales will take place under separate terms of sale from the Specialty Retail terms.
That sounds...strange.
“The marketplace has long been distorted by providing one-size-fits-all sales terms to every retail account, regardless of its channel of sale,” he said. “The growth in demand for games over the last decade, in our view, has been fueled not only by fantastic product, but by the support of specialty retailers who incubate personal connections between players, facilitate tournaments and leagues, provide instant product availability, and increasingly provide a ‘third place’ that is instrumental for so many gamers to enjoy and discover our products. The retailer cost of providing such channel services is significant, and so we’re now making policy changes to ensure that the sales terms provided to those retailers, relative to other channels, are positively reflective of the value they add to our distribution chain.”
Isn't that the model that Games Workshop used with the Warhammer/40K stuff? Severely restricting online sales?
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

GW is even more restrictive (online retailers aren't allowed to show images of the products or use a 'shopping cart' system - you have to get a price list and order by phone.) Their motive is to control the prices. They are the only ones allowed to have a sale, because theirs is the only site where ordering online is practical.

Still, it has a very similar feel, and it sounds like it is going to screw over any small seller that also does business online. You're either Amazon, or you can't sell except physically in-person.
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Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM)

Post by baelthazar »

I am guessing this will have no effect on Miniature Market and Coolstuff, as they certainly have volumes of online sales.

Their justification is skewed, however. I would argue that board games are more popular now because they are easier to research and purchase. Going back to a 80-90s model of having to track down a brick and mortar store is counterproductive (although B&M stores are more prevalent in Europe, so maybe that is their mindset).
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by AWS260 »

So basically, they're going to cut FLGS a better deal, but bar them from selling online.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chaz »

It sounds like this is going to wind up with a Mayfair-style price floor, disallowing online game stores from discounting as heavily. If that's the deal, it might wind up with all now-Asmodee games only selling for MSRP or close to.

That's kind of a bummer, since FFG has been pushing their prices up bit by bit. Their bigger box games like Forbidden Stars, Armada, and Rebellion have been priced at $100. With online pricing, the street price came down to something more reasonable. If everything's now going to go for MSRP, then I see myself buying way fewer games. $100 is outside my comfort zone for a single game.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

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baelthazar wrote:Going back to a 80-90s model of having to track down a brick and mortar store is counterproductive (although B&M stores are more prevalent in Europe, so maybe that is their mindset).
I don't have to track down a B&M store. I know exactly where they're at - a 3-hour round trip from here. That adds a lot of gas expense to buying a (likely overpriced anyway) board game.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

baelthazar wrote:I am guessing this will have no effect on Miniature Market and Coolstuff, as they certainly have volumes of online sales.
Maybe. CoolStuffInc has B&M stores. Also, nobody seems to be able to agree (or get any straight answers) about how this affects sales directly from Amazon (where I make 95% of my boardgame purchases, see the above post.)

I don't doubt that there are a handful of specific online retailers that are the targets of this new policy. Right now, though, nobody is quite sure who it is.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

Blackhawk wrote:
baelthazar wrote:Going back to a 80-90s model of having to track down a brick and mortar store is counterproductive (although B&M stores are more prevalent in Europe, so maybe that is their mindset).
I don't have to track down a B&M store. I know exactly where they're at - a 3-hour round trip from here. That adds a lot of gas expense to buying a (likely overpriced anyway) board game.
Heh... yeah, that was my situation in the 80s-90s living in South-Central Indiana.

I have one around 10 minutes from me now, but their prices are consistently 25-30% higher.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

baelthazar wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:
baelthazar wrote:Going back to a 80-90s model of having to track down a brick and mortar store is counterproductive (although B&M stores are more prevalent in Europe, so maybe that is their mindset).
I don't have to track down a B&M store. I know exactly where they're at - a 3-hour round trip from here. That adds a lot of gas expense to buying a (likely overpriced anyway) board game.
Heh... yeah, that was my situation in the 80s-90s living in South-Central Indiana.

I have one around 10 minutes from me now, but their prices are consistently 25-30% higher.
Was your drive back then also to Bloomington?
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

Blackhawk wrote:
baelthazar wrote:
Blackhawk wrote:
baelthazar wrote:Going back to a 80-90s model of having to track down a brick and mortar store is counterproductive (although B&M stores are more prevalent in Europe, so maybe that is their mindset).
I don't have to track down a B&M store. I know exactly where they're at - a 3-hour round trip from here. That adds a lot of gas expense to buying a (likely overpriced anyway) board game.
Heh... yeah, that was my situation in the 80s-90s living in South-Central Indiana.

I have one around 10 minutes from me now, but their prices are consistently 25-30% higher.
Was your drive back then also to Bloomington?
It was one of the two places. We had a "Something to Do" in Clarksville, but it was more limited than The Game Preserve. BTW, that Bloomington Game Preserve got a lot of my money in college!
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

It has for years. It still does. The kids and I go up there every year for the Irish Lion or Trojan Horse. Now, though, a new independent game place has opened up over by the mall that is twice as good and doesn't have Game Preserve prices.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

Blackhawk wrote:It has for years. It still does. The kids and I go up there every year for the Irish Lion or Trojan Horse. Now, though, a new independent game place has opened up over by the mall that is twice as good and doesn't have Game Preserve prices.
I lived in B-town from 1998-2002 and then again from 2009-2012. I wish we had talked then, because I would have loved to meet up at Trojan Horse or Irish Lion! You don't get better food than in B-town and those two are the best!

Is the new store called The Common Room? We left as that was getting set up. I'm glad to hear they are doing well, as I loved their attitude and model.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Chrisoc13 »

Hmm. I like using brick and mortar stores, I do, but in too many places there just aren't any with the selection you need. In Chicago I bought a fair amount in person. But here in Maine now there are really no good options. Nobody carries enough.

I hope this doesn't stop csi or miniature market because x wing is actually difficult to get at many game stores (outside of the base sets and ships from the original trilogy). I tend to pre order all my x wing ships online.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

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baelthazar wrote: I lived in B-town from 1998-2002 and then again from 2009-2012. I wish we had talked then, because I would have loved to meet up at Trojan Horse or Irish Lion! You don't get better food than in B-town and those two are the best!

Is the new store called The Common Room? We left as that was getting set up. I'm glad to hear they are doing well, as I loved their attitude and model.
I've been in the area since 2000, so I was definitely here! Yeah, The Common Room is the place. I've only been able to make it over there once, but it is head and shoulders above The Game Preserve.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Smoove_B »

Official PR in response to this:
To Whom It May Concern,

Related to our recently announced wholesale terms and policy changes, some questions have been raised by stakeholders such as yourself. On behalf of Asmodee North America, we're happy to provide you some additional context to those changes and clarify several areas.

It is important to underscore that, above all, Asmodee and its publishers are dedicated to creating and publishing great games, and to expand the audience that enjoy these experiences. Our vision is one of mutual success of each participant: publisher, distributor, retailers (of every channel), and, most importantly, the game consumer. We believe our new business terms and policy changes are a significant step in achieving such mutual success.

Why are you making these sudden changes?
While they may appear to be sudden, these policies have been under development for a very long time, and considered carefully. They are intended to allow for success in the channels of sale where our products are represented: success that is not attained at the expense of other channels that provide crucial value to the overall health of the industry and our business.

To that end, we have decided to cleanly define and authorize the channels of sale in which our business partners (distributors and retailers) operate, so that we may a) ensure that consumers receive a quality experience in acquiring our games, and b) ensure that the risk, value, and investment of every channel, relative to others, can be successful.

We believe the current ecosystem of specialty retail and online retail is important to the health and growth of the gaming hobby. Without taking corrective action, we believe this ecosystem would be in jeopardy, which ultimately would affect the quality of game development and the investment in great consumer experiences.

Did you invent this approach?
The practice of product originators authorizing outlets and defining expected behavior in its product distribution chain is well established in many industries and common in high-end and niche product categories.

I don't frequent local game retailers, why are they important?
We believe that business partners whom provide services and investments that we value, relative to others who do not, should receive proportional value from us so that they may succeed in such activities. In comparison to, for example, the online channel of sales, specialty retailers make investments in areas we consider critical to the health and growth of the gaming hobby, such as in-store gaming events, demonstrations, tournaments, and other organized play facilitation. These outlets are a crucial part of an ecosystem that retains and generates players. In turn, this allows publishers to engage and invest in game development. As such, these services are of value to all game consumers, even consumers whom do not personally participate or take advantage of local specialty retailers.

In the future, will I be able to find products from Asmodee North America (i.e. products from Asmodee Editions, Fantasy Flight Games, or Days of Wonder) online?
We are keenly aware and we understand that not all consumers have access to, or that some prefer not to take advantage of, specialty retail game stores. Online shopping is a modern and convenient method of shopping, and Asmodee is committed to keeping this channel a viable and high-quality method of product delivery to consumers.

We intend to work with a number of exceptional authorized online dealers. We are confident that consumers will easily be able to find and acquire our products from a variety of online outlets.

Some brick-and-mortar specialty retailers also sell online, how will this affect them?
We recognize that these new policies come with implications for some retailers. One such change will be that authorized specialty retailers will agree not to sell Asmodee North America products online. That said, we hope the end result, i.e. enabling us to support them relative to other defined channels, will be a significant net improvement for specialty retailers overall.

Will Asmodee North America change any consumer engagement practices of publishers, such as the FFG World Championships, AsmoPlay, Gen Con booth and events, publisher websites, etc?
No, consumer engagement from publishers is expected to continue as has been done in the past, and all the above are expected to continue (in fact, we will be investing to make these efforts even greater). Our publishers represent different brands, gaming styles, and audiences, we have no interest in mixing them or forcing them into a single brand, message, or culture.

How will this affect mass market outlets, such a Amazon, Target, or Barnes and Noble?
We consider the mass/broad market to be its own unique channel of sale, one we want to be successful in its own right alongside our other successful channels of sale.

Many specialty retailers have in-store loyalty or volume discounts, and many online dealers discount their product. In the new policies taking effect on April 1st, 2016, will you institute or impose official price floors or "minimum advertised price" policies on your authorized retailers?
No.

Change is never easy, rarely popular, and we understand that some will dismiss such corporate change as cynical and self-serving. We believe to be making a change that will not only be positive for us, but will be positive for our business partners, for player growth, and for future development of gaming product with increasing quality and imagination.

Best Wishes and Happy Holidays,

Aaron Elliott
VP Marketing
Asmodee North America
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Isgrimnur »

In short, they're going to mandate that companies stick to their core competencies.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

Good lord, my head is spinning.

Hang on, let me clean that up a little:
To Whom It May Concern,

some questions have been raised by stakeholders

It is important

Why are you making these sudden changes?

To

invent

are they important?

future, will I

a

Some brick-and-mortar... overall.

Will... FFG

affect

the new

Change
Best Wishes and Happy Holidays,

Aaron Elliott
VP Marketing
Asmodee North America

There. I removed all of the unicorn sparkles and other marketing nonsense. It still doesn't help me figure out if there are any answers in there.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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baelthazar
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

Well... this looks like they are making an ultimatum for places like Coolstuff and Miniature Market to either sell only physical retail or online. Of course, they may consider these people "exceptional." Something smacks of internal glad handing and corruption, i.e. "You got a lucrative online business? It would be a shame if youse were to lose that... hows about you pony up for a 'protection license?'"

And I call BS on this personal crusade to "save the gaming ecosystem through the brick and mortar stores." They seem to do just fine here.
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$iljanus
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by $iljanus »

baelthazar wrote:Well... this looks like they are making an ultimatum for places like Coolstuff and Miniature Market to either sell only physical retail or online. Of course, they may consider these people "exceptional." Something smacks of internal glad handing and corruption, i.e. "You got a lucrative online business? It would be a shame if youse were to lose that... hows about you pony up for a 'protection license?'"

And I call BS on this personal crusade to "save the gaming ecosystem through the brick and mortar stores." They seem to do just fine here.
That would be a shame if Coolstuff were to suffer since at this point I can easily walk away from the X-Wing miniatures cash cow FFG has with the ships I have. I like buying from Coolstuff and had some good interactions with their customer service department to fix some problems.
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Zarathud
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Zarathud »

Parse through the words, and they're saying there will be better wholesale prices to "brick and mortar" stores due to their "value added" and "investment" in the gaming community. I expect higher wholesale prices for Miniature Market and Coolstuff so they can't leverage their retail presence to massive online discount sales under the new price lists. I buy my X-Wing miniatures online at release because of the steep discounts, and my local store benefits only by my impulse purchases for modified ship lists and my family's purchases of gifts. Of course, I'm still buying other product because my local store supports regular X-Wing play and has plenty of non-Fantasy Flight stock.
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baelthazar
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by baelthazar »

So, basically the consumer gets hit with higher prices then?
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LordMortis
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by LordMortis »

Smoove_B wrote:Isn't that the model that Games Workshop used with the Warhammer/40K stuff? Severely restricting online sales?
In the 90s, GW attempted to restrict B&M sales by putting constraints and demands on retailers. At the same time, they were opening the first of the GW retailers in the US. Here in Michigan, gaming stores threatened to boycott GW games and GW sort of backed down. They didn't open any GW stores but they did "help" independent retailers who catered to GW to the exclusion of other games. Before this ever came to a head, MtG changed everything... And then I long quit paying attention.

...

My response to Asmodee is bugger off but then they've left a bad taste in my mouth since they've come on the scene, though, I do agree with the sentiment they are trying to accomplish. They want to foster Value Added Brick and Mortar gaming stores. I used to want that to and can still get on board with it.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

One of my favorite online retailers on current GW internet policies.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Fantasy Flight Games to Merge into the Asmodee Group (TM

Post by Blackhawk »

They have acquired the English rights to Catan.

Well... we still have Yahtzee, I suppose.
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