Kickstarter 2015-2016 - Mostly Tabletop, but we aren't picky

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:20 pm

Chrisoc13 wrote:Cmon has really gone that direction. But for zombicide season three it was still reasonable even with all the stretch goals. Don't remember the exact number but i remember it being reasonable.

I think it was around $11. That seems to be the amount I paid for Arcadia Quest (also from CMON). I've come to the conclusion (particularly after the SotB shipping delay and now my missing Cthulhu Wars package) that I am going to quit Kickstartering games, unless they are from CMON or Tasty Minstrel (neither have let me down so far).

A nonny mouse · Post by **A nonny mouse** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:58 am

Never paid much attention to Kickstarter stuff, but the Tiny Epic Galaxies looked interesting, plus they seem to have a good track record with the other two TE games. So this is my first. woo-hoo??

Also, now I need to find some friends so I am not always playing in solo mode.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:08 pm

Exploding Kittens has quickly eclipsed all other non-video-game game projects, and is currently fifth all-time in the overall 'Game' category. Not bad for a project with 27 days to go.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 5:30 pm

Not bad at all

Moat_Man · Post by **Moat_Man** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:10 pm

It broke Kickspy.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:47 pm

It's now the project with the most backers in KS history. Also trails only Ouya in $$ now within the gaming category. Sitting at a cool $4.25M with 22 days to go.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:38 pm

Well I also back exploding kittens. With it being so historic I couldn't help myself. So after saying I was done backing projects in 2015 I am currently on two projects (Tiny Epic Galaxies and Exploding Kittens) and it is only January. Luckily both of them are very cheap and light games so it shouldn't be a failure.

Also of note I managed to unload Myth this week. Someone contacted me and really wanted it and paid me close to my original pledge for it. I ended up losing $50 total so it wasn't the best but for getting rid of that trainwreck it could have been much, much worse. Also they got a ton of KS stuff for a very good price for a game they already had tried and enjoyed. So I didn't even have to feel dirty getting rid of it! Everyone wins... well except I still lose a bit.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:53 am

Chrisoc13 wrote:Also of note I managed to unload Myth this week. Someone contacted me and really wanted it and paid me close to my original pledge for it. I ended up losing $50 total so it wasn't the best but for getting rid of that trainwreck it could have been much, much worse. Also they got a ton of KS stuff for a very good price for a game they already had tried and enjoyed. So I didn't even have to feel dirty getting rid of it! Everyone wins... well except I still lose a bit.

If it makes you feel any better, I came out about $50 ahead on Myth, so in total we are break even... and I didn't even overcharge anyone. They just sent me two of the first shipment.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:00 pm

I keep debating selling my copy. But the miniatures are so nice that I have this nagging feeling I'd miss them if I sold it off.

Plus, with the fixes they've been putting out, it's actually becoming a decent little game. It's too bad it took a year to get there, as well as costing us extra to pay for new cards and crap.

Grrrrr....now I'm back to wanting to sell it.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:16 pm

hepcat wrote:I keep debating selling my copy. But the miniatures are so nice that I have this nagging feeling I'd miss them if I sold it off.

Plus, with the fixes they've been putting out, it's actually becoming a decent little game. It's too bad it took a year to get there, as well as costing us extra to pay for new cards and crap.

Grrrrr....now I'm back to wanting to sell it.

I toyed with the idea of trying the "patches" they are putting out because I heard it really improved the game... but I ultimately decided I spent so much time once in learning the game that I was just too fed up with it to even try especially with so many good games that take so much less work out there to play. Add to that the cost of putting in the "patches" in terms of printing cards etc, the ridiculous idea that you can just continue to patch a game after release, the fatigue of Myth in those I game with that had tried it, and the attitude of Mercs towards customers and I decided it was time to unload it. I don't regret it in the slightest, but I would play yours at Octocon if you took the time to implement the patches

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:29 pm

I purchased the 1.5 version of the cards off printersrow.com a few months ago...and then watched as they released entirely new cards for 2.0 recently.

I think if I do hang on to the game, I'll just sleeve all the character cards, print out the updated cards on paper and insert them in front of the original cards in their sleeves from now on.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:39 pm

hepcat wrote:I purchased the 1.5 version of the cards off printersrow.com a few months ago...and then watched as they released entirely new cards for 2.0 recently.

I think if I do hang on to the game, I'll just sleeve all the character cards, print out the updated cards on paper and insert them in front of the original cards in their sleeves from now on.

Yeah that's probably a decent plan, although they are saying their next Myth kickstarter will include all edited cards for the original Myth. That was one more thing that finally pushed me over the edge to getting rid of it- fixing your original mess with a new kickstarter... the thought of backing that second kicksarter to correct a previous issue makes me a bit sick. I'm sure the second kickstarter will do well and make plenty of money, but I can't see backing it again.

I really hope they learn from their mistakes with Myth and don't make the same mistakes with Recon. I think I will leave that game in the box until I hear reviews so at least I can unload it as new this time if I have to...

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:46 pm

I will say that I doubt I'll ever purchase another game from them. If you can't be bothered to playtest your game out of house, I don't see how you can call yourself a game developer.

On the plus side, my kickstarter copy of Omen: Reign of War should be here tomorrow. From all accounts, it's fantastic. I already own a copy, but this kickstarter version includes fancy metal coins, all the expansions, and a smaller set of cards that makes deck drafting a bit more meaningful. All at the cost of a measly 25 bucks.

Small Box Games last kickstarter for their Egyptian themed game set left me a bit cold after a couple of plays, but Omen is hands down one of my favorite two player games of all time.

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:48 pm

hepcat wrote:I will say that I doubt I'll ever purchase another game from them. If you can't be bothered to playtest your game out of house, I don't see how you can call yourself a game developer.

I feel the same way. I mean, in embarrassing fashion I backed Recon

... but after that no more!

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:36 pm

I acquired a copy of Myth from Coop (thanks coop) but I unloaded it after realizing that the rules were just too broken and that my wife and friends would never really want to invest the time in learning the problematic ruleset. I think I basically broke even, which is fine.

I am somewhat regretting backing Mercs Recon. I know it is a pre-existing system, so it may be a stronger ruleset, but there is still the potential for the game to be half baked (and I do not foresee a smooth roll out). Thankfully, I resisted the urge to go "all in" with that extra $120.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:43 am

Well, I feel the same way about Alien Frontiers. The expansion card and faction kickstarter took so long that the 6 player expansion and Fourth Edition reprint was released before Gamesalute delivered. I wanted to swear off them but I had a good copy of the game board (without the printing error in the Fourth Edition) and it will get more play with the 6 player option. So I caved and my copy arrived today.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:00 pm

Alright, going to pump this one more time, guys. If you liked This Is Spinal Tap, or quirky humor, you should check this out:

93% on Rotten Tomatoes, but looks like they are in danger of not making the goal.

Here's the KS page with funny pitch video:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/14 ... ero_thanks

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:18 am

Anyone?!

No 'Flight of the Conchords' fans here?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Fine.

May you all be bitten, sloppily, by a vampire with dull fangs.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:10 am

I’ll give a heads up for Conan since it is in its last 12 hours. So far they have raised over $2,700,000. I’m mostly interested because it seems to be somewhat similar to Mansions of Madness but with much more interesting combat. Entry price is high but you get a ton of stuff with your pledge.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:45 am

I looked at it pretty closely, but I'm going to pass. Love the idea and theme of the game, and you do get a metric shitton of stuff with it, but I have to draw the line someplace.

Don't I?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:49 am

Same here. Now, if Conan had a solitaire component, I would probably jump on it. But since my copy of Descent 2nd edition sat unplayed on my shelf until they released the recent coop mini packs that allow for solo play, I doubt I could get this to the table for a game night.

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:03 am

I have too much REH/Conan love in my blood to pass on this one. I just wish they wouldn't send out so dang many updates every day... hopefully that will slow down once they fund and stop blowing through stretch goals.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:09 am

Let us know how it plays once you get it. It is a fantastic looking game. And I like what I read about it.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:12 am

hentzau wrote:I looked at it pretty closely, but I'm going to pass. Love the idea and theme of the game, and you do get a metric shitton of stuff with it, but I have to draw the line someplace.

Don't I?

If you said you were going to purchase the game, shave yourself down and then oil up and move all the little plastic figures around on a giant map of Hyboria, I'd be a bit concerned and that's probably crossing a line. Regardless, it does look cool, but I also agree it would sit on my shelf and never get touched. But I have to believe for hardcore fans of Conan this game looks even more amazing.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:35 am

Conan hit 3million this morning, which unlocked a giant collector’s edition box that is supposed to be big enough to fit all the stretch goals. I believe this also makes it the most funded board game of all time.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:39 am

North of $100 is way too much for me to spend on a game that isn't actually made yet. Yeah, you get a lot of stuff, but no guarantees about the quality of the stuff. I'm way happier waiting to see how it turns out. It could be another Myth. Or it could be like Shadows Over Brimstone, where the game is good, but the ton of stuff you get isn't as good as it sounded.

I hope it comes out well, though.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:44 am

Chaz wrote: It could be another Myth. Or it could be like Shadows Over Brimstone, where the game is good, but the ton of stuff you get isn't as good as it sounded.

To add another concern, the ton of stuff you get will arrive in separate shipments spaced out over a year or two...which was the case with both Myth and Shadows of Brimstone

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:52 am

Yeah, that's another thing. And the shipping is separate, and probably high.

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that $100-200 is now a reasonable price for a board game preorder. It's definitely not up to me how anyone spends their money, but it doesn't make sense in my brain.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:57 am

Chaz wrote:Yeah, that's another thing. And the shipping is separate, and probably high.

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that $100-200 is now a reasonable price for a board game preorder. It's definitely not up to me how anyone spends their money, but it doesn't make sense in my brain.

It's not. It's the norm for tons of plastic kickstarters. I don't think it keeps going for much longer. There are only so many suckers out there. 15,335 of them at this very moment.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:58 am

To be fair, neither kickstarter has charged me for two different shipping packages. I don't think I've heard of any that have.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:10 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Chaz wrote:Yeah, that's another thing. And the shipping is separate, and probably high.

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that $100-200 is now a reasonable price for a board game preorder. It's definitely not up to me how anyone spends their money, but it doesn't make sense in my brain.
It's not. It's the norm for tons of plastic kickstarters. I don't think it keeps going for much longer. There are only so many suckers out there. 15,335 of them at this very moment.

I guess what makes me sad at the trend is that the "tons of plastic" kickstarters do so well, and it encourages other games to throw in a ton of plastic to get in on the action. So a bunch get sold on Kickstarter, and then they're left with this game that's got a $100+ price tag at retail. I don't have any direct numbers, but I can't imagine that those sell too well. It means that potentially good games are priced out of reach of a big portion of the market. Like, I'd love to play Cthulhu Wars, but the price tag means I likely never will. Are the minis cool? Sure. Is the game perfectly playable without them? Absolutely.

There's definitely a place for boutique, luxury items, but it feels like we're seeing an awful lot of these, and they're pushing the prices of similar games up. FFG has two different Star Wars games now that have sticker prices of $100, with plenty of expansions on the way. I wonder if they'd be doing that if huge Kickstarters weren't a thing.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:15 pm

It comes down to what you enjoy. I prefer thematic games to the alternative, and that means that they often have a higher price point than (component) simpler euro style games.

Outside of Kickstarters, the most I’ve spent on a board game is Mansions of Madness and all of its expansions. Roughly around $200 for everything. That is a game that, when fully painted and enjoyed by a group that enjoys the story and the lore, becomes a wholly unique experience. The time that your investigator ran down the hallway that was swarming with zombies, grabbed the damsel, and fought his way out with a machete is much more memorable than the time you exchanged two white cubes for a yellow cube and then were able to take the red space on the board.

I suppose it also depends on how you spend your other entertainment dollars. I don’t smoke, drink, eat out at restaurants or go to sporting events. If board games are my vice, I’m OK with that.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:25 pm

I'm in the same boat with enjoying thematic games, and I know that they tend to be more expensive. But now they've strayed way far into the realm of "too rich for my blood". Its telling when the more budget-friendly alternative to ameritrash theme-heavy games are wargames. I remember back when GMT games were averaging $70 each, and FFG games were $50-75. People would rail about how GMT games were so overpriced because they were just cardboard and paper maps, while FFG gave you a ton of plastic. Now FFG games are $70-100, GMT games are still $60-80, and I'm buying a more GMT games because they're cheaper and more thematic.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:42 pm

Yeah, I'm starting to think the plastic figure thing is becoming too much. I do enjoy painting them, but now I'm completely overwhelmed with games that are stacked up in the queue because I need to finish assembling and painting figures. Shadows of Brimstone - perfect example. Had it now for months and months, but I need to finish putting them together and then get them on bases. It's not going to happen until May. I backed a game last summer after meeting with the creators at a local game convention and sitting in on their podcast recording about the game with the understanding that it was going to be released this past September. Well, they decided to have another mini-Kickstarter to add plastic figures to the game (it was using cardboard stands) and now it's in production hell. I think the latest delivery estimate is April, but I'll be amazed if that happens. It would have played fine with the cardboard stand ups, and I probably would have been playing it for months now. Instead they delayed the launch of the entire game to get plastic minis to backers. It makes me think they ran numbers and didn't believe they were going to profit enough just selling the base set in 100% cardboard.

The market is definitely getting all kinds of weird. I really enjoy Dead of Winter. I'm not sure it would be an improved experience if I had plastic minis instead of cardboard stand ups. Whether or not publishers / developers are going to start realizing that many more people will likely buy a $60 cardboard chit game than the $100 plastic mini game -- and offer both options -- I have no idea.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Chaz wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
Chaz wrote:Yeah, that's another thing. And the shipping is separate, and probably high.

I still can't wrap my head around the idea that $100-200 is now a reasonable price for a board game preorder. It's definitely not up to me how anyone spends their money, but it doesn't make sense in my brain.
It's not. It's the norm for tons of plastic kickstarters. I don't think it keeps going for much longer. There are only so many suckers out there. 15,335 of them at this very moment.
I guess what makes me sad at the trend is that the "tons of plastic" kickstarters do so well, and it encourages other games to throw in a ton of plastic to get in on the action. So a bunch get sold on Kickstarter, and then they're left with this game that's got a $100+ price tag at retail. I don't have any direct numbers, but I can't imagine that those sell too well. It means that potentially good games are priced out of reach of a big portion of the market. Like, I'd love to play Cthulhu Wars, but the price tag means I likely never will. Are the minis cool? Sure. Is the game perfectly playable without them? Absolutely.

There's definitely a place for boutique, luxury items, but it feels like we're seeing an awful lot of these, and they're pushing the prices of similar games up. FFG has two different Star Wars games now that have sticker prices of $100, with plenty of expansions on the way. I wonder if they'd be doing that if huge Kickstarters weren't a thing.

I'm not worried as there are a bunch of great games coming out through normal channels every month. There are tons of $40 games.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:03 pm

One more stretch goal to go with less than an hour, this is pretty cool and unexpected.

Presenting iSkelos, the digital Conan companion app! Available on iOS and Android, this app will allow you to:

Consult the Conan rulebooks including any updates or changes.
Serve as a digital, fully interactive Book of Skelos during your games!
Consult our online scenario database to get new official and fan made scenarios whenever the adventuring mood takes you. The app will even automatically set up your book of Skelos depending on the scenario!

Chrisoc13 · Post by **Chrisoc13** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:09 pm

I'm really a fan of all game types, euro games with wodden cubes and ameritrash heavily themed games with piles of plastic, but I'm pretty much done with plastic kickstarters because of... Myth.

Truth is $100-$200 is NOT a normal price still for games. It is only a normal price for huge plastic mini kickstarters. Even well themed plastic games that are not on Kickstarter are not hitting $100 every time.

For instance- Zombicide was one of the first huge ones on kickstarter. The base games are now $60-70 on Amazon right now. Yet the kickstarter was easily $100+. You overpay for these kickstarters for the extras, the survivors, the extra zombies you don't really need, the dice etc.

Another example:
Galaxy Defenders $60-75. The kickstarter? Easily over $100. Again a huge tons of plastic game, much cheaper off the kickstarter.

I recently have been given two FFG well themed games for gifts (birthday and anniversary) and these were-
- Imperial Assault (tons of plastic bits and pieces, well themed) and it is $66 on amazon right now (sure MSRP is $100 but nobody pays that)
- XCOM (lots of beautiful plastic pieces) is $60 MSRP and $45 on amazon. Very reasonable for a game produced at FFG levels with lots of plastic.

So I wouldn't use the crazy expensive kickstarters as any sort of standard. Fact is one thing I have learned during kickstarters is that unless I really love the game or want to support the idea, I will be vastly overpaying for a game on kickstarter to get lots of exclusive extra pieces that may or may not be play tested well -- or at all really. I've fallen prey to the plastic gods on kickstarter because I love those style of games, but having been burned now I will only back a big budget game I really know I will love (as in I have tried it before or one by the designer) that I absolutely KNOW I want the KS exclusives and extras from. Otherwise I am better served waiting for those games to hit shelves, get reviewed, and then buying the base game for much, much cheaper, and expanding if necessary later. Again, thank you Myth for that important lesson.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:11 pm

At some point the market will be sitting on a ton of plastic. I still need a reasonable storage solution for Zombicide. And I'll be swimming in Bones soon.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:13 pm

I wonder what the breakeven point would be to offer a recycling/new mini exchange?

Trade in three Bones minis, get one of equal or smaller size in return.