[kickstarter] [boardgame] Dark Souls

[Daehawk]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/st ... me/updates

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/20/ ... ee-minutes

They were looking for $70,000 and got $450,000 in the first 3 minutes. The next 26 days or so is all stretch goal filler

[hepcat]

It looks pretty, but it looks like there's only 36 encounter cards in the game. That seems rather limited to me. I'm wary that this is going to end up being simply a cash in on the name. Definitely going to keep my eye on it, though.

[Smoove_B]

For backers that have never been part of a Kickstarter before and are only joining because of their experience with the video game, I'm guessing they're going to experience a whole new level of unbelievable frustration.

[coopasonic]

I see the "first created" tag... and a starting price of about $115. Ha, ha.. no.

[AWS260]

For backers that have never been part of a Kickstarter before and are only joining because of their experience with the video game, I'm guessing they're going to experience a whole new level of unbelievable frustration.

And it's the publisher's first Kickstarter. I wish them all the best.

[Blackhawk]

$115 plus international (probably) shipping for a board game? Are the dice carved out of diamonds?

[Smoove_B]

$100 seems to be the new baseline price for any game containing miniatures.

[Lordnine]

I’ve been spoiled by CMON, you might pay $100 for the baseline but you’re going to get a hundred+ highly detailed models for your investment!

Although, I guess looking at those stretch goals, this is starting to get there…

[Smoove_B]

What I've learned in the last two years is that it's not just the people creating the game that are critically important (and whatever experience they bring). If you take a quality design, models and artwork and hand them off to a middle-tier manufacturer in China, it's going to be a mess. Recently, I'm looking at that right now with MERCS Recon and Dungeon Saga - both used the same Chinese manufacturer and the quality control is awful. The components are definitely of lower quality than I would have expected and there are all kinds of cosmetic issues associated with both. People keep pressing the Folklore Addiction guys for information on their manufacturer and I haven't seen them confirm anything yet. Flying Frog is another one, having apparently shifted from plastic to resin models for the next wave of figures. So yeah, for this the mock ups for the Dark Souls game might look great, but if they cheap out on manufacturing? Look out.

[Lordnine]

The components are definitely of lower quality than I would have expected and there are all kinds of cosmetic issues associated with both. People keep pressing the Folklore Addiction guys for information on their manufacturer and I haven't seen them confirm anything yet.

That makes me sad with Folklore. I'm still hoping it turns out well but I’m happy I took a wait and see approach instead of backing that one.

My backing history is still pretty good, 22 board games backed and only one disaster.

[hepcat]

I'm a backer for Folklore. As long as the game's mechanics are solid, and the miniatures don't all look like Michael Ironside, I'm not terribly worried about their quality. I guess having recently gotten into miniature gaming a few years back, and seeing what even one model can cost, 100 bucks for 50 to 100 models in a game still seems like a steal to me.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, it's just difficult when everything is a mock-up or a 3D rendering and when you actually receive it, the difference is quite large. Like for this Dark Souls board game, everything is is a 3D rendering. Now, are they going to be able to cast those figures in plastic or resin as modeled or will they need to be assembled? If they're going to be assembled, they need to let people know that now. Or will they be reducing quality of sculpts to keep assembly minimal or non-existent? Above and beyond the models, the tiles too - you get what you pay for and I'm in the club that has about six MERCS recon tiles that apparently weren't manufactured correctly so my edges are already pulling apart.

With the Folklore model renderings, they pushed out samples the other day to the masses and there was a pretty big discrepancy between the art work provided during the KS and what they were proposing for actual models. That sets off my spidey-senses as a possible red flag. Extending the pledge manager 2 months to allow people that missed the KS the ability to pre-order? Another possible red flag. Are they going to be thinner, cheaper tiles like Brimstone or thicker-cut tiles like Myth?

Anyway, none of that matters for Dark Souls but as a game that reached their pledge goal in a few hours on day one, this has potential to balloon into a KS nightmare. I mean, they set it succeed at $70K and it's about to cross $1 million. They're going to be under the microscope for a long time...

[Daehawk]

If a place positively could not spend what they get would they then give the extra back and if so how would it be given back fairly?

If I was making a board game and needed $70k I have no idea in hell what Id do with that much over it.

[Smoove_B]

Well, I think everyone is about to find out what happens when a project overfunds on day 2. Will scope-creep occur and the game will start to balloon in size, ultimately delaying release? Will money be reinvested in production? More artists? Higher quality components? I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.

If a place positively could not spend what they get would they then give the extra back and if so how would it be given back fairly?

Give money back? So this is the first time you're closely following a KS project, eh?

[hepcat]

Shadows of Brimstone was my first experience with that...or was it Myth?

[Lordnine]

If a place positively could not spend what they get would they then give the extra back and if so how would it be given back fairly?

If I was making a board game and needed $70k I have no idea in hell what Id do with that much over it.

Check out The Others for an example of overfunding done right. They set their goal at 100k funded in less than an hour, and raised almost 1.5 million. In their case, they released 5 hefty expansions as part of the base pledge for everyone who backed the project. This dropped the price per model down to about 20 cents. Now this is pretty much the gold standard for Kickstarter.

CMON is a bit of an exception though because they have done this many times. Their products usually ship late but the quality of components is probably the best you will find outside of Games Workshop.

Now examples of overfunding gone wrong is the polar opposite. I’ve seen instances of companies make 2x or 3x what they asked for, promised to upgrade everything while including extras, and then run out of money before the product ever shipped. In a couple of these cases, people are still waiting for a finished product.

You have to remember, backing a Kickstarter is NOT a preorder. There is a chance you get nothing, and as long as the company shows that they at least tried to deliver the product, there isn’t much you can do about it to get your money back.

[hepcat]

I will probably buy The Others when it hits retail. That looks like a blast.

[Chrisoc13]

This is going to be a rude introduction to the pitfalls of kickstarter for all involved I'm guessing. I now cringe when a project has too many stretch goals. Cmon can usually pull it off though. But still... As a rule I try not to back first created projects with none backed. That's just a sign of not knowing the real issues that lie ahead.

To be fair this one has backed projects but none of them are real impressive at first glance.

I've been in several projects like this that fund immediately. It's not unusual for a big game as all of us kickstarter vets know despite the tone from ign. Cmon can pull it off, but still there are delays and mistakes. But I've also been in it with mercs, and they are a good example of not pulling it off and a project getting beyond them.

Good luck to those in this kickstarter. I hope it isn't full of pitfalls. I don't see a rulebook available, that's another huge potential issue fyi. And the publisher has one other game to their name... Another red flag for me. Also no designer I can find... I'll pass. Too many reservations to pay a premium for and deal with delays to take that risk. If the reviews are great I'll look to pick it up for 40% less later.

[Daehawk]

That Others looks like a very high quality product.

[Lordnine]

Just a heads up, if you have Table Top Simulator, some people have translated the boss encounter into a playable version. Doesn’t look pretty but would give you an idea of what to expect from the full game.