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Mansions of Madness - second edition

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Daveman
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Daveman » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:28 pm

There will sometimes be monster attacks or mythos events that say something like "Suffer 3 damage (*Lore Icon* negates). Or any of the other character attributes like Strength or Agility. This means the character should "test" his Lore attribute by rolling dice equal to his Lore rating. Every success will "negate" some of the 3 damage. So if you had 3 Lore you'd roll 3 dice. Say you roll 1 success, 1 "investigation" (the magnifying lens icon) and 1 blank. You would then "negate" 1 point of that 3 damage, or 2 points if you have a clue token and spend it to convert the investigation into a success.

Sometimes the app will say "*Lore Icon* -1" or maybe "+1". In those cases, you'd roll 1 less (or more) die than your Lore attribute.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:08 pm

OK, I'm not getting the attraction with this game or either we aren't doing something right.

It took us 4 attempts to get through the easy scenario.

The board changed every time, but the story is the same. By the end of the last play through, we were all ready to be done with it.

Additionally, it takes a good hour or longer of just searching tables or paintings or what not, to even get anything done. And we all have like 10 cards we have to remember what their actions are?

Honestly, we were bored silly and I'm wondering if we are missing something.

Search, search, explore evade monster...rinse and repeat the same story over again.

Is this indeed what I paid so much for with this game?

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:29 pm

You're playing it right, but it sounds like you went into this expecting an action oriented game. That is not this. This a game of investigation and storytelling. It's more like the Call of Cthulhu rpg. There is action, yes. But for fans of the game, it's the things you found boring that make it so much fun for us.

You can probably eBay it and get some of your money back, though.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:15 pm

hepcat wrote:You're playing it right, but it sounds like you went into this expecting an action oriented game. That is not this. This a game of investigation and storytelling. It's more like the Call of Cthulhu rpg. There is action, yes. But for fans of the game, it's the things you found boring that make it so much fun for us.

You can probably eBay it and get some of your money back, though.
Perhaps...

Me and the wife are going to give it another go with a different scenario.

Don't want to give up on it just yet.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:37 am

I wasn't trying to be an ass about it, by the way. Sorry if it came across as such. I just wanted to stress that the game isn't your typical dungeon crawl type game. Lovecraft's word is decidedly unfair towards humans, so fighting is rarely the best choice. :wink:
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:26 pm

hepcat wrote:I wasn't trying to be an ass about it, by the way. Sorry if it came across as such. I just wanted to stress that the game isn't your typical dungeon crawl type game. Lovecraft's word is decidedly unfair towards humans, so fighting is rarely the best choice. :wink:
Oh no, totally got what you were saying.

We played a different scenario last night and while it was better than the other, it still didn't keep our interest much.

Probably will look to trade or sell it.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:36 am

OK, still trying to get all the rules down and I have a question.

Everyone starts with 2 search tokens and I know you get more on occasion when completing searches. However, is there other ways to gain them?

I played solo earlier today and quickly ran out of tokens and didn't get more. The board was set up that I really didn't have any moves left. I actually grabbed a couple tokens so I could search and move forward with the game.

Is there any other way to get search tokens? Or is this a strategy and you shouldn't be using them to resolve an action, but save them for actual searching?

I could use any tips or hints.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Daveman » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:03 am

There's no regular way to get more clue tokens. There are some characters with abilities that can grant them clue tokens but that's it. Your only other source is whatever the scenario gives you through exploration.

When we realized how scarce the tokens can be we started to not use them early on and try to save them for what we hope are more critical moments. But attacking some monster or trying to negate a little damage early on, when we're in good condition... don't use clue tokens then.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:31 am

Xmann wrote:I played solo earlier today and quickly ran out of tokens and didn't get more. The board was set up that I really didn't have any moves left. I actually grabbed a couple tokens so I could search and move forward with the game.
Wait a second - you're using the green magnifying glass clue tokens to search or interact with the yellow question mark or red lamp tokens? Interacting with the tokens doesn't cost anything - you can activate them via the app and open the information text associated with them. After doing so, there's usually an option to interact with the token by spending an action (the arrow in the circle). Spending the action will typically require that you make a skill check (rolling dice). It's only after you roll the dice that you'd use a clue token - to modify the number of successes you have. More specifically, the clue token converts 1 magnifying glass result (investigation result) on the die to a success result (elder sign). You can spend as many clue tokens as you have to modify as many investigation results.

Was that clear or did I just confuse things more? Rodney does a really good review of the basics in his Watch it Played series. He really knows what he's talking aboot - I'm a fan.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:09 pm

Yeah, that would severely gimp your game. Now I think I understand why you're not having fun with it. :wink:
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:49 pm

lol, Eureka!!

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:20 pm

What Lies Within released today for $5.
A murder in Southside leaves a home abandoned–except for the strange noises coming from the cellar…

What Lies Within is a scenario for 1-5 investigators in which a murder is only the beginning of the inexplicable occurrences in one Arkham mansion. Investigators will explore a murder scene, fend off terrible creatures, encounter strange phenomena, and investigate the noises coming from the cellar of the supposedly empty house. They must discover why the victim was murdered–and what he did with his life before it was so violently ended–in order to leave the mansion alive.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:30 pm

Bought it. 5 bucks still seems a bit steep for a 2 to 3 hour scenario after all the money I sunk into this game though.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:30 am

Is this another scenario added to the app?

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:30 am

Yeah, you can buy it from within the app. Just click on new game and scroll through the scenarios. It's the last one.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:42 pm

Just watched Rodney and yes, we were doing lots of things wrong.

Going to play through again today.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:08 pm

What else were you doing wrong?
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:41 pm

Horror checks. We were doing the horror check on the investigators horror level and not the monster.

During the Mythos stage, we weren't property moving the monsters as directed.

Plus, add in not using the search tokens correctly.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:34 pm

The other common mistakes with the horror checks is doing too many. When it comes time to do a horror check you look at all the monsters that are in range to the players and you only do a horror check against the one with the highest value. Additionally, if investigators are all checking against a single creature, you generate the horror check via the app and every investigator resolves horror against the one creature. I think some people were generating horror checks for each investigator using the same creature, over and over.

Also, range is weird. It's not true line of sight - it's three spaces, including going around corners. Line of sight is only broken by doorways. I think it speeds things up.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:58 pm

Smoove_B wrote:The other common mistakes with the horror checks is doing too many. When it comes time to do a horror check you look at all the monsters that are in range to the players and you only do a horror check against the one with the highest value. Additionally, if investigators are all checking against a single creature, you generate the horror check via the app and every investigator resolves horror against the one creature. I think some people were generating horror checks for each investigator using the same creature, over and over.

Also, range is weird. It's not true line of sight - it's three spaces, including going around corners. Line of sight is only broken by doorways. I think it speeds things up.
That's exactly what we were doing with horror checks.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:04 pm

It's definitely a fiddly game - and quite punishing. But once you get the rules down and understand the quirks, I've found it to be enjoyable. I've played 3 games now and only won the intro scenario. But it really is the closest thing I've ever played that reminds me of running the Call of Cthulhu RPG in my parent's basement.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:33 pm

Wait...I've been having investigators make horror checks against the monster with the highest horror rating in range. But I've made them make individual horror checks against that creature. Are you saying you're only supposed to generate one horror check from the app and everyone rolls against that single check?
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:52 pm

hepcat wrote:Are you saying you're only supposed to generate one horror check from the app and everyone rolls against that single check?
Yes, that's how I understand it. One horror check is generated from the app and it's applied one by one to all the investigators in range. Here's the rules reference:
During the horror step, each investigator resolves a horror check against a monster within range by selecting the monster from the monster drawer and resolving the effect generated by the app.

• If multiple monsters are within range of an investigator, he resolves a horror check against only the monster with the highest horror rating.
• If no monsters are within range of an investigator, he does not resolve a horror check.
• If multiple investigators would resolve a horror check against the same monster, those investigators all resolve the same horror check.
The way you're doing it makes the game longer and harder (I think). Thematically I think it make sense this way as the single Horror Check generates a description of something happening and then each investigator would react to that one thing the creature does.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:56 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
hepcat wrote:Are you saying you're only supposed to generate one horror check from the app and everyone rolls against that single check?
Yes, that's how I understand it. One horror check is generated from the app and it's applied one by one to all the investigators in range. Here's the rules reference:
During the horror step, each investigator resolves a horror check against a monster within range by selecting the monster from the monster drawer and resolving the effect generated by the app.

• If multiple monsters are within range of an investigator, he resolves a horror check against only the monster with the highest horror rating.
• If no monsters are within range of an investigator, he does not resolve a horror check.
• If multiple investigators would resolve a horror check against the same monster, those investigators all resolve the same horror check.
The way you're doing it makes the game longer and harder (I think). Thematically I think it make sense this way as the single Horror Check generates a description of something happening and then each investigator would react to that one thing the creature does.
That's what I was doing until I watched the youtube tutorial and Rodney explained everyone rolls against the single check.

We've been doing lots wrong and it's no wonder we were ready to not play anymore.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:57 pm

And what's within range?

3 moves? Is that the range?

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:10 pm

Range is within three spaces - even around a corner. So if you can count 1,2,3 and touch the monster (or investigator) like you were moving, they're in range. *Unless* it involves going through a doorway. Open or closed, doorways stop the ability for attacks to occur.

This is pretty unusual for a gaming system but I think it was done to simplify what can sometimes be annoying Line-of-Sight rules. Remember, at its heart, Mansions of Madness isn't a tactical miniatures fighting game. Once the fighting starts in this game, something has likely gone very wrong. :D

The rule we were playing wrong involves when you're told you must turn over Horror or Wound cards (as a game effect, combat or as the result of a failed skill check). If the game told us to flip over three face-down Horror cards, we'd randomly select one, turn it over, resolve it and then shuffle everything up again and randomly select the next one. Sometimes in resolving the first one, you'd be told to flip over another face down card so we'd then jump to resolving that and then back to the original path. As it turns out, when the game tells you to resolve face down cards, you do it all at once. So if you only have three and the game tells you to resolve 3 face down cards, turn them all over at the same time. If any of those cards tell you to then resolve another face-down Horror card you can't - because you turned all your cards face up first.

The way we were playing was way more brutal but it was an official answer from FFG. You always want to resolve face-down cards randomly, but when you're ordered to do multiples they should all be done simultaneously.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:48 am

Just ran into another scenario

"The Deep One moves 2 spaces toward the nearest investigator. Then it attacks the investigator in its space who has suffered the least damage"

In this scenario, my investigator and my wife's are the same distance and with the same amount of damage. Who does the monster attack?

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Daveman » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:40 am

I don't have the rules in front of me but there's a line in there about players deciding amongst themselves what to do in situations like that. So it's your choice who the monster attacks if there's a tie for whatever condition the app spells out (closest investigator, highest Lore, etc.)

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:59 am

Smoove_B wrote:
hepcat wrote:Are you saying you're only supposed to generate one horror...
• If multiple investigators would resolve a horror check against the same monster, those investigators all resolve the same horror check.
.
Ah, then I have been doing it wrong as I missed that rule. Nothing that would break the game, but it did make sessions a bit longer. Thanks! RMC and some home town friends are playing Friday during our annual Holiday gaming session, so this comes in the nick of time.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:14 am

Xmann wrote:In this scenario, my investigator and my wife's are the same distance and with the same amount of damage. Who does the monster attack?
Daveman answered your attack question (at some point, we just started flipping a token to determine who the creature would attack), but the "same amount of damage" or "most damage" is another rule quirk that we were playing wrong. After your damage cards match your health, you're supposed to clear them all and take a random injury card. The next time your damage cards match your character's health, that's it - they're dead. What we were doing is counting that injury card as a "banked" set of damage. So if my character's health is 6 and I have an injury card plus two wounds, we were saying that character has the most amount of damage - or more damage than another character that just has two damage cards. However, we were overthinking it and making it much harder. When the game tells you to compare damage between characters (to determine which is affected) you don't count the injury card - just count the current number of damage cards they have (up and down) and compare them.

And remember, whenever you're instructed to take a damage or horror card, they are always face-up -- unless otherwise instructed.

Apparently after 14+ hours of playing the game, I'm actually retaining something. :D

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Xmann » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:20 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Xmann wrote:In this scenario, my investigator and my wife's are the same distance and with the same amount of damage. Who does the monster attack?
Daveman answered your attack question (at some point, we just started flipping a token to determine who the creature would attack), but the "same amount of damage" or "most damage" is another rule quirk that we were playing wrong. After your damage cards match your health, you're supposed to clear them all and take a random injury card. The next time your damage cards match your character's health, that's it - they're dead. What we were doing is counting that injury card as a "banked" set of damage. So if my character's health is 6 and I have an injury card plus two wounds, we were saying that character has the most amount of damage - or more damage than another character that just has two damage cards. However, we were overthinking it and making it much harder. When the game tells you to compare damage between characters (to determine which is affected) you don't count the injury card - just count the current number of damage cards they have (up and down) and compare them.

And remember, whenever you're instructed to take a damage or horror card, they are always face-up -- unless otherwise instructed.

Apparently after 14+ hours of playing the game, I'm actually retaining something. :D
Just to clarify, because this came up last night too...

My wife was wounded and we had to do a horror check with the person with the most damage. Do you simply just count the damage cards and go with whoever has the most or do you into account the person who has been wounded?

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:40 am

Xmann wrote:My wife was wounded and we had to do a horror check with the person with the most damage. Do you simply just count the damage cards and go with whoever has the most or do you into account the person who has been wounded?
Just count the damage cards - both those that are face up and face down. A wound (or insane) card doesn't represent anything other than you're almost dead. :D

I think some of the examples in the rulebook are wonky, which caused the confusion when it was first released.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by YellowKing » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:54 pm

I think this is next on my "buy" list. I own the first edition and played it one time. I refused to buy the second edition out of principle, but the more I read about it (and knowing it would let me finally play the game solo if nothing else), I became more convinced it would be worth the purchase. My group's not big on asymmetrical games, but I think they'd eat this up with the app running the show. I'll look for it after the holidays when the stores get stocked back up.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Daveman » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:48 pm

It's a fairly small nitpick, but after recently playing through some Descent and checking out my new copy of Doom, I really, REALLY wish they'd put numbers on the room tiles for this game. I know it certainly sounds better to say "place the ballroom" rather than "place B2" but it's a real pain looking through them in comparison.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Isgrimnur » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:10 pm

Sounds like you should put together a list and share it with the BGG community.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:13 pm

The app would need to call them out by tile number for it to be any useful. It's definitely a minor nitpick and something that it noticeably different in the Decent app, but I'm guessing it was a decision based on the number tiles available for both. If this second edition game continues to grow, they might indeed start numbering tiles in future reprints.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by hepcat » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:12 pm

Held my annual holiday gaming session yesterday at my father's house in Ohio. We ended up playing Mansions of Madness all day. Two scenarios. I felt kind of bad though as we failed both of them. Still, I enjoyed the heck out of it. On the last scenario of the night, we suddenly realized that if we'd just taken a different turn at one point, we could've won it. Although RMC and a childhood friend of mine actually did win thanks to insanity cards with win conditions based on something other than completing the investigation.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by YellowKing » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:06 am

And.....I'm weak. Friendly local game store had this in stock, I had Christmas money in my pocket, and it was just too tempting to resist. I think this it the most I've ever paid for a game, analog or otherwise, but the ability to play it solo combined with the theme combined with the cool miniatures means I'll be spending many an hour with this.

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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by AWS260 » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:45 pm

I received this for Xmas, and have played through three scenarios so far (Cycle of Eternity, Escape from Innsmouth, What Lies Within). Some impressions compared to the first edition:

Pro
Combat and horror checks are so much better than in the first edition -- not just mechanically streamlined, but more atmospheric and engaging.

The writing in the scenarios is consistently good. I was concerned that the app would make the narrative beats feel like busywork, but the opposite is true -- each question mark on the board/screen is a (usually) juicy little morsel of story that pulls you forward.

Con
The monsters in the second edition are pretty lame compared to the first edition. Fish-man! Half-fish-man! Cthulu, but with wings and human arms! Thankfully, I have the first edition monsters to add to the mix -- give me a Cthonian or Shoggoth any day.

I kind of miss the adversarial design of the first edition. Winning against your spouse is just more gratifying than winning against an app.
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Re: Mansions of Madness - second edition

Post by Smoove_B » Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:25 pm

AWS260 wrote:I kind of miss the adversarial design of the first edition. Winning against your spouse is just more gratifying than winning against an app.
At the risk of giving just a little spoiler, with 3+ players there are ways to have adversarial wins. I don't think it's possible with 2, but I haven't checked. Granted, it's not 100% the same as beating a "Game Master", but you can't always trust your friends...

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