Octopus Overlords

Smoove_B wrote:Good to see board game pricing follows the same logic as video games now. Pre-order? $99. Today? It's $78 Amazon Prime.

The risk with games is that they will go out of print. So scarcity is why you'd pre-order.

That said. I like the idea. I'd bite but $80 is too much to essentially supplement a game I already own. I never could bite on Descent for much the same reason. Especially after seeing the AARs and to see who small of a scope the campaigns really are.

If I were a richer man, I'd really enjoy FFGs developing vision and I'd support it but even though I'm considered a relatively good income earner, the price point for what is essentially DLC for what I already have is just too much, even if the physical materials and scale at which they were produced warrant the cost.

...

Also, to Daveman's review. In the original edition it was apparently fairly quickly that much of the game is puzzle solving and much of the puzzle solving is truth table/logic puzzles. You are balancing combats and sanity with gathering clues that allow more cracks at the logic puzzle to get to what an objective you have to learn.

I can't speak to the update.

....

I don't remember the secret objective. That makes me a little sad. This sounded like an interesting solo experience game but with individual secret objectives sort of ruin that.

Yeah, we decided to bite on it at that price.

Chaz wrote:Yeah, we decided to bite on it at that price.

Yeah, that is at least $20 less than any other place and $30 less than it was yesterday. I picked it up too.

LordMortis wrote:Also, to Daveman's review. In the original edition it was apparently fairly quickly that much of the game is puzzle solving and much of the puzzle solving is truth table/logic puzzles. You are balancing combats and sanity with gathering clues that allow more cracks at the logic puzzle to get to what an objective you have to learn.

I can't speak to the update.

Not spoiling much, and as far as I know things might have played out differently based on our choices, but puzzles only came up once in our intro scenario, near the end. It was a Codebreakers-like puzzle that had 5 characters, 5 choices per character. As an action, a player at the location could make X attempts at it, where X was your characters Observation skill level. That was entirely run on the app. You would enter a guess, and the app would report how many exact matches you made, and how many symbols were correct, but in the wrong position. From the rules there are a few other types of puzzles too.

We're in the middle of the 2nd scenario and puzzles haven't come up at all. In both there has been a lot of exploring... situations where you use an action to roll so many dice and input how many successes you rolled. You have no idea how many are needed, the app simply says you didn't find anything interesting... but if the explore icon remains then you're able to keep looking until you hit the magic number of successes. Both games have been a blast and very different in how they play out.

Combat is largely handled by the app and it's been pretty fun. If you're in a position to attack an enemy you select it from a list of spawned enemies and select "attack". You're then given a list of options and you choose one that fits whatever items you have and want to use. The options are heavy weapon, bladed weapon, ranged weapon, spell or unarmed. The app then gives a DM-lite explanation like "You swing your weapon in a circle before bringing it crashing down on your target" while presenting you with a skill check to see if you hit or miss. I'm not sure how much of it is random or if there's more under the hood going on. I had a really hard time evading a flying snake monster which makes sense since it looks like a fast, slippery opponent, while evading a Cultist was much easier.

Sometimes the skill check it gives you doesn't work out so well. In our current game my son went to use a spell hoping it would ask for a Will check, but it asked for Lore instead which he had a low score in. The next spell I cast asked for Lore. The funniest "attack" I made was an unarmed attack against a cultist. I was expecting a Strength or Agility check but instead the app said "You put up your hands and challenge your opponent to fisticuffs." and asked for an Influence check. I passed and the result was something along the lines of your offer confusing/puzzling the cultist so you use that chance to sucker punch him!

...and they've already announced two add on kits (more figures and tiles):





I don't know for sure, but it seems like one of the kits rounds out the missing 1st edition materials (for people just starting with 2nd edition) and the other is a mix of stuff from the Hidden Alchemy and Call of the Wild expansions for the 1st edition.

The monsters shown are from the 1st edition (top) and Call of the Wild expansion (bottom).

That's exciting, because I've got the base game, but neither of the expansions. I wonder what the retail's going to be on those.

Based on the price of the base set for the 2nd edition, I'm guessing $40 or close to it.

Fair warning about the app. Supposedly there's a patch out for the Steam version (not on the App Store as of yet) that fixes some things but it advises that there are issues with saved games and suggests players play a scenario in one session rather than save.

We were well into the 2nd scenario Friday and saved. We went to resume tonight and while the game loads we can't scroll around and all icons/buttons except the main menu button don't respond.

That stinks. Saving sessions was going to be a super valuable feature for us with a newborn in the house.

Just found out about a coupon code for Barnes and Noble that gives you a one-time 40% off anything they sell. Sure enough, I just picked up the second edition box for $64 (free shipping, tax added). In your face Asmodee! Here's the coupon code for anyone still on the fence:

Chaz wrote:That's exciting, because I've got the base game, but neither of the expansions. I wonder what the retail's going to be on those.

They're shipping now and the FFG website lists them as a retail price of $49.99 each. That seems...expensive.

I agree, especially since most, if not all of the cards, tokens, and monster inserts come with the First Edition Conversion kit in the core set. These expansions should just be the minis and room tiles.

Daveman wrote:I agree, especially since most, if not all of the cards, tokens, and monster inserts come with the First Edition Conversion kit in the core set. These expansions should just be the minis and room tiles.

I'm pretty sure they are just the minis and room tiles.

Chaz wrote:

Daveman wrote:I agree, especially since most, if not all of the cards, tokens, and monster inserts come with the First Edition Conversion kit in the core set. These expansions should just be the minis and room tiles.

I'm pretty sure they are just the minis and room tiles.

Given the rather underwhelming quality of MoM miniatures, that only reinforces the exorbitant nature of FFG's pricing.

As someone that owns the first edition, I'm quite curious to see how the 2nd edition miniatures compare. I don't think the 1st edition figures are anything special so it's possible expectations for a $100 game are much higher. I'm also not opposed just just using the tiles (as suggested on BGG) if that means getting it to the table faster.

Theoretically, since you already have the monster tokens and investigator cards in the base set, you could just use the tokens on the board for the monsters, and when the app tells you to use one of the expansion tiles, draw the outlines of the spaces on a piece of paper to use on the board. Won't look nearly as nice, but would save you $50.

Since I've only got the base 1st edition set, I would like the second of the two expansion boxes. I'll be watching to see what the prices wind up being, and whether they come out with more free (or cheap) scenarios. I know they're doing one for each of the boxes, but I'd like a bit more to justify the price.

Smoove_B wrote:As someone that owns the first edition, I'm quite curious to see how the 2nd edition miniatures compare.

Most reviews I've seen and read seem to indicate the quality of the second edition MoM miniatures are decidedly substandard, e.g.:

BoardGameGeek.com wrote:Wha's up with the Miniatures?

But unfortunately the produciton value lacks this time and is not on par with other games from FFG like Descent or Battlelore. This is mostly due to the quality of the miniatures. Tiles, tokens, artwork and cards are as beautiful as expected, but the miniatures surely don't hold up with what a company like FGG is capable of in 2016, both in quality and design. The investigators lack detail, the Hunting Horror is a joke and by no means menacing and the Star Spawn, while enourmous in size, is undynamic and boring in posture. Look at how even standard monsters are designed in Descent and you'll see the difference. It boggles the mind how such a decrease in design and execution was possible.

Yeah, I've seen that but then there are other people that claim they're of the same quality as the original models. Maybe there are bad batches out there and Q/C is poor, but I'm very curious to see them myself. I'll certainly update this thread with my impressions when the game arrives.

It's pretty awesome when you dig your original Mansions of Madness game out of the deep storage closet to compare it to the second edition...and not a single miniature from the first edition box is anywhere to be found. I have no idea where they are and I think I'm ready to finally admit that maybe I have a problem with gaming and my collection. Granted, it's probably been 4+ years since I've opened the 1st edition box, but still...

Just pray they didn't disappear under their own power.

I found them after some more searching last night. They were buried in a giant plastic bin that is completely filled with HeroScape materials (i.e. my retirement plan). I'm going to take some photos this weekend, but overall it looks like the 2nd edition monster/creature molds are of higher quality than the 1st edition. The 1st edition characters might be of better quality than the included 2nd edition figures, but getting a 1:1 comparison will be difficult. But the difference between the 1st and 2nd edition cultists is quite noticeable - they have much better detailing or mold lines (whatever the correct term is).

I think you're the first person I've heard who prefers the second edition monsters. I don't really care much either way, but I do hate the size of the bases. I might go ahead and order the clear bases and start gluing.

Chaz wrote:I think you're the first person I've heard who prefers the second edition monsters. I don't really care much either way, but I do hate the size of the bases. I might go ahead and order the clear bases and start gluing.

I'm going to take a much deeper look and take photos, but that was my quick impression. Without question the 2nd edition cultists are better. I still don't know much about figures or materials, but they're absolutely different levels/grades of plastic. The 1st edition monsters look and feel "softer" - the lines aren't as deep and there are fewer details. Maybe I have a bad 1st edition batch but I'll follow up.

My buddy started painting already and he's indicated that he really likes the the clear bases:

My first game features hunting horrors. It's pretty ridiculous to have those those wormy little things sitting in the middle of a massive base like that. Plus then the base covers 75% of the tile art of the room it's in, which is lame.

Smoove_B wrote:

Picked up copies of both expansions from my FLGS today. They run a big event for Bilbo's birthday (supposedly it's today?) with a sale and a secret bonus off at checkout. Got them both 20% off.

I'm not happy with the "boxes". The outside is just a light card stock wrap around a cardboard insert that gives it some rigidity and holds the punch boards and minis in place. I made a foam core insert for the base set and was hoping to use these expansion boxes for more storage. I'm looking into rebasing the monsters so I'll probably want to come up with another solution anyway, but the boxes certainly looked like they'd be nice addition. Oh well.

The minis feel like they're a more rigid plastic and the player characters look a little more detailed that those in the base set. The minis for the Witches are a very... interesting take on the character.

Daveman wrote: The minis feel like they're a more rigid plastic and the player characters look a little more detailed that those in the base set. The minis for the Witches are a very... interesting take on the character.

You mean the shy witches who forgot their tops? I suggest not leaving them on their bases. I painted and glued them from the first edition game and their legs are so thin that they quickly bent and now look like limbo champions.

Played a two player game with Seppe yesterday and I had a freakin' blast. Then today I played a solo game of Descent 2nd edition Road to Legend with the app and had even more fun. I'm definitely on board with this trend of replacing the Overlords type player with an app. I think I'll set up a Halloween game of MoM at the next Octocon in October.

I also think I'm going to set up a game of it with red warlord using FaceTime as he moved to China last month and is felling pretty isolated. If I set this up right, we can play.

hepcat wrote:
I also think I'm going to set up a game of it with red warlord using FaceTime as he moved to China last month and is felling pretty isolated. If I set this up right, we can play.

I believe the new edition is also on Table Top Simulator if that works better for you, the app is available in-game on one of the digital iPADs.

I just sent him a copy of Tabletop Simulator too. Excellent!

Smoove_B wrote:Yeah, I've seen that but then there are other people that claim they're of the same quality as the original models. Maybe there are bad batches out there and Q/C is poor, but I'm very curious to see them myself. I'll certainly update this thread with my impressions when the game arrives.

An Asmodee published game with poor Quality Control? Say it isn't so.

hepcat wrote:Played a two player game with Seppe yesterday and I had a freakin' blast. Then today I played a solo game of Descent 2nd edition Road to Legend with the app and had even more fun. I'm definitely on board with this trend of replacing the Overlords type player with an app. I think I'll set up a Halloween game of MoM at the next Octocon in October.

I also think I'm going to set up a game of it with red warlord using FaceTime as he moved to China last month and is felling pretty isolated. If I set this up right, we can play.

I hope to make it and see how these games work. I really wanted to take the plunge on Descent but so much of the new edition is out of print and impossible to get and so much is so expensive and it didn't look like they really had a huge amount of scenarios to go in their campaign. Once I put it all together, I just couldn't warrant the cost to the projected amount of enjoyment for a dynamic that is completely unknown to me. MoM is the same realm. These games are just too expensive to not comprehend what you are getting ahead of time for my blood.

LordMortis wrote:An Asmodee published game with poor Quality Control? Say it isn't so.

Hmmm...I thought I posted an update, but maybe I'm getting threads confused. At least as far as my figures go, the 2nd edition figures have deeper, more defined details than the 1st edition figures. The plastic for the 2nd edition feels less "bendy" but it could also be the nature of the figures that have been molded. The only ones that have a 1:1 comparison are the cultists and the 2nd edition cultist staves don't bend as easily as the 1st edition. The biggest difference is the mold lines and the flash on the 2nd edition - it's much worse.

I'm not using the supplied bases (I hate them) so I can't really comment either way. I did see a thread on BGG that the bases for one of the 2nd edition expansions were drilled incorrectly and it's impossible to mount the monster's pegs into the holes because they don't line up. I don't know if it is for all of that monsters bases or the person sharing just had a bad batch, but he did confirm a conversation with Asmodee ended with them telling him nothing would be done about it.

Smoove_B wrote:

LordMortis wrote:An Asmodee published game with poor Quality Control? Say it isn't so.

Hmmm...I thought I posted an update, but maybe I'm getting threads confused.

I read the combination of posts and reports to say the QC is unreliable. You may get something great. You might get something horrible, which is precisely my experience with their games. "Hey, look. We accidentally released a batch of US games with German boards. They don't affect real play. So suck it up, buttercup."

This does serve as a reminder that I have an axe to grind and probably should stay away, even if I like the concept of board games supplemented by applications, especially for the solo experience.

I haven't received my MoM 2ed expansion (it's bundled with a pre-order on CSI so it hasn't shipped yet) but when it does come I'll update the thread again. I don't have Asmodee experience outside of their takeover of FFG but if their attitude is as you describe I can't imagine it's going to work out for them in the long run for gamers that had previously enjoyed FFG customer support.

LordMortis wrote:
I hope to make it and see how these games work. I really wanted to take the plunge on Descent but so much of the new edition is out of print and impossible to get and so much is so expensive

If you make it up, let me know. I was raving earlier about a game store I discovered a few weeks back that has almost all of the expansions at 30 percent off. Just let me know what you're looking for and I can grab them for you and bring them to Octocon.

side note: I was missing one token from my latest Descent expansion that I picked up last week. I submitted a ticket to Asmodee/FFG on their website on Saturday night. Yesterday I had the piece in hand. I hope that's a good sign of where they're going with customer support.

hepcat wrote:

LordMortis wrote:
I hope to make it and see how these games work. I really wanted to take the plunge on Descent but so much of the new edition is out of print and impossible to get and so much is so expensive

If you make it up, let me know. I was raving earlier about a game store I discovered a few weeks back that has almost all of the expansions at 30 percent off. Just let me know what you're looking for and I can grab them for you and bring them to Octocon.

I don't have any of the 2nd edition nor any of the conversion from the first edition. I do, however, have the entire first edition. Even the huge island map expansion for the expansion of the second Road to Legend campaign.

FFG's (Asmodee's?) customer service still seems to be good. A few weeks ago, I set up Rebellion for the first time, and found out that I was missing two of the decks of cards. I emailed them, and they sent out both decks no questions asked.

Two days after I submitted the request, I found the decks. Apparently I put them on the mantelpiece for some reason. So now I have an extra?

Slowly "find out" you're missing the rest of the game over the next month. Then send me everything once you're done.

Earlier this week they announced a "Delve" quest for the Descent app which looks like it's essentially a random dungeon creator rather than largely pre-defined scenarios. Really makes me more interested in giving Descent another try.

I think a lot of people like Mansions of Madness for the storylines rather than as a Lovecraft dungeon crawl, but I hope the MoM app gets a similar treatment.