Shuffling. Yes, cards.

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Blackhawk
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Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

Getting cards mixed up isn't an issue. I either riffle or overhand shuffle, depending on the cards (I never riffle board game cards after the initial shuffle when they're new, as it isn't great for them.) I'm thinking I might like to up my repertoire a bit, though, and learn some new - and more interesting - shuffles. I took a look around, and found about 40,000 different how-tos.

We have enough board and card gamers around here that I thought somebody might have a recommendation for a good or favorite source such that I might bypass a few false starts.
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Harkonis
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Harkonis »

I sleeve my cards, including board game cards, and tend to riffle shuffle them from the side. They mix better and don't get bent at all with this type of shuffle.

Don't have any fancy ways of doing shuffling myself, but thought I'd throw that out there since a lot of people seem to have some issues with sleeves and shuffling.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

I can't afford to sleeve my own games, but I've played with plenty of sleeved cards and it hasn't ever been an issue, really.

I'm looking more for shuffling techniques for traditional cards, anyway. I play a few games that use them, and I want to be able to have some fun with it.
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Harkonis
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Harkonis »

I'll see what I can find. Personally haven't done much with variation because I'm lucky I can shuffle at all with my arthritis.

FWIW I picked up a stupid number of good sleeves really cheap at Gencon. They have tons on clearance and without those discounts I would never be able to sleeve my games. $60 game takes $80-120 in retail sleeves to sleeve it up, kinda crazy. For $12 I bought enough Ultra Pro sleeves to sleeve Legendary which is 600 cards
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Blackhawk
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

That's a good deal (no pun intended.)

I have yet to lose a card in a game to damage, mostly because of my two rules - never riffle shuffle, and no open containers or food on the table while a game is out. I've got games that have been played regularly for six plus years that are in pristine condition.

Poking around I picked up the Hindu shuffle, and was reminded of another I actually do know (the Pharo shuffle), but never use because it is probably worse on cards than riffling.

This isn't any major thing, just something I've been curious about for a while that might be fun with some games I play. You see all these pros pull off these amazingly smooth, beautiful shuffles in a split second, then I go and overhand my way to mediocrity. I know they practice for years, but I have lots of cards and there is no reason I can't have one in-hand while I'm watching TV.
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Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

In my experience, it's best just to learn to how to table-riffle without any bending of the cards, which is entirely possible. Here's a great video that shows exactly how its done. Repeat at least five to seven times for maximum randomness (according to the advice from the Numberphile's video on The Best (and Worst) Ways to Shuffle Cards), and you're good to go.

It works for sleeved cards too, as shown in that video demonstration. But failing that, just use a Wash, aka Smooshing or a Corgi, as shown in the Numberphile video at 1:05; it may not be flashy or elegant, but it's much more random than pile shuffling, and putting the cards back in the right orientation doesn't take much longer than a many-pile shuffle anyway.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Smoove_B »

It probably doesn't help you in any way, but after trying to shuffle decks of cards for Up Front and Spartacus, my buddy finally picked up a 6 deck automatic shuffler. It's a glorious piece of equipment. Prior to that, we pretty much had to do the aforementioned "deck wash" every time as there wasn't a really good way to get them adequately shuffled.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

Yeah, I'm aware that overhand isn't thorough. If it is a game where card sets are a thing (Ticket to Ride), I wash. If it is less of an issue, and manually divide them or pile-shuffle first (it is faster and takes less room.) For most other games, though, we hand-wave it. We're aware that it isn't 100% perfect, but it works.

I've thought about an automatic shuffler, but for something like Savage Worlds, it would be nice to be able to shuffle with a little style (and maybe even a flourish) just for the effect.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Blackhawk wrote:I've thought about an automatic shuffler, but for something like Savage Worlds, it would be nice to be able to shuffle with a little style (and maybe even a flourish) just for the effect.
The table-riffle method without bending the cards I linked to above looks very smooth once you get it down. Just practice with some regular cards first, and you'll get the hang of it in no time at all.

Rest assured, I've used that method for innumerable games of Race for the Galaxy, and it causes no damage to the cards whatsoever; I've had that game (and its expansions) for many, many years, and it still looks as good as new, with no bends or card damage at all.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Zarathud »

If you get a mechanical card shuffler, hepcat will mock you about it for years.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by TheMix »

I wasn't aware that there were lots of ways to shuffle. I stumbled on that second link when I went looking. That was a pretty interesting video. I was especially surprised at how ineffective overhand is. If I have bigger decks (like the 40 card Sentinels decks), I'll usually try to do a minimal riffle without much bending, and then some overhand. Repeating if I think it's necessary. But I'll have to try that table approach in the future.

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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Grundbegriff »

A gentle Faro shuffle seems called for.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by hepcat »

Zarathud wrote:If you get a mechanical card shuffler, hepcat will mock you about it for years.
I'm sorry, but the act of placing my precious, precious cards into a machine that could potentially turn them into Rip Taylor level confetti scares the living crap out of me.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by coopasonic »

Anonymous Bosch wrote:In my experience, it's best just to learn to how to table-riffle without any bending of the cards, which is entirely possible. Here's a great video that shows exactly how its done. Repeat at least five to seven times for maximum randomness (according to the advice from the Numberphile's video on The Best (and Worst) Ways to Shuffle Cards), and you're good to go.
I not only watched the video. I grabbed a handy deck of cards and practice for a good 10 minutes. I'm getting better and it seems pretty good.
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Smoove_B »

hepcat wrote:I'm sorry, but the act of placing my precious, precious cards into a machine that could potentially turn them into Rip Taylor level confetti scares the living crap out of me.
I'll admit I have the same feelings, but seeing my buddy load up like 4 sleeved decks of UpFront cards and having them shuffled in 30 seconds is pretty impressive.
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TheMix
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by TheMix »

Smoove_B wrote:
hepcat wrote:I'm sorry, but the act of placing my precious, precious cards into a machine that could potentially turn them into Rip Taylor level confetti scares the living crap out of me.
I'll admit I have the same feelings, but seeing my buddy load up like 4 sleeved decks of UpFront cards and having them shuffled in 30 seconds is pretty impressive.
I briefly thought about getting a machine. But the consensus on the internet seems to be that they will destroy your cards.

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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

TheMix wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
hepcat wrote:I'm sorry, but the act of placing my precious, precious cards into a machine that could potentially turn them into Rip Taylor level confetti scares the living crap out of me.
I'll admit I have the same feelings, but seeing my buddy load up like 4 sleeved decks of UpFront cards and having them shuffled in 30 seconds is pretty impressive.
I briefly thought about getting a machine. But the consensus on the internet seems to be that they will destroy your cards.
They absolutely will; it's not a matter of if, only when. That's true of even the professional automated card shufflers used by casinos that cost $10,000+, let alone the cheaply-manufactured Chinese contraptions. But that doesn't really matter when the cards used are omnipresent and only cost a few dollars per pack (or much less than that, for the casinos that purchase them in bulk).

Given the variety of sizes, thicknesses, finishes, and card stocks used in modern board games, it's only a matter of time before an automated shuffler chews up a card or otherwise wears upon a deck that's much less easily replaced, and typically more valuable than the regular playing cards they're intended for.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

So, five days in.

I realize that I didn't really explain myself well in the first post. I wasn't so much looking for a way to mix cards better or more easily so much as a way to mix them with more style. I also wasn't thinking much about board games, but more of RPGs that use cards. I have about a dozen themed 'standard' decks for different games and settings. As the GM, I'd like to be able to add a little flourish at certain times. My upcoming Deadlands game, with its heavy use of poker as a mechanic, is a great example and some of the inspiration to finally learn what I've been pondering.

I've fiddled with the Pharo shuffle and can pull it off, but it isn't fast or neat yet (I steeple the cards, but most of the time they don't mix - they just stay steepled.)

I've gotten almost competent at the Hindu shuffle.

I've also gotten fairly smooth at doing a one-handed cut, and can do both one handed and two handed fans so long as you don't look at them too closely for an even spread. :ninja:
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Blackhawk
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Re: Shuffling. Yes, cards.

Post by Blackhawk »

Oh, and since I'm not a jackass (when I remember not to be), I will actually share the answers I found to the original question. one of the better sources I found.

Basic card handling

Advanced handling
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