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Kickstarter (Merged)

All discussions regarding Board, Card, and RPG Gaming, including industry discussion, that don't belong in one of the other gaming forums.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Ertic » Fri May 03, 2019 10:48 am

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:30 am

I tried Mistfall and just couldn't get into it. Between the manual and the iconography, it just didn't work for me. If I had someone to teach me, maybe it would have been better, but it just felt like a series of combats strung together.

Aventuria is the game I wanted the Pathfinder adventure game to be. If you're not aware, the game is based off of the PnP version of what is the D&D equivalent in Germany. What's crazy is that out of the box, the game is designed as a "duel" game - where you fight against other players. However, with minor adjustments (really how some cards are read or used), you can instead solo or coop your way through a series of campaign stories. The story elements have a bit of a "Choose Your Own Adventure" where sometimes you need to decide on a course of action and there's usually a gradient of results based on how well you succeed or fail at an event. To be clear, the campaign/coop version of the game is part of the official rules - it's not an add on or an afterthought.

Everything comes back to resolving cards. You'll read through a scene and are given various options as to how you can resolve the situation. You roll a die and the value determines success. Combat is similar though there are usually going to be additional skills and modifiers to help your die rolling.

What I like about it is that unlike Pathfinder, it's not just a flip over a card and roll a number to win. For the core box, the campaign adventures have slowly escalating conditions. Sometimes you need to make skill checks to harm an enemy or other times there are minions that you need to eliminate first. It sets up a much more dynamic "event' that feels like a PnP battle between two sides. I've only played true solo (i.e. one character) and I thought it worked great. Having a game balanced so that it supports a single character is a huge plus (for me) as I'm not great (and don't enjoy) managing multiple characters or decks. Between adventures you can rest, which gives you even more options like leveling up cards or getting bonus tokens to help you in skill checks. This makes it feel more like an RPG game.

Its hard for me to say how much time is in the game. With the core box you have four different characters and three stories. You can play each story then four times and experience it in a different way based on the character you choose.

I think this video gives a great overview. He's playing as three heroes so you can at least see the variety, but the video does a great job of introducing the system and early play. He makes some mistakes, but that's expected when running three characters!

Smoove,

Thanks for the write-up, it does a better job of selling the game than the Kickstarter page! I love these types of games, and own quite a bit of them; Mistfall, PACG, Warhammer, Crossfire etc. This one seems to be a little different, more of a cross into Arabian Knights / Legacy of Dragonholt.

I just sunk 250 bucks into Tainted Grail which also comes across as very similar to this this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aw ... -of-avalon

Sigh, my wife is going to kill me

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Fri May 03, 2019 10:59 am

I didn't like Warhammer or Crossfire. Warhammer might have been better if they were able to expand it, but I just found it too limiting. Crossfire I didn't like because it seems designed for you to play the same thing 8 times, grinding your way to a better result if you can't win. It also seemingly required 4 character slots (or running "multi-class"), which wasn't enjoyable. Aventuria is definitely in the same family, but it's probably my favorite use of the theme (cards and dice). The fact that it truly plays solo is the biggest sell for me. I'm also a Tainted Grail backer - loved the theme and I'm pretty excited to see it happen.

Getting back to this KS, I think if you just back for the core game, it's still a great opportunity to get a copy. The expansions are still all in print and generally around $30 a box - it's that core/starter box that is apparently unavailable now. Jumping in to this KS to get that along with any stretch goals is a no-brainer (IMHO).

I did a short writeup of my experiences with Aventuria in the solo thread. Not as exciting as a Youtube video, but it's something.
Last edited by Smoove_B on Fri May 03, 2019 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by coopasonic » Fri May 03, 2019 10:59 am

I am close to pulling the trigger on Aventuria as well... the only problem for me is that the "all in" price is ridiculous and I am an "all in" kind of guy.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Ertic » Fri May 03, 2019 11:20 am

coopasonic wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 10:59 am
I am close to pulling the trigger on Aventuria as well... the only problem for me is that the "all in" price is ridiculous and I am an "all in" kind of guy.
I pulled the trigger on the $120 dollar pledge. The folks that own this game also recently purchased the Myth IP from Megacon, so I am interested to see where they take that.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by hepcat » Fri May 03, 2019 11:25 am

Hopefully they'll take it to completion as I'm still waiting on some cards for Myth.

As for Aventuria vs. Mistfall, I love Mistfall and will choose that over most card games like this. However it IS very polarizing. The difficulty curve between the two makes Aventuria the clear winner if you're looking for accessibility. But Mistfall gives me a sense of more depth. Although as I said, that's not an opinion shared by everyone.

Aventuria is still a favorite of mine though. Especially in head to head duels. I love card games that use the cards themselves as resources. It adds a sense of sacrifice that I find very satisfying. I've only played a little of the solo game, but it's more Chose Your Own Adventure than it is Pathfinder.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with Aventuria. It's a solid experience all around. Just not as deep as Mistfall in my opinion.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Ertic » Fri May 03, 2019 11:43 am

hepcat wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:25 am
Hopefully they'll take it to completion as I'm still waiting on some cards for Myth.

As for Aventuria vs. Mistfall, I love Mistfall and will choose that over most card games like this. However it IS very polarizing. The difficulty curve between the two makes Aventuria the clear winner if you're looking for accessibility. But Mistfall gives me a sense of more depth. Although as I said, that's not an opinion shared by everyone.

Aventuria is still a favorite of mine though. Especially in head to head duels. I love card games that use the cards themselves as resources. It adds a sense of sacrifice that I find very satisfying. I've only played a little of the solo game, but it's more Chose Your Own Adventure than it is Pathfinder.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with Aventuria. It's a solid experience all around. Just not as deep as Mistfall in my opinion.
I like Mistfall as well, however I agree, it is a bit on the cerebral side. I played with a couple other folks, and as the sole rule reader, it was tough for me to follow the flow of the game and help with all the character questions. I need to review the rules again and see if I can't get it back out for a session or two.

As for Myth I believe that I received all my cards/modules. Just missing all the mini's at this point.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Fri May 03, 2019 12:08 pm

:evil:

Quit it.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by hepcat » Fri May 03, 2019 1:49 pm

Ertic wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:43 am
hepcat wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 11:25 am
Hopefully they'll take it to completion as I'm still waiting on some cards for Myth.

As for Aventuria vs. Mistfall, I love Mistfall and will choose that over most card games like this. However it IS very polarizing. The difficulty curve between the two makes Aventuria the clear winner if you're looking for accessibility. But Mistfall gives me a sense of more depth. Although as I said, that's not an opinion shared by everyone.

Aventuria is still a favorite of mine though. Especially in head to head duels. I love card games that use the cards themselves as resources. It adds a sense of sacrifice that I find very satisfying. I've only played a little of the solo game, but it's more Chose Your Own Adventure than it is Pathfinder.

Honestly, you can't go wrong with Aventuria. It's a solid experience all around. Just not as deep as Mistfall in my opinion.
I like Mistfall as well, however I agree, it is a bit on the cerebral side. I played with a couple other folks, and as the sole rule reader, it was tough for me to follow the flow of the game and help with all the character questions. I need to review the rules again and see if I can't get it back out for a session or two.

As for Myth I believe that I received all my cards/modules. Just missing all the mini's at this point.
Heart of the Mists really fixed the issues I had with Mistfall. The time tracker was simplified/made better, and the player aid was streamlined and clarified. If you don't have that, I would suggest grabbing it if you see it on sale somewhere. I know quite a few online resellers were dumping them cheap as the maker is closing down that world essentially.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Tue May 07, 2019 9:41 am

I just backed Making History: Three One-Session RPGs. I played all three of this guy's games while he was still testing them at Fear the Con and GenCons 2017 and 2018. They are some of the best RPGs I've played. Each one is a single session, complete with its own (simple) rules and pregenerated characters. Each one takes place in the real world in a historical setting and location that the author knows personally (modern day US Navy ship, Norman era, and prehistoric America near St. Louis) . You can pull out the book and have it on the table two hours later, rules, characters and all.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by coopasonic » Fri May 10, 2019 11:34 am

coopasonic wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:34 am
So i keep looking back to Aventuria... Because I am me I really want to go all in, but no need for the playmats... then I see there are cards with the playmats...

$120 Barkeep level - core game and black boar expansions
$120 expansion bundle
$150 playmat bundle

Well if I am spending that much, what's another $40 for acrylic tokens?

I haven't done it yet, but the fact that I am even considering it... On the other hand it is *way* more likely to get played than that stupid batman game taking up half my shelves.
So I have 3 days left to make up my mind on Aventuria...I'm pretty sure I want it. I am less sure how much I want to spend on it.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Fri May 10, 2019 11:42 am

I know you're a completest, but truly - there's enough in the core box to decide whether or not you like it. And if you do, getting expansions is possible via retail. It's the core box that's always been a buster to get a hold of, so from one lunatic to another, just focus on that. :D

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by RMC » Fri May 10, 2019 11:53 am

I know how people feel about getting all the parts of a game.

I bought Heroes of land, sea, and air. And bought the expansion to make it 5-6, and then before the first play through, bought the expansion for 7 players.

Do I have 7 players to play the game, or would I want too? <shrug> Maybe??? But I can't not have all the pieces...Just in case...
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by coopasonic » Fri May 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 11:42 am
I know you're a completest, but truly - there's enough in the core box to decide whether or not you like it. And if you do, getting expansions is possible via retail. It's the core box that's always been a buster to get a hold of, so from one lunatic to another, just focus on that. :D
You helped me at least moderate my spending. I went with the Barkeep (Core + Black Boar expansion) level.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by hepcat » Sat May 11, 2019 10:44 am

You can always add on a few expansions in the pledge manager, I imagine. That's what I'm doing for the one I'm missing. :twisted:
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Sat May 11, 2019 1:39 pm

Ugh, Aventuria is tempting me! Tempting me enough that I'm looking over my budget and trying to see if I can sqeeze it in. I really, really shouldn't.

I watched the video Smoove posted earlier. One concern - how much replayability is there?
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Sun May 12, 2019 11:40 am

Decision time. I had some money put back for something I no longer need it put back for. I can probably pull off either Aventuria or Hostage Negotiator: Career, but not both.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Sun May 12, 2019 12:38 pm

I don't think the Hostage Negotiator is going to be something you can pick up post-KS in retail. There was some commentary early on how it's really a targeted product for people that have been supporting the games various KS projects. That alone would make me back it, particularly knowing I'd never make it out to a major convention they attend to try and get a copy directly from them.

In *theory* Aventuria should hit retail again (that's the only way I've ever purchased copies), however there will likely be a delay between KS delivery and when it's actually in retail circulation. Maybe the delay will be shorter, but IIRC it was a solid 6 months when they did this the last time, I think because they're based in Germany and not the US.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Sun May 12, 2019 1:03 pm

I backed both Hostage Negotiator: Career and the barkeep level of Aventuria myself.

Smoove makes a valid point about Hostage Negotiator: Career's retail availability (or lack thereof). But if I were you Blackhawk, I suspect I'd go with Aventuria, as it would seem to offer more bang for your buck (considering that it supports 1 - 4 players vs. the strictly solitaire gameplay of Hostage Negotiator). But hey, whatever floats your goat.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Sun May 12, 2019 1:11 pm

Yeah, it really depends on what you're after. To speak to your earlier question, there are three stories/campaigns in the original (core) box set of Aventuria, and four character classes provided. Because of how the game is designed, you can play each of those campaign stories in true solo (i.e on of the provided character classes) mode. So bare bones minimum, you get 12 plays out of the box as a solo player. Because each character has a a defined role/set of abilities/skills, they do play quite different from one another. Not an earth-shattering difference (imagine playing a solo D&D adventure as a Thief vs a Mage), but the story can certainly play out in different ways based on how a problem is addressed. For example, if your character has a high lore skill, maybe you gain insight into a situation which confers a combat bonus. There's little twists and turns in each of the stories like that and I think it's another reason I like it so much. Playing as a traditional combat character might be the easiest route (because you can fight your way through everything), but the way they designed the adventures playing as a solo mage is also a viable option. I can't really say I felt that way playing the Pathfinder adventure game - I felt that we were always severely at a disadvantage playing two character classes.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Zarathud » Sun May 12, 2019 2:42 pm

Looks like the Game Canopy team is bringing another campaign for an even bigger bag. I'll be getting another one. The smaller Vanguard ends up being just a box small too many times. Unless I'm just bringing a main game and backup game only.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Sun May 12, 2019 5:12 pm

Thanks for the input. I'll likely go with Hostage Negotiator. Aventuria looks like a blast (especially the way the seem to integrate narrative in), but it falls into the 'also have' category. Just with my four base sets of PACG, Dragonfire, and Hero Realms, I have five fantasy card games with campaigns that can be played cooperatively or solo (despite the fact that this one may be better than any of those.) I don't have any other solo-only games, and I don't have many 'modern setting' games. Discounting super heroes and zombies, I have Memoir 44 (which I can't play), Pandemic, and maybe Pax Porfiriana and Ticket to Ride if you're willing to stretch 'modern.'

I'll regret not getting Aventuria, but I have lots of similar games to play without it.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Sun May 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Blackhawk wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 5:12 pm
Thanks for the input. I'll likely go with Hostage Negotiator. Aventuria looks like a blast (especially the way the seem to integrate narrative in), but it falls into the 'also have' category. Just with my four base sets of PACG, Dragonfire, and Hero Realms, I have five fantasy card games with campaigns that can be played cooperatively or solo (despite the fact that this one may be better than any of those.) I don't have any other solo-only games, and I don't have many 'modern setting' games. Discounting super heroes and zombies, I have Memoir 44 (which I can't play), Pandemic, and maybe Pax Porfiriana and Ticket to Ride if you're willing to stretch 'modern.'

I'll regret not getting Aventuria, but I have lots of similar games to play without it.
Not to throw another spanner in the works, but if you're after one of the best solitaire experiences around with a nifty (sorta) modern theme, I would instead recommend Nemo's War (Second Edition). I own the original Hostage Negotiator along with all the Crime Wave expansion goodies, but I play Nemo's War more frequently than Hostage Negotiator. So IMHO, Nemo's War is a more enjoyable solo game.

I believe you should still be able to snag it with a late pledge as part of the KS campaign for their Bold and Caring & Dramatis Personae expansions, FWIW.
Last edited by Anonymous Bosch on Sun May 12, 2019 8:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by AWS260 » Sun May 12, 2019 6:46 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Not to throw another spanner in the works, but if you're after one of the best solitaire experiences around with a nifty (sorta) modern theme, I would instead recommend Nemo's War (Second Edition).
SO GOOD.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by $iljanus » Sun May 12, 2019 7:47 pm

AWS260 wrote:
Anonymous Bosch wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Not to throw another spanner in the works, but if you're after one of the best solitaire experiences around with a nifty (sorta) modern theme, I would instead recommend Nemo's War (Second Edition).
SO GOOD.
Seconded! Great art and components along with good game play!
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Anonymous Bosch » Sun May 12, 2019 8:10 pm

Indeed, you get a nifty Nautilus miniature with Nemo's War, that I suspect a talented fellow like Blackhawk is sure to enjoy painting:

Enlarge Image
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Mon May 13, 2019 1:24 am

That one's actually been on my list, too. The theme of Hostage Negotiator really appeals to me, which ups it considerably (and I already have the base game and a couple of the packs.)

I was actually offered hostage negotiator training once, many years ago. I was seriously considering taking them up on it, but a sudden change of career took me elsewhere. Good thing, too. I don't think it would have been a good fit.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by YellowKing » Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 am

I decided against Hostage Negotiator only because I'd have to spend another chunk of change to get up to the level I could play campaign mode. Right now all I own is the Crime Wave box and 3 add-on packs. Eventually I'll probably grab everything, because it is a really cool game.

I'm already in on the Nemo's War KS, as I have the original 2nd Edition small box. I sprung for the bigger box and insert, as this is truly one of the gems of my collection. I've yet to win it, but it's still one of my favorite solo games of all time.

I'm trying to hold off on any more backing until I see how badly GenCon wrecks my wallet. :D

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Mon May 13, 2019 8:41 am

Sadly, I won't be able to go to GenCon this year.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Lordnine » Wed May 15, 2019 3:41 pm

So an aside to your normal KS discussion. I use Quartermaster Logistics for my board-game fulfillment. Received this email today.
Good day,

As you may have heard, the President has called for an increase in tariffs on Chinese imports. Board games from China are currently imported duty free but could be subject to up to a 25% tariff if the proposal for Section 301 List 4 is approved.

We understand that tariffs will be imposed based on import date. According to the proposed schedule, the earliest it would be effective is after June 24th.

What does this mean for you?

If product is already on the water, we expect delivery to the US before June 24th which means games would be exempt from any ad valorem duties.

If product has not shipped yet and sails in the next week, there is a chance that it will arrive near June 24th. If this proposal is approved, products could be subject to the additional tariffs.

If product ships from China after next week, we do not expect it to arrive before June 24th.

There will likely be a scramble to get product out of China with many people hoping to get product imported before June 24th.

We’ll continue to monitor this proposal and keep everyone updated as we learn more.
This could be devastating for any undelivered Kickstarters arriving this summer.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by coopasonic » Wed May 15, 2019 3:45 pm

*grumbles in R&P*
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 15, 2019 4:18 pm

I just got an email yesterday from a Kickstarter. It was a relatively small project, but the essence was that they were getting charged the extra 25%, but are choosing to eat the lost profits rather than passing it on to the customers. That said, it was a fairly high margin project (it was dice), so they were still able to come out on top. Something with an extremely high price and low profit that is counting on making their profits through volume? They're screwed. They're going to either lose money, have to ask for more, or just let the project - and their company's reputation - die.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Lordnine » Wed May 15, 2019 4:24 pm

This will effectively kill smaller companies. I sold DinoGenics very close to production cost. A 25% tax on the manufacturing price means I either need to raise the sell price by about $15 or its dead.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by hepcat » Wed May 15, 2019 4:46 pm

With about 4 big budget projects shipping from China this summer/fall, I'm screwed. :(
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by $iljanus » Wed May 15, 2019 4:56 pm

I've heard from two projects so far. One definitively said they wouldn't pass the tarrif on to their backers. The other company said they would try not to pass the cost along. Hopefully the other projects will ship when all this is over...
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:05 pm

To be honest, I wouldn't hold it against some companies if they asked for more. I'm not sure whether Kickstarter lets them do that or not, but it is beyond their control, and if the question is to do it or cancel the funded project and potentially lose their company... Well, I won't blame them for trying.

I also expect some upcoming Kickstarters to either be more expensive than we're used to, or to be delayed until this situation settles down. I'd be terrified to start a project that involves Chinese manufacturing right now.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Wed May 15, 2019 5:13 pm

I've only heard from one - LockNLoad -and they've already said it won't impact KS deliveries. MSRP will be raised, but they won't make backers suffer. And while I'll never back a DVG product again via KS, they're already bellyaching about the cost increase. From what I understand, they have pretty much switched over to running everything they do via KS now and every time they run another KS, they offer reprints (as part of the backer kits) on all their old stuff. Not surprisingly then, they're seemingly 6+ months late on everything and they have a whole bunch of KS projects and now inventory that will get hammered. And then I look at someone like Victory Point Games - a publisher that was producing games locally in California (?) but then in 2016 closed shop and relocated production to China. I'm guessing it's still cheaper, but their profit margins probably just disappeared.

I have quite a few (too many) KS projects shipping in Q3 and Q4 of this year (and into next...), so yeah, I'm expecting a bloodbath.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:26 pm

I wonder if this is just going to cause a new China to rise up and fill the void. Perhaps India. It's a grand opportunity for somebody with the cash to get it started.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Smoove_B » Wed May 15, 2019 5:32 pm

Maybe, but that will take time and I fear for quality assurance. It's bad enough as it is and I cringe every time I hear of a KS projecting that's going to give a go at switching production companies because they've been assured it'll be great.

Instead, I think the industry could shrink (it had to stop booming at some point) and the types of games being produced might shift. No more games with buckets of miniatures. Maybe more of s switch to card and app based games with lots of paper standees. We're in uncharted territory, that's for sure.

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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by Blackhawk » Wed May 15, 2019 5:36 pm

I absolutely agree with that. Companies like Monolith Board Games and CMON in the crosshairs on this one. I worry for Reaper. I expect to see more meeples, wooden cubes, and cards in our future, which sucks for those of us who thrive on thematic games.

I do not, not, not like app based games. I don't like the idea of a game being rendered unplayable by an Android update one day. Apps as accessories? Sure.
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Re: Kickstarter (Merged)

Post by MonkeyFinger » Thu May 16, 2019 9:26 am

Just caught up on my Kickstarter emails and found this: Rule & Make closing. Most recent KS project as for Hand of Fate: Ordeals, a boardgame adaption of the video game. This was the only project of theirs I was aware of and backed and at least I have the game to show for it this time. :(
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