RPG's

[Punisher]

I am thinking about starting to get my family into RPG's in the future (Right now, we have been having regular board gaming nights).
I currently have:
Star Wars RPG
Dungeons and Dragons Starter Set and
The End of the World-Zombie Apocalypse

Still going through all 3 at the moment to get a feel for them.

So, my questions.
Does anyone know of a better game system then the ones above for complete newbies to play? (Or if one of the above, let me know why) Basically, nobody in my family has ever played a pen and paper RPG before. I did play some in High School (Mostly Gamma World and Marvel Superheroes (which I think I still have somewhere.)), but everyone else playing is an RPG virgin. One of the players is 12 years old.
Going hand in hand with the above, I would need to also be able to GM the game pretty easily... I think I only GMED a few times in high School and all those were with pre-written campaigns..

[Blackhawk]

Your names are a bit vague.

Star Wars RPG

I'm guessing this is the Edge of the Empire/Age of Rebellion game from Fantasy Flight. If so, it is a fantastic game, but probably not the best introduction to RPGs, as it requires a fair amount of improv to flow smoothly.

The End of the World-Zombie Apocalypse

This I have never heard of, but a quick check found two reviews, both of which compared it to FATE. That also wouldn't be the way to get people into gaming, especially with an inexperienced GM.

Dungeons and Dragons Starter Set

I'm going to guess that this is the 5th Edition starter set. Green dragon on the cover? If so, there's your answer. It is a great set of rules (I'd argue the best in the series' history.) In fact, it is one of the two suggestions I would have made had you not had any (the other being Savage Worlds, although I'd have pushed for this.) It gives you premade characters, all the supplies you need, and a basic version of the rules. The included adventure (Lost Mine of Phandelver) is a fantastic adventure, and is written as a tutorial for both the players and the DM. If you decide to run it, let me know. I may have some files that could be useful.

Let go of your assumptions from high school, by the way. RPGs have grown up a lot since then.

[Blackhawk]

Oh, and my kids had just turned 11 and 13 when I taught them to play. The rules for players aren't that complex, and compared to older editions, they're much more consistent. Learn how to make one type of roll and you know them all.

THAC0 can suck it.

[Punisher]

Thanks for the info. I'll focus on learning the D&D stuff for now.

[hentzau]

I'm here to Thumbs Up Blackhawk's comments. Love 5th edition D&D, and the starter set is perfect to get them into it. And I've run D&D with kids as young as 10, they need a little help with finding stuff and staying focused, but it's really not that rough to get them into it.

And which version of the Star Wars RPG do you have? Just curious. If it's a starter box, those aren't bad to get you going, they hand hold you through learning the rules a bit at a time. But in the long run, you absolutely need to be on top of your GM and Player chops to really make the FFG game shine.

[Punisher]

It's the Edge of Empire one. I think it has most of the starter kit. Scoop gave it away since he didn't need it anymore...
I also ordered the paperback version of Savage Worlds for $9 from amazon to give that a look, since it was the 2nd choice. Looks like a TON of add-ons for that which is nice. Not sure how into D&D my group will be and Savage Worlds seems like it covers every single base you could possibly want, although my quick glance seemed to be all supplements and no campaigns, but I really didn't look too hard at 3AM..

[Blackhawk]

Savage Worlds is a rules system that is intentionally generic. I've used it to run (or played in) Star Wars, classic fantasy, Deadlands (old west meets supernatural), light Thundarr-like post-apocalyptic, historical old west, and a cheesy 30s Indiana Jones style pulp. It does anything, although its strength is in fast paced, action-packed settings. It is designed so that you can learn the rules fairly quickly, then add in one or two 'setting rules' to adapt it to any setting.

For Star Wars, for instance, I added a Mooks rule said that enemies deignated Mooks go down when Shaken (the lowest level of wound), thus allowing the mowing down of Stormtroopers, while heroes got Hard to Kill for free. Think of setting rules as a set of three or four mods that each tweak one rule to turn Savage Worlds into Savage Fallout or Savage Flash Gordon.

There are quite a few campaigns out there. They are just included in the setting book, and are usually referred to as a 'plot point campaign.' Pinnacle (the creators) also have lots of free 'One Sheets' on their site, which are single-session adventures.

The real strength of Savage Worlds is that it is extremely easy to improvise in. You don't need to stat out every encounter and mob, you don't need to memorize four dozen tables. You just approximate the numbers and roll the dice.

Do be aware that it includes an exploding dice mechanic. If you roll a die and get the highest result, roll again and add it. This can repeat. If you roll a d6 for damage and roll a 6, you roll it again. Get another 6? Roll again. I've seen characters roll 2d4 and get 30+. It's rare, but when it happens it can result in a goblin with a dagger one-shotting a hero, or a hero one-shotting a major boss. It adds an element of danger, but it could be frustrating for a first time player - especially a kid - to suddenly lose a character.

Don't think that Savage Worlds is Dark Souls or anyting. I've only seen a couple of characters die in all the games I've played. I've seen more die in D&D than in Savage Worlds, but when it does happen, it is out of the blue. I'd suggest making sure that everyone is fully aware that charcter deaths can and do occur.

[coopasonic]

I asked this some question a couple years ago... and beyond buying some materials and reading up on them, never did anything.

I am not built to be a DM.

[Blackhawk]

Out of curiosity, what type of setting would you be considering if you went with Savage Worlds?

[hentzau]

You know a game world I would love to play in? I would love to have an adventure in Jack Kirby's Kamandi setting.

[Blackhawk]

I'm not familiar with it, but my first thought just based on the Wikipedia article would be to work off of the Titansgrave/Fantasy AGE system.

[Punisher]

I asked this some question a couple years ago... and beyond buying some materials and reading up on them, never did anything.

I am not built to be a DM.

I may be in the same boat, but figure I'd get the manuals and whatnot and take it from there.
We already have a backlog of games, so no hurry.

[hentzau]

So if you want some beginning DM advice, Matthew Colville has a series of videos with advice for the beginning DM. Dude likes to hear himself talk, but he does disperse some good ideas in his video series.

Link.

[Punisher]

Out of curiosity, what type of setting would you be considering if you went with Savage Worlds?

No clue to be honest. It's something I plan on bringing up to the group. It's one of the reasons I picked up the end of the worli book. The PC's ARE the players. You basically play yourself. I figured that would be easier for new players to understand.

[Blackhawk]

Out of curiosity, what type of setting would you be considering if you went with Savage Worlds?

No clue to be honest. It's something I plan on bringing up to the group. It's one of the reasons I picked up the end of the worli book. The PC's ARE the players. You basically play yourself. I figured that would be easier for new players to understand.

True, but it can be problematic, especially for kids, when they die horribly.

Look at the family's favorite settings - movies, TV shows, comics, books, even board games. Look for a pattern, and consider that as a starting point for figuring out what to play.

[Punisher]

The youngin is 12. She has gotten killed in zombicide a few times and last week my son collapsed the roof on her in betrayal at house on the hill.
Plus, she is my sons fiance's sister, so I'm not responsible for any therapy that may be needed..

[Blackhawk]

Oh, sure, character death is a given at times. I was referring to a game where you play yourself. Where it is *your* throat being torn out. That might blur the line for kids.

[Punisher]

Oh, sure, character death is a given at times. I was referring to a game where you play yourself. Where it is *your* throat being torn out. That might blur the line for kids.

Oh... I doubt I would be that good of a storyteller for it to bother her....

[Anonymous Bosch]

Evil Hat's Fate Core and Fate Accelerated are pretty much tailor-made as narrative-driven RPG systems that are ideal for beginners, and greatly simplify the process of creating your own settings and GMing. Better yet, they're available on a Pay What You Want basis, and can be downloaded for free and played using regular D6 dice.

Here's how they're described:

Fate Core
Grab your plasma rifles, spell components, and jetpacks! Name your game; Fate Core is the foundation that can make it happen. Fate Core is a flexible system that can support whatever worlds you dream up. Have you always wanted to play a post-apocalyptic spaghetti western with tentacle monsters? Swords and sorcery in space? Wish there was a game based on your favorite series of books, film, or television, but it never happened? Fate Core is your answer.

Fate Core is a tabletop roleplaying game about proactive, capable people who lead dramatic lives. The type of drama they experience is up to you. But wherever they go, you can expect a fun storytelling experience full of twists…of fate.


Fate Accelerated
Let’s face it: most role playing games aren’t grab-and-go. Giant books and prep work out the ying-yang can be fun if you’ve got the time, but what if you don’t? What if you’re looking for a last minute game? What if you’re new to the RPG world and want a no hassle way to try one out? What if you’re introducing your kids to RPGs and want something easily accessible for them that won’t bore you to tears? We’ve got a solution: Fate Accelerated Edition.

Fate Accelerated, or FAE, is a condensed version of the popular Fate Core system that brings all the flexibility and power of Fate in an easily digestible—and quickly read—package. With FAE, you and your friends can step into the world of your favorite books, movies, and TV or you can create a world of your own. And set up is simple—you can be playing in minutes. Whether you’re new to RPGs or an expert gamer, FAE brings something special to the table.

Fate Accelerated Edition. Your story—full speed ahead.

Here's a decent 'How to play in 10 minutes' Youtube overview of the basics.

[Punisher]

I don't mind collecting books, so I'm going to order the fate stuff from amazon. I'm going away next week and may have some time to read through the various instructions for D&D, Savage worlds, and Fate and then see what would work best for a first session...

[Blackhawk]

Be warned that Fate is not in any way a traditional RPG. It is narrative based rather than rules based. I love it, but if you're used to more heavily rules based systems, it can be a lot to wrap your head around.

[Punisher]

Well, while I mentioned I had experience with RPG's in high school, that was unfortunately almost 30 years ago.. (Gee, thanks for reminding me how old I am), so I am not really used to anything anymore, plus, it is always good to have options. Heck, my group may decide that RPG's aren't for them anyway..

[Blackhawk]

Don't get me wrong, Fate (and its cousin, Apocalypse World) are fantastic RPGs. They just require that the group all grasp the concept and be willing to play along and work with you.

[Punisher]

No worries.. We will see what happens with the group.. and I have ways of making them listen...

[Anonymous Bosch]

Fiasco is another highly amusing storytelling GM-less RPG system that's perfect for beginners, and well worth checking out. While it isn’t a 'traditional' RPG, it's very much based upon adopting character roles that get acted out in a story, and provides a superb introduction to many of the concepts about which Blackhawk was concerned.

Here's how it's described:

THINGS CAN GO WRONG, FAST…

Maybe some dude from youth group talked you into boosting a case of motor oil, but now your cousin is dead in a swamp and you killed him.

Maybe you and your girlfriend figured you could scare your wife into a divorce, but things went pear-shaped and now a gang of cranked-up Mexicans with latex gloves and a pit bull are looking for you. It seemed like such a good idea at the time.

Fiasco is inspired by cinematic tales of small time capers gone disastrously wrong – inspired by films like Blood Simple, Fargo, The Way of the Gun, Burn After Reading, and A Simple Plan. You’ll play ordinary people with powerful ambition and poor impulse control. There will be big dreams and flawed execution. It won’t go well for them, to put it mildly, and in the end it will probably all go south in a glorious heap of jealousy, murder, and recrimination. Lives and reputations will be lost, painful wisdom will be gained, and if you are really lucky, your guy just might end up back where he started.

FIASCO is an award-winning, GM-less game for 3-5 players, designed to be played in a few hours with six-sided dice and no preparation. During a game you will engineer and play out stupid, disastrous situations, usually at the intersection of greed, fear, and lust. It’s like making your own Coen brothers movie, in about the same amount of time it’d take to watch one.

THE FIASCO COMPANION is a supplement for Fiasco, including in-depth discussion of common pitfalls and solid techniques for making Fiasco games excellent as well as advice for writing your own Playsets and hacking the rules. In addition, the Companion features exciting rules variants, new Tilt and Aftermath tables, four new Playsets, an interview with John Rogers and a foreword by Wil Wheaton.

THE FIASCO PLAYSET ANTHOLOGY is a three-volume collection of the Playset of the Month series that ran from 2010-2012. In each of these three volumes you’ll find a baker’s dozen of dumb situations and criminal folly, all tied together with an exclusive playset written by Fiasco designer Jason Morningstar.

It was also featured in season 1 of TableTop, and you can buy it on Amazon here.

[Punisher]

Not that I need to add more to my list, but thanks. I'll take a look at the tabletop thing since Tabletop is what got me kicked off on gaming nights with X-Wing..

[Blackhawk]

Not that I need to add more to my list, but thanks.

Ok, then I won't bring up all the cool things I've heard about Cypher System.

[Punisher]

Not that I need to add more to my list, but thanks.

Ok, then I won't bring up all the cool things I've heard about Cypher System.

My wallet has given me notice to stop looking up suggested game systems.

[Blackhawk]

Oh, one thing that should be mentioned since you're picking up Fate. Fate uses its own special dice. Amazon has them in packs of three sets (each player uses four.)

[Zarathud]

Not that I need to add more to my list, but thanks.

Ok, then I won't bring up all the cool things I've heard about Cypher System.

And the kid oriented No Thank You Evil heavily borrows from (and simplifies) the Cypher System. I'll be running a session for my oldest's 10th birthday party.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Oh, one thing that should be mentioned since you're picking up Fate. Fate uses its own special dice. Amazon has them in packs of three sets (each player uses four.)

True, but it's certainly possible to play using regular D6 dice, though using the special Fate dice is more convenient and intuitive.

The Deck of Fate Cards (which is actually three decks) can also be used in conjunction with or in place of Fate dice.

[IceBear]

I have heard many people say they have had good success introducting new players to RPGs with Dungeon World. Comments like they quickly and easily picked it up because there are few rules to figure out. That said, and to echo Blackhawk, I think those groups were mostly led by experienced game masters and I can see if the GM was a newbie too it might not go so well

My son...4 at the time...really took to No Thank You Evil.

I also really like the Edge of the Empire system but you need the special dice and on top of understanding the rules...it's not rules lite...you also have to come to grips with narrating your actions if you fail a skill check but with advantage (positive) or succeed on a check with despair (negative). I like it but it might overwhelm a newbie.

One of my favorite things about the Cypher System is a monster or NPC could literally just be it's level. That's the only stat you need to run it

Besides D&D 5E, I am currently running a DW game (the game pretty much requires no prep so if something happens to a regularly scheduled game I run it) and Savage Worlds Rifts which has been a hoot.

What I really like about D&D 5E is a player can just say what he wants to do and a lot of times rather than hunting up detailed and obscure rules a DM can basically say...sounds like a Dex check with (dis)advantage and off you go.

[IceBear]

Oh, sure, character death is a given at times. I was referring to a game where you play yourself. Where it is *your* throat being torn out. That might blur the line for kids.

My group has played a one shot of the Fantasy Flight End of the World Zombie game (I have the entire line...gods, alien invasion, and rise of the machines). It was fine for a one shot and making a character based on you with your gear literally being what's on you was interesting. I was the GM so my npc arrived late to DM our D&D game after being bitten by a stranger. I quickly turned but the guys managed to subdue me and duct tape me to a chair. They put on a Star Wars dvd and left it playing for me to watch rather than bash my brains in...that was nice

[Punisher]

My Fate and Savage Worlds books arrived. just in time for my trip. Both books have a lot more pages then I expected so gonna be a while before I get through both, but I'll skim then on the plane for now...

[baelthazar]

Punisher,

If you are looking for rules lite, storytelling games, that are great for beginners, then I would suggest Kingdom and Microscope by Lame Mage Productions: http://www.lamemage.com/.

These are really interesting games where you use index cards and to either build a zoomed out history of a civilization or massive story (Microscope) or a more zoomed in look at a single place during multiple points of crisis (Kingdom). They are absolutely fantastic and very versatile. I am currently trying to work out the best way to incorporate the games in the history courses I teach (as some sort of tool for discussion). They do require some thinking on your feet and imagination, but nobody needs any pre-knowledge and the rules take some 10 minutes to teach.

Like Fiasco, this is a story game and not a regular PNP type game with stats and monsters. But it would be a good introduction to roleplaying.

Best thing - no DM.

[baelthazar]

Or you could always go hardcore and get Call of Cthulhu.

[IceBear]

I know of several groups that use Microscope to create their gaming world and then use another ruleset to play in it

[Punisher]

I'll probably look into it when I get back from vacation..
First glance though seems like it may not have enough structure for me as a GM.. I would probably want to start off with pre-written campaigns for whatever system I choose. Then after me and my group are comfortable, we can move on to different systems.

I am thinking that the D&D starter set and Star Wars starter set might be best since they have the pre-written stuff.. That or the end of the world thing.. Only because it plays in 'the real world' and there is less for everyone to learn..
After those 2, if the group likes RPG's, we'll discuss a theme we all agree on.
as an aside.. my wallet hates this thread..

[Blackhawk]

As an aside, when I decided to get my kids into RPGs, I actually started with the D&D boardgames. It introduces the rules and concepts in a pared-down way, and is cooperative without a DM. By the time we started to actually play D&D, they already knew how to make an attack roll, how Armor Class worked, how hit points worked, what the basic idea of the classes were, and how to work together as a party.

[Punisher]

Any particular board game?