[WW] Fright Night! (The village wins!)

[Mr Bubbles]

I can't hide it anymore.. Leigh is the alpha.. She told me in tells
Wait.. oh here is the PM

Yes its me the alpha. And you can't tell anyone or else I will eat you. If you do tell people no one will believe someone named Mr Bubbles. You will die and like it.

[Leigh]

I can't hide it anymore.. Leigh is the alpha.. She told me in tells
Wait.. oh here is the PM

Yes its me the alpha. And you can't tell anyone or else I will eat you. If you do tell people no one will believe someone named Mr Bubbles. You will die and like it.

Puh-leaze! If I'd sent you a death threat, it would have gone more along the lines of: Do as I say or I will suck you dry. And then I'm gonna wipe that smile off of your cold, dead face.

[triggercut]

The villagers deliberated slowly over how to avenge the death of noxiousdog. Eventually, the object of their hatred became a mere villager known as Mr. Bubbles. Over his protests he was dragged, flailing wildly and protesting innocence to the table of justice in the smithery, and the villagers knocked home the stake.

Mr. Bubbles cried out first once, and then again...and then his body burst into white-hot flame before just as instantly revealing itself as a pile of ash and embers. Mr. Bubbles was a VAMPIRE!

At the same moment dark clouds which had hung low on the town for the past three days parted. The sun shone brightly through. Birds, silent since the death of poor, sawdust-for-brains Myopis Punderheimer, sang merrily in the trees.

The vampires were defeated. The villagers had won! The hamlet was safe...until the next game...

[Chaosraven]

Excellent.

Now let's hang Grund.

[triggercut]

The cast:

Alpha vampire: Mr. Bubbles

His Chosen: ChrisGrenard, J. D.

The Seers: setaside and Varity

The Masons: noxiousdog and Leigh

The Fearless Vampire Hunter: Mark

Great game all!

[Grundbegriff]

Thanks for your creative and witty hosting, triggercut. Punderheimers everywhere will drink to you as they remember how you, their faithful bard, kept alive the memory of their dear, lost Myopis.

[triggercut]

BTW, kudos to nd, Grund, Leigh, and whomever else evolved the brilliant strategy of keeping one mason quiet while the other becomes a clearinghouse for information. I'm sure that let 2 seers get in touch with 2 masons and put together some formidable coordination.

Kelric suggested a few pages back that such a strategy is unbeatable. I disagree, but I can't fault the vampires, because I wouldn't have thought of the countermeasure to that strategy until too late.

The biggest thing the vamps have going for them is that they can never be conclusively made as such by a seer's dream. Therefore, should a mason come "out", like nd did, I think it behooves the alpha Vamp to immediately go to him and represent that he's a vampire. At that point it would take at least two night turns to disprove him, at which point he might have already collected damning data on the other village roles from the mason.

[Chaosraven]

<----- * not evil *

HA! Oh that's priceless... Leigh I'm going to spank you...

I had a blast. Remind me never to start another discussion with Grund again...


And now I can erase the metric fokkload of PMs (also known as Paranoid Messages) in my Saved and Inbox...

[Grundbegriff]

BTW, kudos to nd, Grund, Leigh, and whomever else evolved the brilliant strategy of keeping one mason quiet while the other becomes a clearinghouse for information. I'm sure that let 2 seers get in touch with 2 masons and put together some formidable coordination.

Credit for the Mason strategy goes to noxiousdog and Leigh. They worked out what I believe is the perfect way to play that hand under this ruleset.

[Mr Bubbles]

You guys killed me.. I swear... Chris went Belly up and was killed.. That pretty much threw the game right there... I knwo it was dangerous, but everyone was accusing someone but the people I picked. I had hoped one person was lynched other then JD or Chris.. I think our chances would have been so much better if they had both lived past the first night.

[triggercut]

BTW, I think the least successful play a villager can make was the one made by Grenard on day 1.

On day 1 ANYONE without a role can end up a vampire. By volunteering to be lynched, Chris unknowingly crippled his team from the start of the game. Until you know which team you're on conclusively, don't volunteer for staking!

(As Grenard hadn't come into his undeadedness yet, when y'all staked him he appeared as a mere villager that first day. This is the first he's heard that he was a vampire.)

[Grundbegriff]

Therefore, should a mason come "out", like nd did, I think it behooves the alpha Vamp to immediately go to him and represent that he's a vampire.

You sure about that, Pecos?

[Mr Bubbles]

Therefore, should a mason come "out", like nd did, I think it behooves the alpha Vamp to immediately go to him and represent that he's a vampire.

You sure about that, Pecos?

Im not sure how it worked, but if Mark had protected Noxious on night one then that would have given a huge advantage to the village. I couldn't take the chance and vote Noxious. My stratagy for picking Crux was it was so obvious that you couldnt' really assertain what that meant. It was the obvious choice and therefore not very telling.

[triggercut]

BTW, kudos to nd, Grund, Leigh, and whomever else evolved the brilliant strategy of keeping one mason quiet while the other becomes a clearinghouse for information. I'm sure that let 2 seers get in touch with 2 masons and put together some formidable coordination.

Credit for the Mason strategy goes to noxiousdog and Leigh. They worked out what I believe is the perfect way to play that hand under this ruleset.

In hindsight (and that strategy was solid enough that were I the alpha vamp, I'd have played it no different from the way Mr. B did) I think if Bubbles had contacted noxiousdog very early and fronted that he was the seer, I think he could've swayed the team to lynch Varity at least. I mean, the alpha can contact the masons and say "I'm a seer, and I dreamt [player x] is an innocent villager". Heck, to boost his cred, he can keep bringing innocent villagers into the fold of the trusted, since he pretty much knows who the innocents might be. It's a risky strategy, but I think it's a good play to at least sow some heavy doubt to throttle back the open coordination on the villager team that took place early in this game.

[triggercut]

Therefore, should a mason come "out", like nd did, I think it behooves the alpha Vamp to immediately go to him and represent that he's a vampire.

You sure about that, Pecos?

Heh, sorry, let "vampire" in this case equal "seer". I'm just awake again after an 11-beer day at the ballpark.

[Chaosraven]

Downfall being that the first player to admit to a mason that he had an ability when he had been "seen" as innocent causes a rift and one of them is lying.

Either the "seer" or the "innocent", and why would an innocent claim to be what he is not?

I'm cracking up because I refused to give up the name of who I thought was the seer to the people who already knew that they weren't...

[Grundbegriff]

Im not sure how it worked, but if Mark had protected Noxious on night one then that would have given a huge advantage to the village. I couldn't take the chance and vote Noxious.

What was your reason for not killing Mark?

[Mr Bubbles]

Im not sure how it worked, but if Mark had protected Noxious on night one then that would have given a huge advantage to the village. I couldn't take the chance and vote Noxious.

What was your reason for not killing Mark?

I knew the seers were hidden. They were the biggest threats. I figured that Mark would protect someone who they felt would be a target. To gain the advantage. I was sure Noxious was the Mason.. You were a villager.. Mark was the hunter. I was hoping to go after a seer.. and I hoped that would buy us a little more time.

[Grundbegriff]

I'm cracking up because I refused to give up the name of who I thought was the seer to the people who already knew that they weren't...

Leigh came up with the idea of leading you to believe she was a Seer. The idea was to see whether she'd end up dead that night (indicting you as a vampire).

She and I were coordinating our PM responses to you.

[Grundbegriff]

I was hoping to after a seer.. and I hoped that would buy us a little more time.

Ah. So your stab at Crux was an attempt to hit a Seer by going for someone with a low profile?

And what was your reason for offing noxiousdog?

[Mr Bubbles]

I was hoping to after a seer.. and I hoped that would buy us a little more time.

Ah. So your stab at Crux was an attempt to hit a Seer by going for someone with a low profile?

And what was your reason for offing noxiousdog?

Well Crux was to throw people off the trail a bit.. Next round was gonna be the best stab at a seer and Noxious.. well he started the bandwagon against Chris.. so he just had to die.

[Grundbegriff]

A man of passion.

Say, triggercut-- based on your observations, how would you tweak the rules, and why?

[triggercut]

A man of passion.

Say, triggercut-- based on your observations, how would you tweak the rules, and why?

The one thing I'd do would be to enact the rule where the alpha picks one cohort the first night...and then he and his teammate pick a third on the third night.

I've been watching all the games here and even 2 over at qt3. The villagers--especially if masons are present--have a tremendous advantage at this point, as everyone learns to play.

The vamps are in a tough spot--you don't want to get anyone on your team lynched without having been seered....so you try to lay low, you try to contribute a little here and there, but it's a tough balancing act. I think the biggest thing the vamps under this ruleset need to explore is the fact that early on, NO ONE can make them conclusively for a vamp. Therefore one member of that team can present himself as a seer or FVH pretty easily. The ruse will probably eventually be discovered and he'll be killed, but in the 2-4 days it takes to reveal him, he's kept the villagers team from getting a whole lot of coordination, and may have even gotten some damaging intel about their role-players.

[triggercut]

Hmm. Just re-read pages 10-12 of the thread. Grenard didn't really volunteer to die early, so much as resign himself to that fact when setas cast the fourth vote against him.

From that point, and it was later at night on a holiday weekend, but if Mr. B was on, his best play would've been to retract his vote for Mark and try to come up with a way to swing the lynching away from CG. Dunno if that was possible--and CG went from alive to lynched pretty quick--but that was another possible chance for the vamps to stay alive.

Keep CG alive at that point might've shown the vamp hand in a damaging way, too though.

[Grundbegriff]

For the record:

On night #1, setaside scanned me and Varity scanned Crux.
On night #2, setaside scanned pr0ner and Varity scanned Mr Bubbles.

[Mr Bubbles]

Certainly not played well on my part, but honestly after losing Chris it really was just a matter of time.

[triggercut]

For the record:

On night #1, setaside scanned me and Varity scanned Crux.
On night #2, setaside scanned pr0ner and Varity scanned Mr Bubbles.

Staking J. D. on day 2 without having him seered first was pretty amazing. Was that an educated guess or a shot in the dark?

[Grundbegriff]

best play would've been to retract his vote for Mark and try to come up with a way to swing the lynching away from CG. Dunno if that was possible--

Retract his vote against Mark? To draw the momentum away from Grenard, persisting in the vote against Mark and getting others to ride that trend was Mr Bubbles's best bet.

[Grundbegriff]

Staking J. D. on day 2 without having him seered first was pretty amazing. Was that an educated guess or a shot in the dark?

Neither. That was actual deduction. I fully showed my hand.

Here's another interesting revelation: The only people who actually replied to my Round 1 PM gambit were Chaosraven, noxiousdog (who had already come out of the Lodge), and Mark (who was PMing a bunch of people anyhow). The rest of my grandstanding about lore was a bluff.

One further tactical observation. At the time I spoke out against the anti-Mark bandwagon, I thought he was probably guilty. At the time I spoke in favor of staking Mark, I thought he was probably the real FVH (since no other candidate had stepped forward).

[triggercut]

best play would've been to retract his vote for Mark and try to come up with a way to swing the lynching away from CG. Dunno if that was possible--

Retract his vote against Mark? To draw the momentum away from Grenard, persisting in the vote against Mark and getting others to ride that trend was Mr Bubbles's best bet.

The plurality rule, not a majority, staked Grenard, though. Retracting his vote would've kept things going for quite a while.

[Grundbegriff]

The plurality rule, not a majority, staked Grenard, though. Retracting his vote would've kept things going for quite a while.

oic

Good point.

[Kelric]

Why you felt you had to pressure me into following your votes Grund by claiming the Seer had seen me as a not a normal villager, I don't know. I was following your votes from the first.

[Grundbegriff]

Why you felt you had to pressure me into following your votes Grund by claiming the Seer had seen me as a not a normal villager, I don't know. I was following your votes from the first.

When I contacted you, Mr Bubbles had been scanned and there were only four people left who had an uncertain status: you, Orinoco, msteelers, and Chaosraven.

I sent all of you both the accusatory note and the request that you prove your allegiance to the Village by following my instructions. I also instructed each of you to vote for the person Varity named.

You weren't singled out as untrustworthy, Kelric. In fact, behind the scenes we were pretty sure you were clean, since you had been voting with the Village while under no pressure at all to do so.

We did believe there was yet another vampire. The news about Grenard came as a surprise.

[Chaosraven]

Funny enough, I sent only what I felt was important info that could help the village if you were on our side, and held back damaging info if you were a vampire...

Until I spilled my remaining info to Nox, figuring *I* would be killed that night (my suspicions regarding those I had been in contact with), when in fact HE got killed.

I had contact from every player other than (if memory serves) Mr Bubbles and varity...

And no kelric, it wasn't just you Grund was pressuring.

[Kelric]

I was so completely off on my vampire guesses in this game. I think that's the first time I've been 0 for 3.

[Grundbegriff]

Whom did you suspect?

[Varity]

Woot! We won.

And even earlier than we had hoped.

triggercut, thanks a bunch for hosting this game. It was really great fun.

Edit:

Kelric suggested a few pages back that such a strategy is unbeatable. I disagree, but I can't fault the vampires, because I wouldn't have thought of the countermeasure to that strategy until too late.

I have to agree with Kelric here. I think that under this ruleset, the game is unwinnable for the vampires, as long as the villagers don't make huge mistakes.

Therefore, should a mason come "out", like nd did, I think it behooves the alpha Vamp to immediately go to him and represent that he's a vampire.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. This just gets the alpha killed during the first lynching, or what am I missing here? Edit:Nevermind.

BTW, kudos to nd, Grund, Leigh, and whomever else evolved the brilliant strategy of keeping one mason quiet while the other becomes a clearinghouse for information. I'm sure that let 2 seers get in touch with 2 masons and put together some formidable coordination.

I think the strategy of outing 2 masons at the start is just as strong as this one. The only disadvantage that I can see is that it disambiguates the identity one one more person (The vampires have 10 unknows instead of 11) but puts up a nice decoy for foolish vampires to go after. Most importantly, it makes the strategy easier to understand and trust for the other players.
To use the single-mason-stategy you also need to come up with the codephrase idea (which was brilliant btw.); I was briefly thinking about public key encryption stuff and dropped that line of thought promptly, as it was unfeasible to turn this game into a computer science lecture.

In hindsight (and that strategy was solid enough that were I the alpha vamp, I'd have played it no different from the way Mr. B did) I think if Bubbles had contacted noxiousdog very early and fronted that he was the seer, I think he could've swayed the team to lynch Varity at least. I mean, the alpha can contact the masons and say "I'm a seer, and I dreamt [player x] is an innocent villager".

The alpha should have tried to pose as a seer; that was the counterstrategy that I was most afraid of. But as long a the masons had played correctly, it would have only taken the masons some time to figure out who is who.
The alpha cannot be sure if he is tasked with identifying an simple villager or being tested on a known special. If he is scanning a simple villager and lies, because he wants to protect his fellow vampire, there is the risk that the masons assign more than one seer to ID the same person and he is being contradicted by 1 or 2 other seers. Once he fails a test, his identity is clear and the villagers have one less vampire to scan for, making up for some of the "lost" scans.

Triggercut, did you customize the messages you sent for every seer or did you copy and paste the same text?


Noxiousdog, what where your reasons for not lynching Grund on the first evening, when, in my mind, he had moved himself to the top of the suspect list? Why did you pick ChrisGrenard?

[ChrisGrenard]

I was a bad pick for vampire. Seeing as I had been one back when, and I was a frenchie over in the other thread, and a super-outspoken mason in the other, I was a HUGE target.

But, yeah, after I was dead I got a pm with the info that I was chosen, I kinda chuckled and told him I was sorry fer screwing him up.

[noxiousdog]

Noxiousdog, what where your reasons for not lynching Grund on the first evening, when, in my mind, he had moved himself to the top of the suspect list? Why did you pick ChrisGrenard?

I did suspect Grund, but he's too valuable to lynch so early. There is no advantage (other than bragging rights) to kill vamps in round 1 or 2.

Either a seer will validate his story, or they won't.

[Varity]

Noxiousdog, what where your reasons for not lynching Grund on the first evening, when, in my mind, he had moved himself to the top of the suspect list? Why did you pick ChrisGrenard?

I did suspect Grund, but he's too valuable to lynch so early. There is no advantage (other than bragging rights) to kill vamps in round 1 or 2.

Either a seer will validate his story, or they won't.

I can't quite follow your reasoning here. I would think that it is always desirable to kill vampires, if you wish to win the game with as little friendly casualties as possible. If we hadn't gotten lucky and killed vamps in every round, we would still be playing and taking losses.
Someone has to be lynched, so why not try to make the best possible move (from your point of view), rather than any move?

I can certainly agree that Grundbegriff is a valuable player to have on ones side, but on the other hand, if you have serious reason to believe that he may be playing against you, it would be equally prudent to take him out, before that same value can be brought to bear against you.