Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

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Chaosraven
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Chaosraven »

In the notes people have made, one thing has been overlooked. Evil cannot pass the Ring. Once you've got it, it has YOU and yer stuck waiting to be scouted. That was my terror journey six... That I would actually be passed the Ring.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

Unagi wrote:I agree with stessier, if the evil team speaks - that changes the entire balance on this one.

That the evil team can Kill and Convert - that's mighty powerful.
the pool to convert was really 6 players. while the killing aspect was only related to freeps, since hobbits were simply captured.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by stessier »

Unagi wrote:
stessier wrote:I don't think letting Sam Wise look for Gollum is a good thing. You already have a way to look for him - toss him the Ring! I was scared of stealing it too early but absolutely terrified of getting it passed to me because there was no way to hide and both sides wanted me dead. Give Gollum some shadows for him to skulk in! :)
Um, yeah - no. The fellowship would like to find you, but they aren't 'passing rings around' to do it.
(perhaps on Journey 5, if the Uruk is dead....) :wink:
You did it this game! Scoop tossed it blind. Theo tossed it Blind. And Brendan tossed it blind. Scoop and Theo could have caught and killed someone with their tosses (Brendan obviously, had more on the line) and still been none the worse for the wear as Scoop would get the Ring back after the lynch. I don't know why he didn't blind toss it that first night (night 4)!
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

Chaosraven wrote:In the notes people have made, one thing has been overlooked. Evil cannot pass the Ring. Once you've got it, it has YOU and yer stuck waiting to be scouted. That was my terror journey six... That I would actually be passed the Ring.
yup me too, i realized if i was passed the ring too soon, i was going to get strung up so fast. I was literally playing the game in hopes of getting the ring passed on the final day. Since if i had been passed the ring prematurely, the hobbit who passed it would notice that it went to a servant, all he needs to do is say "newcastle got the ring", and bam back to square one.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by stessier »

Which is why I think Gollum should be able to steal during the day. A Hobbit points out who is evil, they might kill you, but they won't get the Ring back. :twisted:
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

maybe it should be kill or convert
or
capture or convert


the fact that the hobbits were in effect guaranteed the life of the game, pretty much unbalances things. All they have to do is squeal "imma a hobbit". Unfortunately that defense doesnt work if your name is grund.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

theohall wrote:Well played Btendan. This once again proves I am always wrong about Unagi. And I should not have blabbed about the Ring.

Great ruleset. If Gandalf or any good is given the bounce thing, it would need a corresponding type improvement for bad. Right now, it is darn near perfectly balanced.
I disagree with the balance thing obviously. I felt the Hobbits way over powered. The only interaction evil had with them was "Hey look this guy I'm holding up is a Hobbit. Come get him at your leisure." Making evil prove the good guys hampered them even though they only hit the one. Imagine if they had capture two hobbits. Scoop and Unagi. Don't pass the ring to Unagi until the end and game over. No need to even guess at it and nothing evil could do to stop it at that point. Evil is prevented from winning by their own success at capturing hobbits. Sure, Gollum could play spoiler but Evil is still on the outside looking in simply by accomplishing their goal of attacking Hobbits. Or, try to avoid Hobbits and you reduce the pool of possible converts for your partner.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

Brendan wrote:
stessier wrote:
Codes are meaningless unless they are for Masons where they can complement each other. I'm with Remus, I'll always have a code from now on. Your strategy will have to change.
For it to have been meaningless, his string of numbers would've needed to translate into multiple possible roles depending on whatever system he used to decode them. That seemed unlikely to me. Had he thrown 3 separate codes out, I wouldn't have believed him.

I would be happy for you guys to hamstring yourselves in the future by generating numerous competing codes though. ;)
I believe stessier covered it. What if Chaosraven had put out a code for Hobbit similar to the one you did and a code for Aragorn mixed in another post (maybe some anagram of "I am Aragorn" or something similar (like the "Glass Door" gambit for partner proving Lassr from the batman game).

My point is that if you plant an obvious code then you may as well say right out what you are. If you post a code that is so thick nobody that does not already know it will see it or be able to translate it you may as well not have planted the code since we are still taking your word for it in the end just as though you had come out and said it. There was nothing to prevent an evil Unagi from planting that code. Who was going to call him on it?
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

actually my strategy coming into this game was two fold.

1. spoof aragon at some point if i could. I actually put in a code saying "strider", so i could point at it. Whole reason was to draw out gandalf or strider. Of course it never happened.

2. It was to play the perfect little angel and try to seem as good as possible and gain teh fellowships trust in hopes of being passed the ring at some point. I had intended on putting "hobbit" in one of my posts, but time slipped away from me, and i just got too busy and too far back int he game for it to eb a "credible" option.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

Unagi wrote:I agree with stessier, if the evil team speaks - that changes the entire balance on this one.

That the evil team can Kill and Convert - that's mighty powerful.
Trouble is there was half the good guy team that was immune to kill AND corruption.

BTW Lagom, crappy or so so games do not inspire a lot of post game discussion. I know I have a lot of critiques out there but I do like this game.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by theohall »

Remus West wrote:
theohall wrote:Well played Btendan. This once again proves I am always wrong about Unagi. And I should not have blabbed about the Ring.

Great ruleset. If Gandalf or any good is given the bounce thing, it would need a corresponding type improvement for bad. Right now, it is darn near perfectly balanced.
I disagree with the balance thing obviously. I felt the Hobbits way over powered. The only interaction evil had with them was "Hey look this guy I'm holding up is a Hobbit. Come get him at your leisure." Making evil prove the good guys hampered them even though they only hit the one. Imagine if they had capture two hobbits. Scoop and Unagi. Don't pass the ring to Unagi until the end and game over. No need to even guess at it and nothing evil could do to stop it at that point. Evil is prevented from winning by their own success at capturing hobbits. Sure, Gollum could play spoiler but Evil is still on the outside looking in simply by accomplishing their goal of attacking Hobbits. Or, try to avoid Hobbits and you reduce the pool of possible converts for your partner.
The balance with captured hobbits comes in the form of converting Freeps to make the bad guys outnumber the hobbits. Captured hobbits cannot vote. Had the UH not been killed so early, the outcome of this one would likely have been very different. Bads goal in this one - convert/eliminate Freeps, capture the Ring-bearer and it's game over for the Hobbits before it even gets to the end. I think you are discounting the balance the UH provides, IF he is not killed so early.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Chaosraven »

I would like to see this game run again. Just the way it is. It's interesting as hell.
"Where are you off to?"
"I don't know," Snufkin replied.
The door shut again and Snufkin entered his forest, with a hundred miles of silence ahead of him.

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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Brendan »

Remus West wrote:My point is that if you plant an obvious code then you may as well say right out what you are. If you post a code that is so thick nobody that does not already know it will see it or be able to translate it you may as well not have planted the code since we are still taking your word for it in the end just as though you had come out and said it. There was nothing to prevent an evil Unagi from planting that code. Who was going to call him on it?
If Chaosraven had done as you describe, it would've made my choice slightly more difficult. As it was, Unagi didn't do anything that subtle, so I didn't have to make any judgment calls. Unagi's code was obvious, but unreadable, so it wasn't the equivalent of just saying what he was.

I mean, really, 3 of the 4 hobbits embedded codes at the beginning of the game. Clearly the game rules implied, to the three of us, that there'd be a need for some sort of evidence of one's role.

But I'm sure it'll never work again blah blah blah. :tjg:

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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Chaosraven »

Heh. I tried a first night Misunderstanding of the Rules to show that I only understood the Hobbit Rules, and Unagi stepped in to put forth the Witchking Rules, but that fell flat, I guess. Did put a decent level of suspicion on him during the Grund/stessier gollum debate (and I was so worried we might have actually scouted gollum). Hahaha ask Lagom Lite for my behindthescens panic and Last Speech when remus came out and I thought he had ME instead of redrun.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

if you think about it good guys had an advantage of 10-3 from the start....

3 freeps
2 specials
1 frodo
4 hobbits

bad guys
3

golum
1

now, those 3 freeps if they are smart players, will from the start volunteer to die, to give team good an irreversible advantage, because that's where team evils potential troops come from.

so at best....it can come to 3 conversions...bringing it to 6-6...but...if you think about it...a freep will in all likelihood step forward on day 1 & 2 to allow themselves to be killed so a hobbit isnt killed or exposed.

So right there just one or two freep moves, puts the game in the freeps favor for the rest of the game, barely a few days into the game.

There does need some tweaking...and also lagom, these comments/criticisms are meant for the better and nothing personal.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Evaluation

Post by Grundbegriff »

redrun wrote:Tie votes. How can we resolve ties/stalling? Time limit? Something else?

-- Let the ringbearer decide! Hmmm - could actually do this - it'd force team good to avoid the chance of tie votes if it outed the ringbearer.
I like this. One way to implement it would be to give Frodo a hidden, automatic overvote. (His vote always counts as two votes, although the official tally doesn't reflect this.) That way, whenever a tie is achieved just shy of a majority, whichever side Frodo is on will automatically get the majority. That won't out Frodo, but it'll narrow down the pool of possible Frodoi.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

stessier wrote:Should the Evil Team get to communicate?

Many have said yes. I think, as currently devised, it would break the game to let Uruk and WK talk.
I agree. Allowing private conversations into this ruleset would diminish it. Let the evils fly blind, just as the goods do.
A few possible tweaks:
  • If the Uruk dies, wait a day and the WK can appoint one of his Corrupted Souls as the Uruk. If no one is Corrupted, then no Uruk can be appointed until there is a Corrupted. The day delay is the Good Bonus for taking out Uruk. Yes, the Uruk would then know the WK, but they would have never talked, so I think it could work.
Nice.
[*]Whichever of the Evils makes contact with Boromir, gets to talk to Boromir. So if the WK tries to convert him, he becomes corrupted but can talk with the WK. If Uruk tries to Capture/Kill Boromir, the Uruk gets to talk to him. It's only one or the other, though, not both.
I don't like the talk-with-Bubba paradigm for this game. Boromir's sufficient as a Sorcerer. He doesn't need augmentation. But he could be reconfigured. Right now, he starts as someone who scans as "good" until actually explicitly corrupted. I think it would be fine to start him as a pre-corrupted figure (even eligible to become the new Uruk if the real one dies), but have his superpower be that he always scans as Good Freep for the duration of the game.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

Chaosraven wrote:I would like to see this game run again. Just the way it is. It's interesting as hell.
I would play it again right away (after BSG, say) with only these tweaks:

1. Gollum steals by day; his victim is notified only at the start of the Journey.
2. If Uruk dies, then (after one night without kill/capture) the WK can select a new minion from among his Converts to take over the kill/capture function.
3. Passing the ring to Gandalf automagically sends the ring to Frodo.
4. Any Hobbit who has been a Ringbearer is no longer immune to corruption.
5. Boromir always scans as an uncorrupted Freep, and starts out corrupted.
6. In case of a tie vote where everyone has cast a vote, the team with Frodo on it prevails ("Let the Ringbearer decide").
7. When a Servant Ringbearer is Scouted, the ring goes (randomly) either to Frodo outright, to Gandalf (and thereby to Frodo) if he's still uncorrupted, or to some Hobbit who hasn't been a Ringbearer yet.

Opening up the random possibility that Scouting evil will bounce the ring to a virgin Hobbit introduces mystery about where the ring is, and threatens the number of Hobbits eligible to bear the ring later. This will slightly moderate the Hobbits' domination of the chain of custody.

I would not change the population ratios; I think they're fine.
I would not tamper with the victory conditions; they're fascinating.
I would not allow any behind-the-scenes communication via PMs or private boards.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Unagi »

personally; I think 2,4,5 are too much.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

Frankly I think 2 and 4 may do it. I'm not sure 5 really does anything other than protect Boromir from the Orc. Something has to be done to nerf the Hobbits. Having half the good guys essentially immune from the bad guys is to much. Sure, the Orc can capture but unless every Freep is already dead (which happened on what journey this time around even with Semaj and tru1cy going day 1 then myself and Arcanis shortly there after?) all capturing the Hobbits does is give the good team a known Hobbit to work with.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Lagom Lite »

Chaosraven wrote:Heh. I tried a first night Misunderstanding of the Rules to show that I only understood the Hobbit Rules, and Unagi stepped in to put forth the Witchking Rules, but that fell flat, I guess. Did put a decent level of suspicion on him during the Grund/stessier gollum debate (and I was so worried we might have actually scouted gollum). Hahaha ask Lagom Lite for my behindthescens panic and Last Speech when remus came out and I thought he had ME instead of redrun.
Hehe, yes you wrote a whole slew of hilarious "goodbye/john deer" letters, directed at various roles. ;)

Thanks for the comments everyone; keep them coming!

I agree the Servants were pacified and Hobbits OP when the Uruk died, and that playing a WK Convert wasn't fun. I've got a feeling the WK might change his power of conversion to a Morgul Blade instead (delayed kill, works on all non-Servant players including Hobbits, requires a "Hunt some Orc" equivalent majority vote to save ("Find Elvish Haven/Medicine" or something))... What do you think?

I'm not sure allowing communication between the Servants is a good idea, but I've heard it a few times and I'd like to hear more arguments.

stessier, I'm thick, I'm afraid I don't understand how changing Gollum's Ring-theft to daytime helps him? Could you walk it through for me?

I like letting the Ringbearer decide tie votes somehow. One idea: allowing a "Let the Ringbearer Decide" vote that doesn't need to be a majority vote (requires one less vote than normal to take effect, Ringbearer PMs the mod about whom to scout)? Otherwise, I like Grund's idea of the Ringbearer team getting automatic majority when all votes are cast, though, this culd be used for stalling as well (the evils could simply decline to vote).

I'm negative atm to making Gandalf/Aragorn immune to corruption or letting the Ring "bounce" off them - I'd rather have Gandalf or Aragorn (or any Warrior) talk the Ringbearer out of it in the open thread! ("Don't offer it to me!!!") :twisted:

If WK corruption is removed, I'd like it if Boromir's power, like Grund suggests, could be that he always scans as a Freep, even when holding the Ring.

One less Hobbit, one more Freep (for fourteen players).

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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Brendan »

Lagom Lite wrote:Hehe, yes you wrote a whole slew of hilarious "goodbye/john deer" letters, directed at various roles. ;)
Finally a crack in the aforementioned idiomatic english skills! :D
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Lagom Lite »

Brendan wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:Hehe, yes you wrote a whole slew of hilarious "goodbye/john deer" letters, directed at various roles. ;)
Finally a crack in the aforementioned idiomatic english skills! :D
You know, that same thought struck me on the tram to work. :D

It's Dear John, but in Sweden the John Deer machines are pretty popular, I always chuckle when I see one. So it's more of a mental typo than a true crack in idiomatic english. :P
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by redrun »

-- Following up on Grund's writeup:

1. I wouldn't let Gollum steal during the day - I think it'd make him too powerful.
2. For the Uruk-Hai dying, I perfer the idea that Boromir is notified the same night, becomes corrupted, and gains the Uruk-Hai's abilities. If Boromir is dead, then team evil is in trouble.
3. I don't like the idea that Gandalf is immune to ring corruption - both storyline (he refused to touch the ring because he knew it could corrupt him) and gameplay: makes it less risky for team good to pass the ring.
4. I like the idea that Hobbits lose their protection from corruption after holding the ring for a night... They see the palantiri and are tempted. Frodo is immune from this, and (if you want to complicate things) Samwise is as long as Frodo is free.
5. For Boromir, see 2 above.
6. Tie vote, all voted, ringbearer's vote counts twice. I like this.
7. Scouted Servant Ringbearer causes ring to go to Frodo if free, random.org otherwise?

No tamper with victory conditions, no private communications - agree strongly with these. I'd suggest fewer changes then more changes - I think the tweaking the game might improve it, but that it is pretty good already.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

redrun wrote:-- Following up on Grund's writeup:

1. I wouldn't let Gollum steal during the day - I think it'd make him too powerful.
This is worth discussion. I agree with stessier -- the only man alive apart from Andy Serkis who has played Gollum ;) -- that Gollum needs some mild buffing.
2. For the Uruk-Hai dying, I perfer the idea that Boromir is notified the same night, becomes corrupted, and gains the Uruk-Hai's abilities. If Boromir is dead, then team evil is in trouble.
That's a cool idea. It prolongs Evil's abduction/kill ability and makes Boromir's Borderline Personality Disorder substantive rather than merely nominal. Like.
3. I don't like the idea that Gandalf is immune to ring corruption - both storyline (he refused to touch the ring because he knew it could corrupt him) and gameplay: makes it less risky for team good to pass the ring.
Maybe Gandalf could be resistant to corruption in some "Don't give it to me!" way: the first time (and only the first time) someone tries to give the ring to Gandalf, (a) the ring is returned to the giver, who has to try someone else. The giver thereby learns that his first intended recipient was Gandalf. Next time anyone tries to give Gandalf the ring, Gandalf will be corrupted.
4. I like the idea that Hobbits lose their protection from corruption after holding the ring for a night... They see the palantiri and are tempted. Frodo is immune from this, and (if you want to complicate things) Samwise is as long as Frodo is free.
I like the idea that all Hobbits are corruptible by the WK if (and only if) they've previously been Ringbearers, but that Sam is susceptible to WK-corruption only if he has been a Ringbearer and Frodo is captive or dead.
7. Scouted Servant Ringbearer causes ring to go to Frodo if free, random.org otherwise?
Something has to mix it up a bit. In the current rules, it's just too hard for Evil to get the ring.
No tamper with victory conditions, no private communications - agree strongly with these. I'd suggest fewer changes then more changes - I think the tweaking the game might improve it, but that it is pretty good already.
Agreed. And there are only a few on my list of 7 that I feel strongly about. (Frodo as involuntary tie-breaker, for example.)
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by theohall »

Agreed with all the stuff Grundbegriff suggested.

The Gollum stealing during Chapters would definitely make Chapters more interesting. If Gollum gets the ring at night, everyone knows when it happened. After a ring pass, whomever received the Ring is automatically going to be considered Gollum, unless they have already been proven in some other way - but the only ones those can be are Frodo, corruptibles and evils.

By allowing Gollum to steal during the day, it is unclear when Gollum acquired the Ring. It would be up to the Ring-bearer who lost the Ring to indicate his actions, thus giving away his role in the process. Frodo does not automatically want to surrender his role making him the #1 target for capture and the easy theft mark when reaching the end-game. Other Ring-bearers don't want to announce their roles either. An unknown time when Gollum steals the Ring forces the Fellowship to reveal things they do not want to reveal in order to catch Gollum. The problem for the Fellowship - to catch Gollum they have to make themselves targets for the Servants. It should provide more balance for the Servants.

It could provide more balance for the Servants while still leaving Hobbits abilities as is - as long as the UH kill/capture ability is transferable upon the UH's death.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

The way things stand the only time it matters if a Hobbit is captured is the last round. Until then the Orc should do nothing. Attack nobody and simply wait. Grabbing a Hobbit before the last chance only gives the Fellowship reason to hunt and thus not scout - likely one of their own - while proving one of the untouchables. Hitting a Freep simply reduces the number of players available for corruption by the WK. The Hobbits are way over powered right now.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Scoop20906 »

I think Boromir needs an ability as well. Boromir isn't evil and not in league with the Servants but he has his own designs of the ring much like Gollum.

Boromir can search scan a person each night. If he finds an Uruk, he kills it. If he finds the WK, he is corrupted but with no special powers. If he finds the player with the ring, he secretly steals it. Boromir can hold onto the ring and not be instantly corrupted but he realizes he must escape to keep it. Therefore, the next night he must attempt to kill Aragon by targetting one player. Whomever he targets he kills but if they are not Aragon, then he fails and the ring corrupts him. He simply holds the rings as a servant after that. If he is able to kill Aragon, then the ranger can not track hem and he can escape to his kingdom with the ring.

In this scenario, there are two Uruks and only three hobbits plus Frodo.

Just a thought. I realize this can end the game early but I think it adds some tension to the game.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

Lagom Lite wrote:stessier, I'm thick, I'm afraid I don't understand how changing Gollum's Ring-theft to daytime helps him? Could you walk it through for me?
stessier may have more to say about this (and may have said so already, if I missed it), but these factors seem relevant:

1. The morning's announcement would not be "Team Gollum has the Ring" moments after the theft. Instead, it would say that "Team Whatever has the Ring". The "Team Gollum" announcement would eventually come, but only after a night had passed with Gollum holding the precious.

2. The guy who thinks he has the ring will spend the day planning around that fact, as will the people who think that the ring is with Team Whatever. But tricksie Gollum will have deceived them all, as the former Ringbearer will find out at nightfall, and as the rest will find out the following dawn!
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

Remus West wrote:The way things stand the only time it matters if a Hobbit is captured is the last round. Until then the Orc should do nothing. Attack nobody and simply wait. Grabbing a Hobbit before the last chance only gives the Fellowship reason to hunt and thus not scout - likely one of their own - while proving one of the untouchables. Hitting a Freep simply reduces the number of players available for corruption by the WK. The Hobbits are way over powered right now.
I agree.

Maybe one way to offset this is to associate a cost with Hunting Orc. Right now, there's a benefit associated with Hunting Orc: the team doesn't have to scout anyone. Perhaps Hunting Orc can also cost a life. That way, someone always dies.

Brendan makes a good point in saying that it's nice to play a game that doesn't require a death every turn. So maybe the cost associated with Hunting Orc can be conditional and revelatory: the Designated Orc Hunter who liberates the captive(s) dies only if he has never been a Ringbearer.

This would conserve the pool of corruptibles so the WK isn't crippled by this mechanism, but it would introduce a real risk/cost (the loss of a candidate ringbearer if a hobbit is chosen; the loss of a Hunt Enabler if a Freep is chosen). It would also inform everyone whether the person had ever been a ringbearer.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

I disagree with the no-death thing. I think that is one of the problems. When the number of players does not lessen the chance for evil to control voting does.

Maybe the cost of hunting orc is sacrificing a Hobbit rather than possibly a freep. That way you gain - you get a trusted Hobbit - but also lose a Hobbit at the same time. If it only costs a single (previously free) Hobbit to hunt there is some incentive to waiting and thus maximize your return on that Hobbit life cost yet waiting also risks running out of chances to hunt.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

Actually, I think a pretty good way to incentivize abduction, so the Uruk doesn't have to sit on his paws until the endgame, is to introduce this rule: when anyone is taken captive, the morning Ring Possession announcement doesn't happen, and it doesn't come back until captives are liberated.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Newcastle »

i actually agree that no having to kill someone is a nice bit. It's nice to last deep into these games, makes it more interesting and it doesnt bog down into simpy 4 people looking at each other, and few have been playing the lurking game.

I really think the servants need a mechanism where they can get the ring.

I think gandalf should be able to be corruptible if he is tossed the ring (or the bounce back).

I think if boromir somehow gets the ring, perhaps he gets a "revelation" and knows who his evil partners are.

I think if ring passing is allowed..it should be precisely balanced between team evil & team good...ie both can pass it in a journey & chapter, or both can pass it on a chapter...not hobbits can pass it all the time and evil can only pass during a journey.

I think Boromir getting some sort of power would be a nice addition, maybe a "thieving" power or ability to steal it off frodo?

Something has to be done about the hobbits, or their power neutralized.

Maybe make all a hobbit...and the fellowship automatically can hunt orcs or scout. With the added twist that if they are "corrupted" they go to team evil. And can be corrutped by touching the ring and the witchking. Or maybe some have some resistance to it or no resistance. Meaning...say they have a resitance of 1 or 2. 1 is the weaker and 2 is the stronger. Say if they touch the ring 1 time, they become corrupt, or if they are whispered 1 time, they become corrupt. But it takes 2 contacts for the category 2 to become corrupt.

Also I really think you need to keep in mind lagom, is dont restrict the rules of this game to the lore of LOTR...the theme is great and keep the flavor...because such a restriction could kill fun or even make a strict eventual win for good. Bend the rules a bit is what i am saying to encourage the funness of this rule set.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Remus West »

Grundbegriff wrote:Actually, I think a pretty good way to incentivize abduction, so the Uruk doesn't have to sit on his paws until the endgame, is to introduce this rule: when anyone is taken captive, the morning Ring Possession announcement doesn't happen, and it doesn't come back until captives are liberated.
I like that except that Evil will never know where they stand in terms of winning then. Maybe Evil always knows if they have the ring or not? Maybe just the WK and/or converts know to keep the Orc guessing?
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Grundbegriff »

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Actually, I think a pretty good way to incentivize abduction, so the Uruk doesn't have to sit on his paws until the endgame, is to introduce this rule: when anyone is taken captive, the morning Ring Possession announcement doesn't happen, and it doesn't come back until captives are liberated.
I like that except that Evil will never know where they stand in terms of winning then. Maybe Evil always knows if they have the ring or not? Maybe just the WK and/or converts know to keep the Orc guessing?
Good point. I think it would make game-sense and story-sense for the WK (but not the Uruk) to learn whether the captive has the ring.
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Re: Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Post by Arcanis »

Sweet. Great job fellowship. I was exceedingly proud of blocking conversion on night two and even happier to see it netted us a bad guy, much less their only really chance at victory.

The only thing i didn't like about my role is when i blocked the conversion i knew that it was guaranteed to happen the next night, because the WK knew that Remus was a viable target even if he wouldn't have stepped forward. Maybe not telling WK why his attempt failed so that he has to wonder if it was a protect or not. By the same token don't tell Ar. anything more than he blocked an action, even if it wasn't a viable one.
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