Fellowship of the Ring (WW) - Conclusion

Arcanis · Post by **Arcanis** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:34 pm

Best wishes Bubs

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:20 pm

sure... I like complicated games filled with arguing... I am completely ready for marriage...

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:21 pm

Semaj wrote:sure... I like complicated games filled with arguing... I am completely ready for marriage...

Thank you.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:31 pm

When we starting?

Arcanis · Post by **Arcanis** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:38 pm

Semaj wrote:When we starting?

I think about 10 minutes after they airlock a corp in the other game sounds about right.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:51 pm

I'm down

Hell I would rather play 2 games at once, I miss ye old days.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:16 pm

Arcanis wrote:
Semaj wrote:When we starting?
I think about 10 minutes after they airlock a corp in the other game sounds about right.

This.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:57 pm

Man, I am so going to have to run that Faction game this summer.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:25 pm

Remus West

Edit: Wrong thread.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:31 pm

I was thinking about replaying the Light/Dark game with a couple of tweaks to it.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:58 pm

Remus West wrote:I was thinking about replaying the Light/Dark game with a couple of tweaks to it.

you know I am so IN for that. I have a bunch of ideas for one I want to run

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:25 am

stessier wrote: Remus West

Edit: Wrong thread.

...or is it?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:21 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:
stessier wrote: Remus West

Edit: Wrong thread.
...or is it?

As though I don't have enough people willing to vote me out of any game that I need the Mod to jump in?!!!!

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:39 pm

Randomizing roles...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:49 pm

Hey Lagom -

Do you need a Bad Guy Forum (or two) for this?

I had an idea for a persistent Spoiler Forum so we could go back and look at old games. I set it up and gave the keys to Scoop. (You'll have to ask him what the login and password are). Basically it's possible to have everyone interacting on the same spoiler forum (Cabal, Wolves, Binkies) and no one will see anyone else (their online status, or anything). Keeps things nice and neat.

Just an idea.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:14 pm

stessier wrote:Hey Lagom -

Do you need a Bad Guy Forum (or two) for this?

I had an idea for a persistent Spoiler Forum so we could go back and look at old games. I set it up and gave the keys to Scoop. (You'll have to ask him what the login and password are). Basically it's possible to have everyone interacting on the same spoiler forum (Cabal, Wolves, Binkies) and no one will see anyone else (their online status, or anything). Keeps things nice and neat.

Just an idea.

I'd love to set up a Spoiler forum for this game; that would be great. Thank you. I'd need some help on how to admin it as well since I'm hardly a software wizard. There is no need for a Bad Guy forum, however, since no players - not even the "bad guys", the Servants of the Eye - are allowed private communication.

So, um... I talk to Scoop then? k.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:21 pm

Prologue - Rivendell

Next day Frodo woke early, feeling refreshed and well. He walked along the terraces above the loud-flowing Bruinen and watched the pale, cool sun rise above the far mountains, and shine down, slanting through the thin silver mist; the dew upon the yellow leaves was glimmering, and the woven nets of gossamer twinkled on every bush. Sam walked beside him, saying nothing, but sniffing the air, and looking every now and again with wonder in his eyes at the great heights in the East. The snow was white upon their peaks.

”I do not understand all this,” said Boromir. ”Why do you speak ever of hiding and destroying? Why should we not think that the Great Ring has come into our hands to serve us in the very hour of need?”

”You cannot wield it,” said Aragorn. ”None of us can.”

”What strength have we for the finding of the Fire in which it was made?” said Boromir. ”That is the path of despair, or folly I would say.”

”Despair, or folly?” said Gandalf. ”It is not despair, for despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not. It is wisdom to recognize necessity, when all other courses have been weighed, though as folly it may appear to those who cling to false hope. Well, let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into this heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it. If we seek this, we shall put him out of reckoning.”

”At least for a while,” said Elrond. ”The road must be trod, but it will be very hard. And neither strength nor wisdom will carry us far upon it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere.”

Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace by Bilbo’s side in Rivendell filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.

”I will take the Ring,” he said, ”though I do not know the way.”

Roles are randomized and sent out.

Any player may, at any time, ask the moderator to clarify a rule by sending me a PM or by coloring the question red in the game thread. Feel free to PM me your thoughts and your plans, I will enjoy reading them.

The first Journey will begin as soon as everyone has received their role.

Good luck!

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:03 pm

I might as well kick-start the first Journey, even though everyone hasn't received their role yet. That way, those of you who have Journey actions may send me your orders immediately upon receiving your role - I'm sitting in a european time zone after all, and this saves us some time.

Journey 1 – Caradhras

It was a cold grey day near the end of December. The East Wind was streaming through the bare branches of the trees, and seething in the dark pines on the hills. Ragged clouds were hurrying overhead, dark and low. As the cheerless shadows of the early evening began to fall the Company made ready to set out. They were to start at dusk, for Elrond counselled them to journey under cover of night as often as they could, until they were far from Rivendell. With that the Fellowship left safety.

On the third morning of travel Caradhras rose before them, a mighty peak, tipped with snow like silver, but with sheer naked sides, dull red as if stained with blood. Laboriously they climbed a sharp slope and halted for a moment at the top. Arcanis felt a soft touch on his face. He put out his arm and saw the dim white flakes of snow settling on his sleeve.

They went on. But before long the snow was falling fast, filling all the air, and swirling into Semaj’s eyes. The dark bent shapes of Remus West and Isgrimnur only a pace or two ahead could hardly be seen.

”I don’t like this at all”, panted Grundbegriff just behind.

Chaosraven halted. Snow was thick on his hood and shoulders; it was already ankle-deep about his boots.

”This is what I feared,” said Brendan. ”What do you say now, tru1cy?”

”That I feared it too,” tru1cy answered, ”but less than other things.”

”I wonder if this is a contrivance of the Enemy”, said Scoop20906.

”His arm has grown long indeed,” said Unagi, ”if he can draw snow down from the North to trouble us here three hundred leagues away.”

”Caradhras was called the Cruel, and had an ill name,” said theohall, ”long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not been heard in these lands.”

”It matters little who is the enemy, if we cannot beat off his attack,” said redrun.

”But what can we do?” cried Newcastle miserably. He was leaning on stessier and Arcanis, and he was shivering.

”Either stop where we are, or go back,” said Semaj. ”It is no good going on. We will have to take another way.”

Ringbearer, will you pass on the Ring?
Aragorn, will you protect a player?
Gollum, whose bags will you search?
Witch-King, will you scan a player?
Witch-King, will you corrupt a player?
Uruk-Hai, will you hunt a player?
Gandalf, will you scan a player?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:07 pm

Ways to acquire the One Ring:

Frodo passes it to another Hobbit at the start of Chapter (day) 7.
Frodo passes it to another player if he wishes.
A Hobbit other than Frodo passes it to another player after possessing it during one Journey (night).
Ring passes to Frodo when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched (by players) or killed (by Uruk-hai).
Ring passes to random selection when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched or killed and Frodo is unavailable.
Gollum steals it.

Possible ringbearers: (a) Frodo, (b) non-Frodo Hobbit, (c) Gollum, (d) anyone to whom a Hobbit gives it.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:45 pm

/ooc

i'll be popping here playin a bit tomorrow, kind of busy today and trying to ease out from the end of the starship game...i also think everyone else is in the same boat...i think.

anyway i scanned the introduction, nice write up lagom.

/ooc

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:49 pm

What reason would Frodo ever have to give up the Ring before chapter seven? If he gives it to a nonhobbit it corrupts them. Frodo can't actually be killed other than Scout, right? Ah damn phone... Will somebody ask (in red) what about a Hobbit who previously held the Ring, do we still win if Frodo gives THAT Hobbit the Ring on Chapter Seven or is the target corrupted and we lose?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:13 pm

Ah, gollum is why. Since frodo isn't killed by urukhai, those captured become gollums searchlist to steal it. Same reason he can't step right out and say Hey Guys I'm Frodo, protect My Ass.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:35 pm

Chaosraven wrote:What reason would Frodo ever have to give up the Ring before chapter seven?

If he thinks he's been scanned. If he thinks he's going to be captured. If he's afraid he's about to be robbed. Otherwise, none.

Chaosphoning wrote:what about a Hobbit who previously held the Ring, do we still win if Frodo gives THAT Hobbit the Ring on Chapter Seven or is the target corrupted and we lose?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:41 pm

Grund, I don't think the urukhai can kill a ringearer. If hobbit, frodo or gollum, they are captured. If free, they would have been corrupted before his order is processed, and its a miss, from the way the order looks. LAGOM - CAN FRODO PASS THE RING TO A CORRUPTED HOBBIT IN CHAPTER SEVEN TO WIN? Or is anyone corrupted given the new role of Servant of the Eye?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:55 pm

I would imagine the only reason the ranger would hold off on protecting is to leave his option open the following turn

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:58 pm

Chaosraven wrote: LAGOM - CAN FRODO PASS THE RING TO A CORRUPTED HOBBIT IN CHAPTER SEVEN TO WIN? Or is anyone corrupted given the new role of Servant of the Eye?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:59 pm

So I don't get it. Why would Frodo ever pass the ring at all? Heck, why would we even try to rescue him if he's captured until Day 6? It doesn't look like Gollum can steal it from him if he's captured.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:06 pm

And why not have all the Hobbits come out with Frodo - but not say who is who. We'll know who needs they are so we won't waste time trying to lynch them, the Servants can only lock one up a night - but we can release them all in one day, and Aragon knows not to protect them until we release them on Day 6. Also, if another "Hobbit" ends up getting captured, we know who Gollum is and can take care of him before he can search for the ring after his imprisonment.

Also cuts down on who we have to search through for our lynches.

Maybe I missed something in the rules that makes this a bad idea.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:38 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Ways to acquire the One Ring:

...

...

...

Ring passes to Frodo when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched (by players) or killed (by Uruk-hai).

Ring passes to random selection when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched or killed and Frodo is unavailable.

...
Possible ringbearers: (a) Frodo, (b) non-Frodo Hobbit, (c) Gollum, (d) anyone to whom a Hobbit gives it.

Chaosraven wrote:Grund, I don't think the urukhai can kill a ringearer. If hobbit, frodo or gollum, they are captured. If free, they would have been corrupted before his order is processed, and its a miss, from the way the order looks.

You're right, Chaosraven. The two relevant rules are these:

Tha Rulez wrote: If a Ringbearer other than Frodo is lynched or killed without passing on the Ring, it passes to Frodo.

If target player is a Servant of the Eye, the Uruk will be told by Saruman to stay away from the target. In this case, nothing happens. If target player is uncorrupted Free People, that player is killed. If target player is a Hobbit, Frodo or Gollum, that player is captured.

Given the second of these, it appears that the "or killed" clause in the first is unreachable.

Is that right, Lagom Lite?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:43 pm

stessier wrote:And why not have all the Hobbits come out with Frodo - but not say who is who. We'll know who needs they are so we won't waste time trying to lynch them, the Servants can only lock one up a night - but we can release them all in one day, and Aragon knows not to protect them until we release them on Day 6. Also, if another "Hobbit" ends up getting captured, we know who Gollum is and can take care of him before he can search for the ring after his imprisonment.

Also cuts down on who we have to search through for our lynches.

Maybe I missed something in the rules that makes this a bad idea.

I think you've found a workaround. But rather than put it into action, let's let Lagom have a chance to plug the hole.

(1) Every hobbit including Frodo steps forward and says "I'm a Hobbit"
(2) On the 6th Chapter, we liberate any captives
(3) Frodo passes to another Hobbit on the last day
(4) ???
(5) Sail into the West!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:58 pm

Um... Wouldnt that get the nonhobbits slaughtered? Urukhai kills nonhobbits. Witchking converts. Halfway thru the game everyone is dead or evil except for the hobbits who no longer have majority to get 'unlocked' or lynch a bad guy...

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:03 pm

Shit... Even worse, it gives the witchking a shopping list of hobbits to corrupt, and gollum a list to steal from. Not a Day One plan.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:06 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Um... Wouldnt that get the nonhobbits slaughtered? Urukhai kills nonhobbits. Witchking converts. Halfway thru the game everyone is dead or evil except for the hobbits who no longer have majority to get 'unlocked' or lynch a bad guy...

This is what I was going to say. We have to vote someone to be a 'Scout' every day, which is essentially a lynch.

Good Guys (at start):
Frodo + 4 Hobbits (5)
Warriors of the Free People (3)
Gandalf, Aragorn, and Boromir (3)

Bad Guys (at start):
Witch-King (1)
Uruk-Hai (1)
Gollum (1)

One way around the issue of losing all the Free peoples would be to "sacrifice" two Hobbits as Scouts, but it still won't be enough to get around the Witch-King Conversions in combination with the Scout losses. Have to do some number-crunching, but I think Lagom Lite already did this before setting this up.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:08 pm

Yeah, stessier. Why are you trying to mislead everyone?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:19 pm

Consider these numbers....

If we don't force the Witch-King or Uruk-Hai into being Scouts...

7 Scouts - we lynch 7 of 14 players
Witch-King gets 7 conversion attempts
Uruk-Hai get 7 hunt attempts.

Yeah - self-revealing Hobbits is a very bad idea.

Mass reveal doesn't work either. The Bad Guys can hide in the Hobbit or Free Warriors (which includes Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir) pool and all it does is give them clear targets.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:20 pm

Worst case scenarios run with - Urukhai kills a Nonhobbit, witchking corrupts a Nonhobbit, we Scout a Good Guy of either variety... Putting us at 12 players end of chapter one, with gollum, 3 bad guys, and 8 good guys. Second journey and chapter the same puts us at 10 players, with gollum, 4 bad guys, and 5 good guys. Wait. Add one bad guy and subtract one good guy from each of those. Boromir is a Bad Guy. Yeah, start Chapter three with another corrupt/kill combo and there's a Witchking, and Urukhai, Boromir, and 3 corrupted out of 9 players, with gollum among the remaining 3. Evil has the Lynch power right out in the open. We'd be better off with Hobbits getting captured.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:54 am

Chaosraven wrote:Shit... Even worse, it gives the witchking a shopping list of hobbits to corrupt.

nope on converts (but yes on hunting for the ringbearer).

2. Convert one of the Free People by whispering sweet promises of power into the ear of one player. Corruption this way only works on the Free People but not on Hobbits, Frodo, Gollum or Servants of the Eye.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:15 am

stessier wrote:
Chaosraven wrote: LAGOM - CAN FRODO PASS THE RING TO A CORRUPTED HOBBIT IN CHAPTER SEVEN TO WIN? Or is anyone corrupted given the new role of Servant of the Eye?

Frodo must give the Ring to an uncorrupted Hobbit, or to Gollum, in Chapter 7 in order to win the game for the Fellowship. Otherwise, the Servants win. Giving the Ring to a corrupted Hobbit causes the Servants to win.

Grundbegriff wrote:
Chaosphoning wrote:what about a Hobbit who previously held the Ring, do we still win if Frodo gives THAT Hobbit the Ring on Chapter Seven or is the target corrupted and we lose?

That would be okay. Passing the Ring to a Hobbit that is currently uncorrupted, but who has carried the Ring before, will result in a win for the Fellowship.

I will clarify the rules.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:18 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Ways to acquire the One Ring:

...

...

...

Ring passes to Frodo when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched (by players) or killed (by Uruk-hai).

Ring passes to random selection when another Ringbearer (in any faction) is lynched or killed and Frodo is unavailable.

...
Possible ringbearers: (a) Frodo, (b) non-Frodo Hobbit, (c) Gollum, (d) anyone to whom a Hobbit gives it.

Chaosraven wrote:Grund, I don't think the urukhai can kill a ringearer. If hobbit, frodo or gollum, they are captured. If free, they would have been corrupted before his order is processed, and its a miss, from the way the order looks.
You're right, Chaosraven. The two relevant rules are these:
Tha Rulez wrote: If a Ringbearer other than Frodo is lynched or killed without passing on the Ring, it passes to Frodo.

If target player is a Servant of the Eye, the Uruk will be told by Saruman to stay away from the target. In this case, nothing happens. If target player is uncorrupted Free People, that player is killed. If target player is a Hobbit, Frodo or Gollum, that player is captured.
Given the second of these, it appears that the "or killed" clause in the first is unreachable.

Is that right, Lagom Lite?

Yes, that's right. "or killed" is redundant.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:26 am

MOD NOTES: Everyone has received their role except redrun. I have sent him an e-mail.