Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

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Semaj
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Scoop20906 wrote:So far today we have:
  • Bubbles voting for Lagom and then Lagom retaliating.
  • Kenetickid posts a threat list but comes up with no clear person to vote for.
  • miltonite making sure everyone knows this is his first game.
  • Scoop20906 accusing Semaj.
  • Semaj vigorously defending himself accusing scoop of scoopicide (After I was wrong ONLY ONCE and was right about Arcanis).
  • Lagom switching his vote to Semaj and going along with scoop's vote.
  • For the most part utter silence from Kenetickid, miltonite, and Bubbles.
I'm pulling my vote until I get some participation from the rest of the village. :evil:

 withdrawal Semaj 
 
Smartest move you have made all game.

All I am saying is, it is scoopicide. Grund gets credit for arcanis :)
And I was also going under the assumption you were leading me to my death, making you 0-2 :)
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Scoop20906 wrote:Right now I am torn between voting for Semaj, Mr Bubbles, or Lagom Lite.

I believe that Kenetickid and miltonite are human.
Lagom and Bubs are my big 2... I dunno, Kene could be, but I dont see how the scoop thing plays out atm.

I mean I have an idea how/why... But I dont see it ending well :)

Milton just seems to coy to be the bad guy :)

So yeah, good chance it's me, Lagom or Bubs... I should prolly re-read everything, but I am lazy and waiting for this damn mailman to arrive with my digital camera... which I shouldn't be here for (Stupid canadians)... while I also browse tickets from Buffalo to Vancouver (or buffalo to Seattle, or Toronto to Vancouver...)

So Scoop... yeah... go reread... :)
Some claim to be things they aren't.
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Some claim to know more than they ever will.
I don't claim anything, because no one would believe the truth anyways.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Remus West »

Votes:

1. Semaj -
2. Mr Bubbles - Lagom Lite
3. Scoop -
4. Kenetickid - Scoop
5. Miltonite -
6. Lagom Lite - Semaj

There are 6 of you. Majority is 4.

Totals:
Semaj - 1
Scoop - 1
Lagom Lite - 1
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

OK as a wrap-up for the moment:
Miltonite thinks its me, pretty solidly.
Scoop thinks it's me, somewhat solidly.
Kene isnt sure, but thinks we should vote for scoop(?)
Bubbles is pretty positive Lagom is one.
Lagom thinks Bubbles is one, but voted for me because I might be one.
I asked everyone to re-read the last 3 days and try to do it with a clear mind.

Is this where we are at atm?
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by miltonite »

You got me pegged.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by miltonite »

But that can always change. I am going to re read what I can tomorrow and then post my vote. My mind can always change.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Lagom Lite »

I'm ok with Semaj, but here's the case against Mr Bubbles.

He's pretty quiet on Day 1. There is no interaction between him and Arcanis.
Arcanis wrote:I have also decided to haunt Lagom, not for killing me though, since i want to ogle the Swedish women :P Plus it has to be cooler than it is here.

Sorry Bubbles your avatar is just depressing, plus you didn't get to the vote button fast enough. :doh:
Arcanis names me, and Bubbles in his dying breath. Might not mean anything, then again, it might.
Mr Bubbles wrote:I feel like I have this super power. The power to draw someone's suspicion. I suppose this thread that I post right now will evoke these powers. I just wanted to let everyone know that Grundbegriff is indeed human and he is wrong about me. I just thought I'd put that out there, you know so people don't think I'm a guilty party. Have I been absent lately. Yes I have, but I can assure you that I am a simple goat herder.
Emphasis mine. How could Mr Bubbles be so sure that Grund was human? Because Mr Bubbles knew this for a fact.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Maybe we should kill grund.. you know just to cover our bases, so we don't get duped. If he's innocent we can still move on and win..
This could be an innocent man fishing for wolves, but it's pretty creepy. You don't kill the claimed Seer, you kill the claimed Seer's target.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Ok.. does anyone who is not scoop have a suggestion who is the bad guy. :doh:
Trying to follow someone's lead.

Last but not least:
Mr Bubbles wrote:Oh look Lagom Lite is still alive... Let's see if we can remedy that  Lagom Lite 
 
That might have been a good idea yesterday. I am an easy target to pounce, a wolf would try to get the days running as quickly as possible.

It's a pretty weak case, I admit, but a competent wolf tries not to leave too much paper trail.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Lagom Lite wrote:I'm ok with Semaj, but here's the case against Mr Bubbles.

He's pretty quiet on Day 1. There is no interaction between him and Arcanis.
Arcanis wrote:I have also decided to haunt Lagom, not for killing me though, since i want to ogle the Swedish women :P Plus it has to be cooler than it is here.

Sorry Bubbles your avatar is just depressing, plus you didn't get to the vote button fast enough. :doh:
Arcanis names me, and Bubbles in his dying breath. Might not mean anything, then again, it might.
Mr Bubbles wrote:I feel like I have this super power. The power to draw someone's suspicion. I suppose this thread that I post right now will evoke these powers. I just wanted to let everyone know that Grundbegriff is indeed human and he is wrong about me. I just thought I'd put that out there, you know so people don't think I'm a guilty party. Have I been absent lately. Yes I have, but I can assure you that I am a simple goat herder.
Emphasis mine. How could Mr Bubbles be so sure that Grund was human? Because Mr Bubbles knew this for a fact.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Maybe we should kill grund.. you know just to cover our bases, so we don't get duped. If he's innocent we can still move on and win..
This could be an innocent man fishing for wolves, but it's pretty creepy. You don't kill the claimed Seer, you kill the claimed Seer's target.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Ok.. does anyone who is not scoop have a suggestion who is the bad guy. :doh:
Trying to follow someone's lead.

Last but not least:
Mr Bubbles wrote:Oh look Lagom Lite is still alive... Let's see if we can remedy that  Lagom Lite 
 
That might have been a good idea yesterday. I am an easy target to pounce, a wolf would try to get the days running as quickly as possible.

It's a pretty weak case, I admit, but a competent wolf tries not to leave too much paper trail.
Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster







:wink:
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Lagom Lite »

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:I'm ok with Semaj, but here's the case against Mr Bubbles.

He's pretty quiet on Day 1. There is no interaction between him and Arcanis.
Arcanis wrote:I have also decided to haunt Lagom, not for killing me though, since i want to ogle the Swedish women :P Plus it has to be cooler than it is here.

Sorry Bubbles your avatar is just depressing, plus you didn't get to the vote button fast enough. :doh:
Arcanis names me, and Bubbles in his dying breath. Might not mean anything, then again, it might.
Mr Bubbles wrote:I feel like I have this super power. The power to draw someone's suspicion. I suppose this thread that I post right now will evoke these powers. I just wanted to let everyone know that Grundbegriff is indeed human and he is wrong about me. I just thought I'd put that out there, you know so people don't think I'm a guilty party. Have I been absent lately. Yes I have, but I can assure you that I am a simple goat herder.
Emphasis mine. How could Mr Bubbles be so sure that Grund was human? Because Mr Bubbles knew this for a fact.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Maybe we should kill grund.. you know just to cover our bases, so we don't get duped. If he's innocent we can still move on and win..
This could be an innocent man fishing for wolves, but it's pretty creepy. You don't kill the claimed Seer, you kill the claimed Seer's target.
Mr Bubbles wrote:Ok.. does anyone who is not scoop have a suggestion who is the bad guy. :doh:
Trying to follow someone's lead.

Last but not least:
Mr Bubbles wrote:Oh look Lagom Lite is still alive... Let's see if we can remedy that  Lagom Lite 
 
That might have been a good idea yesterday. I am an easy target to pounce, a wolf would try to get the days running as quickly as possible.

It's a pretty weak case, I admit, but a competent wolf tries not to leave too much paper trail.
Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster







:wink:
Like I said, I'm an easy target to pounce. ;)
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

no one else?

Beuler....beuler....

sigh...

fine...

 semaj 
 


I'd rather not be helpful anymore.

If only milt is going to pretend to try
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Remus West »

Votes:

1. Semaj - Semaj
2. Mr Bubbles - Lagom Lite
3. Scoop -
4. Kenetickid - Scoop
5. Miltonite -
6. Lagom Lite - Semaj

There are 6 of you. Majority is 4.

Totals:
Semaj - 2
Scoop - 1
Lagom Lite - 1
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by miltonite »

Reading through again, we all seem to be the culprit. I am going to go with my original feelings.  Semaj 
 


I sure as hell hope we are right, we only get 1 more shot then game over.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Sigh...

So either

1) The Wolf is already on the pile
2) the wolf doesn't want to be the KB
3) The wolf died of boredom.

So If it's 1: it's lagom or milt... more partial to lagom
if it's 2) it's bubbles or Kene... NFC... Kene is playing odd... Bubs very much could be a wolf... he's coy enough to play one well.

So we have learned nothing....

If you guys are not gonna kill me, and end this godforsaken day, I'ma vote for somoene else.

[/accuse]withdraw semaj[/accuse]

You are gonna make me re-read aren't you.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

 withdraw semaj 
 


Still not sure where I mussed up.. ooohh 2 /'s
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Ok So I am re-reading day 1 as we speak, there were some interesting moments.

But what it boils down to is one of:
Milt, Bubs, Lagon and Kene are wolves.

I'ma throw this one out there, the night 1 miss actually is painful right now, We have 1 more person to worry about when deciding who might be a wolf. We didnt gain an extra day or anything for it.

Day 1 impressions so far...:
Scoop: How are you still alive? Oh yeah, outted ISG, JERK! (No I will totally be teasing you about this for 2 or 3 games :)
Miltonite: If he's evil he's playing the bumbling noob to a hilt. His vote on Scoop damn near gave me a heart attack. It's so out there as a play... I'm thinking not a wolf.
Bubs: Not sure, it's bubs, he's sly...But Arcanis palled up with you and linked himself to you a few times, it's pretty bad play if your a wolf :) You also jumped on the bandwagon with grund for scoop.
Kene: He put the n-1 vote on scoop during a big time and he has hung around all day, Claimed Arcanis was unwolfy, said scoop thought grund was a wold, Isg might be a wolf, no idea on MR B or Milt and lagom might be good. His scoop vote is KILLING me... But it very much could be a newbie thing. Theo also thought you were a baddun.
Lagom: Grund said you were his night 2 scan... Implied you were a bad hombre... You also implied Arcanis and theo worried you so they were "Probably good". you then questioned miltonite. I'm stretching for you other than your vote of me... heh

Thats most of my day 1 impressions.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Holy - i totally forgot about when Arcanis said he protected Kene.... HUGE!
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Semaj »

Arcanis wrote:Well since I'm at N-1 again :roll: and it is probably only a matter of time until one of the 2 people i see as swing votes shows up, i'll go ahead and say my good byes. (take these in good fun guys i'm just messing around since my fate is all but sealed)
Semaj You keep on drinking man. You can invite your friends Jimmy and Jack over for breakfast, they are in my liquor cabinet.
Isgrimnur You sided with Grund early, i understand though. His tangled shaggy hair is just too cute, plus he called seer first. Though you did try and blame me for congratulating myself, a man needs his time to preen sometimes.
Mr. Bubbles keep the bath water flowing and maybe you will provide concealment for the good guys that still live. If you vote me out i will haunt you though :wink:
Scoop you have been after me almost from the get go. I must applaud you for you guts to out yourself and your partner, that level of reverse psychology may pay off.
Kenetickid You betray me! I kept you safe and you cast stones in the morning. But I will forgive you since i voted you first.
Theohall i thank you for you efforts to save me from the Grunbmonster. Unfortunately his mind control powers have taken sway over too many.
Miltonite good luck in your first game. I'll try and remind you that you need to check in occasionally too.
Lagom Lite i haven't heard much from you this game, i guess you are too busy staring at all the hot Swedish chicks. I may have to haunt you just to ogle them. :ninja:
Grundbegriff may your kibble run dry and you have flees :tjg:

His last words :)
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

ok I am willing ot give Kene a pass at this point.

Its going to be amazingly hard to convince me it's milt. If he is the wolf, it's going to be an interesting time convincing the other guy he is.

So I have to think we are in the Probably Bubbles or Lagom bandwagon atm.

Any thoughts peeps?
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Semaj wrote:ok I am willing ot give Kene a pass at this point.

Its going to be amazingly hard to convince me it's milt. If he is the wolf, it's going to be an interesting time convincing the other guy he is.

So I have to think we are in the Probably Bubbles or Lagom bandwagon atm.

Any thoughts peeps?
Lagom? This was Grund's biggest suspicion. Yes I know that he's been wrong in the past obviously, but then he comes out of the blue and saying I'm participating more, when I think I posted once or twice in a couple day period? He would have had to spin that one really far to get that out of my activity level. Obviously I can't prove my innocence, but if you look at his claims, he's been all over the place. Lagom is the baddie and I feel confident about it. I don't have much to go on, but since I know absolutely I'm innocent it makes his accusations that much more suspect. I also that is easy for me to swallow since I do know my role, but Lagom is quick to try different things. The whoa is me card, the "I'm such an easy target". Hell I used that one to death in my days. Make up your own mind, but I suggest going back and analyzing his behavior and his accusations.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

I really wish people would post anything, like: I am still here and reading... it's amazing when I'm the only one really doing much posting for 2 days.

 lagom lite 
 
I choose you (not like anyone else will vote)
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by miltonite »

I am really curious as to why Kenetickid still has his vote for the only verified human. I know he said it was all part of his plan but I don;t see how that could help us out at all. Taking out a human for sure really drops our chance to only one. If you can Kene please explain more.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

miltonite wrote:I am really curious as to why Kenetickid still has his vote for the only verified human. I know he said it was all part of his plan but I don;t see how that could help us out at all. Taking out a human for sure really drops our chance to only one. If you can Kene please explain more.
I can fully explain the strategy behind that Milt but, it will have to wait till the post game posts. If you want to think I am a wolf for it then by all means go ahead but, you will be wrong.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

Almost forgot.....

 Lagom Lite 
 
The world is a swirling maelstrom of death and decay. It's inhabitants feed upon each other in a vile feast of flesh and blood. We should all live this way because it is the way of the universe that the strong survive and the weak PERISH!

Remember, Cthulhu saves too...........He just saves you for last.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

by my count that is N-1 for Lagom now.
The world is a swirling maelstrom of death and decay. It's inhabitants feed upon each other in a vile feast of flesh and blood. We should all live this way because it is the way of the universe that the strong survive and the weak PERISH!

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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

Ok, if you must.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

Semaj seems more and more human to me, and Kinetickid seems more and more wolfish. I'm still partial to Mr Bubbles, and would probably vote for him tomorrow if I were still alive. I have to say, this game has been brain-wracking.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 1

Post by Remus West »

Votes:

1. Semaj - Lagom Lite
2. Mr Bubbles - Lagom Lite
3. Scoop -
4. Kenetickid - Lagom Lite
5. Miltonite - Semaj
6. Lagom Lite - Semaj

There are 6 of you. Majority is 4.

Totals:
Semaj - 2
Lagom Lite - 3
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Paging Scoop Paging Scoop. You are wanting in the men's undergarments department.
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

 withdraw Semaj 
 
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
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Is there anyone in hell?


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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Mr Bubbles »

Lagom Lite wrote:I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
or is your gut going to be filled with me you vile beast!
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Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
or is your gut going to be filled with me you vile beast!
I'm not the wolf, you fanatic! :)
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


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Kenetickid
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:23 am
Location: Anywhere I can get a good game in

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

Lagom Lite wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
or is your gut going to be filled with me you vile beast!
I'm not the wolf, you fanatic! :)
Don't worry Lagom. If your not the wolf I think the village is intent on linching Bubbles next anyway so your death won't be in vain.
The world is a swirling maelstrom of death and decay. It's inhabitants feed upon each other in a vile feast of flesh and blood. We should all live this way because it is the way of the universe that the strong survive and the weak PERISH!

Remember, Cthulhu saves too...........He just saves you for last.
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Lagom Lite
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Lagom Lite »

Kenetickid wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
or is your gut going to be filled with me you vile beast!
I'm not the wolf, you fanatic! :)
Don't worry Lagom. If your not the wolf I think the village is intent on linching Bubbles next anyway so your death won't be in vain.
Hmm. Yes, but I worry that you are the wolf you see.

Or Semaj.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
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Kenetickid
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:23 am
Location: Anywhere I can get a good game in

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

Lagom Lite wrote:
Kenetickid wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:I'm going to have to go with my gut feeling.

 Mr Bubbles 
 
or is your gut going to be filled with me you vile beast!
I'm not the wolf, you fanatic! :)
Don't worry Lagom. If your not the wolf I think the village is intent on linching Bubbles next anyway so your death won't be in vain.
Hmm. Yes, but I worry that you are the wolf you see.

Or Semaj.
Everyone worries that I am the wolf :ninja:
The world is a swirling maelstrom of death and decay. It's inhabitants feed upon each other in a vile feast of flesh and blood. We should all live this way because it is the way of the universe that the strong survive and the weak PERISH!

Remember, Cthulhu saves too...........He just saves you for last.
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Semaj
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 am

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

for good reason
Some claim to be things they aren't.
Some claim things they don't deserve.
Some claim to know more than they ever will.
I don't claim anything, because no one would believe the truth anyways.
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Semaj
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 am

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

ok this is just plain silly...

 withdraw lagom 
 


Anyone wanna notice a trend on the votes today?
Some claim to be things they aren't.
Some claim things they don't deserve.
Some claim to know more than they ever will.
I don't claim anything, because no one would believe the truth anyways.
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Kenetickid
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:23 am
Location: Anywhere I can get a good game in

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Kenetickid »

Semaj wrote:ok this is just plain silly...

 withdraw lagom 
 


Anyone wanna notice a trend on the votes today?
Yea we have noticed a pattern in the votes lately. Every time some gets to N-1 you seem to pull your vote. You are vehemently protesting being a wolf, yet you keep pulling your vote whne anyone gets near a lynch. At this point.........

 Semaj 
 


Just so that we only have to deal with one indesisive person in Scoop.
The world is a swirling maelstrom of death and decay. It's inhabitants feed upon each other in a vile feast of flesh and blood. We should all live this way because it is the way of the universe that the strong survive and the weak PERISH!

Remember, Cthulhu saves too...........He just saves you for last.
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Semaj
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 am

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

Kenetickid wrote:
Semaj wrote:ok this is just plain silly...

 withdraw lagom 
 


Anyone wanna notice a trend on the votes today?
Yea we have noticed a pattern in the votes lately. Every time some gets to N-1 you seem to pull your vote. You are vehemently protesting being a wolf, yet you keep pulling your vote whne anyone gets near a lynch. At this point.........

 Semaj 
 


Just so that we only have to deal with one indesisive person in Scoop.
Why did I pull my vote?

Only 4 people voting... it's a weekend, and more importantly you are jumping on _every_ train there is.

So tell me... any particular reason you seem to think 3 different people are wolves?
Some claim to be things they aren't.
Some claim things they don't deserve.
Some claim to know more than they ever will.
I don't claim anything, because no one would believe the truth anyways.
User avatar
Semaj
Posts: 3685
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:45 am

Re: Simple WW Return of the Hunter(ish)-Day 3?

Post by Semaj »

or better yet, is there anyone you dont think is a wolf?
Some claim to be things they aren't.
Some claim things they don't deserve.
Some claim to know more than they ever will.
I don't claim anything, because no one would believe the truth anyways.
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