Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

This is the place for self-contained forum games

Moderator: Zaxxon

User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

The Cask of Amontillado

”The ’Red Death’ had long devastated the country. No pestilence had ever been so fatal, or so hideous. Blood was its Avatar and its seal – the redness and the horror of blood. There were sharp pains, and sudden dizziness, and then profuse bleeding at the pores, with dissolution. The scarlet stains upon the body and especially upon the face of the victim, were the pest ban which shut him out from the aid and from the sympathy of his fellow-men. And the whole seizure, progress and termination of the disease, were the incidents of half an hour.

But the Baron Montresor was dauntless. When his village was half depopulated, he summoned to his presence his most light-hearted friends from among the neighboring noble families, and with these retired to a private masquerade in the seclusion of his well-guarded Palazzo. The external world could take care of itself. In the meantime it was folly to grieve, or to think. The Baron had provided all the appliances of pleasure. There were buffons, there were improvisatori, there were ballet-dancers, there were musicians, there was Beauty, there was wine. All these and security were within. Without was the ’Red Death.’”




The Cask of Amontillado is a modified Werewolf game about allegiance, betrayal and grim death in old Italy. The setting is based on the novels ”The Cask of Amontillado” and ”The Masque of the Red Death” by Edgar Allan Poe. Much of the flavor text are direct or modified quotes from these novels.

The game is divided into ”Hours” and ”Toasts”. Every Hour, each player must decide whether to mingle, conspire, court or spy. Every Toast, players must vote to have someone unmasked – and pray that the Red Death doesn’t show itself. The nobility’s only chance of survival is to rub shoulders with the right people at the right time, as only two noblemen at the Palazzo possess the means of escape. But only one of these two men will survive…

The game begins with the First Hour, and ends with the Last Toast.



CAST OF CHARACTERS



Image

Montresor
”The thousand injuries of Fortunato you have borne as best you could, but when he ventured upon insult you vowed revenge. At length you will be avenged; this is a point definitely settled – but the very definitiveness with which it will be resolved preclude the idea of risk. You must not only punish but punish with impunity. A wrong is unredressed when retribution overtakes its redresser. It is equally unredressed when the avenger fails to make himself felt as such to him who has done the wrong.

It must be understood that neither by word or deed have you given Fortunato cause to doubt your good will. You continue, as is your wont, to smile in his face, and he does not perceive that your smile now is at the thought of his immolation.”

Victory Condition: Exact vengeance upon Fortunato.

Each Hour, Montresor may:
* MINGLE with a target player of your choice.

If your target is only targeted by you this hour, you are ALONE with your target and will learn his role (Noble, Fortunato, the Red Death).

If your target is trying to SNEAK into the cellar, he will notice that you are on to him and will cease his burglary. You are not notified if you interrupt a SNEAK this way, and the target is not told why he failed.

If Montresor is ALONE with Fortunato AND has PREVIOUSLY learned his identity, Montresor will EXACT VENGEANCE upon Fortunato, triggering Montresor’s victory condition. Upon this, Montresor will escape the Palazzo through the secret catacombs, together with any Nobles who got on his good side.




Image

Fortunato
”Few Italians have the true virtuoso spirit. For the most part their enthusiasm is adopted to suit the time and opportunity, to practice imposture upon the British and Austrian millionaires. You, Fortunato, pride yourself on your conoisseurship in wine. In this matter you are sincere.

But other things draw you to Montresor’s masquerade. You have studied forbidden old tomes and ancient lore. The Red Death may be overcome by other, unlooked-for means. In the deep wisdom of occult Kabbala you have found strange keys to the realm of death and blood. There may be things they want. And the final clue lies in Montresor’s Palazzo.”

Victory Condition: Strike a deal with the Red Death.

Each Hour, Fortunato may:
* MINGLE with a target player of your choice.

If your target is only targeted by you this hour, you are ALONE with your target and will learn his role (Noble, Montresor, the Red Death).

If Fortunato is ALONE with the Red Death AND has PREVIOUSLY learned his identity, Fortunato will STRIKE A DEAL with the Red Death, triggering Fortunato’s victory condition. Upon this, Fortunato will leave the Palazzo, together with any Nobles who got on his good side.




Image

The Red Death

”The ’Red Death’ has long devastated the country. No pestilence has ever been so fatal, or so hideous. Blood is your Avatar and your seal – the redness and the horror of blood. There are sharp pains, and sudden dizziness, and then profuse bleeding at the pores, with dissolution. The scarlet stains upon the body and especially upon the face of the victim, are the pest ban which shut him out from the aid and from the sympathy of his fellow-men. And the whole seizure, progress and termination of the disease, are the incidents of half an hour.”

Victory Condition: Kill every living soul in the Palazzo. Don’t let anyone escape.

Each Hour, the Red Death MUST:
* INFECT a currently uninfected player of your choice with the Red Plague.

Infecting a player has no effect as long as the Red Death is MASKED. Infected players are not told when they are infected. Should the Red Death ever become UNMASKED, all infected players will DIE INSTANTLY and any subsequent infections will KILL INSTANTLY.

Infected players who escape the Palazzo before the Red Death is UNMASKED, will survive.

The Red Death does not need to be ALONE with his target for his infection to succeed.

Infecting a player does not interfere with MINGLING.




Image

Nobles

”While the lesser plebeians of Italian stock die in droves outside the gates, you have been fortunate enough to get yourself invited to Montresor’s fabulous masquerade in his Grand Palazzo. Some of your family warned you against him; indeed – he is an excentric old curmudgeon, but then much of your family died in pain while your open mind was rewarded.

However, you are not sure Montresor can keep you entirely safe. Rumors abound of the hedonist Fortunato and his delvings into strange literature. Fortunato has seen such prosperity in his life that it can scarcely be believed that certain external powers did not have a hand in providing it. Proving your friendship to either of these gentlemen is an act of prudence.”

Victory Condition: Survive the masquerade by getting on Montresor’s or Fortunato’s good side.

Each Hour, a Noble may choose to do one of the following:

* SNEAK down to the wine cellar to bring up a Cask of Amontillado. This is only successful if you are not targeted by Montresor AND no other player is successfully SNEAKING this Hour.

* MINGLE with a target player of your choice.
If your target is only targeted by you this hour, you are ALONE with your target and will learn his role (Noble, Fortunato, Montresor, the Red Death).

If you have stolen a Cask of Amontillado you will automatically and for the rest of the game treat everyone you MINGLE with to a goblet of Montresor’s outstanding Amontillado, even if you are not ALONE with them. If you are not ALONE with your target, those players targeting your target will receive a goblet of Amontillado as well. If you manage to treat Fortunato with a goblet of Amontillado, you get on Fortunato’s good side, as well as learning his identity. Fortunato will be told your identity.

If you have previously learned about Fortunato’s identity AND Fortunato is currently MASKED AND you are ALONE with Montresor, you will tell Montresor about Fortunato’s identity and get on Montresor’s good side. Montresor will be told your and Fortunato’s identity.



MECHANICS OF MINGLING

* Each player decides what to do each Hour by sending a PM to the Moderator, containing the name of the desired action (Mingle, Sneak, Infect, Abstain) and the name of the target player, if any. Once an order is sent, it is final, so take your time.

* Hour turn sequence:
1. Nobles, Fortunato and Montresor MINGLE and SNEAK.
2. Nobles get on someone’s good side, if eligible.
3. Fortunato triggers his victory condition, if eligible.
4. Montresor triggers his victory condition, if eligible.
5. The Red Death INFECTS.
6. The Red Death triggers his victory condition, if eligible.

* Posting in the game thread during Hours is allowed and encouraged.

* To determine whether or not you are ALONE with a player while mingling, only the number of players targeting your target is considered. If none, one or several players target YOU, and you target BOB whom no one else targeted, you have been ALONE with BOB. If one or more players targeted BOB as well, however, you have not been ALONE with BOB.

* The only notification a target of mingling will ever receive is if the target is Montresor or Fortunato and the action resulted in the mingler getting on their good side.

* There is an unlimited supply of Casks of Amontillado in the cellar, but you only need to charm Fortunato once to get on his good side.

* If BOB and MIKE both SNEAK into the cellar at the same time but MIKE is targeted by Montresor, BOB will successfully steal a Cask of Amontillado.

* It is possible to get on both Montresor’s and Fortunato’s good sides – one does not exclude the other (as long as you keep quiet about it!).

* Even if Fortunato has already had a goblet of Amontillado, he won’t say no to another.

* Goblets of Amontillado are instantly consumed upon reception. With the exception of Fortunato, players are not told the identity of the player presenting them with Amontillado.

* Even if Montresor already knows Fortunato’s identity, he will appreciate the gesture – unless Fortunato’s identity is already public knowledge.

* Red Plague infection does not interfere with MINGLING.



A TOAST, SIGNORI!

* After each Hour, the guests of the Palazzo must raise their glasses and Toast to the good health of one player. Each player may vote to Toast to the health of (player name) using (accuse) tags.

* When majority is reached, the toastee UNMASKS himself to receive the praise. This REVEALS HIS ROLE TO ALL (Nobleman, Montresor, Fortunato, the Red Death).

* If the the Red Death is UNMASKED, any player that is currently INFECTED with the Red Plague will DIE.

* You may only Toast to a currently MASKED player.

* No player may self-vote.

* When a victory condition is triggered, the game ends. Any player who is not included in the triggered victory condition lose the game.



Last edited by Lagom Lite on Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:57 am, edited 7 times in total.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Please post your thoughts, especially if you see loopholes in the rules.

If the rules seem ok and people want to play, I can host this after James Bond.


1. Isgrimnur
2. theohall
3. Chaosraven
4. Grundbegriff
5. Newcastle
6. msteelers
7. Qantaga
8. rshetts2
9. redrun
10. Vorret
11. Kenetickid
12. Unagi
13. Remus West
14. Lassr
Last edited by Lagom Lite on Fri Sep 10, 2010 11:16 am, edited 15 times in total.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82311
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Isgrimnur »

I am INtrigued.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
theohall
Posts: 11697
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:01 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by theohall »

This looks awesome. Unmasking could kill a whole bunch of folks at once? Cool!

Definitely IN. Nice variation, LL.

Could be as fun as the Drinking with Angel and Demon game.
redrun
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:27 am

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by redrun »

-- This looks really interesting, but I'm wondering about some points in the rules. It well could be I'm seeing ghosts and it would play out fine, but I'll throw my thought out...

The Alone thing makes me nervous. Getting a bottle of wine will be hard enough, however later in the game - several people may know both of Montresor & Fortunato - they will keep trying to get with Montresor and blocking one another. Get another couple of folks with bottles of wine after Fortunato & they'll just keep blocking. The game turns into a giant stalemate for everyone except the Red Death and Fortunato.

It seems to me that all the Red Death needs to do to win is infect Fortunato & get him unmasked, or wait until he is unmasked then infect him.

Is there any reason for Montresor not to announce on the first turn, and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Others may want to fake the role, but they will outed in a turn (via folks who spend time with them and are disappointed not to have met Montresor).

Is there any reason for Fortunato not to announce on the first turn and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Sure, Montresor is going to 'find' him the first night - but other players are probably going to be sure to share the job of visiting Fortunato every night to avoid Montresor killing him.

Does the Red Death have an action where he visits folks and learns their identity? Can he go for a bottle of wine (I hope not, in that he could use this ability to block the wine off).

One thought that comes to mind is that while folks won't know who mingled with them, it might be useful to know who else mingled with the same person you did. If A & B are blocking one-another they'll have options - find a way to take turns, find a way to get the other unmasked (and hope they die). One way or another you need to keep the thoughtless bore from interrupting your very important conversation! Another thought - if you target the Red Death to hang with for the hour, the Red Death cannot infect you - a means where a player can stop out of a blocking position, but not worry that they've increased their chances of infection.
Sufficient I am to the day.
User avatar
Chaosraven
Posts: 20235
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:26 am

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Chaosraven »

IN... Now let me go read what this is
"Where are you off to?"
"I don't know," Snufkin replied.
The door shut again and Snufkin entered his forest, with a hundred miles of silence ahead of him.

Sweet sweet meat come. -LordMortis
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

redrun wrote:-- This looks really interesting, but I'm wondering about some points in the rules. It well could be I'm seeing ghosts and it would play out fine, but I'll throw my thought out...

Thanks, I appreciate it. I won't explain too much or counter your arguments unless I have to because I don't want to give away my thinking - that'll be up to the players - but I'll take everything you write to heart.
redrun wrote:The Alone thing makes me nervous. Getting a bottle of wine will be hard enough, however later in the game - several people may know both of Montresor & Fortunato - they will keep trying to get with Montresor and blocking one another. Get another couple of folks with bottles of wine after Fortunato & they'll just keep blocking. The game turns into a giant stalemate for everyone except the Red Death and Fortunato.
Working as intended. There are ways to deal with this.
redrun wrote:It seems to me that all the Red Death needs to do to win is infect Fortunato & get him unmasked, or wait until he is unmasked then infect him.
Indeed.
redrun wrote:Is there any reason for Montresor not to announce on the first turn, and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Others may want to fake the role, but they will outed in a turn (via folks who spend time with them and are disappointed not to have met Montresor).
There are reasons for Montresor to not announce.
redrun wrote:Is there any reason for Fortunato not to announce on the first turn and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Sure, Montresor is going to 'find' him the first night - but other players are probably going to be sure to share the job of visiting Fortunato every night to avoid Montresor killing him.
There are other reasons for Fortunato to not announce.
redrun wrote:Does the Red Death have an action where he visits folks and learns their identity? Can he go for a bottle of wine (I hope not, in that he could use this ability to block the wine off).
No, he will have to guess, and he can't go for the wine. In a way the Red Death is probably the least entertaining role to play, but I hope the fact that you get to play as the grim reaper makes up for that. :)
redrun wrote:One thought that comes to mind is that while folks won't know who mingled with them, it might be useful to know who else mingled with the same person you did. If A & B are blocking one-another they'll have options - find a way to take turns, find a way to get the other unmasked (and hope they die). One way or another you need to keep the thoughtless bore from interrupting your very important conversation!
Interesting observation! Thank you.
redrun wrote:Another thought - if you target the Red Death to hang with for the hour, the Red Death cannot infect you - a means where a player can stop out of a blocking position, but not worry that they've increased their chances of infection.
For the integrity of the ruleset, the Red Plague should be uninterruptable.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33593
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Remus West »

Chaosraven wrote:IN... Now let me go read what this is
+1
Do you think we have a problem?
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Grundbegriff »

Can't say 'no' to Poe. Pass the absinthe.
User avatar
Newcastle
Posts: 10130
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:22 am
Location: reading over a shoulder near you

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Newcastle »

Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:IN... Now let me go read what this is
+1
Do you think we have a problem?
+1

Nevah, nevah I say

Heck you could put "WW - Little Red Robin hood style", and ya know, I would be INNN all over that.

seriously am in for the drink
Bayraktar!!!!

Trump and the GOP; putting the banana in our Republic.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Patch Notes 1.01

TWEAKS
* Montresor's Mingle target will now fail at Sneaking.
* Fortunato was moved up on the Hour Turn Sequence.

CLARIFICATIONS
* Clarified the Hour Turn Sequence.
* Clarified Infection rule (Infection does not interfere with Mingling).
* Clarified Hour gameplay (send orders by PM:ing the Moderator, orders are final, posting is allowed).
* Renamed the role "Nobleman" to "Noble".
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

This looks pretty interesting, especially if it's starting after the James Bond game. It will give me some time to look over the rules and figure out what is going on.

IN.
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

So the Red Death's victory condition is really just kill Fortunato, right? With Fortunato dead the nobles that side with Fortunato cannot escape and Montresor cannot complete his victory condition, so any nobles that side with him cannot escape. The game could be over with the first toast if the Red Death infects Fortunato in the first hour and then is the recipient of the first toast.

I think the game is unbalanced with the way the rules are currently set. The Red Death can win in the very first turn, and is guaranteed to win by the 8th turn (assuming we have 8 players), while everyone else has to get extremely lucky to win. I just don't see how Montresor or Fortunato will be able to fulfill their victory conditions without a massive amount of luck.

Unless I'm completely misreading the rules, which is possible.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

msteelers wrote:So the Red Death's victory condition is really just kill Fortunato, right? With Fortunato dead the nobles that side with Fortunato cannot escape and Montresor cannot complete his victory condition, so any nobles that side with him cannot escape. The game could be over with the first toast if the Red Death infects Fortunato in the first hour and then is the recipient of the first toast.

I think the game is unbalanced with the way the rules are currently set. The Red Death can win in the very first turn, and is guaranteed to win by the 8th turn (assuming we have 8 players), while everyone else has to get extremely lucky to win. I just don't see how Montresor or Fortunato will be able to fulfill their victory conditions without a massive amount of luck.

Unless I'm completely misreading the rules, which is possible.
You've understood the rules perfectly, and it will indeed be a tough nut to crack if the Nobles can't work as a team.

Is the Red Death too powerful? If so, do you have suggestions on how to limit his power?
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

Possible suggestions to fix this would be that the Red Death can infect only Nobles, but Montresor and Fortunato are immune. The Red Death would only learn they are immune after he is unmasked, either because he had previously infected them and they didn't drop dead like anyone else or because he infected them after he was unmasked and they didn't instantly die. That means that the Red Death cannot just kill Fortunato and win, he has to kill all of the Nobles to trigger his victory condition. That's a minimum of five turns, which is better than the 1 turn with the way the rules currently are.

I also think the Nobles victory conditions could be lowered. I find it highly unlikely that any Noble will be able to make it into the cellar AND be alone with Fortunato before the Red Death wins...or even be alone with Fortunato and THEN with Montresor after that. I think Nobles should just be converted to either side if they are alone with them. So if I'm a noble and I find myself alone with Montresor, I'll be converted to his side. If I find out who Fortunato is after the conversion, Montresor will also be told of his identity. Same with Fortunato and the Red Death.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

msteelers wrote:Possible suggestions to fix this would be that the Red Death can infect only Nobles, but Montresor and Fortunato are immune. The Red Death would only learn they are immune after he is unmasked, either because he had previously infected them and they didn't drop dead like anyone else or because he infected them after he was unmasked and they didn't instantly die. That means that the Red Death cannot just kill Fortunato and win, he has to kill all of the Nobles to trigger his victory condition. That's a minimum of five turns, which is better than the 1 turn with the way the rules currently are.

I also think the Nobles victory conditions could be lowered. I find it highly unlikely that any Noble will be able to make it into the cellar AND be alone with Fortunato before the Red Death wins...or even be alone with Fortunato and THEN with Montresor after that. I think Nobles should just be converted to either side if they are alone with them. So if I'm a noble and I find myself alone with Montresor, I'll be converted to his side. If I find out who Fortunato is after the conversion, Montresor will also be told of his identity. Same with Fortunato and the Red Death.
Think of it this way. There are three game-ender characters:
* Fortunato, who 1. needs to find out who the Red Death is and 2. then be alone with him,
* Montresor, who 1. needs to find out who Fortunato is and 2. then be alone with him, and
* The Red Death, who 1. needs to infect Fortunato (but can do it blindly) and 2. get himself unmasked, in any order.

All three game-ender characters CAN end the game quickly, but they can also all be blocked by Nobles. And while the Red Death has an easier victory requirement, no other player will ever want to help him, and each Hour increases the likelyhood that one or more Nobles will know about the Red Death's identity.

The Nobles have a harder victory condition than Fortunato or Montresor, but they aren't in danger when unmasked, and can win in more than one way.

I think the Red Death could be tweaked slightly, but I also want the other players to fear him. Making Montresor and Fortunato immune to infection is too much. And I think you are underestimating the Nobles - they are the only players who can organize themselves openly.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Qantaga
Posts: 3566
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Qantaga »

I'd like to tag along, too, Lagom. It looks like you've got a wINning formula here.

This looks very cool.

While I've only tried fairly basic WW games over at GT, I find that I enjoy them thoroughly and I'd like to try swimming in the deep end with this one, at least until the Red Death pulls me under. :)
If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumber'd here while these visions did appear
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Let me go back to redrun's post and answer it properly - after all, what's the point of having a pre-game discussion otherwise... :P
redrun wrote:The Alone thing makes me nervous. Getting a bottle of wine will be hard enough, however later in the game - several people may know both of Montresor & Fortunato - they will keep trying to get with Montresor and blocking one another. Get another couple of folks with bottles of wine after Fortunato & they'll just keep blocking. The game turns into a giant stalemate for everyone except the Red Death and Fortunato.
Nobles are free to organize themselves in the open game thread.
redrun wrote:Is there any reason for Montresor not to announce on the first turn, and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Others may want to fake the role, but they will outed in a turn (via folks who spend time with them and are disappointed not to have met Montresor).
If Montresor announces, he will probably get infected. Also, what would he gain from self-outing? Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
redrun wrote:Is there any reason for Fortunato not to announce on the first turn and thus never need to worry about being unmasked? Sure, Montresor is going to 'find' him the first night - but other players are probably going to be sure to share the job of visiting Fortunato every night to avoid Montresor killing him.
Montresor will know who he is, like you say, and Fortunato will become dependent on altruistic Nobles to keep him alive - this is Italy, and "altruistic Nobles" is an oxymoron - and the Red Death will know whom to infect. Like with Montresor, there is nothing to gain from self-outing. Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

Lagom Lite wrote:All three game-ender characters CAN end the game quickly, but they can also all be blocked by Nobles. And while the Red Death has an easier victory requirement, no other player will ever want to help him, and each Hour increases the likelyhood that one or more Nobles will know about the Red Death's identity.
Two things. Montresor's team will want to make sure the Red Death is never alone so that Fortunato's team cannot trigger their victory condition. And the other thing is that the nobles cannot block the Red Death like they can Montresor and Fortunato. Sooner or later we will HAVE to unmask the Red Death, and that will either immediately win the game for the Red Death, or start the end-game since every round somebody will die. I don't think he's too powerful, I just think it doesn't give the other teams enough of a chance to satisfy their victory conditions.

Another thing I just thought of is what happens if two or more people initiate their victory conditions at the same time? Let's say Montresor is alone with Fortunato and Fortunato is alone with the Red Death. I see that Fortunato's victory condition is triggered before Montresor's. Is there a reason for that?

Also, I don't know if nobles will act the way that you want them to. Nobles are independent until they join either Team Fortunato or Team Montresor. Agreeing to let someone into the cellar before me might actually hurt my chances of winning.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I like the game concept and setting. I just have a feeling the game is heavily favoring the Red Death.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

msteelers wrote:Two things. Montresor's team will want to make sure the Red Death is never alone so that Fortunato's team cannot trigger their victory condition.
Yes. If the Red Death is active (unmasked), Fortunato and his team must wait until all Montresor-sympathisers are dead, or become Fortunato-sympathizers.
msteelers wrote:And the other thing is that the nobles cannot block the Red Death like they can Montresor and Fortunato. Sooner or later we will HAVE to unmask the Red Death, and that will either immediately win the game for the Red Death, or start the end-game since every round somebody will die. I don't think he's too powerful, I just think it doesn't give the other teams enough of a chance to satisfy their victory conditions.
The Red Death wins by default if the Nobles cannot get along.

The minimum amount of successful actions for a Noble to get on someone's good side is 2 (wine + Fortunato or Fortunato + Montresor). The minimum to get on BOTH of their good sides is 3 (wine + Fortunato + Montresor). The minimum number of actions required for a "good guy win" is still 2, since Montresor and Fortunato pursue their goals independently. Every player has 8 turns (assuming 8 players) to achieve his goals. Not everyone will get on the train, but not everyone will know whom to block unless Fortunato or the Red Death have become unmasked - and this should be quite possible for the group to avoid, assuming at least one or two scans get though every Hour.

Perhaps more players is the answer to your concerns? 8 players = maximum 8 turns, but 12 players = maximum 12 turns. But then, finding Montresor/Fortunato scales as well, and other factors.
msteelers wrote:Another thing I just thought of is what happens if two or more people initiate their victory conditions at the same time? Let's say Montresor is alone with Fortunato and Fortunato is alone with the Red Death. I see that Fortunato's victory condition is triggered before Montresor's. Is there a reason for that?
Rules wrote:* Hour turn sequence:
1. Nobles, Fortunato and Montresor MINGLE and SNEAK.
2. Nobles get on someone’s good side, if eligible.
3. Fortunato triggers his victory condition, if eligible.
4. Montresor triggers his victory condition, if eligible.
5. The Red Death INFECTS.
6. The Red Death triggers his victory condition, if eligible.
The reason I moved Fortunato up was partly to compensate for Montresor's recent anti-Sneak ability, and also to reflect the fact that Fortunato will tend to need more time to complete his goal (he is less likely to win before Red Death unmasking because of potential Noble informants to Montresor).
msteelers wrote:Also, I don't know if nobles will act the way that you want them to. Nobles are independent until they join either Team Fortunato or Team Montresor. Agreeing to let someone into the cellar before me might actually hurt my chances of winning.
That is the very premise of the game though. If players can't get along, the Red Death will take them. But if they put too much trust in each other, they might get screwed by their neighbor instead.

If the Red Death becomes unmasked, the Nobles are indeed in a tight spot. But if they try to wait the game out, they are doomed as well. They have to be active and try to cooperate to survive, while keeping their wits about them to increase their chances of becoming one of the lucky chosen ones.

Nobles do not join team Montresor or team Fortunato exclusively, they can join both.
msteelers wrote:I'm not trying to be a jerk, I like the game concept and setting.
I didn't take it that way, I appreciate your involvement and notes! But I don't see how the Red Death is overly favored, at least not yet. Right now I'm actually more concerned with the Nobles. I'm trying to figure out and pre-empt possible Noble-conspiracy exploits, thus the recent change to the Sneak mechanism.
msteelers wrote:I just have a feeling the game is heavily favoring the Red Death.
Good... Good... Keep that feeling... :twisted:
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

msteelers, if you can think of some minor tweak to the Red Death that doesn't involve immunities or infection interruptions, please post them here! I don't want to give the impression that I'm brushing off your concerns, I just need to reflect and put the pieces together.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

Lagom Lite wrote:msteelers, if you can think of some minor tweak to the Red Death that doesn't involve immunities or infection interruptions, please post them here! I don't want to give the impression that I'm brushing off your concerns, I just need to reflect and put the pieces together.
I'm not sure. As you pointed out, adding more players increases the number of turns, but also adds more nobles to screw everything up.

What about adding a Prince Prospero type character, who messes with the Red Death somehow? Maybe if he is alone with the Red Death after finding out his identity, he kills the Red Death and that is his victory condition. That would make it so that the Red Death doesn't automatically win if he gets lucky and kills Fortunato early, but at the same time now you have two characters going after the Red Death for their victory condition.

What I'm trying to say is I don't know. :D
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Grundbegriff »

msteelers wrote:Maybe if he is alone with the Red Death after finding out his identity, he kills the Red Death and that is his victory condition. That would make it so that the Red Death doesn't automatically win if he gets lucky and kills Fortunato early
Right! It would make it so that Prospero automatically wins if he gets lucky and kills the Red Death early!

I don't know whether the rules are balanced as they stand, but I'm willing to try them out as they stand.
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Grundbegriff »

Albert and Barbara
Clarence and Debbie
Ephraim and Fiona
Graeme and Harriet
Iago and Janice
Kai and Loretta

Suppose there are twelve players. One is the Reaper, one is M and one is F. However, everyone is claiming to be a Noble.

One problem the Nobles face is the sherry. If everyone clamors for the sherry, then nobody will acquire it. If nobody acquires it, then nobody will get on Fortunato's good side. If nobody gets on Fortunato's good side, then nobody will be able to get on Montresor's good side. So it is imperative to develop a scheme for enabling acquisition of Amontillado.

Montresor can take the slow route to finding Fortunato: mingling nightly and hoping that the one with whom he chooses to mingle is a singleton. Or Montrestor can support the fast route to finding Fortunato: support the Nobles' efforts to acquire the sherry, so that any wine-bearer who happens to find Fortunato will be able to identify F to M when they mingle.

Suppose everyone agrees to break off into pairs, as shown above, with the understanding that on the first night, only Albert & Barbara will go for the wine, and with the further understanding that Montresor will try to mingle with one of them (thus thwarting that one's attempt to sneak). Only two things can thwart an attempt to sneak: a visit from Montresor or an additional attempt to sneak. So (all else equal) either Albert or Barbara will gain Amontillado.

Here's a way to prevent that additional attempt to sneak:
Clarence and Debbie agree to mingle with Ephraim. Ephraim and Fiona agree to mingle with Graeme. Graeme and Harriet agree to mingle with Iago. Iago and Janice agree to mingle with Kai. Kai and Loretta agree to mingle with Clarence.

If everyone keeps the agreement, then nobody will learn another's role and either Albert or Barbara wins a bottle. However, if anyone breaks formation to go screw around with Albert or Barbara, the formation-breaker's partner will learn a role, and thus also learn that his mingle-partner broke formation.

For example, suppose Ephraim and Fiona agree to mingle with Graeme. But suppose Fiona is actually Fortunato who (despite a lust for Amontillado) wishes to thwart Albert or Barbara's attempt to exploit Fortunato and thereby garner Montresor's favor. Well, if Fiona decides to mingle with Albert or Barbara in an attempt to thwart that person's sneakage, then Ephraim will learn Graeme's identity-- something that shouldn't happen if Fiona sticks to the plan. So Ephraim will know that Fiona was freelancing instead of trying to mingle with Graeme.

Assuming this two-on-one mingle pattern coupled with a pair who try for the wine and a guarantee from Montresor that he will thwart one of them to ensure the success of the other, sherry-accession should occur at a rate of one bottle per night.

Of course, Montresor will be hiding among the Nobles, and will have to break the two-on-one pattern in order to thwart one of the two wine-seekers each night. This has the tacit effect of revealing to Montresor's mingle-partner that Montresor broke form. Of course, that's not necessarily a problem, since Montresor wants people to have an idea who he is so they can bring him Fortunato on a platter. Yes, there's a risk that the one who observes Montresor as he breaks form will be Death. But then, there's always a risk that Death will learn (one way or another) the identity of Montresor.

Fortunato also has an incentive to play along: anyone he observes in the act of breaking formation is either Montresor or Death, and Fortunato wants to identify Death as quickly as possible.

Thoughts?
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Grundbegriff wrote:One problem the Nobles face is the sherry. If everyone clamors for the sherry, then nobody will acquire it. If nobody acquires it, then nobody will get on Fortunato's good side. If nobody gets on Fortunato's good side, then nobody will be able to get on Montresor's good side. So it is imperative to develop a scheme for enabling acquisition of Amontillado. Montresor can take the slow route to finding Fortunato: mingling nightly and hoping that the one with whom he chooses to mingle is a singleton. Or Montrestor can support the fast route to finding Fortunato: support the Nobles' efforts to acquire the sherry, so that any wine-bearer who happens to find Fortunato will be able to identify F to M when they mingle.
Getting on Fortunato's good side is not a pre-requisite for getting on Montresor's good side.

A Noble who finds Fortunato only needs to then find Montresor, the wine is not required. Given this, would Montresor still want people sneaking about in his cellar? Montresor doesn't really NEED any Noble to find Fortunato for him, and letting people ally with Fortunato is downright dangerous.
Grundbegriff wrote:Suppose everyone agrees to break off into pairs, as shown above, with the understanding that on the first night, only Albert & Barbara will go for the wine, and with the further understanding that Montresor will try to mingle with one of them (thus thwarting that one's attempt to sneak). Only two things can thwart an attempt to sneak: a visit from Montresor or an additional attempt to sneak. So (all else equal) either Albert or Barbara will gain Amontillado.
If Albert and Barbara openly declares to SNEAK, and Montresor does NOT target either one of them, neither Albert nor Barbara finds wine. The scheme you propose depends on Montresor's good will and willingness to let people get on Fortunato's good side? I think I would be alright with that.

Am I mistaken?
Grundbegriff wrote:Thoughts?
I'm going to enjoy having you in this game. :)
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Grundbegriff »

Lagom Lite wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:One problem the Nobles face is the sherry. If everyone clamors for the sherry, then nobody will acquire it. If nobody acquires it, then nobody will get on Fortunato's good side. If nobody gets on Fortunato's good side, then nobody will be able to get on Montresor's good side. So it is imperative to develop a scheme for enabling acquisition of Amontillado. Montresor can take the slow route to finding Fortunato: mingling nightly and hoping that the one with whom he chooses to mingle is a singleton. Or Montrestor can support the fast route to finding Fortunato: support the Nobles' efforts to acquire the sherry, so that any wine-bearer who happens to find Fortunato will be able to identify F to M when they mingle.
Getting on Fortunato's good side is not a pre-requisite for getting on Montresor's good side.
Right, but getting on Montresor's good side is the only way to give him an incentive to participate. If nobody's trying to route Fortunato's identity to him, then why should he bother to prevent Albert and Barbara from canceling one another out?

Ergo, if nobody finds wine, nobody finds friendship in Fortunato, and if nobody finds friendship in Fortunato, then nobody means more than a trifle to Montresor.
A Noble who finds Fortunato only needs to then find Montresor, the wine is not required.
Ah. I thought you meant that if Bubba had mingled with Fortunato prior to mingling with Montresor, Bubba would only be permitted to divulge Fortunato's identity to Montresor if Bubba was in tight with Fortunato.

If that's not what you meant-- i.e., if Bubba can reveal Fortunato to Montresor irrespective of the wine-- then maybe you should consider making things the way I thought you had made them. Otherwise, there'll be little reason to bother with the wine at all.
Lagom Lite wrote:If Albert and Barbara openly declares to SNEAK, and Montresor does NOT target either one of them, neither Albert nor Barbara finds wine. The scheme you propose depends on Montresor's good will and willingness to let people get on Fortunato's good side? I think I would be alright with that.

Am I mistaken?
Yes, that's sort of the point.

Montresor has absolutely no reason to cooperate with anyone, and has every reason to thwart any plan to raid his cellar. However, if finding Forunato (M's victory condition) were facilitated/expedited by M's compromise with the Nobles, then he'd have some decisions to make.

Right now, Montresor's decision is whether to mingle with someone. He'll always try to mingle either (a) with someone he thinks is Fortunato, or (b) with someone who might be trying to rob him. So Montresor's gameplay consists of randomly or intuitively cycling through players one by one until he's lucky.

Meanwhile, in the absence of a systematic approach to taking the sherry, there's a paradox. If many nobles try, all will fail. So why bother? But if none bothers, then any who tries is slated for success. So why not try? But if many try....

Without wine, it's impossible to please Fortunato, so most Nobles will simply not bother aspiring to please Fortunato. They'll just hunt for Fortunato (as Montresor is doing), and then hunt for Montresor to let him know which player is Fortunato.

So it should be made easier to acquire the sherry. Right now, the odds that trying will lead to success are too remote.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33593
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Remus West »

Unless I misread something you do not need to get on his good side by having wine to identify him. If you do identify him then you can get on M's good side. Being friends with F requires the wine finding his identity just requires mingling with him.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Grundbegriff wrote:[If that's not what you meant-- i.e., if Bubba can reveal Fortunato to Montresor irrespective of the wine-- then maybe you should consider making things the way I thought you had made them. Otherwise, there'll be little reason to bother with the wine at all.
However: If Fortunato ever becomes unmasked, it will be impossible to get on Montresor's good side from then on. So sneaking off to the cellar instead of doing what has been agreed in the open thread may become more alluring.

However, countering THAT is the fact that if Fortunato gets unmasked the game is nearly over anyway.

You have a point here.

Question is, should:
1. The wine be easier to steal, if so, in what way, or:
2. Should Montresor's victory condition be tougher, or:
3. Should Fortunato be easier to get along with?

One variant could be this: Successfully stealing a Bottle of Wine instantly gets the offender on Fortunato's good side, without having to find him. It is assumed that the thief buys the whole company a round, and Fortunato appreciates this.
Grundbegriff wrote:Montresor has absolutely no reason to cooperate with anyone, and has every reason to thwart any plan to raid his cellar. However, if finding Forunato (M's victory condition) were facilitated/expedited by M's compromise with the Nobles, then he'd have some decisions to make.
While Montresor do not need the Nobles, they may make his life easier if one of them finds Fortunato. He won't want anyone to steal his wine, however, by targeting those he suspects are sneaking into the cellar, he is not trying to find Fortunato since Fortunato can't Sneak.
Grundbegriff wrote:Right now, Montresor's decision is whether to mingle with someone. He'll always try to mingle either (a) with someone he thinks is Fortunato, or (b) with someone who might be trying to rob him. So Montresor's gameplay consists of randomly or intuitively cycling through players one by one until he's lucky.
Is this a problem? Is it too boring? I can see how Montresor is less exciting to play than Nobles, but so is Fortunato and especially the Red Death.
Grundbegriff wrote:Meanwhile, in the absence of a systematic approach to taking the sherry, there's a paradox. If many nobles try, all will fail. So why bother? But if none bothers, then any who tries is slated for success. So why not try? But if many try....
Yes. Is this a problem? The "public" play becomes trying to find Fortunato to pass the findings on to Montresor. But some Nobles may be trying for back-door shenanigans, to instead (or, as well) please Fortunato.
Grundbegriff wrote:Without wine, it's impossible to please Fortunato, so most Nobles will simply not bother aspiring to please Fortunato. They'll just hunt for Fortunato (as Montresor is doing), and then hunt for Montresor to let him know which player is Fortunato. So it should be made easier to acquire the sherry. Right now, the odds that trying will lead to success are too remote.
What if stealing wine immediately gets you on Fortunato's good side? Could that be a solution?
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Remus West wrote:Unless I misread something you do not need to get on his good side by having wine to identify him. If you do identify him then you can get on M's good side. Being friends with F requires the wine finding his identity just requires mingling with him.
Correct. Both "getting on good sides" have two steps. Please see my above post re: rules change to make the Fortunato step shorter though!
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
theohall
Posts: 11697
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:01 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by theohall »

Grundbegriff wrote:So Montresor's gameplay consists of randomly or intuitively cycling through players one by one until he's lucky.
Noble gameplay, without openly stating what they will do, consists of the same with the addition of sneaking. After all, a Noble has to learn Montresor's or Fortunato's identity to get anywhere.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Patch Notes 1.02

TWEAKS
* Changed Amontillado dynamics (After a player has successfully Sneaked, he will from then on treat every player he mingles with and those mingling with his target to a goblet of Amontillado, even if he is not alone with them, making it easier to get on Fortunato's good side).

CLARIFICATIONS
* Removed the phrase "Bottle of Wine" from Amontillado descriptions (Amontillado is sherry, a cask does not contain bottles)
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
rshetts2
Posts: 6648
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:16 am
Location: North of 8 Mile (whew)

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by rshetts2 »

Im a WW rookie but this game seems very interesting. Ill give it a shot if theres room for me.
Well do you ever get the feeling that the story's too damn real and in the present tense?
Or that everybody's on the stage and it seems like you're the only person sitting in the audience?
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

rshetts2 wrote:Im a WW rookie but this game seems very interesting. Ill give it a shot if theres room for me.
Sure is. Welcome aboard!
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
Grundbegriff
Posts: 22277
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:46 am
Location: http://baroquepotion.com
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Grundbegriff »

Lagom Lite wrote:CLARIFICATIONS
* Removed the phrase "Bottle of Wine" from Amontillado descriptions (Amontillado is sherry, a cask does not contain bottles)
Presumably one taps the cask and fills up a bottle, one of many empty bottles on hand. And since sherry is a wine product, I think you were ok in the first place.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

Grundbegriff wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:CLARIFICATIONS
* Removed the phrase "Bottle of Wine" from Amontillado descriptions (Amontillado is sherry, a cask does not contain bottles)
Presumably one taps the cask and fills up a bottle, one of many empty bottles on hand. And since sherry is a wine product, I think you were ok in the first place.
Well, nevermind. It's casks and goblets now, it'll do :)

What do you think about the rules change? Anything else needs tweaking? I'm mostly concerned with game-breakers, since this is the first game of its kind that I host, but comments are always welcome.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
redrun
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:27 am

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by redrun »

Lagom Lite wrote: If Montresor announces, he will probably get infected. Also, what would he gain from self-outing? Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
-- Apparently I can't read. I'd read it as an infected player who unmasks dies or an umasked player dies when infected, rather then an infected player dies when the red death unmasks.

-- I wish I'd had time for Mr. Bond's little adventure, but I'm hoping that Mr. Poe will come to the forefront in mid-September at which time I can be INvolved.
Sufficient I am to the day.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

redrun wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote: If Montresor announces, he will probably get infected. Also, what would he gain from self-outing? Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
-- Apparently I can't read. I'd read it as an infected player who unmasks dies or an umasked player dies when infected, rather then an infected player dies when the red death unmasks.

-- I wish I'd had time for Mr. Bond's little adventure, but I'm hoping that Mr. Poe will come to the forefront in mid-September at which time I can be INvolved.
Great! Welcome! :)

Yes, players only start dying when the Red Death is unmasked.
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
theohall
Posts: 11697
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:01 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by theohall »

redrun wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote: If Montresor announces, he will probably get infected. Also, what would he gain from self-outing? Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
-- Apparently I can't read. I'd read it as an infected player who unmasks dies or an umasked player dies when infected, rather then an infected player dies when the red death unmasks.

-- I wish I'd had time for Mr. Bond's little adventure, but I'm hoping that Mr. Poe will come to the forefront in mid-September at which time I can be INvolved.
The Red Death:
1) An infected player who unmasks dies.
2) An unmasked player dies when infected.
3) ALL infected players die when the Red Death unmasks. So getting to the Red Death early is important.
User avatar
Lagom Lite
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:18 pm
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by Lagom Lite »

theohall wrote:
redrun wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote: If Montresor announces, he will probably get infected. Also, what would he gain from self-outing? Self-announcing just to avoid unmasking makes no sense, since the only effect of unmasking is self-outing.
-- Apparently I can't read. I'd read it as an infected player who unmasks dies or an umasked player dies when infected, rather then an infected player dies when the red death unmasks.

-- I wish I'd had time for Mr. Bond's little adventure, but I'm hoping that Mr. Poe will come to the forefront in mid-September at which time I can be INvolved.
The Red Death:
1) An infected player who unmasks dies.
2) An unmasked player dies when infected.
3) ALL infected players die when the Red Death unmasks. So getting to the Red Death early is important.
1) and 2) is incorrect. Are the rules unclear?
But you've seen who's in heaven
Is there anyone in hell?


"Lagom you are a smooth tongued devil, and an opportunistic monster" - OOWW Game Club
User avatar
msteelers
Posts: 7173
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Contact:

Re: Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Pre-discussion & sign-ups

Post by msteelers »

theohall wrote:The Red Death:
1) An infected player who unmasks dies.
2) An unmasked player dies when infected.
3) ALL infected players die when the Red Death unmasks. So getting to the Red Death early is important.
#2 is wrong I believe. All infected players die when the red death is unmasked. Once the red death is unmasked, players die as soon as they are infected.

Edit to add that I misread #1, and that is wrong too. Even #3 might be wrong, based purely on poor strategy. I would imagine you want the Red Death to be exposed last, because once he kills Fortunato, the game is over. He can't kill anyone until he is unmasked, which means he can't win until he is unmasked.
Last edited by msteelers on Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply