The Cask of Amontillado (WW) - Game Over!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:25 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:what constitutes Known Identity: unmasked? Singlemingle? Inthread reveal?
Unmasked or Singlemingle only. Inthread reveal could be a lie, you know.

of course it could... Why else would the Red Death claim to be Fortunato? I mean seriously, I even spelled it with a D instead of a T. Gosh.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:26 pm

Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:well that was an interesting hour.
It should confirm my sneakiness of the first hour.
You suck. No only did I get blocked Mingling with Chaosraven, I did not get any more tasty wine.

I have a monopoly on wine, sorry

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:27 pm

My mingle was blocked, so those of you with no wine, breathe easy. Now I will get to find out if my new friend will betray me...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:27 pm

I do know who the RD is.
I've known since the very first Mingle. I never actually mingled with Qantaga, just knew he was safe to expose.

So, yeah.

I'm not having any fun really either to be honest.

There is nothing to do, or push for, or really even try and effect. Even if I know who everyone is, that doesn't even hardly change things.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:42 pm

Chaosraven wrote:My mingle was blocked, so those of you with no wine, breathe easy. Now I will get to find out if my new friend will betray me...

It depends on what you plan to do next.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:49 pm

Unagi wrote:I do know who the RD is.
I've known since the very first Mingle. I never actually mingled with Qantaga, just knew he was safe to expose.

So, yeah.

I'm not having any fun really either to be honest.

There is nothing to do, or push for, or really even try and effect. Even if I know who everyone is, that doesn't even hardly change things.

agreed Unagi, am kind of bored right now...there really is nothing to push for, and there is a huge traffic jam as the pool of peeps continues to dwindle....sorry lagom....but i shall continue!

By the way, can we please get me unmasked, so i am no longer being cockblocked....figure that will give me a bit more leeway! I promise cupcakes and some of my in flask whiskey for al!!

Thanks!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:56 pm

Vorret wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:My mingle was blocked, so those of you with no wine, breathe easy. Now I will get to find out if my new friend will betray me...
It depends on what you plan to do next.

i search for red death, as I was before. The rest of your former friends will have to deal with the conundrum of accessing wine and mingling. You hold the power to protect or betray. Granted, the others can prevent your betrayal if they wish.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:03 pm

I promise to be a big help while you try and mingle with the RD, Chaos.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:19 pm

Unagi wrote:I promise to be a big help while you try and mingle with the RD, Chaos.

you might be better off either mingling with me (without wine) and verifying my id, then mingling with grund to get his favor. Or going after the wine and joining me. Sadly, if you already know the RD, nothing prevents you from playing a losing game by blocking me from him, in truth.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:34 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Unagi wrote:I promise to be a big help while you try and mingle with the RD, Chaos.
you might be better off either mingling with me (without wine) and verifying my id, then mingling with grund to get his favor. Or going after the wine and joining me. Sadly, if you already know the RD, nothing prevents you from playing a losing game by blocking me from him, in truth.

Oh, that's just it though.
There is no fun trying to mingle with you or grund at this point, I'm sure someone will pull it off - but it's not something I am finding 'fun'.

Now, given our history - it actually could be sorta fun to just totally block you... just to sorta - well, isn't it you that takes great pleasure sometimes in just messing with someone?

I'm very much resolved to not winning this game. Night after night of blocked actions will have that effect.

So, why not keep the Raven down with me? At least that's something I can actually totally 100% Control.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:44 pm

In a no-win scenario, the 'take you down with me' mentality is actually lordmortis and remus (as evidenced by his most recent Screw You Guys I Am Getting Wine post). I do it to see what happens unless I have a better plan. It is a legal play, certainly, to stop me. Which means my ally would be better served to betray me to ensure his opportunity to win. Of course that same mentality is usually directed toward the person who has cost you the game...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:46 pm

You could just out the Red Death and we could unmask him. Then we are at worst two hours away from done as he takes out Grund and Chaosraven. If you are playing to lose anyway that would be the route to take. Of course, you would need enough other Nobles to agree to commit suicide and I doubt you will get them.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:47 pm

Chaosraven wrote:In a no-win scenario, the 'take you down with me' mentality is actually lordmortis and remus (as evidenced by his most recent Screw You Guys I Am Getting Wine post). I do it to see what happens unless I have a better plan. It is a legal play, certainly, to stop me. Which means my ally would be better served to betray me to ensure his opportunity to win. Of course that same mentality is usually directed toward the person who has cost you the game...

Hey, that was totally him. I had nothing to do with that.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:51 pm

For example, if Unagi elects to mingleblock me from the RD, while Remus mindlessly pursues the wine as kenetickid refuses to even read merely sending an order to pursue wine, and my winebuddy protects me from grundM, the game turns on Grunds decision to block either winesneaker, removing them from the endless cycle, or the Red Death and the path of infection. I am more likely to be infected as a Winning Condition than Unagi who is simply irritating me. Meaning in two turns, we are pretty well assured that GrundM and ChaosF are infected and Red Death wins. That setup is entirely in the hands of frustrated angry nobles, and the only one to remove them is RD, who is fine with a status quo of Blockage as it affects him not at all.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:53 pm

Remus West wrote:You could just out the Red Death and we could unmask him. Then we are at worst two hours away from done as he takes out Grund and Chaosraven. If you are playing to lose anyway that would be the route to take. Of course, you would need enough other Nobles to agree to commit suicide and I doubt you will get them.

actually One Hour. If red eliminates me, M cannot fulfill his win condition.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:59 pm

this might seem unsporting....but...i'd have to say...

unmask the red death

I really hate sounding like an asshat here lagom and i apologize since I want to be respectful of your game and you as a person..but i think i would like to figure some way of ending it...with KK participation being slow and the low chance of winning methods..something needs to be revamped here.

what's everyone elses thoughts? am willing to roll however

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:59 pm

An interesting note, if Fortunato is Unmasked, no player can then join Monty. Of course, then Monty requires but a single singlemingle to win with any previously held partners. Once again, simply blocked by any noble mingling with F.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:59 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Remus West wrote:You could just out the Red Death and we could unmask him. Then we are at worst two hours away from done as he takes out Grund and Chaosraven. If you are playing to lose anyway that would be the route to take. Of course, you would need enough other Nobles to agree to commit suicide and I doubt you will get them.
actually One Hour. If red eliminates me, M cannot fulfill his win condition.

Good point. That said, I've already decided upon my course of action for the forseeable future so my "screw with Chaosraven" clause is extending the game until turn whatever when the RD has everyone infected. That way you keep trying to win and the failure is much more pronounced. Of course, if I somehow manage to get wine then that changes as I mingle with you to get you drunk and (no, sicko) then mingle with Grund to get to be his friend too. Then I'd read the rest of the rules to see if that creates any chance of my winning.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:01 pm

Newcastle has the Kevorkian Gordian answer. In a single move, the game is ended. Unmask red death, night begins and red death infects Fortunato and the game ends with a red death win.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:09 pm

Attempting to win thru F is futile if a Single player who knows RD chooses to lose. Attempting to win thru M is futile if a Single player who is on Fs tema chooses to stop M. All of the avenues of winning are complicated by the limited spaces of winning team. All of them are eliminated by any player choosing to simply lose and drag all the rest down. An automatic loss is available to a majority of 8. In any of these, Red Death wins.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:11 pm

I too think this rule set does not work well. I find myself not caring because I can't see anyway for me to win now. When M & F were hidden I saw a chance to win with M.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:16 pm

It turned ugly quite fast.
I beleive I'm the noble who has the "best" chance to win, though pulling it through will be one hard task.

It's now a game of sheer luck...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:54 pm

Lassr wrote:I find myself not caring because I can't see anyway for me to win now. When M & F were hidden I saw a chance to win with M.

Exactly.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:03 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Unagi who is simply irritating me.

I haven't done anything yet.
Up to this point I've; found the RD, had my mingle blocked twice, and failed to sneak once.
So, I can ponder over and over: "I wonder if I should Sneak or if I should Mingle with Grund", while every other Noble (save Vorret) asks themselves the same question...

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:04 pm

Lassr wrote:I too think this rule set does not work well. I find myself not caring because I can't see anyway for me to win now. When M & F were hidden I saw a chance to win with M.

the logistics of making that happen are a nightmare. First you must either get wine and then mingle with F, or mingle with F alone. Then you must mingle with M alone. Then M must mingle with F alone. When hidden, both F and M stand a better chance winning alone. Tripping over every single player, the odds get worse and worse every hour. Nobody is mingling with players X, X+1, X+2, etc as these players are unmasked. But they are still part of the group tripping over each to mingle with remaining players. 14 mingling with 14 possible targets is bad enough, look how we did the first day. But after 7 hours, there are 14 going after 7. Evenly split that blocks everyone. Without serious coordination amongst the players the odds are very low any nobles will be included in a win. As the game continues, the odds for F or M to succeed fall as well.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:08 pm

Unagi wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Unagi who is simply irritating me.
I haven't done anything yet.
Up to this point I've; found the RD, had my mingle blocked twice, and failed to sneak once.
So, I can ponder over and over: "I wonder if I should Sneak or if I should Mingle with Grund", while every other Noble (save Vorret) asks themselves the same question...

I think the crux of my thoughts of trying to end the game, is there is very little drama and leeway. it seems to be a mess and tangle of traffic jams. There is very little, how should I say...sense of urgency or accomplishment. It's more...ok a quick toast...ok night action...oh yeah...back to the toast...

But I am willing to roll however, I simply think there needs to be a revamp of the rules since one of hte killers I think has been orders coming in very late...ie kinetic kid...who has earned my ire and shall be a future lynch target and wolf snack target.....

again no disrespect Lagom, so sorry if i take the lamers route out of the game.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:15 pm

Back from work after a long last night teaching.

So let me get this straight-- you all believed me? Fascinating.

There must've been a lot of pent-up frustration in this game.

Sweeping aside all the debris for a moment, I'd like to nominate theohall as today's unmaskee. I know him to be a Noble.

Put that behind your necktie, theohall!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:19 pm

Unagi wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Unagi who is simply irritating me.
I haven't done anything yet.

no offense, dear. In describing my scenario you are 'blocking playerX, who has the RD avenue locked, to the detriment of Fortunato and those in his favor' and No Threat to Red Death, who infects F instead.

Up to this point I've; found the RD, had my mingle blocked twice, and failed to sneak once.
So, I can ponder over and over: "I wonder if I should Sneak or if I should Mingle with Grund", while every other Noble (save Vorret) asks themselves the same question...

whereas I have been blocked three times, and the single sucess was me finding Montresor. Why would you mingle with Grund? That only does you any good if you have mingled with me.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:23 pm

Well in order to increase Unagi's interest in the game I will confirm him as a noble. You may safely toast him. Unagi

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:26 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Well in order to increase Unagi's interest in the game I will confirm him as a noble. You may safely toast him. Unagi

So we have me confirming theohall and rshetts2 confirming Unagi. A bit more of that and you'll be delivering the Red Death straight to Fortunato.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:33 pm

yeah, I kinda think thats the way things are headed.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:41 pm

I don't know who to beleive at this point.
I know only one 100% sure noble.

I'll go with my guts and

Unagi

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:59 pm

rshetts2 wrote:Well in order to increase Unagi's interest in the game I will confirm him as a noble. You may safely toast him. Unagi

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:33 pm

Mod note: Well, y'all have 48 hours to decide whether we should continue or whether we should throw the game into post-mortem.

If people aren't having fun, there's no reason the game should continue. However, if you would like to see it played out, that is of course fine with me as well.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:41 pm

Unfortunately this game suffers from much the same issue that the RScott games did once a 'team' reaches insurmountable conditions. But the teams are all the way down to individual players with loss of hope. All it takes is a couple of them to wreck any possibility for the others who wish to try. A decision to continue would have to be unanimous, wouldn't it?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:48 pm

Chaosraven wrote:A decision to continue would have to be unanimous, wouldn't it?

I'm open to continuing and will place my orders in a reasonable amount of time...but I probably will temper my participation...which i hate to do. I'd hate to ruin other people's fun. Sorry to be such a buzzkill.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:27 pm

I am in the same boat as Unagi. I know the Red Death, but with no wine for F and so many nobles trying to mingle with M, I'm unsure how knowing the RD helps me escape the castle either alive or sane, other than keeping RD from being unmasked.

I do also know another noble's identity, but will (of course) keep that info to myself for now.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:42 pm

I'm not going to sabotage the game. I will play along with votes and submitting orders, I just think the time to wait between orders should not be held up several days for one or two folks. Let's move this to fast forward and see if anything gets accomplished or if we are in an endless if-then loop.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:44 pm

toast theohall

I assume someone will stop us if we get close to lynching the RD...or will they...

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:46 pm

toast theohall