Global Thermonuclear War [WW] - Game Over - Alliance Wins

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:05 am

Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:I've intercepted yet, another SA message.

I'll keep quiet for now, but, at some point if the majority wants I'll have to reveal the culprit.
Why keep it quiet?

To know who's in it.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:16 pm

Vorret wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:I've intercepted yet, another SA message.

I'll keep quiet for now, but, at some point if the majority wants I'll have to reveal the culprit.
Why keep it quiet?
To know who's in it.

How is keeping it quiet going to help that? You have one of them via the message. Out that person and isolate their vote and we break the entire alliance. Learning who is in it is immaterial since we do not need that information to break it.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:19 am

Man... is everyone afraid to talk or what?

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:30 am

Seems like it.

My "view" on thing is the following :

We lynched LL and we were wrong, he beleived Rshetts2 was evil.
In memory of his country, I beleive we should lynch rshetts2.

Who's in ?

P.S. I'd like everyone opinion on the "reveal the alliance member" thingy, not only Remus

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:01 am

It depends on what is in the message. If it is useful for the group, then reveal it.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:27 am

msteelers wrote:It depends on what is in the message. If it is useful for the group, then reveal it.

I'll say that Remus shouldn't be voting today.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:11 pm

I don't have a good read on the rogue states.

With little to go on, my three suspects, at the moment:

1. Remus West. His continued declarations of suspecting anyone who wants to break up a secret alliance seems like he's making up a reason to start throwing votes on anyone (a position a rogue state would like to establish). We all konw the value of forming a secret alliance and any of us (good and bad) will be trying to win in that manner, if possible. However, of course, anyone not in a secret alliance will also be doing everything they can to break up an alliance. Remus knows this, he even posted as much when telling Grund not to vote. So, it just seems like a fabricated way for him to vote out a good nation at his whim.

2. rshetts2. As Vorret says, Lagom suspected him, even while he was in an alliance with him. Maybe Lagom was on to something.

3. Vorret. Even though he later confirmed with msteelers that he did intercept Grund's transmission, it seemed strange that he was complicit in Lagom's lie.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:15 pm

I didn't pay attention to what LL typed up that's why I acknowledged it, most of it was true and I didn't look close enough and it made me look bad.

I agree with you on Remus as well, I think either Rshetts2 or Remus would be good target.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:40 pm

Qantaga wrote:1. Remus West. His continued declarations of suspecting anyone who wants to break up a secret alliance seems like he's making up a reason to start throwing votes on anyone (a position a rogue state would like to establish). We all konw the value of forming a secret alliance and any of us (good and bad) will be trying to win in that manner, if possible. However, of course, anyone not in a secret alliance will also be doing everything they can to break up an alliance. Remus knows this, he even posted as much when telling Grund not to vote. So, it just seems like a fabricated way for him to vote out a good nation at his whim.

Thats a very interesting position given that I did not vote yesterday. How not voting equates to my voting out a good nation at whim is beyond me.

2. rshetts2. As Vorret says, Lagom suspected him, even while he was in an alliance with him. Maybe Lagom was on to something.

Maybe he was but Lagom had no more information on rshetts2 than we do so following his lead seems more like possibly voting out a good nation at whim. Lets evaluate him on his actions today and yesterday rather than on one player's shot in the mostly dark (remember, Lagom was not a Super Spy having nation - Grund was).

3. Vorret. Even though he later confirmed with msteelers that he did intercept Grund's transmission, it seemed strange that he was complicit in Lagom's lie.

I agree that this is odd.

Personally I think Vorret and Qantaga are our Rogue nations and would vote for either one. If you are looking to keep me from voting today I'm good with that but I will let you know now that if either one of them make it to the edge I will be placing the final vote on them. I also reserve the right to change that thinking when others start talking but right now it feels like the two rogue nations acting in concert. I will let you know before casting a vote if my thinking changes though. I will also leave time to comment between sharing my change of opinion and any vote I might cast.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:01 pm

I disagree that the rogue nations would be acting in concert. They have no need to sustain a secret alliance with themselves, can certainyl make hay by attempting to join one with the good nations, and certainly would not benefit from tying their votes together and risk exposure by marching in lockstep.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:08 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:I disagree that the rogue nations would be acting in concert. They have no need to sustain a secret alliance with themselves, can certainyl make hay by attempting to join one with the good nations, and certainly would not benefit from tying their votes together and risk exposure by marching in lockstep.

What kind of slipshod military are they running? The shoes and socks don't even match.

Well, we voted off Lagom for his lie. Why not try the same with Vorret for the same reason? Maybe we just got the wrong one last time. In other words, I have no idea on possible Rogue Nation identities.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:14 pm

theohall wrote:What kind of slipshod military are they running? The shoes and socks don't even match.

That was the responsibility of #3.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:16 pm

Remus West wrote:Thats a very interesting position given that I did not vote yesterday. How not voting equates to my voting out a good nation at whim is beyond me.

Only because non-voting allowed you to keep your alliance with Semaj intact. And, of course, not voting on a day when Lagom had been caught in a lie and most nations already seemed inclined to vote on him, is no indication of guilt or innocence. As I mentioned, it seems that you're spreading a very wide net to justify voting on anyone you want in the future, because everyone has already expressed interest in breaking up alliances that don't include them.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:17 pm

theohall wrote: Well, we voted off Lagom for his lie. Why not try the same with Vorret for the same reason? Maybe we just got the wrong one last time. In other words, I have no idea on possible Rogue Nation identities.

Yeah and that worked out so well!

But still, it's kinda funny that you and Remus are trying to vote me out since you're both trying to form an Alliance....

Just sayin

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:27 pm

Vorret wrote:
theohall wrote: Well, we voted off Lagom for his lie. Why not try the same with Vorret for the same reason? Maybe we just got the wrong one last time. In other words, I have no idea on possible Rogue Nation identities.
Yeah and that worked out so well!

But still, it's kinda funny that you and Remus are trying to vote me out since you're both trying to form an Alliance....

Just sayin

Don't lump my thinking in with his. I actually do not think Theohall is rogue. Misguided usually but not rogue. Your failure to call Lagom out on the misquote was weird but I wouldn't lynch you for it alone. You jumping right in to back up the same two players Qantaga pointed out is what really jumps out at me. Honestly, lynching you for your actions (or rather your lack of action) yesterday makes a ton more sense than lynching rshetts2 for nothing aside from being the object of the lie. How can you argue against Theohall's broken logic while embracing Qantaga's?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:29 pm

Qantaga wrote:
Remus West wrote:Thats a very interesting position given that I did not vote yesterday. How not voting equates to my voting out a good nation at whim is beyond me.

Only because non-voting allowed you to keep your alliance with Semaj intact. And, of course, not voting on a day when Lagom had been caught in a lie and most nations already seemed inclined to vote on him, is no indication of guilt or innocence. As I mentioned, it seems that you're spreading a very wide net to justify voting on anyone you want in the future, because everyone has already expressed interest in breaking up alliances that don't include them.

I have an alliance with Semaj? Sweet. Thats one step closer to victory.

Seriously though, I did not vote yesterday because Lagom felt very much like normal unevil Lagom to me. I figured Grund was just trying to break some eggs with that vote. I did not and do not see how a rogue nation could possibly have anything to gain by making the play Lagom did. I do see how they would have had something to benefit by embracing Grund's reaction to it.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:57 pm

Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:
theohall wrote: Well, we voted off Lagom for his lie. Why not try the same with Vorret for the same reason? Maybe we just got the wrong one last time. In other words, I have no idea on possible Rogue Nation identities.
Yeah and that worked out so well!

But still, it's kinda funny that you and Remus are trying to vote me out since you're both trying to form an Alliance....

Just sayin

Don't lump my thinking in with his. I actually do not think Theohall is rogue. Misguided usually but not rogue. Your failure to call Lagom out on the misquote was weird but I wouldn't lynch you for it alone. You jumping right in to back up the same two players Qantaga pointed out is what really jumps out at me. Honestly, lynching you for your actions (or rather your lack of action) yesterday makes a ton more sense than lynching rshetts2 for nothing aside from being the object of the lie. How can you argue against Theohall's broken logic while embracing Qantaga's?

I hope you don't think he's rogue, otherwise trying to form an Alliance with him would be rather ill advised.

I pointed Rshetts2 based on what LL said, who, we made a mistake of lynching (ie: I wanted to lynch grun first, which would have been a worse mistake!).

He seems like a guy who "knows" stuff so I guess trusting his gut feeling isn't a terrible idea... if it wasn't for his lie he would still be in the game and maybe Rshetts2 would be out right now.

Maybe I am suspicious, but come on, I'm Canadian!

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:02 pm

Vorret wrote: Maybe I am suspicious, but come on, I'm Canadian!

That's enough for me.

Vorret

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:03 pm

j/k

withdraw Vorret

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:40 pm

Vorret wrote:I hope you don't think he's rogue, otherwise trying to form an Alliance with him would be rather ill advised.

Why? Forming an alliance with a Rogue nation would make me less likely to get blown up at night and would not interfer with either of us winning. Not voting for a known Rogue or being unwilling to vote for a highly suspected Rogue would be ill advised since that would be closing off a path to victory but allying with them is not really a mistake imo.

I pointed Rshetts2 based on what LL said, who, we made a mistake of lynching (ie: I wanted to lynch grun first, which would have been a worse mistake!).

He seems like a guy who "knows" stuff so I guess trusting his gut feeling isn't a terrible idea... if it wasn't for his lie he would still be in the game and maybe Rshetts2 would be out right now.

You and I will just have to disagree with following Lagom. He stated outright that the only reason he used rshetts2's name was to create distance between them since they were allied. Only after that did he also express some doubt as to rshetts2's side (good/rogue).

Maybe I am suspicious, but come on, I'm Canadian!

If we nuke you at least you will be warm.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:53 pm

So are we deliberately ignoring the suicidal superspy portion of that writeup? Seems to me we should be looking at grunds daytime posts.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:09 pm

Vorret wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:
theohall wrote: Well, we voted off Lagom for his lie. Why not try the same with Vorret for the same reason? Maybe we just got the wrong one last time. In other words, I have no idea on possible Rogue Nation identities.
Yeah and that worked out so well!

But still, it's kinda funny that you and Remus are trying to vote me out since you're both trying to form an Alliance....

Just sayin

Don't lump my thinking in with his. I actually do not think Theohall is rogue. Misguided usually but not rogue. Your failure to call Lagom out on the misquote was weird but I wouldn't lynch you for it alone. You jumping right in to back up the same two players Qantaga pointed out is what really jumps out at me. Honestly, lynching you for your actions (or rather your lack of action) yesterday makes a ton more sense than lynching rshetts2 for nothing aside from being the object of the lie. How can you argue against Theohall's broken logic while embracing Qantaga's?
I hope you don't think he's rogue, otherwise trying to form an Alliance with him would be rather ill advised.

I pointed Rshetts2 based on what LL said, who, we made a mistake of lynching (ie: I wanted to lynch grun first, which would have been a worse mistake!).

He seems like a guy who "knows" stuff so I guess trusting his gut feeling isn't a terrible idea... if it wasn't for his lie he would still be in the game and maybe Rshetts2 would be out right now.

Maybe I am suspicious, but come on, I'm Canadian!

Jeez! Lets see now, I join an alliance with LL who then uses me in a deception. I decide to wait and see what his game is and he uses that to throw me under the bus. I then come out to defend myself and Im evil?! LL got caught up in some game, got busted in a lie and because I was confused as to his game he decides to get some kind of warped payback by tagging me with his dying breath.... with absolutely nothing to base it on. He may not have been rogue but he sure played like he was. Then we have Vorret who is picking up his standard. This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves. I have no idea what has transpired for sure but I do know that I was used on day one and day two is feeling awful familiar.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:16 pm

So what is it like being a pawn in other folks manipulative games?

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:23 pm

Damn, everyone's picking on me now... what have I done!

At least I'm sparking some discussion, before I spoke up this place was a ghost town.

Alright, let's all calm down and get fact straight instead of shooting accusation left and right, this is what happended on Day one and that's how we lynched one of the good guy.

What do we have to work on?

Here are the FACTS that I have :

- Theo and LL tried to ally with Grund who refused (I intercepted the message)
- Theo and Remus are forming an alliance (Theo accepted, I intercepted the message)
- I'm Canadian and yes, it's cold.

What FACTS do you have? Who did you monitor and what happended?

Edit:
I'd also like to add, that I said (at first) that people forming alliance should be considered "good" ... I still like my theory so if we go back to that we can scratch off :

- RW
- Theo
- Grung
- LL
- Unagi
- rshetts2
- Chaosraven (unconfirmed)

Possible "bad" :
- Vorret
- Isgrimnur
- msteelers
- Semaj
- Qantaga

Is the list right?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:33 pm

rshetts2 wrote:This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves.

At least that tells us you were the one who sent the envoy to LL. The rest makes absolutely no sense. Even if you ignore the claim by both LL and Grund that LL's envoy went to Grundbegriff.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:43 pm

Remus West wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves.
At least that tells us you were the one who sent the envoy to LL. The rest makes absolutely no sense. Even if you ignore the claim by both LL and Grund that LL's envoy went to Grundbegriff.

I'm going to be completly honest here, every post confuses me more and more and I beleive unless we get extremely lucky, we're all going to get destroyed by the BAD nation.

We need more info people, come on!

zomg ninja edit

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:46 pm

Feel free to move me off of Possible Bad, as my Secret Allies have been blown up. Now, grund had my 'code', so I need to go see if he placed a 'bad guy' or 'not a bad guy' clue for his scan.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:11 pm

Vorret wrote:
Remus West wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves.
At least that tells us you were the one who sent the envoy to LL. The rest makes absolutely no sense. Even if you ignore the claim by both LL and Grund that LL's envoy went to Grundbegriff.
I'm going to be completly honest here, every post confuses me more and more and I beleive unless we get extremely lucky, we're all going to get destroyed by the BAD nation.

We need more info people, come on!

zomg ninja edit

Singular?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:23 pm

Well unfortunately his clue was a Not Bad Guy.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:46 pm

Remus West wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves.
At least that tells us you were the one who sent the envoy to LL. The rest makes absolutely no sense. Even if you ignore the claim by both LL and Grund that LL's envoy went to Grundbegriff.

well I quess its possible to ally with a rogue isnt it? So if You ignore LL and Grunds claims, how does it not make sense? Im not saying its likely Im just thinking of possible scenarios. Ive seen some pretty conflicting actions and info so far and I really dont know what to believe. On the other hand Im pretty new at these things so I can guarantee that Im going to say plenty that doesnt make sense. Yeah, I do that in real life too and yet no strait jacket, go figure.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:05 pm

I monitored Semaj and got nothing....

So.... take that for whatever it is worth.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:08 pm

I monitored Isgrimnur and got nothing, too.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:55 pm

Qantaga wrote:I monitored Isgrimnur and got nothing, too.

confirmed.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:59 pm

hm hm... so iggy and semaj

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:22 pm

Vorret wrote:hm hm... so iggy and semaj

Or Vorret, Qantaga, msteelers....

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:31 pm

rshetts2 wrote:
Remus West wrote:
rshetts2 wrote:This make me wonder if LL sent his envoy to Vorret. Maybe Vorret is rogue and him and LL decided to work together, using me to cover for themselves.
At least that tells us you were the one who sent the envoy to LL. The rest makes absolutely no sense. Even if you ignore the claim by both LL and Grund that LL's envoy went to Grundbegriff.
well I quess its possible to ally with a rogue isnt it? So if You ignore LL and Grunds claims, how does it not make sense?

You are suggesting that a Rogue nation and an Good nation conspired against you while the good nation was allied with you. Thus LL would be shooting himself in the foot by targeting you (his, in this scenario, other ally) OR as he went to death he decided use you as cover for his corpse? All through a single message delivered via envoy? Doesn't make sense in any way to me.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:39 pm

Vorret wrote:hm hm... so iggy and semaj

If only that were true. Given my alliance with Semaj (thanks for cluing me in Qantaga

) and my alliance with Theohall (thanks, Vorret, I would have missed that) I have enough to control the vote. Victory is mine.

Oops, I sort of need to be involved in one of those alliances for that to be true. Sigh.

More seriously, Vorret, I'm interested to know what makes you think I am forming an alliance with Theohall.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:13 pm

Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:hm hm... so iggy and semaj
If only that were true. Given my alliance with Semaj (thanks for cluing me in Qantaga ) and my alliance with Theohall (thanks, Vorret, I would have missed that) I have enough to control the vote. Victory is mine.

Oops, I sort of need to be involved in one of those alliances for that to be true. Sigh.

More seriously, Vorret, I'm interested to know what makes you think I am forming an alliance with Theohall.

Quite simple.
I've intercepted communication from Theo to you.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:18 pm

Vorret wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Vorret wrote:hm hm... so iggy and semaj
If only that were true. Given my alliance with Semaj (thanks for cluing me in Qantaga ) and my alliance with Theohall (thanks, Vorret, I would have missed that) I have enough to control the vote. Victory is mine.

Oops, I sort of need to be involved in one of those alliances for that to be true. Sigh.

More seriously, Vorret, I'm interested to know what makes you think I am forming an alliance with Theohall.
Quite simple.
I've intercepted communication from Theo to you.

See, that's the problem I have with your claim. Even if I had been on the receiving end of any messages last night you would not know that. You only know what the player you monitor sends - NOT where it is headed - so you would have no way to know a message was headed my way.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:23 pm

got home around 11am EST (you do the math on that travel time)

I have somewhat woken up from the dead, now I go out because its my M-Fing birthday in 48 minutes. I say hi to about half the people in town I need to and if I am lucky I get to stay sober.

If not I'll be somewhat useless to the world (which makes sense since I am still under slept and possibly jet lagged).

Ok lets go in order:
1) If I were going to set someone up, and I am not saying I would: I MIGHT use someone elses name in the message like: "Dear Grund, I think we should form an alliance afterwards how about we kill a few people and continue to spread our world of god."

When in fact I had done an alliance with Bahktosh.

2) Grund only said he didnt form an alliance/refused it. There is no guarentee as to saying he did.

3) Poeple who monitored and have information and are not sharing (This has gone on for 2 days btw, not singling not certain people) are absolutely killing any chance we have of putting together facts in the hope of winning a M-Fing game.

4) I no voted yesterday because I thought not voting cancelled any alliances and wanted to show I was on the up and up, dont rope me in with anyone else thank you.

Remus West wrote: Personally I think Vorret and Qantaga are our Rogue nations and would vote for either one. If you are looking to keep me from voting today I'm good with that but I will let you know now that if either one of them make it to the edge I will be placing the final vote on them. I also reserve the right to change that thinking when others start talking but right now it feels like the two rogue nations acting in concert. I will let you know before casting a vote if my thinking changes though. I will also leave time to comment between sharing my change of opinion and any vote I might cast.

It depresses me greatly to think I might agree with you somewhat. Which means they cant be bad, since the day we agree on anything the world ends. SO YOU ARE WRONG SIR! (disaster averted).

Things I dont see a lot of:
Co-operation (understandable to a degree)
sharing of information (Somewhat less understandable).
Posting/an attempt at furthering the game (not understandable at all)

Seriously, I dont care if you are in an alliance, I dont care what you think you are trying to do. At some point we should consider the possibility the bad guys might actually be the bad guys....