Global Thermonuclear War [WW] - Game Over - Alliance Wins

[theohall]

Woohoo!!!! Yes, rshetts2 and I have been pals since the beginning.

Targets and reasoning:
I asked rshetts2 if we could take out Unagi first, because I can never read him. He agreed.
We took out Grundbegriff second, because it was clear everyone wanted to be on his team.
We then blew up Chaosraven, because his alliance with Remus West was dissolved when he did not get the chance to vote. Had Chaosraven voted, the target would have been anyone, but Chaosraven, rshetts2 or Remus West.

Well played Remus covering my screw up with the envoy. This was fun. Would like to see it played with a larger group, but that would probably be very difficult on the moderator.

Great game, Scoop!

[theohall]

Question: Was I on anyone's radar as being a Rogue Nation? Just wondering.

And an aside for rshetts2 - I feel bad, because I kind of took control of how the bad guys would do stuff. Will be more patient next time.

[Scoop20906]

Thanks for everyone playing in this experimental game.

I like how the alliances worked as an idea but in practice it didn't work as well as I hoped but I do see an opportunity to improve it.

Possible improvements:
1. Envoys: Both countries must send invitations to each other on the same night for an alliance to be struck. This will remove the tedious step of an envoy is sent and the other country must accept it. Basically if you send a secret invitation and the other side does the same on the same night order your temporary alliance is made.

2. Monitor power: in this game if a person sent no message then nothing could be monitored. I want to do away with that rule. Instead, if you are monitoring a specific country you see any secret message they send as well as know if they created an alliance that night but will not know who the other party of the alliance is.

3. More powers: Super Spies (scanning) were okay but boring. I think I would like to add a role where one player knows of how many alliances are currently temporary, permanent, and how large is the largest alliance. Any other powers that would be fun?

4. Voting: I was hoping the voting records would become powerful artifacts used to track down alliances. It didn't seem to work. I have though about that and have some ideas. Block votes - instead of voting to kill someone you can vote to block another players vote. However, two people must block to one vote so the game doesn't become a stalemate. A blocked vote means that person can not match the vote of their alliance partners. Also, players can block non-votes as well in case the alliance tries to not vote to meet their alliance obligations.

5. Rogue Nations: In the next game rogue nations can not win the game if they are part of the same secret alliance. Its too easy for them to win the game that way and I want to increase the chances of them double crossing each other.

Ok, thats my first blush of improvements. Any thoughts?

[Lagom Lite]

I was right?

Sucks that I could have been a winner too if I hadn't faux-attacked rhsetts2 so hard.

[Scoop20906]

I was right?

Sucks that I could have been a winner too if I hadn't faux-attacked rhsetts2 so hard.

What was your plan with that anyway?

[Vorret]

I was right?

Sucks that I could have been a winner too if I hadn't faux-attacked rhsetts2 so hard.

Yeah, that was kinda dumb, and in the process it killed me as well!
lol

[Lagom Lite]

I was right?

Sucks that I could have been a winner too if I hadn't faux-attacked rhsetts2 so hard.

What was your plan with that anyway?

Exactly like I said, I was trying to put some distance between myself and rhsetts2 so it wouldn't appear suspicious when we voted for the same guy.

The whole initial lie/name-switch was a regular Lagom-prod that completely backfired. I think Grund blew a fuse or something, I started to panic and then everyone incl. my alliance partner ganked me.

[theohall]

Unagi... this is the order I sent on turn one.

Destroy Mayor Unagi and is mind-befogging control devices.

[Remus West]

Question: Was I on anyone's radar as being a Rogue Nation? Just wondering.

Yes, but I didn't care as I knew if I was right I was safe if I followed you around.

[theohall]

LL, rshetts2 and I discussed privately what the heck to do. The problem was the way Grundbegriff went after you. Originally, we intended to keep rshetts2 off the vote train, but the reasoning behind that became moot when it was clear you were going to be eliminated anyway.

Grundbegriff's aggressive stance was another of the reasons we decided to remove Italy from the game, because too many folks were following his lead. Take away the big leader and it makes it lots easier for a bad guy to stay alive.

If Qantaga had gotten a chance to vote today, he would have been on the winning team, as well. The vote went too fast for him.

[msteelers]

That was fun. I received an alliance request from Remus the last night, while also monitoring theohall. Remus told me that theohall was in his alliance already, and theohall told someone that remus and rshetts2 were in is alliance as well. Theohall also pointed out that there were potentially 5 people in the alliance, with only 4 open spots. So when I logged into the thread and saw that all of them had voted for Isgrimnur, my other partner, I panicked. I started running through a bunch of what-if scenarios, but quickly came to the decision to drop the deciding vote on Isgrimnur. If I hadn't monitored theohall and felt confident that we would win a secret alliance victory, I don't know what I would have done. I felt bad about stabbing Isgrimnur in the back... but I saw a way to protect the good people of India, and took it.

Also, I intercepted a second message from theohall which simply said, "We shall rule the world!"

[Remus West]

So who did the SuperSpys scan each night? I find it funny that the two of them hooked up in an alliance on the first night.

[theohall]

That was fun. I received an alliance request from Remus the last night, while also monitoring theohall. Remus told me that theohall was in his alliance already, and theohall told someone that remus and rshetts2 were in is alliance as well. Theohall also pointed out that there were potentially 5 people in the alliance, with only 4 open spots. So when I logged into the thread and saw that all of them had voted for Isgrimnur, my other partner, I panicked. I started running through a bunch of what-if scenarios, but quickly came to the decision to drop the deciding vote on Isgrimnur. If I hadn't monitored theohall and felt confident that we would win a secret alliance victory, I don't know what I would have done. I felt bad about stabbing Isgrimnur in the back... but I saw a way to protect the good people of India, and took it.

Also, I intercepted a second message from theohall which simply said, "We shall rule the world!"

Had you waited and Qantaga voted, you would have been a loser. Good choice joining the winning team!

The last message was me "accepting" rshetts2's envoy. Which is why Scoop believes the rules should be changed so Rogue Nations cannot win as members of a Secret Alliance together. It's too easy to communicate privately at the key time needed to add them to the Alliance.

[Remus West]

Making Rogues anable to win that way would also make it so that normals had trust issues with their allies AND greater reasons to hunt the Rogues. As I said, I figured Theohall likely Rogue but didn't care because his being one would keep me safe. If he couldn't help me win then that attitude would need to change.

[msteelers]

The last message was me "accepting" rshetts2's envoy. Which is why Scoop believes the rules should be changed so Rogue Nations cannot win as members of a Secret Alliance together. It's too easy to communicate privately at the key time needed to add them to the Alliance.

Maybe just take away the private forum, and give rogue nations the option to either send a message to each other OR send an envoy to another nation. That could also beef up the monitoring skill, because the rogue nations would always have to be wary of someone monitoring them.

[theohall]

Making Rogues anable to win that way would also make it so that normals had trust issues with their allies AND greater reasons to hunt the Rogues. As I said, I figured Theohall likely Rogue but didn't care because his being one would keep me safe. If he couldn't help me win then that attitude would need to change.

Before Chaosraven did not vote, you were considered a likely night target, just so we could keep screwing with people. But, the alliance thing was too nice to pass up once it was clear we could win.

[Remus West]

Making Rogues anable to win that way would also make it so that normals had trust issues with their allies AND greater reasons to hunt the Rogues. As I said, I figured Theohall likely Rogue but didn't care because his being one would keep me safe. If he couldn't help me win then that attitude would need to change.

Before Chaosraven did not vote, you were considered a likely night target, just so we could keep screwing with people. But, the alliance thing was too nice to pass up once it was clear we could win.

Thanks for not blowing me up.

[Unagi]

So who did the SuperSpys scan each night? I find it funny that the two of them hooked up in an alliance on the first night.

?
Chaos and I hooked up on the first night.
Grund and Q hooked up on the first night.

Grund and Chaos hooked up on the second night.

Unagi... this is the order I sent on turn one.

Destroy Mayor Unagi and is mind-befogging control devices.

Good game, everyone.... I actually have no idea how good it was, but I bet it was. Oh wait, Remus won?
This game has flaws.

[stessier]

Good game, everyone.... I actually have no idea how good it was, but I bet it was. Oh wait, Remus won?
This game has flaws.

[rshetts2]

I was right?

Sucks that I could have been a winner too if I hadn't faux-attacked rhsetts2 so hard.

What was your plan with that anyway?

Exactly like I said, I was trying to put some distance between myself and rhsetts2 so it wouldn't appear suspicious when we voted for the same guy.

The whole initial lie/name-switch was a regular Lagom-prod that completely backfired. I think Grund blew a fuse or something, I started to panic and then everyone incl. my alliance partner ganked me.

I had a lot of fun playing a rogue. For some reason Nuking someone is far more satisfying than a simple lynch. I did let Theo do most of the driving though as I figured he knew people play styles far better than I did.
Sorry LL but when the uproar started on you, I saw a prime opportunity to play the injured innocent and at the same time help take out a serious player. It kind of fell into my lap and I discussed it with Theo and decided it was too good to pass up. As they said in one of my favorite old computer games dungeon keeper... Evil is good!
I do agree that rogue communication is definitely advantageous when setting up an alliance win. Thats probably something that needs to be tweaked. Fun game overall though, Nice Job, Scoop!

[Qantaga]

If Qantaga had gotten a chance to vote today, he would have been on the winning team, as well. The vote went too fast for him.

Yeah, it was a bad day for me to be working out of town.

Congrats to the winners!

[Semaj]

no one listens to me... o no
lol

[Remus West]

no one listens to me... o no
lol

Hush, slave nation.

[Lagom Lite]

I had a lot of fun playing a rogue. For some reason Nuking someone is far more satisfying than a simple lynch. I did let Theo do most of the driving though as I figured he knew people play styles far better than I did.
Sorry LL but when the uproar started on you, I saw a prime opportunity to play the injured innocent and at the same time help take out a serious player. It kind of fell into my lap and I discussed it with Theo and decided it was too good to pass up. As they said in one of my favorite old computer games dungeon keeper... Evil is good!

Don't get me wrong, it was a sneaky play by you! Kudos, and well done!

[Chaosraven]

I sent envoy to Unagi, grund sent to me first night. I scanned Lagom Lite. Which is why I was 'unsure' of the vote on him, but my ally was gungho. Unagi was dead, so grund was all I had. Then I scanned Semaj while Grund got killed, and sent envoy to Remus, nobody sent me one. Grunds code indicated Qantaga was scanned and good guy, but I told everyone Semaj was his scan. Finally I scanned Remus and got killed myself trying to join up with Semaj.

[Semaj]

Yeah I laughed when you sent me the envoy... I pretty much expected you to die

[Grundbegriff]

A kudos to the victors!

On the first night, I recruited Chaosraven, SuperScanned Qantaga, and forgot to monitor.
On the second night, I recruited Qantaga, SuperScanned Remus West, and monitored theohall.

In each case, I was scanning someone I thought might be rogue, with the intent of forming an alliance if the person proved to be good. My thought was that joining an alliance with a known evildoer brought too great a risk of betrayal since a hidden agenda outside my control would be unfolding. However, Remus showed that hooking up with a rogue, though risky, can pan out.

I don't know how the game should be improved, because I wasn't in it for long and didn't follow it in the interim.

[rshetts2]

Yeah the thing about an alliance with a rogue state is it ends up being a 2 for 1 deal.