[WW] Lost (lite) -GT Game -Starting Soon at GT -All Invited

This is the place for self-contained forum games

Moderator: Zaxxon

Post Reply
User avatar
Qantaga
Posts: 3566
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

[WW] Lost (lite) -GT Game -Starting Soon at GT -All Invited

Post by Qantaga »

I've been thinking about a new Werewolf game for the folks over at GT.

I was inspired by Grund's Lost game here. I'm hoping that he will be inclined to start a new game of his Lost in the near future. I'd camp out to get in line for that one. :)

Now, I have no desire whatsoever to try to emulate Grund's amazingly complex Lost game. I can't imagine how badly I would mangle things like island movement, much less things like Past/Present, blowing up planes, and unstopping magical power sources.

However, looking at Grund's game and having just finished ravenvii's 3-faction game at GT, I'd like to try something that draws from both of those games.

This is all drawn completely out of thin air and I'm sure I'm missing quite a few key elements. That's why I'm posting here to try to get some advice and help from the experts here to make sure I'm constructing a fun game.

Here is what I'm thinking:

I'm imagining an 18 player game (of course, the numbers can always adjust).

3 Factions and 3 "Independents" - (5) Oceanic 815 Survivors, (5) Widmore Scientists, (5) Dharmas, (1) Smoke Monster/MiB, (1) Desmond, (1) Eko.

Every player would get a role (Jack, Widmore, Ben, Kate, Sawyer, Faraday, etc.)

There would be (1) Protector for each of the three groups (815, Scientists, Others).

At the start of the game, each player would only know their own role. Each night every player (except Smokey and Desmond) will be able to scan/examine/converse with one other player of their choice. The results of the scan will be only "kindred spirit"/"non-kindred spirit." (Except in Eko's case, explained below).

For example, an 815 survivor scans another 815 survivor, they will be told so. If they scan a Scientist, Dharma, Smokey, Desmond, or Eko, they will be only told "non-kindred spirit" or "not on your team."

*Each night, Smokey gets a kill.

Smokey cannot kill Desmond or anyone protected that night by a Protector.

Eko can use his staff each night. He is the only player who can detect Smokey (all other players are just told "non-kindred spirit"). If Eko reveals Smokey in the thread, he will immediately die at Smokey's hands, but he will have pointed the other players to Smokey's existence. (Obviously, he will only die if he names the true Smokey).

The three Protectors can all protect one target (they can self protect, but cannot protect the same target two nights in a row). This may lead to double/triple protection, but still a maximum of three players can be protected per night. Of course, the trick is that a Protector could be protecting a member of another team, especially early in the game when there is very little information from scans. Therefore, a Protector could even choose not to protect anyone on a given night. Of course, a Protector can be lynched.

*Each day, the islanders vote to lynch someone.

The goal is that you're trying to find your companions and survive by wiping out all the other factions and the "Independents".

Desmond can participate in all lynch votes and Desmond can be lynched. While he cannot be killed by Smokey, it is still in his best interests to remain concealed because the other three teams will be trying to eliminate him by lynch to satisfy their victory conditions. Plus, if Smokey knows who he is, Smokey would not try to kill him anymore. (Smokey would not know for certain if he had tried to kill Desmond or if he had been blocked by one of the Protectors).

As to the gameplay, there will be NO PMs allowed. You may learn the identity of your teammates, but you still may not PM them. You must decide what (when/if) you want to say in the game thread to find your teammates and the risk/reward of information in an open "camp". (You may know them, but do they know you? How much do you want to reveal to find them?). I'm afraid an early lucky scan or two by one team could tilt the power too far if PMs were allowed, so I think it might be fun to keep all communication (subtle and overt) in the game thread.

Victory conditions:

- One of the teams (815, Widmore, Dharma) wins by being the last team standing. Everyone else, Smokey, Desmond, Eko included, must be lynched (or killed off by Smokey, of course).

- In the event of two remaining players, if it is one {815/Widmore/Dharma} and one special {Smokey, Desmond, Eko}, the special will win. If it is two from separate factions, those two factions tie. If it is two specials, the two specials tie.

- Smokey can win the game, but he would have to survive lynching all the way until he is able to eliminate all but one other player. I know this is very unlikely, but Smokey's role is really just to wreak as much havoc as possible before he is lynched.

- Desmond could also win the game, but he would have to survive Smokey's lynching and eliminate all but one other player. Also unlikely, but Desmond's role is more to direct island events with as much intuition as he can muster, while being completely immune from Smokey's nightly kills.

- Eko could win the game, but he would have to survive until all but one other player is left. This would mean that Smokey was lynched without the need of Eko's special knowledge. Eko's role is more of that of island shaman with the power to reveal Smokey, with the understanding that all on the island would immortalize him for his sacrifice.

In other words, Smokey, Desmond, and Eko are granted special powers to influence events without formally being on one of the three teams. These "Independents" are not really designed to be on a "winning" team but, hopefully, their special abilities would make them worthwhile to play even without an equal chance of a "win."

There is a possibility of granting some type of conversion ability to Smokey, Jack, Widmore, Ben, and Desmond, but I'll probably stay away from conversions the first time I run it.

Some questions:

1. Are Desmond, and Eko interesting enough to play as Independents?
2. Will the game sustain momentum (just on daily lynches, with no night kill) if Smokey is killed early? Should I give Smokey the ability to jump to another player (ala Flocke) if Smokey is lynched? (I'd have to revamp Eko if Smokey can jump to another player).
3. Is it wise to disallow PMs?
4. Is there enough incentive here to promote game discussion in the game thread, or do you think it would devolve into a game where no one wants to say anything and it's just a series of votes?

This is obviously just a rambling set of ideas and and still very convuluted with need of a massive amount of tweaking. It is just something that is percolating in the back of my mind and I wanted to float it out to see if I'm on the right track. I'm sure there are probably things here that would never work in a game environment, so any advice would be great. If you have any suggestions or see anything that is overpowered or just doesn't fit a game like this, I would welcome your feedback.

If you think it is fatally flawed and I should go back to the drawing board, please let me know that, too.

I'll probably try to get this started up in the next week or two over at GT. Anyone here is welcome to stop over, if you're interested in playing, too.
Last edited by Qantaga on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumber'd here while these visions did appear
User avatar
theohall
Posts: 11697
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:01 am
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by theohall »

Q, I have no idea why this thread has zero replies, and having never moderated my comments have severe limits. I will give this a closer look.
User avatar
Remus West
Posts: 33592
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 5:39 pm
Location: Not in Westland

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by Remus West »

As for question 1, I personally like being one of the "powerless" roles best myself and simply figuring things out based off of thread information. Thus I take the attitude that the player makes the role. Only suggestion I would have is to make sure that each role has the ability to influence their own side's victory conditions. If they need specific people to die or to even out numbers some how then be sure you give them a mechanism for doing doing that. Basic werewolf the lynch is the villagers mechanism for killing the wolves while the night kill is the wolves' for evening the numbers. If you upset that balance you are going to create a powerless player which is no fun.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
User avatar
Unagi
Posts: 26376
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by Unagi »

Just my 2 cents on the general idea...

I'd like to think that I'd be OK playing a role that is only playing 'for flavor', a role that is not playing to win (or lose)... But I wonder really how that would pan out.
I think it may be a problem. In effect, you are asking some players to help host the game, or rather - be a part of it, but not a contender.

Additionally, I certainly agree with Remus, all players need to have some mechanism to effect their (or their team's) chance of winning - or the game will quickly turn stale.
User avatar
Qantaga
Posts: 3566
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by Qantaga »

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.

Good feedback all. I'll put some thought into it and be back with more questions in the next day or two.
If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumber'd here while these visions did appear
User avatar
stessier
Posts: 29816
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 12:30 pm
Location: SC

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by stessier »

Qantaga wrote:
Some questions:

1. Are Desmond, and Eko interesting enough to play as Independents?
2. Will the game sustain momentum (just on daily lynches, with no night kill) if Smokey is killed early? Should I give Smokey the ability to jump to another player (ala Flocke) if Smokey is lynched? (I'd have to revamp Eko if Smokey can jump to another player).
3. Is it wise to disallow PMs?
4. Is there enough incentive here to promote game discussion in the game thread, or do you think it would devolve into a game where no one wants to say anything and it's just a series of votes?

My thoughts:

1. I don't think so. I think there should be another team - either join Desmond & Eko, or perhaps drop Eko and put Desmond and Smokey on a team. This team, as the others, can't communicate. But either grouping sets up interesting strategies for the team to identify itself and win.

2. I think the game would stall without a night kill. There must always be a threat of death, otherwise the teams can come out and declare themselves. Stalemate would result as people would refuse to vote against their interests. At least I could see it going that way. :)

3. YES! Although PM's can be fun too if everyone gets the power. Just ends up that a lot of stuff happens behind the scenes rather than in the thread.

4. If people are always scanning, I say there will be talking. I wonder is Smokey/Desmond/Eko can be flushed out because they don't have scans. Not a bad thing, just a thought.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
Global Steam Wishmaslist Tracking
Running____2014: 1300.55 miles____2015: 2036.13 miles____2016: 1012.75 miles____2017: 1105.82 miles____2018: 1318.91 miles__2019: 2000.00 miles
User avatar
Qantaga
Posts: 3566
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by Qantaga »

Hey thanks Stess!

How about this?

4 factions - add Team Evil. I would then give them each a nightly scan, too.

I would have to rethink the characters to line up better with Team Evil.

Perhaps Flocke as the second member. Smoky (MiB) would still be the one performing the night kills. Smoky and Flocke would not know each other until scanned, but Flocke would have the power I previously gave Desmond. He can't be killed by Smoky. That might give a hint to Smoky if he failed in his attempt, but with three protectors from the other factions, Smoky couldn't be certain if it was Locke or another protected player without using a scan.

Then, maybe the other Team Evil member would be Ben. I wouldn't give him the power I had previously given to Eko (being able to identify Smoky). Of course, his scan would reveal Smoky and Flocke since they're teammates. I'm thinking that I'll make Ben immune to Smoky's night kill, too, like Flocke.

If Smoky gets lynched, the nightly kill power goes to Flocke. If Flocke gets killed (or is already dead), the kill power goes to Ben.

If all three are dead, then no more nightly kills. Hopefully, at that point, the game will be far enough along that the remaining lynch votes will have enough momentum for the other factions to be invested enough to try to win by lynch votes.

There's still the possibility of letting the last Team Evil member infect a random (.org) player to keep the night kills going, but I'm afraid that might put too much power in Team Evil's hands.

So, based on the suggestions from all of you:

-4 teams: 815 survivors, Dharma Initiative, Widmore scientists and Team Evil.
-Nightly scans for all.
-Nightly kills for Team Evil, until all three are eliminated.
-Daily lynches.

Any better?

Or any further tweaks?

Remus and Unagi, do you think these changes help give everyone the mechanism to affect the game in their team's favors (lynches and scans for 815, Dharma, and Widmore. Night kills and scans for Team Evil), or should there be more?
If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumber'd here while these visions did appear
User avatar
Qantaga
Posts: 3566
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: [WW] Lost (lite) - Planning for GT Game - Advice Wanted

Post by Qantaga »

I am starting this game up on GT, either this weekend, or early next week. If anyone here would like to come over to GT and join us, we'd love to have you.

Thread is here.
If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended
That you have but slumber'd here while these visions did appear
Post Reply