BSG Boardgame 2: All of this has happened before...

[Grundbegriff]

I choose the second option.

[stessier]

You have chosen....poorly.

[Remus West]

You have chosen....poorly.

I'm sorry. It seems you vocal processors are on the fritz. Must be due to Cavil's "welcoming party". You have misused the word "poorly".

[Zurai]

You have chosen....poorly.

I'm sorry. It seems you vocal processors are on the fritz. Must be due to Cavil's "welcoming party". You have misused the word "poorly".

Not from his (its?) perspective. That was indeed a poor choice, for the Cylons.

By the way, note that Treachery cards only go up to a maximum of Strength 3, and there are only 6 of that strength total. Also, only 17 of the 26 (~65%) Treachery cards have "Reckless" riders, and two of the same rider can't go off on the same skill check. The breakdown by Strength is 12 S1 (~46%), 8 S2 (~30%), and the previously mentioned 6 S3 (~23%).

The average Strength of a truly random Treachery card drawn is 1.7; the rough average of two random Treachery cards is thus ~3.4. The absolute maximum negative penalty we can get from a double Treachery destiny draw is 6 (compared to 10 for any other skills).

For reference, Politics has 9 S1 (~34%), 7 S2 (~27%), 5 S3 (~19%), 3 S4 (~11%), and 2 S5 cards (~7%). The average strength of a single random Politics card is 2.3, and the average of two is thus roughly 4.6. I'm not going to do the math for every skill, but I think it's fairly safe to assume that the others are similarly weighted, if not identical.

That means that by temporarily stacking the destiny deck with pure Treachery cards, we've actually decreased the absolute value of the average total destiny deck contribution. The actual net change from a truly random contribution varies based on the number of skills that are positive for a given skill check, but at worst it should be only a little worse than normal, and IIRC there are actually a few Crises that have Treachery as a positive contributor.

On the other hand, I believe that we could have safely dumped our Treachery cards by moving between ships.

[Remus West]

On the other hand, I believe that we could have safely dumped our Treachery cards by moving between ships.

Every time we discard a treachery it allows them the chance to play Sabotage which gives them a shot at damaging either the Engine Room or FTL. Both of which we need for the quick victory.

[Grundbegriff]

Am I correct in thinking that the Admiral has no more choices to make? We're just pushing for jump icons/FTL now?

[El Guapo]

Am I correct in thinking that the Admiral has no more choices to make? We're just pushing for jump icons/FTL now?

No more destination choices, yes. Crises could still come up that say "admiral chooses" of course. There's also still one more nuke token.

But the most important admiral decision is done with.

[Remus West]

We're just pushing for jump icons/FTL now?

We get to the -3 marker and Jump with the FTL we win (assuming we can spare the 3 population at the time).

[El Guapo]

On the other hand, I believe that we could have safely dumped our Treachery cards by moving between ships.

Every time we discard a treachery it allows them the chance to play Sabotage which gives them a shot at damaging either the Engine Room or FTL. Both of which we need for the quick victory.

Plus each sabotage would bring them closer to one of their victory conditions (damaging Galactica).

[Zurai]

Sorry, I thought I recalled a ruling that discards from moving didn't count for some reason and people on BGG were talking about moving being used to "safely" discard Treachery cards. There's nothing in the errata or official FAQ about it though.

Do note that there are only 4 Sabotage cards, though.

[Turtle]

Turn 28: Baltar
Status:


Hand Sizes and Ongoing Effects:

Spoiler:

Player hand sizes:
1. Cavil: 2
2. Roslin: 7 Quorum: 3
3. Dee: 9
4. Boomer: 7
5. Tigh: 6
6. Apollo: 7
7. Baltar: 8

Ongoing Card effects:
Relentless Pursuit: Keep this card in play until a civilian ship or basestar is destroyed. If this card is in play when the fleet jumps, shuffle it back into the crisis deck.

[El Guapo]

I think the consensus is that Baltar should go to Pegasus and repair the engine room.

I can't really think of any great alternatives - I guess one option would be to XO Boomer so that she can move out of sickbay, but I think it's pretty clear that getting the engines going is more important.

[stessier]

Turtle - Don't forget our Treachery Cards!

Nevermind - thanks!

[Zurai]

I think the consensus is that Baltar should go to Pegasus and repair the engine room.

I can't really think of any great alternatives - I guess one option would be to XO Boomer so that she can move out of sickbay, but I think it's pretty clear that getting the engines going is more important.

Or he could XO me so that I can both get out of sickbay AND repair the Pegasus engine room. As I said before, I have a Repair handy. I previously mentioned using it for more Vipers, but that was when Apollo was still pretending to be human.

[Remus West]

I think the consensus is that Baltar should go to Pegasus and repair the engine room.

I can't really think of any great alternatives - I guess one option would be to XO Boomer so that she can move out of sickbay, but I think it's pretty clear that getting the engines going is more important.

Or he could XO me so that I can both get out of sickbay AND repair the Pegasus engine room. As I said before, I have a Repair handy. I previously mentioned using it for more Vipers, but that was when Apollo was still pretending to be human.

If he is not a Cylon then you most likely are the last one. XOing a Cylon is a very bad idea. So either he is Human and thus "knows" you to be the final Cylon and thus should not XO you OR he is a Cylon and thus will not XO you. Either way, you are not getting XO'd.

[El Guapo]

I think the consensus is that Baltar should go to Pegasus and repair the engine room.

I can't really think of any great alternatives - I guess one option would be to XO Boomer so that she can move out of sickbay, but I think it's pretty clear that getting the engines going is more important.

Or he could XO me so that I can both get out of sickbay AND repair the Pegasus engine room. As I said before, I have a Repair handy. I previously mentioned using it for more Vipers, but that was when Apollo was still pretending to be human.

If he is not a Cylon then you most likely are the last one. XOing a Cylon is a very bad idea. So either he is Human and thus "knows" you to be the final Cylon and thus should not XO you OR he is a Cylon and thus will not XO you. Either way, you are not getting XO'd.

Yup - that's why I did not recommend that one.

[El Guapo]

I should add that there are other possibilities than Baltar or Dee being a cylon - for one, Apollo could have gotten both cylon cards. But those possibilities are remote enough that an XO is not in the cards for the reasons that Remus mentions.

[Scoop20906]

Why wasn't I doing this all along?

[El Guapo]

There's a shocker.

So if Apollo revealed the "sabotage" cylon loyalty card, does that mean that Baltar's must be the "brig someone" loyalty card? Or are there multiple effects? And are there duplicates of each one?

I guess we'll find out anyways.

[Chaosraven]

I don't recall if there's four or five different. Sick bay, sabotage, morale loss... Um.

[stessier]

I wonder if you aren't more valuable on Galactica. Or maybe come home and let Chaos infiltrate?

I just don't know the game well enough to offer any useful advice.

[El Guapo]

If you are revealing, you could just post your loyalty card.

[Scoop20906]

I wonder if you aren't more valuable on Galactica. Or maybe come home and let Chaos infiltrate?

I just don't know the game well enough to offer any useful advice.

I thought and thought about this and my options were really limited. The best I can hope for is to foul up their skill checks from the cylon fleet and get a good Super Crisis Card on my next turn.

[Scoop20906]

If you are revealing, you could just post your loyalty card.

You don't like the anticipation?

[El Guapo]

If you are revealing, you could just post your loyalty card.

You don't like the anticipation?

You're such a tease, Baltar.

[stessier]

I wonder if you aren't more valuable on Galactica. Or maybe come home and let Chaos infiltrate?

I just don't know the game well enough to offer any useful advice.

I thought and thought about this and my options were really limited. The best I can hope for is to foul up their skill checks from the cylon fleet and get a good Super Crisis Card on my next turn.

By staying in the Fleet, though, you could potentially make skill checks reckless. Which could be useful.

[Remus West]

That wasn't a reveal? If he revealed he doesn't have any options on how to proceed. He goes to the resurrection ship...etc.

[Scoop20906]

I've revealed. We are only discussing the strategy. I might have made the wrong decision by revealing.

[stessier]

That wasn't a reveal? If he revealed he doesn't have any options on how to proceed. He goes to the resurrection ship...etc.

From a game standpoint only, would it have been possible for the 3rd Cylon to look at Chaos and I and say - Do you think I should stay or join you?

It's not really a reveal, as anyone could say it. Not sure what the rules say about telling others what you are.

And since he is revealed, Scoop - when did you get the card? I got mine after the Distance 4 deal.

[El Guapo]

That wasn't a reveal? If he revealed he doesn't have any options on how to proceed. He goes to the resurrection ship...etc.

From a game standpoint only, would it have been possible for the 3rd Cylon to look at Chaos and I and say - Do you think I should stay or join you?

It's not really a reveal, as anyone could say it. Not sure what the rules say about telling others what you are.

And since he is revealed, Scoop - when did you get the card? I got mine after the Distance 4 deal.

That's possible yes. The rules say (IIRC) that you can make accusations and claims about humanity and cylonitude. Typically one is claiming to be human, but I suppose nothing's keeping someone from falsely claiming to be a cylon.

But in any event Scoop has indicated fairly clearly that he is taking the reveal action. Though I suppose he should have bolded it, a la Baltar reveals as a cylon.

And just post the frackin' loyalty card already!

[Scoop20906]

That wasn't a reveal? If he revealed he doesn't have any options on how to proceed. He goes to the resurrection ship...etc.

From a game standpoint only, would it have been possible for the 3rd Cylon to look at Chaos and I and say - Do you think I should stay or join you?

It's not really a reveal, as anyone could say it. Not sure what the rules say about telling others what you are.

And since he is revealed, Scoop - when did you get the card? I got mine after the Distance 4 deal.

Yeah, I got my after too. Never really had a chance to sow confusion.

[Scoop20906]

And just post the frackin' loyalty card already!

You'd like that wouldn't you?

[El Guapo]

This is true, but the difference with Baltar is that we have a record with him having an extra loyalty card. He had two at the beginning, and the evidence suggests (as most people here seem to agree) that we did not have a cylon saboteur in the first (pre-sleeper) part of the game. That implies that his extra loyalty card was "not a cylon."

A couple of people have said this but you seem to be the biggest proponent and I have to say I disagree. Have you looked back at those checks? Why would any Cylon have even slightly risked outing themselves when things were so far in our favor? The board was clean almost the whole time and the checks were generally blow outs or straight up Fails with no attempt.

I was thinking about this on my way home, and it's true that this isn't a given. But at the same time, the checks were blow outs *because there was no sabotage*. Of course if no one is sabotaging the skill checks we're generally going to easily pass the checks. This is especially true when the destiny deck is kind, but the cylons don't know in advance that the destiny deck would be kind - on a bunch of those checks if a +3 card happened to be a -5 card instead then the skill check would be much closer and vulnerable to sabotage.

The fact that the board was clear for most of the game so far is irrelevant, as most of the skill checks cost resources if we fail, which is good for the cylons regardless of whether there also happen to be basestars around.

So yes, it's possible that cylons laid low for the entire first half of the game. But that's a lot to write off, so that doesn't strike me as likely, which is why I think we *probably* didn't have any hidden cylons.

Just memorializing the wisdom of Tigh.

[El Guapo]

And just post the frackin' loyalty card already!

You'd like that wouldn't you?

I would indeed! Shows you how heartless cylons are.

Well, where's that Turtle, then? You did PM Turtle, right?

[Turtle]

Loyalty cards are like any other card played, so you show them when you play them.

As his action, Baltar reveals:
You Are a Cylon - Action: Reveal this card. If you are not in the Brig, each human player discards 1 random skill card and draws 1 Treachery card. Then you draw 2 Treachery cards (after discarding down to 3 for revealing).

Roslin discards Strategic Planning 5.
Dee discards Executive Order 1.
Boomer discards Critical Situation 4.
Tigh discards Launch Scout 1.

[Remus West]

Loyalty cards are like any other card played, so you show them when you play them.

As his action, Baltar reveals:
You Are a Cylon - Action: Reveal this card. If you are not in the Brig, each human player discards 1 random skill card and draws 1 Treachery card. Then you draw 2 Treachery cards (after discarding down to 3 for revealing).

Roslin discards Strategic Planning 5.
Dee discards Executive Order 1.
Boomer discards Critical Situation 4.
Tigh discards Launch Scout 1.

Cavil discards hand.

Thanks for doing that Scoop.

[stessier]

Cavil discards hand.

Thanks for doing that Scoop.

Meh - he had just done that on my turn and only had 2 treachery. Scoop's draw made that a wash.

[Scoop20906]

Yeah, maybe if I stuck around I could have caused more damage but I just got me a nice shiny super crisis card that I can't wait to play. If I get chance.

[El Guapo]

That's not so bad. It sucks to lose that 5 and 4 value card, to be sure, but I don't think having 1 treachery card apiece when we know for sure who the cylons are is going to be a huge problem.

[Turtle]

Baltar's crisis phase is skipped due to being a revealed cylon.

Turn 29: Cavil
Status:


Hand Sizes and Ongoing Effects:

Spoiler:

Player hand sizes:
1. Cavil: 2
2. Roslin: 7 Quorum: 3
3. Dee: 9
4. Boomer: 7
5. Tigh: 6
6. Apollo: 7
7. Baltar: 5

Ongoing Card effects:
Relentless Pursuit: Keep this card in play until a civilian ship or basestar is destroyed. If this card is in play when the fleet jumps, shuffle it back into the crisis deck.

Cavil must choose his skill cards for this turn.