Bond II - The Prometheus Dawn - END!

[Unagi]

Maybe we can both learn to listen to each other in own ways next time. (That was the point of my PM post to you that the other can't read).

agreed, and , I actually thought I new what you meant by your imaginary PM.

[Lassr]

On Day One after the weekend of posts between Q and Unagi, I expected Stess to come on and post something about how he wasn't sure if it was Unagi or myself. Instead, Stessier when full bore into me and it simply shocked me. It was the wrong play for a agent and I knew it. I just didn't know how articulate it.

we even commented in the spoiler forum that we thought that was a bad play by stessier as it gave him very little wiggle room and then he went with Unagi and voted Q. In the end it didn't matter as it felt like Unagi had blinders on.

[Lassr]

and Scoop I think you asked earlier if it was our plan to attach RMC to you to make you look evil. It wasn't planned but RMC did it and he commented that maybe it might make Scoop look bad if he is caught.

My jabs at Unagi and my weak responses to his attacks were planned to make it look like I was trying to hide him if I got caught. Not much ever materialized from that effort though.

[Unagi]

On Day One after the weekend of posts between Q and Unagi, I expected Stess to come on and post something about how he wasn't sure if it was Unagi or myself. Instead, Stessier when full bore into me and it simply shocked me. It was the wrong play for a agent and I knew it. I just didn't know how articulate it.

we even commented in the spoiler forum that we thought that was a bad play by stessier as it gave him very little wiggle room and then he went with Unagi and voted Q. In the end it didn't matter as it felt like Unagi had blinders on.

Sadly, I even saw it as a bad move for an evil stessier and thus found it odd that scoop thought it was indeed an evil stessier move.

The iacane powder was everywhere in this end game.

[Scoop20906]

On Day One after the weekend of posts between Q and Unagi, I expected Stess to come on and post something about how he wasn't sure if it was Unagi or myself. Instead, Stessier when full bore into me and it simply shocked me. It was the wrong play for a agent and I knew it. I just didn't know how articulate it.

we even commented in the spoiler forum that we thought that was a bad play by stessier as it gave him very little wiggle room and then he went with Unagi and voted Q. In the end it didn't matter as it felt like Unagi had blinders on.

Sadly, I even saw it as a bad move for an evil stessier and thus found it odd that scoop thought it was indeed an evil stessier move.

The iacane powder was everywhere in this end game.

There are different types of bad moves. I was still working with information that you didn't have which was that I was good and I also was the N-1 evidence to rule out Qantaga so it was simply between your actions and Stessiers and it was simple to see that your actions were more genuine "Unagi" actions while Stessiers weren't as much.

I wasn't 100% sure, though. I was just going with the odds.

[Remus West]

I still want the free lunch.

[Unagi]

I still want the free lunch.

Honestly, I'd love to. (although it looks like Theohall is the one I need to work on)

Heck, I think us local guys should each sponsor an out-of-towner for lunch.

But, for real - anywhere but that buffet.

[stessier]

On Day One after the weekend of posts between Q and Unagi, I expected Stess to come on and post something about how he wasn't sure if it was Unagi or myself. Instead, Stessier when full bore into me and it simply shocked me. It was the wrong play for a agent and I knew it. I just didn't know how articulate it.

we even commented in the spoiler forum that we thought that was a bad play by stessier as it gave him very little wiggle room and then he went with Unagi and voted Q. In the end it didn't matter as it felt like Unagi had blinders on.

Incidentally, I disagree with all of you. Did you even read my wonderful attack? It was flawless. Scoop was 100% grade A wolf, bushy tail not included.

I tried to make a case for Unagi. It was weak and circumstantial in comparison. I even commented to that effect. That's why I went with Scoop. I would have been really interested to see what would have happened had I gone after Unagi or simply waited. That was the most annoying part to me - all the waiting. No one wanted to make any sort of move or opinion. Drove me nuts!!!

But I'm much better now.

[Qantaga]

Unagi, like you, I really don't want to dwell on this. The game is what it is. However, I do want to make one last point on the Chaosraven thing, mainly because it has to do with my personal playstyle as much as this particular game.

At the time, I still thought of you as good, so my listing Chaos, Grund, etc. as who you previously thought evil during the course of the game was not meant as an accusation of you being evil.

It was in direct response to you saying:

When it seems to me like you aren't really at all (actually, I will say - just now finally today, almost out of the entire game - you finally are) looking for a bad guy.

You were saying I was bad because I hadn't tried to identify a wolf.

The truth was that I hadn't tried to identify a wolf *openly in the thread*.

At the time, I wasn't implying that you were bad. I was saying to you, in essence, that even good agents with the best intentions can be wrong about who they think is evil, so why is it an automatic condemnation of me just because I admit that I don't know who is evil?

Of course, in hindsight, I should have just said that instead of...

... my knee jerk reply (even though I tried to say at the time it was meant good-naturedly), which was:

Oh, you mean like you've been looking for a bad guy?

It had nothing to do with me thinking you were evil because you had accused tru1cy or Chaos or Grund or anyone else for whatever reason in the thread (because, at that time, I did not - I was still leaning Scoop). It was my attempt to point out to you that my playstyle is vastly different to yours. It seems to me that you like to speculate out in the open, perhaps even throwing names out to see what sticks. I am the opposite. I am much more prone to turn things over and over and over in my mind before trying to make a decision. So, that whole post was my frustration that you were judging me evil based on a playstyle that is my very nature.

It also seems to me that it's a safe place for a wolf to hide behind a strong conviction (knowing he can flip at any time, like stessier did) of who the wolves are.

I mainly wanted to address this because my ability to play games at OO will be severely limited if I am judged evil because I can't definitively name a wolf candidate.

As a matter of fact, I am going to create a new thread soon to ask about some things I encountered in this game.

Thanks for listening.

[Qantaga]

And, where the heck is Newcastle?

Get in here and take a bow Newcastle!

At least a tip of the cap to your admirers.

[Newcastle]

Thanks for teh kind words Qantaga. Its fun to write these up. The one thing I do regret is that I dont think I killed off Rshetts2 in a great way. I didnt like the lack of a role he played in that segment. So apologies to Rshetts2. Will have to make amends in the future.

I think the bad guys got out of hte gates fast using hte EMP so early gave them a leg up.

The other major turning point was after Chaos protected Remus. Remus had also nailed Lassr with that scan. However, the bad guys were going to target Remus regardless the following night. I was wondering if remus would reveal or not. CR then popped in with his reveal and that forced Remus hand (for the benefit of MI6).

It was fun to host it and watch in the background the different machinations. I do know that its great to receive PM's as a moderator on where peoples though process were. I received quite a few from Remus and i found them interesting.

I do think this rule set slightly, like a smidgen worth, favored team evil. That is because they used the EMP so early, they really put MI6 (or rather Q/Remus) behind by one scan early on. If remus had 1 more scan, i think it really would have changed things around. However his scan target for night 1 was Msteelers...how much of a difference that would make, who knows.

I will definitely do a Bond 3 in the future, since they are fun to host and write up.

Thanks again for playing!

[Unagi]

Unagi, like you, I really don't want to dwell on this.

I try extraordinarily hard to avoid situations like what just went down, but - I really don't let it kill me when and if they do.
Sadly, you will find that I'm all too willing (to a fault) to dissect these kinds of things almost forever. As fun.

At the time, I still thought of you as good, so my listing Chaos, Grund, etc. as who you previously thought evil during the course of the game was not meant as an accusation of you being evil.

Right, but it was meant to mock the choices that I may have made - in that "if ya call that hunting wolves, then I'm glad I didn't..." kind of way.

From that, it seemed like someone that (at that earlier Chaos = evil? stage of the game) had not been 'living it' as a Good Guy, in that you mocked him as a choice, when it seemed likely to me that many thought he could have been the zerker with his kill of Grund. (at least I did, at the time)

You were saying I was bad because I hadn't tried to identify a wolf.

The truth was that I hadn't tried to identify a wolf *openly in the thread*.

Well, one thing... IMO, if you don't do something *openly in the thread*, it's open to quite an enormous amount of speculation. agreed?

At the time, I wasn't implying that you were bad. I was saying to you, in essence, that even good agents with the best intentions can be wrong about who they think is evil, so why is it an automatic condemnation of me just because I admit that I don't know who is evil?

I think we are just sorta talking on different levels maybe. I wasn't expecting you to know who is evil - I expected you to have your opinions more 'at hand' than they appeared to be.

What is interesting is that I basically was indeed picking up on what was indeed the case (absolutely correct me if I am wrong!):
You had not really formulated an opinion on who the wolves were among the remaining players.
You were caught off guard by my accusation and thought that you'd have been cleared by that N-1 vote, and not even really have to prove anything.
Early on (in my accusation), you never had the cynical Villager thought of "whatever, dumb-ass, I'm not a wolf", and just moved on to explain why you thought "X" was the wolf.
You didn't want some 12 hour stretch of 'no posts from you' to add to your frustrations, you wanted to get those explained ahead of time.

My failure was to prescribe it to you being a first time wolf at OO.
The truth was just that you hadn't formulated the opinions, were caught off guard by my attack, thought the N-1 vote would give us all piece of mind on you, and haven't been run up enough by me to have that cynical villager thought of "whatever, dumb-ass, I'm not a wolf".



That's the whole iocane powder part of the game. If there is a moment\mistake\action that someone can manage to define as 'good', someone else may wonder if it was designed to trick others into thinking that.
This game is all about the wolf in sheep's clothing. This is what (I think) theohall was saying about how I was defending stessier, but condemning you for what amounts to the same things. the problem was that I had, myself, come up with the reasons I felt that stessier was good - my brain. You had been the one to try and explain all the reason you were good. I didn't really want to hear all that from you - I wanted to hear who you thought may be a villain and why, and I wanted to see if it sounded like you had actually thought about the things you said you thought about or not. I wanted to consider your alignment by you giving me access to things that you had kept from being exposed openly in the thread.

... my knee jerk reply (even though I tried to say at the time it was meant good-natured)

It's a game of werewolf.
First, please do understand, I never took anything of this bad-natured, and I seriously hope you understand my 'witch hunt' was against Hugo - not Qantaga.
Some of that I also (see, I do get these blinders, where I will indeed start just seeing how something can be spun (and, I swear, It Can!) in the opposite direction), anyhow.... Some of that I also counted against you - like I thought you were trying to keep things cool between you and me (because if you were to win as the wolf, you needed me to be a bit less aggressive)...
But the truth was, you were trying to keep things cool between you and me, because if you were to win as a villager, you needed me to be a bit less aggressive)

It was my attempt to point out to you that my playstyle is vastly different to yours. It seems to me that you like to speculate out in the open

I seriously thought that was sorta the whole game.

perhaps even throwing names out to see what sticks.

I try and minimize that... but I will make my arguments. I also shut-up from time to time and watch. Speculating out in the open doesn't preclude a great amount of private speculation, and some open speculation is actually self-serving (in that one watches for reaction, lack of them, etc...) - plus, and this in clearly the point - this is what creates the public record that we can go back to to see what people were thinking, this creates the material for the game to gain any traction. Open speculation and occasionally throwing a name out there to see what sticks; that is the Hydrogen and Helium of the WW Universe. You can't make any of the heavy elements, like the Mexican Stand Off we just had, without them... I'll take this moment to add that I don't think you normally play it quite the 'silent' way you describe it. As Scoop remarked, - you actually 'Came Back' finally at the end of this game, as the Qantaga he had come to expect. (Drove me nuts that after the normal villager Qantaga showed up, Scoop accepted it. )

I am the opposite. I am much more prone to turn things over and over and over in my mind before trying to make a decision.

This was one sloooooow paced game. I thought I had mulled a lot of things over a lot of time. I like to think that I'm more prone to turn things over and over and over in my mind before trying to make a decision too, but I also feel some debt to the game and to contribute a little to the chaos of things with my perspective.

I mainly wanted to address this because my ability to play games at OO will be severely limited if I am judged evil because I can't definitively name a wolf candidate.

I can only say that, from time to time a refusal to contribute your own speculations, a 'wolf candidate', that will probably tend to make people nervous of you. (by people, I mean: Me)

[Qantaga]

What is interesting is that I basically was indeed picking up on what was indeed the case (absolutely correct me if I am wrong!):
You had not really formulated an opinion on who the wolves were among the remaining players.
You were caught off guard by my accusation and thought that you'd have been cleared by that N-1 vote, and not even really have to prove anything.

That is exactly right.

I was still trying to process what RMC being the 'zerker meant to my evaluations of Scoop, who had been my leading candidate up until that point. RMC being bad was what started moving me away from Scoop being bad, but I hadn't had a chance to think it through yet.

However, there is a reason that I did not do this:

Early on (in my accusation), you never had the cynical Villager thought of "whatever, dumb-ass, I'm not a wolf", and just moved on to explain why you thought "X" was the wolf.

After reading your dissertation post on me, especially after you had already *reprimanded* me (not trying to cause an argument on this term, just describing how it felt to me) for laying out the n-1 vote and the time passage around it, I made the conscious decision that trying to find the wolf would do me no good, unless you were indeed the wolf.

It seemed very clear that you were not likely to change your opinion of me. I saw your vote as being, by far, the least likely to move, meaning that we could not reach a consensus on Scoop or stessier being a wolf.

I honestly thought my only chance of securing a village win was in changing your mind and getting you to consider stessier or Scoop. Something I failed at miserably.

So, that was my strategic mistake. You are correct that I should have just said "whatever," but I honestly believed that my only options were to either change your mind or (as I finally did in my "weary of the effort" post) bet that you were Hugo.

(Edited Sat. morning to repair a couple of very bad run-on sentences).

[Qantaga]

Sadly, you will find that I'm all too willing (to a fault) to dissect these kinds of things almost forever. As fun.

[theohall]

Unagi, apologies for my rant the other day. It was out of line. Shouldn't be posting things that early in the morning without all my faculties.

[theohall]

This game is all about the wolf in sheep's clothing. This is what (I think) theohall was saying about how I was defending stessier, but condemning you for what amounts to the same things. the problem was that I had, myself, come up with the reasons I felt that stessier was good - my brain. You had been the one to try and explain all the reason you were good. I didn't really want to hear all that from you - I wanted to hear who you thought may be a villain and why,

This is exactly right. Thanks for your explanation on how you were reading it.

[Grundbegriff]

Even though we lost, this game is a lovely illustration of what's entertaining about navigating the uncertainties of Werewolf.

[Qantaga]

It's now three days later and I'm still replaying that last (game) day over and over in my mind (thinking of all the ways I should have done things differently).

How obsessive am I?

[Remus West]

It's now three days later and I'm still replaying that last (game) day over and over in my mind (thinking of all the ways I should have done things differently).

How obsessive am I?

You have yet to scratch the surface of true obsession, grasshopper.

[rshetts2]

Even though I was killed off almost immediately, I still followed the game with a lot of interest. I kept track of the spoiler forums but didnt really reply because Im so new at this and died so quick I didnt have any thing of import to add. Watching the process as it was going from behind the scenes was fascinating.
There were several turning points that almost but didnt quite happen. At the end I was sure the good side would win and was a bit surprised at Unagi's sheer bulldoggedness in the face of some fairly compelling evidence. Of course when you know for sure who the bad guy is the evidence is not just compelling but obvious and Ive been just as firm in my incorrect accusations as Unagi was, in other games.
There are so many contradictory positions in this game, perhaps thats the thing that makes it interesting. Ive seen one person accuse another of being a wolf because he was so vocal and was hiding behind his helpfulness and Ive seen that same person later accuse another individual of being a wolf because he was being too quiet and unhelpful. This game kind of had it all. Im sorry I died so quickly because it was such an interesting game but then as I said it gave me a unique experience with the opportunity to watch everything unfold, knowing all the roles, so I have no major regrets overall. Nice job everybody, it was a very fun ride.