Bond II - The Prometheus Dawn - END!

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:06 pm

Newcastle wrote:OK everyone should be able to access the Bond spoiler forums.

Can we get a link to the baddies forum?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:10 pm

follow the OO forum link, should be under Bond2, everything is housed there...the spoiler forum & the baddies forum.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:14 pm

Unagi, I thought you had blinders on the day you went nutso after remus, but wow. From now on, thy name is PitBull.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:14 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Newcastle wrote:OK everyone should be able to access the Bond spoiler forums.
Can we get a link to the baddies forum?

http://www.ooww.freeforums.org" target="_blank

lazy...

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:15 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Unagi, I thought you had blinders on the day you went nutso after remus, but wow. From now on, thy name is PitBull.

but we all voted for seppukunagi

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:17 pm

Chaosraven wrote: theohall

...i suggest either RMC, lassr, or tru1cy be scanned.

killing vote, Day One.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:34 pm

Lassr wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:
Newcastle wrote:OK everyone should be able to access the Bond spoiler forums.
Can we get a link to the baddies forum?
http://www.ooww.freeforums.org" target="_blank

lazy...

not lazy! my internet is super slow right now!!!
(probably due to my downloading Shogun total war 2, but that's neither here nor there!)

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:37 pm

Hey also, public service anouncement...not to dogpile on you unagi....but i was quite peeved at the fact that you brought out fo game stuff into the game in terms of trying to sway votes....they were: 1. where you tried to use bribery at octocon to get remus to change votes, you said something about giving 100 bucks to em or something; #2 when you brought up your work on Tron with scoop.

Both those just rubbed me the wrong way.

In terms of today...we all have crappy games here, and low moments. You'll rebound. And hey...you got a catchy nickname out of hte deal also: Sepukunagi! Catchy isnt it?

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:44 pm

Newcastle wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:
Newcastle wrote:OK everyone should be able to access the Bond spoiler forums.
Can we get a link to the baddies forum?
http://www.ooww.freeforums.org" target="_blank

lazy...

not lazy! my internet is super slow right now!!!
(probably due to my downloading Shogun total war 2, but that's neither here nor there!)

I was actually talking to Scoop but since you were so defensive you must be LAZY!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:50 pm

Lassr wrote:
Newcastle wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:
Newcastle wrote:OK everyone should be able to access the Bond spoiler forums.
Can we get a link to the baddies forum?
http://www.ooww.freeforums.org" target="_blank

lazy...

not lazy! my internet is super slow right now!!!
(probably due to my downloading Shogun total war 2, but that's neither here nor there!)
I was actually talking to Scoop but since you were so defensive you must be LAZY!

/goes to rewrite Lassr's death scene to read

Lassr was enjoying this sumptous meal, when all of a sudden he started choking on the rocky mountain oyster, he fell over dead moments later!

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:40 am

i will never trust Unagi again after his Seppukunagi.?

How in the heck can someone write a long ass post condemning someone when the majority of the post clears the accused??

And then follow it up by accusing the accused while doing the exact same thing he accuses the accused of doing????? This is painfully evident reading Unagi's single-minded myopic posts. He and RW are my targets #1 from here on out in any future WW game.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:50 am

theohall wrote:He and RW are my targets #1 from here on out in any future WW game.

What the hell did I do?

Anyway, I'll let Unagi off the hook for the $100 because he wasn't technically Spectre but as he was the MVP for their team I demand a free lunch.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:51 am

LOLs

omg, thank you Theohall, you seriously just brought me back up from the depths.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:52 am

theohall wrote:single-minded myopic posts.

Just coming from you Theohall, I'm reminded of the fun of these games.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:53 am

Unagi wrote:
theohall wrote:single-minded myopic posts.
Just coming from you Theohall, I'm reminded of the fun of these games.

I still want my lunch.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:56 am

just die already one-eye...... Your myopia cost the good guys a win, Unagi. Prior to the last day, you had made up your mind and it is painfully evident in all of your posts. Yet, you had to accuse the innocent of being guilty while ignoring all the evidence Scoop provided AND the death post of Remus West which you all ignored. WTF????????

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:58 am

Feel free to lol

Seppukunagi joins Remuscide in the WW lexicon.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:00 am

theohall wrote:just die already one-eye...... Your myopia cost the good guys a win, Unagi. Prior to the last day, you had made up your mind and it is painfully evident in all of your posts. Yet, you had to accuse the innocent of being guilty while ignoring all the evidence Scoop provided AND the death post of Remus West which you all ignored. WTF????????

I'm sorry, are you actually mad at me?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:01 am

Remus West wrote:
theohall wrote:He and RW are my targets #1 from here on out in any future WW game.
What the hell did I do?

Anyway, I'll let Unagi off the hook for the $100 because he wasn't technically Spectre but as he was the MVP for their team I demand a free lunch.

So neither of you can kill the village with your certain convictions

Remuscide..... SeppukUnagi......

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:02 am

Unagi wrote:
theohall wrote:just die already one-eye...... Your myopia cost the good guys a win, Unagi. Prior to the last day, you had made up your mind and it is painfully evident in all of your posts. Yet, you had to accuse the innocent of being guilty while ignoring all the evidence Scoop provided AND the death post of Remus West which you all ignored. WTF????????
I'm sorry, are you actually mad at me?

At the moment, yes.... but it will pass..... cyclops.

+ meta-gaming for the loss.... nice job, one-eye.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:18 am

Scoop20906 wrote:So, Unagi, should I have held out longer against you? Or were you dead set to see it end that way?

I sincerely wasn't going to force a deadlock. But Qantaga's lack of conviction on any wolf at all just didn't really seem normal to me.

And, once I was cleared at the end there, I sincerely felt actually free to consider the sincere thoughts I had on stessier actually being the other bad guy, but felt I'd be robbing myself to toss the theory I had been supporting.

While you and I were arguing, and no one knew if I was a good guy or bad guy - frankly - I really believed that if I switched to stessier that the three of you (a wolf clearly amongst you 3...) would likely swoop down on me and Agents lose the game.

I guess to directly answer that question - yeah, if you sat on it for like another day, I would have probably just been 'happy to be proved in defeat' and moved my vote.

I'm much more impatient than you I think, that end game drove me nuts.

theohall wrote:+ meta-gaming for the loss.... nice job, one-eye.

Care to toss a few more stones there, Theohall? Man, you're a saint there, pal.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:28 am

ok the cyclops bit i dont get...

but seriously guys might want to calm down. I am sure Unagi feels like crap at being wrong like that. But in the end its just a game and should treat it like that. Its a loss, yes for team MI6 but once again, its just a game.

Since you sound genuinely very pissed at Unagi right now Theohall. IF thats the case, you might want to just chill for a bit. NO need to rattle each others cages.

Anywho, thanks for letting me host this guys. Am sure will have to think up a Bond III in the future. Already have an idea. So far its Spectre 2 MI6 0.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:31 am

theohall wrote:
Remus West wrote:
theohall wrote:He and RW are my targets #1 from here on out in any future WW game.
What the hell did I do?

Anyway, I'll let Unagi off the hook for the $100 because he wasn't technically Spectre but as he was the MVP for their team I demand a free lunch.
So neither of you can kill the village with your certain convictions

Remuscide..... SeppukUnagi......

You may want to look up the Remuscide game again. I told people I had no real idea and not to follow me. They just wouldn't listen.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:49 am

No, this is much more akin to MY colossal Blunder. Let me go find it...

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:00 am

Lars Lynching Liasons 4: Game has ended

The origin of many OOWW standards

The Chaosraving:
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 86#p941686" target="_blank

Spoiler:

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:36 am

Thanks for running this Newcastle, it was a lot of fun!

And don't feel bad Unagi, we all have been there. I can't find the game I did it, but I remember skipping 3 or 4 afterwards because I was so mad. Don't do that - gotta get right back on the horse and try again!

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:04 am

Hey I am 2-0 in these games. I feel good..Um..even though I was evil..Can I still feel good?

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:54 am

Newcastle wrote:Anywho, thanks for letting me host this guys. Am sure will have to think up a Bond III in the future. Already have an idea. So far its Spectre 2 MI6 0.

I really enjoy the Bond games, even if I'm 0-2 in them. So thanks for setting it up and get to work on Bond III already! You could have had the whole thing set up in that final day!

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:55 am

Newcastle: Another excellent game. The atmosphere, the write-ups, the rule set. It's a pure game and a ton of fun. Thank you for hosting! You can automatically sign me up for any and all future Bond games. (I really would like to be on the winning side of one someday, though, please).

Scoop: You are the man! You had it pegged on the last day. You were awesome. Thank you for sparing me at the end. We got oh, so close to pulling it out of the fire. Had we won, it would have been all to your credit. Excellent analysis!

stessier: Very well played. I should have payed more attention to the voting records, but your defense of the n-1 moment (of which I was shocked that Unagi could disregard so easily) really did snow me over until Unagi was already locked in.

Lassr and RMC: congrats to you two, as well. Nice win. You three played very well together as a team.

Good MI6 agents: I want to apologize for losing the game. I thought I had truth and justice on my side and that I could convince Unagi that I truly was good, so that we could start looking for the real Hugo. I see now that I should never have engaged Unagi at all. My sincere apologies. You all played what could have been a winning game and I blew it at the end.

Our specials did a great job. Chaos on the Remus protect, Remus on exposing Lassr and his dying analysis where he named stessier his #1 candidate. Also, msteelers did a nice job as Bond. He knew the shot had to be taken at that point in the game. Even though he missed on tru1cy, his miss should have pointed me to look harder at stessier, since stess had been after tru1cy the entire early game.

Unagi: I tried!

No worries, though!

We all do what we think is best and you sure kept me on my toes. It is just a game and the interactions like we had are a big reason I'm drawn to the game.

I don't want to get into a point by point debate, by any means. I'm happy to tip my cap and keep moving, but there is one philosophical difference that we have that I want to mention:

Unagi wrote:But Qantaga's lack of conviction on any wolf at all just didn't really seem normal to me.

This is where you and I are worlds apart in game philosophy and if not having conviction on a wolf is grounds for lynching, I won't last long in any of these games. I had hints and clues, but I did not have conviction (and, I can't see how anyone can have conviction on the last day - look where it took you). Your unwavering conviction sounded just as strange to me as my lack of conviction sounds to you. I wanted to try to find a wolf. I wanted a group effort. But, instead of really being able to speculate on the three of you, I was forced into defending myself from the opening of the last day. I know you say you weren't going to stalemate, but it was extremely obvious that you were the least likely to move. I knew I had to A) change your opinion of me or B) come to the conclusion that you were Hugo because, man, you tore down everything I posted and it is obvious even at the end that your vote was, by far, the one least likely to move. I made the strategic mistake of trying to mount a righteous campaign to prove my innocence.

As I said, we just look at these things differently in the overall scheme of a WW game and I suppose it was inevitable that we would clash on them in a game. I just wish we had been on opposite sides when we clashed.

But, it's all good and seriously, no hard feelings at all.

I did learn an awful lot this game.

I learned that ezmating (which I call common courtesy) is an immediate conviction of guilt on OO.

I learned that trying to defend yourself is an immediate conviction of guilt on OO.

I learned that I am still swimming in the shallow waters and maybe one day I will be able to shed these floaties and swim with the rest of the OOers in the deep end.

Lessons tucked firmly away for the future.

Thanks to everyone involved. It was a ton of fun.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:02 am

Qantaga wrote:I learned that ezmating (which I call common courtesy) is an immediate conviction of guilt on OO.

It's really not (Lassr does it a lot and gets away with it). Well maybe a little (Lassr rarely makes it to the end of games). But if you are consistent in it, you'll probably be fine. Well, after a few more lynches. But eventually.

Of course then, if you disappear without warning, you'll be lynched. So there is a fine line there.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:11 am

For the record, I died thinking Scoop was the third. Stessier is one sneaky little bastard. Those planted bits seemed to have worked just as well on Unagi as they did on me.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:28 am

Guess I should have picked a better patsy instead of Scoop. But I knew at the end I would not really get everyone to vote Scoop, and was just going for the lynch. I also know I can never play the "I'm a newb" card. <sigh> That card makes it so much easier...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:34 am

It should be corrected (cause this annoys me, since it seems way off to me) that I didn't disregard the N-1 moment so easily.

If you all could only get in my head, you'd have seen what I thought was the manuever (stesseir, of course, actually saw it and articulated it well at the end, clearly - not accurately, but none-the-less, that it looked almost as if the N-1 moment was created to give them all an alibi should any of the others fall. In effect, I felt that Qantaga had 1 moment that could have been crafted that spoke to his innocence, I sincerely felt that there were a few things Stessier did that simply MADE HIM NOT THE VILLAIN. I had absolutely concluded that Scoop was innocent (in fact, stessier gunning on Scoop was perhaps the one thing that most kept me going back to thinking stessier), so with Scoop and Stessier innocent, I clearly, mentally, had to look for a way that Qantaga was the wolf. And frankly - once the N-1 moment was removed from the list of 'Not Bad', it seemed clear there was hardly anyhing on the list. Add to that the entire game focused on triggercutting someone, then the huge wave of Ezmating on the end day. Dudes, this was looking like I really had found a very smart team of wolves.

So, you can all wonder at how I disregarded the N-1 moment so easily, but you aren't really describing what my analysis was. I didn't discard it easily - I truly started from a position where that stood out as being almost the opposite of what it seeemed to all of you. So, if you want to focus on the moment of "failure", it's the natural stessier comments that truly "spelled our doom", Or more to the point, Unagi's interest in them, not Unagi's inability to see what the N-1 moment told him.

And, the blame on this game falls just as squarely on everyone, I'm sorry (Theohall) if you want me to feel like it's entirely my fault, but this was 1 day and 1 vote.
I didn't vote you offf.
I didn't vote Qantaga off on the second day.
I have no problem voting off a quiet player (be it Grund or tru1cy)
Focusing on the mathmatical population errors or Remus was actually not (historically) a bad idea, Remus earned it, he knew it - so be it.
Being upset when Remus used what looked like a semi-claim (baiting the real seer?) of Seer to defend his math error, that's when I focused on him in earnest.
(this actually reminds me , I also couldn't reconsile Qantaga being upset with me thinking Chaosraven was perhaps a bad-guy for killing Grund without letting him speak up)

There are theohalls' of the world, (and there are days where I am one of em, so Theohall, I hope you don't think I'm too upset with you being upset) - But then there are the other people, and I do thank the kind (forgiving) words I've gotten in PMs and in this thread - - So, I will be fine. The irony of Theohall being frustrated by my myopic (clearly his word of the day) play was actually sincerely uplifting. It showed me how everyone sees these things through different lenses. I mean to think I was scolded by Theohall for being focused on the wrong thing and unable to get my mind off it is, and I mean this kindly and not as an attack, it's almost charming.

I guess the truth is, it actually doesn't bother me THAT much to be wrong, but I certainly don't want people to think that I don't want to be right, and that I'm not trying (and I WAS right about Lassr before the Scan was shared, and also correctly suggested we shoot RMC, and never Backed Down.

) - So I don't want to be to dismissinve of our loss. It does suck - but I dare say I 'try' and I 'play', and I dare say that is far more critical to the health and enjoyment of these games than a huge win-to-loss ratio.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:36 am

stessier should be worried about seeing me in the flesh next though.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:37 am

I mean more than the normally prescribe panic that anyone may have of seeing me in the flesh.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:54 am

Unagi wrote: I also couldn't reconsile Qantaga being upset with me thinking Chaosraven was perhaps a bad-guy for killing Grund without letting him speak up.

Huh? I'm confused. When was I ever upset about that? At the time, I said:

Qantaga wrote:Sweet!

Nicely done Judy Havelock.

One thing that concerns me is that we did not get to hear from Grund when he was n-1. It would have been nice to see if he would have claimed Special or not.

My next comment on the matter was after Chaos claimed to be Judy:

Qantaga wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:As I noted in my protection order, I figured with two killing votes I would be a reasonable frame so who better than Remus, unless he was a bad guy. Guess what? So which of you decided that was a good plan? Cuz I gotcha! Remus West is a good guy. Now let's all chew on that for a bit.

Very interesting.

It must be true (that Chaos and Remus are good) in the absence of a counter, since Judy is most definitely still alive today.

This increases our chances of lynching a bad guy today quite a bit (3/8, instead of 3/10).

Of course, we'll need everyone to check in to make sure there are no counter claims of Ms. Havelock.

I'm very curious where you ever thought you saw me being upset with you about Chaos perhaps being bad.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:58 am

Unagi wrote:I mean more than the normally prescribe panic that anyone may have of seeing me in the flesh.

I thought that was supposed to be our little secret.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:05 am

I enjoyed watching the last 25% (roughly) of this game. FWIW I was inclined to think that Scoop was Hugo, though I was only paying passing attention in any event.

What I don't understand is how you guys have the time and inclination to sort through 20 pages of posts for nuggets and clues. "On p.5 Remus posted that he was having lamb for lunch. Who would enjoy lamb....but a wolf?!?!". I mean, it's admirable devotion, but I just couldn't bring myself to do that kind of homework.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:12 am

Qantaga wrote:Huh? I'm confused. When was I ever upset about that?

I'll try and look it up, but my memory is that you had listed a number of reasons you thought I was sincerly Evil, and in them you listed my accusations against Remus & Chaosraven... at the time, I remember replying with something like "You fault me for finding Chaos's play evil ??"

Perhaps "upset" wasn't the right word... I should have said; when you listed my position on Chaos as 'points against me'.

ahh, here:

Unagi wrote:
Qantaga wrote:You've been convinced it's tru!cy
that's a stretch.

Qantaga wrote:then Grund, then msteelers, then Chaosraven, then Remus,
yeah, Grund wasn't troubling.
and you are going to call me out on Chaosraven?

And, Remus - the math errors on population counts really do tend to point to wolves, what do you want me to do about that.
I dunno about msteelers... he was in the shadows (turns out because he knew he could prove himself at any minute)
And, by the way, my "msteelers should shoot" vote was on RMC.

That up there is actually a great place for me to show where I thought you were desprately looking to sink the guy that was attacking you. (me)
Just because I was wrong about Grund, for instance, really doesn't say anything as to why I may or may not be right about you...
And then when you painted me as "Backing Off RMC", I thought it was clear you were just lying - as well, I never did - I actually voted for him First on that next day. There wasn't anyone that was actually 'stronger' against RMC (not saying I was the strongest against him, but I never backed down....)

I didn't really want to dwell on that too much, because of course - my vote helped make the zerker pop early.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:17 am

Unagi, I ain't mad at you and in fact I enjoyed quite a bit the last day. I wasn't nearly as frustrated as you were it seems with the standoff and I think mostly because I felt comfortable with choosing stessier.

Here is how I failed you Unagi and my biggest weakness in these games.

I wasn't able to articulate my suspicions about stessier to you. I felt like the baddies were chipping at me throughout the game. In fact, the big moment for me with Stessier was his accusation that my "Sudden but Inevitable Betrayal" comment to RMC was a setup. At that point I knew something was up but wasn't sure about.

On Day One after the weekend of posts between Q and Unagi, I expected Stess to come on and post something about how he wasn't sure if it was Unagi or myself. Instead, Stessier when full bore into me and it simply shocked me. It was the wrong play for a agent and I knew it. I just didn't know how articulate it.

So, Unagi, I failed you as well. Maybe we can both learn to listen to each other in own ways next time. (That was the point of my PM post to you that the other can't read).