BSG VII -Sabotage -Game Over-Minor Victory-Humans

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:45 am

Qantaga wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:If RMC is the final cylon, he has solid balls of steel.
Actually, they make them from a unique silicon brass alloy.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:48 am

Semaj wrote:I am prolly going LL to SPITE Chaos...

Good game everyone. I'm going to vote Qantaga tomorrow. If Semaj is the cylon, well done to you. If Qantaga manage to convice Semaj to vote for me tomorrow, well done to you...

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:48 am

No pressure, Semaj.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:38 pm

0800

The survivors begin trickling into the conference room at 0800, the last to arrive is Semaj. He looks at Qantaga and Lagom Lite, takes a deep breath and announces, "I found Unagi's body, someone beat the frak out of his head."
Qantaga shakes his head, "This has to end today."
Lagom just nods in reply.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:38 pm

1 Qantaga ----------
2 Lagom Lite ----------
3 semaj ----------
.
----------
----------
----------

Majority is: 2
Deadline is: Thursday June 30th 8PM Central

ChrisGrenard - executed-human
theohall - scalped
Isgrimnur - strangled-human
scoop - executed-Cylon
Newcastle - beaten to death
redrun - executed-human
bb2112 - knifed
tru1cy - executed-Cylon
Remus West - butchered
Grundbegriff - boom goes the dynamite
stessier - blown
LordMortis - executed-human
Chaosraven - extreme S&M
msteelers - executed-Cylon
pr0ner - silenced
RMC - executed-human
Unagi - pulverized

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:01 am

At least if we lose, i can blame booze...

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:54 am

Qantaga

I hope I'm not wrong. But I feel Semaj deserves a win if he's a bad guy. Qantaga has, successfully, trying to avoid attention for the major part of the game. Once I called him out on it, he explodes in a flurry of self-defense.

I remember the game (wolf woods?) when Qantaga was the Undertaker. He made poignant, incisive and insightful posts. This game he has been different, and I feel he's been reacting in a way that doesn't reflect what I've seen in him as a good guy.

As for me, I suppose, in part, you could say the same as I'm saying about Qantaga. I've not been as active, instead sitting in the back seat for most of the game. But I am just a Citizen, and I have been trying to read the cylons as best I can. I hope my actions this game speaks for itself - I drove the Grund train, despite it being diverted both once and twice. I tried to stave off the LordMortis and RMC trains.

If you have any worries or questions to me, feel free to ask them. I'll answer as best I can. If you're a cylon, I suppose you'll just pile on the Qantaga vote and win...

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:06 am

Semaj,

I am human.

I don't envy you your task today. I know you have gone back through the thread in detail. I am glad that you have done so and I welcome any discussion that you might wish about anything at all. I do want to say a few things before you make your decision:

1. The funny thing is that I still think there's a chance you could be the last Cylon. theohall's threat list of {you, RMC, and LordMortis} still hangs out there as the only reason I can think of for theohall to be both sedated and shot. Since RMC and LM were both human, it seems to me that there's a chance you could be the Cylon. Of course, with Lagom's vote, you now have the power to win the game. Thankfully, I feel much more confident in Lagom being the last Cylon than I do in it being you. If you are the last Cylon, I'll tip my cap and ask you to make our destruction painless.

2. Lagom's "case" against me isn't a case, it's cover. It is all smoke and mirrors. He admits that he formed his opinion on barely half the game. There is no substance to his opinion. It is all an accusation of me "hiding" and "joking," something that he now admits even applies moreso to him (especially compared to his normal playstyle). He didn't lock in on me based on game actions, a voting pattern, or any of my opinions. He tries to tell you that all I've done this game is hide and defend myself. That is patently untrue. He used accusation to hide behind. It reminds me very much of the way an evil stessier locked in on a good Sccop in the Bond II game. Unagi saw the flaw in Lagom's "reasoning":

Unagi wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:Obviously you haven't read anything I wrote.
I'll be frank. Almost your entire argument on Qantaga applies to you and your manuevers as well.

Since Lagom points to his voting record as his redemption, I'll leave it to you to decide what his Grund vote means (there have been multiple discussions on the Grund vote throughout the game), but I do want to remind you of how he "tried to stave off" the LordMortis train. He did initially. He even said very clearly that he "really doesn't think LM is a cylon." Then, a short time later, he cast the killing vote on LM. As for RMC, what safer place for a Cylon (Lagom) to be than on one human (me) while the rest of the village debates the strange actions of another human (RMC)?

3. There is a moment of pure clarity in this game. It came from redrun:

redrun wrote: Qantaga and Grund and Stessier - if they are on the same team, they do not know it. (But one of them may know they are not on the same team.)

My favorite vote for today is Lagom.. Qantaga, Grund, or Stessier might be evil, and I think we'd learn from the death of one of them - but my gut feeling is that only one of them is evil.

Lagom Lite

This is the truth. Grund, stess, and I were all on different teams. Grund = Cylon, stessier = traitor, Qantaga = human.

redrun was right about Grund, stess, and I. He's also right about Lagom.

If you aren't the last Cylon Semaj, Lagom is.

Lagom Lite

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:18 am

Lagom Lite wrote:I remember the game (wolf woods?) when Qantaga was the Undertaker. He made poignant, incisive and insightful posts. This game he has been different, and I feel he's been reacting in a way that doesn't reflect what I've seen in him as a good guy.

That is true. But, it's not a matter of good/evil. As the Undertaker, I had certain knowledge based on my scans. I especially had certain knowledge when stess tried to spoof the Seer. My "insightful" posts in that game were based on the fact that I had inside information and could spot flaws in others' posts, based on my inside information. In this game, I have been flying blind, as a Civilian human, with no inside information at all. I've been trying my best to guess. Of course, you're going to see a difference in a game where I have inside information and in a game where I don't. Unagi even made a comment earlier that my behavior this game reminded him of my behavior in Bond II, where I was an unpowered innocent.

Lagom just made a very good case for my innocence. If I was the last Cylon, I would have had inside information available to me the entire game and could have easily manufactured "insightful" posts. The very fact that I am floundering to find the truth this game should tell you that I am indeed good.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:35 am

1 Qantaga ---------- Lagom Lite
2 Lagom Lite ---------- Qantaga
3 semaj ----------
.
Qantaga 1 ---------- Lagom Lite
Lagom Lite 1 ---------- Qantaga
----------

Majority is: 2
Deadline is: Thursday June 30th 8PM Central

ChrisGrenard - executed-human
theohall - scalped
Isgrimnur - strangled-human
scoop - executed-Cylon
Newcastle - beaten to death
redrun - executed-human
bb2112 - knifed
tru1cy - executed-Cylon
Remus West - butchered
Grundbegriff - boom goes the dynamite
stessier - blown
LordMortis - executed-human
Chaosraven - extreme S&M
msteelers - executed-Cylon
pr0ner - silenced
RMC - executed-human
Unagi - pulverized

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:39 pm

Im stuck at UB helping friends do dumb things... I'll vote when I get home.. sorry to be a douche... i borrowed someones laptop to apologise...

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:13 am

Semaj wrote:Im stuck at UB helping friends do dumb things... I'll vote when I get home.. sorry to be a douche... i borrowed someones laptop to apologise...

It's ok - though the suspense is killing me!

At least now I know I was right. You could have voted for either of us and won if you were a cylon, from that borrowed laptop.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:11 am

Well duh, when I am evil I always self implode by now, pshah...

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:35 am

to drink before I decide, to stay sober (knowing its 4:30am and i sure as hell have no bars to go to)

drink it is

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:40 am

One of these days its gonna be unagi making this decision... all I see is the thousands of comments following my wrong guess.

Reasons for Q: Been feeling like him and msteelers have been sorta in synch for a decent chunk of my re-read. His voting patterns for the most part... his thoughts on specific points and whom he defended and ignored.

Resons for LL: HIs last vote, his general sneakyness. The fact I am still alive.

yup I am hosed...

so I'ma finish this guiness and reread for like 30 mins.

You do know its 5:40am here... hopefully none of you are up and reading my dilly-dallying

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:42 am

other than RMC>.. whatdahellareyoudoingup?

(No i know you cant answer this)

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:49 am

F it... screw reading... if its LL he's played too good...

Quantaga

if your evil LL good game... good game

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:50 am

now let the ridicule commence... ima go nap... ima frakking beat.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:47 am

Hey, I won! And so did my friends!

(I won't spoiler Lassr's writeup

)

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:45 am

Qantaga ---------- Lagom Lite
Lagom Lite ---------- Qantaga
semaj ---------- Qantaga
.
Qantaga 2 ---------- Lagom Lite
Lagom Lite 1 ---------- Qantaga
----------

Majority is: 2 VOTING CLOSED
Deadline is: Thursday June 30th 8PM Central

ChrisGrenard - executed-human
theohall - scalped
Isgrimnur - strangled-human
scoop - executed-Cylon
Newcastle - beaten to death
redrun - executed-human
bb2112 - knifed
tru1cy - executed-Cylon
Remus West - butchered
Grundbegriff - boom goes the dynamite
stessier - blown
LordMortis - executed-human
Chaosraven - extreme S&M
msteelers - executed-Cylon
pr0ner - silenced
RMC - executed-human
Unagi - pulverized

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:06 am

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:20 am

0910

As Lagom and Qantaga argued over who was human and who was the last Cylon, Semaj sat back and watched. They both had good arguments. Semaj reaches in his pocket and pulls out his notes from the past few nightmarish days. He holds them up and stares at them, he then cocks his head to the side and looks some more. He couldn't make out anything he had wrote....it was just unreadable....well, except for the picture of the bunny he had drawn. Semaj wads up the notes and tosses them toward the waste basket. He misses and the paper tumbles into the corner. He takes a deep sigh and pulls out his flask.

0950

Lagom and Qantaga continue their debate as Semaj turns up the flask and looks in it wondering where all his precious alcohol went. He sits the flask down and sees the syringe laying on the table next to him. He picks it up, "Time to end this now" he thinks to himself. Semaj stumbles toward the two as they argued. He eyes Lagom's neck as he thinks, "That accent bugs me. It's probably a Cylon trick." He closes on his target but trips over his feet and the needle jabs into Qantaga. Stunned, Semaj shouts, "Qantaga!" Fate had cast the final vote. Qantaga pulls the needle from his neck and looks at it; it was empty. "You fool! You've doomed us!" Qantaga feels his eyes getting heavy as he slides down into the floor.
Lagom jumps up and grabs the BCD. "Nice job Semaj!" Semaj gives him the thumbs up signal. Lagom holds the BCD to Qantaga's head and waits. A few minutes pass before the brain activity stops. Then the signal appears. Qantaga was a Cylon.
Lagom jumps up, "We won!" He holds up to his hand for a celebration slap from Semaj but he is now asleep on the floor. Lagom looks around at the empty room and thinks about all the bodies in the cooler and realizes that it may be a human victory but they couldn't afford many more victories like this.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:31 am

Awesome ruleset, Lassr. Really good.

I like it when games go to the "final day" - like a climactic, final showdown.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:31 am

everyone should have access at ooww.freeforums.org

semaj, you will need to sign up.

All the write ups are located there.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:43 am

Great game. I think the Cylons played at a dis-advantage with initial rez and all the self outing. The pool of known was just to big, imo. Anyway, great game

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:12 am

Good fun game.

Thanks Lassr - seriously always a great time.

Lagom, I was totally worried there at the very end when you wrote:

Lagom Lite wrote: If you're a cylon, I suppose you'll just pile on the Qantaga vote and win...

I thought that meant you were a cylon, as you spaced out that Semaj could also pile on the Lagom vote and win...
It even looked to me that you caught your error and tried to fix it:

Lagom Lite wrote:At least now I know I was right. You could have voted for either of us and won if you were a cylon, from that borrowed laptop.

Qantaga, you did a good job here at the end, the end game is very hard to manipulate.

Let's just get this on record though, while it's still fresh in our minds:

Qantaga wrote:If I was the last Cylon, I would have had inside information available to me the entire game and could have easily manufactured "insightful" posts. The very fact that I am floundering to find the truth this game should tell you that I am indeed good.

Um, no.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:14 am

I can't believe I survived the entire game... I survived. Me.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:18 am

Unagi you killed me...You asshat... I am so using that a ton in the future...

Good times..

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:21 am

Another Guiness for Semaj on me! I can't believe the lush got it right.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:34 am

stessier wrote:Another Guiness for Semaj on me! I can't believe the lush got it right.

So, how was playing Zarek? It had to be the hardest role. You either won by mutiny or had to survive with the humans.
I think I made the mutiny victory too hard to achieve.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:46 am

I posted this in the other forum, but it is worth mentioning here.

LL, some great analysis down the stretch. I was really doubting you most of the game, but when you did your reread you nailed it!

Overall, I would have to say great job to everyone. The cylons played a brilliant game even though odds were against them early on, the humans did eventually win a nail biter, and Lassr you did a fantastic job! Balanced rules, great write ups, and very fun. Overall an epic game. One that I will definitely look forward to in the future.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:03 am

Lassr wrote:
stessier wrote:Another Guiness for Semaj on me! I can't believe the lush got it right.
So, how was playing Zarek? It had to be the hardest role. You either won by mutiny or had to survive with the humans.
I think I made the mutiny victory too hard to achieve.

I was entertained. I didn't see how I could pull off the mutiny and staying alive until the end just wasn't happening after my last two games, but I like the underdog so I was up for trying. I know that technically I lost when I died, but I'm still human, darnit, so their ultimate victory was good enough for my ego.

The problem with the mutiny was that once the Specials started coming out, it becomes near impossible as the lynch targets and mutiny targets become one in the same. I'm not sure how you fix that. I kind of liked being able to identify Specials by missing on the conversion. And not being able to convert after a lynched Cylon is brutal. I know it makes a kind of sense, but having to live yet another day without increasing in numbers is rough. (I say "kind of sense" because you could always spin it the other way with Zarek telling his target "Look, we got a cylon, but X, Y, & Z also had votes and any of them could have been lynched as well. We can't let this corrupt process continue!")

Oh - that gives me a thought. The Traitors really have no way to influence the game directly as they don't know each other (Unagi said as much when he said he basically ignored it and would just be happy if he happened to win that way). What if Zarek got their votes as Overvotes? That is, when Zarek converts, his target loses his vote and Zarek can cast it in secret. So as his conversions grow, so does his power. The target could still vote wherever they way, but it wouldn't count. That would add some extra strategy as the target wouldn't want to get found out, so he wouldn't want to be on the kill vote - basically he'd have to "fly casually."

Unagi - did you ever figure out I was Zarek? Just wondering as I tried to let you know and I couldn't tell if you picked up on it.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:12 am

stessier wrote:Oh - that gives me a thought. The Traitors really have no way to influence the game directly as they don't know each other (Unagi said as much when he said he basically ignored it and would just be happy if he happened to win that way). What if Zarek got their votes as Overvotes? That is, when Zarek converts, his target loses his vote and Zarek can cast it in secret. So as his conversions grow, so does his power. The target could still vote wherever they way, but it wouldn't count. That would add some extra strategy as the target wouldn't want to get found out, so he wouldn't want to be on the kill vote - basically he'd have to "fly casually."

I think that's a great idea. Only the vote shouldn't happen in secret. It should just happen. When the traitor votes, his vote is worth the amount of conversion votes but doesn't get tallied until you hit N. His clan votes mean nothing even when someone gets to N or N +1 or N + 2. I also think the traitor should be immune to night kills and shouldn't be able to win with humans. That being the case, I would reduce the Cylons by one.

It makes life more difficult to hide as his uprising happens but as his power grows it also becomes more difficult to lynch him.

It effectively creates a fully unique third side.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:15 am

Lassr, you ran an amazing game!

Thanks for the ruleset, thanks for your mod skills, and thank you for your great write-ups!

Everyone needs to go to the Cylon Chat Room (please ignore my innumerable gaffes while you're there) and read Lassr's write-ups from the Cylon side. They were very entertaining and kept the game lore/world/immersion very enjoyable.

I'm going to have a hard time letting this game go because it was so much fun and I had grown addicted to checking it for new posts and developments.

Thanks Lassr!

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:18 am

If Zarek is used again, his power would have to be tweaked. One rule change would be allowing to recruit after a Cylon lynch.
Doc's role will change.

Doc may send one PM and get one reply from either the most recent night or day kill. May PM with the night kill at any time before the next death occurs. After any death during the day (including lynch victim) Doc may request the PM immediately and get an immediate reply; no waiting period. May be used on any kill no matter the method of death but it has to be the most recent kill. One usage per day cycle.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:19 am

Unagi wrote:Let's just get this on record though, while it's still fresh in our minds:
Qantaga wrote:If I was the last Cylon, I would have had inside information available to me the entire game and could have easily manufactured "insightful" posts. The very fact that I am floundering to find the truth this game should tell you that I am indeed good.
Um, no.

Unagi, believe me, I know how thin that was.

I was grasping at straws. Semaj was already leaning towards voting for me (he mentioned earlier that he didn't see a Lagom/msteelers connection), so I was trying to find anything to differentiate myself from Lagom and cast any shadow of doubt on Lagom in Semaj's mind.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:20 am

Qantaga wrote:Lassr, you ran an amazing game!

Thanks for the ruleset, thanks for your mod skills, and thank you for your great write-ups!

Everyone needs to go to the Cylon Chat Room (please ignore my innumerable gaffes while you're there) and read Lassr's write-ups from the Cylon side. They were very entertaining and kept the game lore/world/immersion very enjoyable.

I'm going to have a hard time letting this game go because it was so much fun and I had grown addicted to checking it for new posts and developments.

Thanks Lassr!

write ups are also on the spoiler forum on the first page. That's where I wrote everything and then just pasted it to other forum or PMs.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:21 am

LordMortis wrote:
stessier wrote:Oh - that gives me a thought. The Traitors really have no way to influence the game directly as they don't know each other (Unagi said as much when he said he basically ignored it and would just be happy if he happened to win that way). What if Zarek got their votes as Overvotes? That is, when Zarek converts, his target loses his vote and Zarek can cast it in secret. So as his conversions grow, so does his power. The target could still vote wherever they way, but it wouldn't count. That would add some extra strategy as the target wouldn't want to get found out, so he wouldn't want to be on the kill vote - basically he'd have to "fly casually."
I think that's a great idea. Only the vote shouldn't happen in secret. It should just happen. When the traitor votes, his vote is worth the amount of conversion votes but doesn't get tallied until you hit N. His clan votes mean nothing even when someone gets to N or N +1 or N + 2. I also think the traitor should be immune to night kills and shouldn't be able to win with humans. That being the case, I would reduce the Cylons by one.

It makes life more difficult to hide as his uprising happens but as his power grows it also becomes more difficult to lynch him.

It effectively creates a fully unique third side.

that is an idea to consider. I'll make a note and run through scenarios before my next game.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:22 am

Unagi wrote:yeah. Qantaga.

He's due.

Thankfully, I can finally shred this albatross that has followed me for the past several games.

I AM NO LONGER DUE.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:25 am

Qantaga wrote:
Unagi wrote:yeah. Qantaga.

He's due.

Thankfully, I can finally shred this albatross that has followed me for the past several games.

I AM NO LONGER DUE.

Congrats!

Now about that RMC guy...