Star Wars WW - Game Over - Rebel Victory

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:41 am

Hopefully for the Imperials they don't jump on your vote, but you are moving up my matrix, but KK is still a higher priority than going tit for tat.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:45 am

LordMortis wrote:The even numbers make it interesting, needing to get a consensus of six.

WTF?

Players Remaining 9
Majority is 5
Deadline: Monday August 8, 9PM EST

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:46 am

El Guapo wrote:The conspiracy theory would then be that they have Talon Karrde, and so that pr0ner wasn't really unpowered then, and possibly that tru1cy wasn't either.

I missed the tru1cy kill, but yes that's the conspiracy theory, I think. That Rebels both knew who they killed and had Luke, found mara, proved her by silencing her, and then snagged her to their side.

It just seems like Occam's Razor that Remus is imperial when he was 100% proven imperial on day 3 and hasn't done anything suspicious since. He put Grund at n-1...why do that if he's now a rebel Mara Jade?

Occum's Razor doesn't apply when you have outside interests obfuscating things.

Also no random shooting of an imperial yet, so there's not even any indication that Mara and/or Luke is in the game.

Aye. Definitely.

In any event I'm not sure that there's any point in debating this now when we're agreed that we're not going to lynch on it today in any event.

Or possibly at all. My thought is not to lynch Remus but simply not follow his lead, ie, trust him implicitly.

And of course after pr0ner and tru1cy, I'm trying to remember why you're 100% proven even I know it was already explained to me once.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:47 am

coopasonic wrote:
LordMortis wrote:The even numbers make it interesting, needing to get a consensus of six.
WTF?

Players Remaining 9
Majority is 5
Deadline: Monday August 8, 9PM EST

So it is.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:48 am

Wow. I take a weekend off from the computer, and things move right along. The Grund vote was pretty obvious going into the weekend, I suppose. Good hit.

I can easily see my way to vote for kk or Bubbles today. They've both had my vote before, and I've seen nothing that dissuades me from putting it back.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:55 am

LordMortis wrote:And of course after pr0ner and tru1cy, I'm trying to remember why you're 100% proven even I know it was already explained to me once.

99% proven.

He pointed the finger at Newcastle. If there is a grand conspiracy, he *could* be part of it, but after the Newcastle thing I swore off grand conspiracies.

El Guapo is Jabba and he was on the Han lynch so got a free scan and hit Newcastle as Leia and handed her to us. That's the story anyhow.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:56 am

LordMortis wrote: Or possibly at all. My thought is not to lynch Remus but simply not follow his lead, ie, trust him implicitly.

And of course after pr0ner and tru1cy, I'm trying to remember why you're 100% proven even I know it was already explained to me once.

I'm not 100% proven. My credit is that I gave us Newcastle via my Jabba scan. It's possible (the conspiracy theory) that I'm a rebel who threw Newcastle to the wolves to gain trust. So I'm not in the "literally proven" box like Unagi was (though a couple people have put me in that), but in the "mostly proven / trusted" box.

As for Remus, he's supported both rebel lynches since the supposed Mara conversion took place (RMC and Grund), and placed non-early votes on both. I mean, except for literally proven events like Unagi's force choke you can always gin up theories, but unless some evidence surfaces of suspicious behavior it's not really much to go on - 90% of the time you'll just wind up tilting at windmills.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:57 am

now is the time that the rebels will be making their moves. I suspect the rebels will be most vocal now and leading the march against the imperials. It is already evident to me who these people are. I suspect they are sweating and going after the easiest targets. I am more interested in what the proven have to say and I will hold off my vote until they say what they need to say. I suggest others do the same, but I suspect LM is a rebel trying to go after easy targets.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:now is the time that the rebels will be making their moves. I suspect the rebels will be most vocal now and leading the march against the imperials. It is already evident to me who these people are.

I love posts like this. If the rebels are evident, why not enlighten us so that we may lynch them?

Mortis' weird posts do make me somewhat suspicious of him. But then, what it goes back to for me is that KK is highly quiet and many of the posts he has made are suspicious. Highly quiet + limited posts are suspicious seems like a pretty good formula for rebels.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote: I suggest others do the same, but I suspect LM is a rebel trying to go after easy targets.

Absolutely I am. KK has done nothing to advance the game and has been absent enough during voting that his absence detrimental. While I find it hard to believe both he and grund were rebel, it's still preferable to many an alternative.

Higher than that is you much like Grund was the easy target higher than you yesterday.

I'm not above changing my vote to go the wind does but I'm happy to start the day off with a commitment.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:03 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:now is the time that the rebels will be making their moves. I suspect the rebels will be most vocal now and leading the march against the imperials. It is already evident to me who these people are.
I love posts like this. If the rebels are evident, why not enlighten us so that we may lynch them?

Mortis' weird posts do make me somewhat suspicious of him. But then, what it goes back to for me is that KK is highly quiet and many of the posts he has made are suspicious. Highly quiet + limited posts are suspicious seems like a pretty good formula for rebels.

I thought I was implicating him enough, but yes LM is the person that is rising ever higher with each post. They have taken a hit pretty much each time and now is the time for their move.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:22 pm

Honestly if there is a grand conspiracy, they deserve the win.

Ignoring that possibility, I think KK is probably the best target for now. I see Bubbles activity as earnest. KKs inactivity is louder, to my ears, than Bubbles activity.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:55 pm

I'm looking forward to Remus' "I see dead people" update - I think that's the only other piece of information that's due to come in (other than people's posts).

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:10 pm

Who was on Unagi's list before the rebels offed him? He was doing a darn good job of pointing out Rebel scum before they offed him. Have to go back and look.

Before looking, though, I still find Mr Bubbles post deletion and subsequent defenses of himself questionable when he was nowhere near being lynched.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:15 pm

Unagi's last post before he was eliminated.

Unagi wrote:Also, before I might die...

I think Mr B and Semaj are prime suspects.

I am more (like I believe El Guapo expressed) satisfied with Coops and LM's imperial leaning.

I am basically still satisified with Isgimnur's play.

KK - seriously not looking good for him.

Grund - very odd play, I'm baffled. First - it doesn't help the good guys if he's been a goog-guy Royal Guard this whole time (or equiv,). So that then leads one to ponder that he's provable... that didn't seem to pan out. So one is left with "Rebel". And Wookie at that, so that it's a miss - as we would all be so inclined to want him lynched. But , this is a game of deception on some level, right - so the obvious play then seems suspect... is he not Wookie... Cup-in-front, etc... In any case - it just also seems like he didn't really do any favors to the Rebels with not playing either. So. I don't get it.

theohall would be a player I would maybe look more at, only because he's sorta drifted away recently... but that would only be if Mr B and Semaj and KK and Grund all came up blank....

During the past couple of events, someone actually named bad guys right before being killed and everyone tended to ignore their last words. I submit it is time to listen this time. And with Mr Bubbles and Semaj being Unagi's top 2 suspects, I am perfectly happy voting for

Mr Bubbles

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:32 pm

KeneticKid

If the votes aren't there for KK, I'll go Bubbles, but I think KKs silence is more important to address.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:48 pm

Lassr was a Guard.

I could vote Bubbles.
I'm not sure I want to vote KK, this is just too (crap, is it to?) typical of play to be read as Rebel. Problem is that it is also typical of all his play regardless of role and I don't want to lose to an "absent" Rebel.
Isgrimnur's vote of KK yesterday strikes me as exceptionally weird - sort of like a "look over here" type post - as such I may be able to be talked into voting him but if KK is a (non-Wookie) Rebel then I would think Isgrimnur would drop off my list.
Odd that nobody really mentions Semaj but I find him off my mind as well. When he is around he seems Empire but then he has also dropped since the death of Unagi. Grasping at straws for why El Guapo and I live while Unagi doesn't could be right here.
El Guapo, theohall, coop all seem Empire to me.
As for LordMortis, if you go back and reread day 1 I think you will feel much better about his being Empire. I have nearly as much trust in my read on him right now as I do in my belief that El Guapo is Empire.

I'm going to withhold my vote for a bit to avoid giving them a chance to bum rush anyone but I am likely to vote Bubbles.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:18 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote: I suggest others do the same, but I suspect LM is a rebel trying to go after easy targets.
Absolutely I am. KK has done nothing to advance the game and has been absent enough during voting that his absence detrimental. While I find it hard to believe both he and grund were rebel, it's still preferable to many an alternative.

Higher than that is you much like Grund was the easy target higher than you yesterday.

I'm not above changing my vote to go the wind does but I'm happy to start the day off with a commitment.

I would expect no less from a rebel. Again the more you talk the more I am convinced you are evil.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:18 pm

Here's the thing with KK. First there's his silence. This is the sum total of his posts over the past 15 pages (probably 25 pages, but I haven't gone back that far yet):

Kenetickid wrote:Had some IRL stuff pop up. Reading to catch-up. Will vocalize ideas come morning.

Kenetickid wrote:Checking in.

RMC

but, by all means waste your shot for hte day and kill me if you think Unagi is right. He may be vader but he is way off targetting me for the day kill.

Kenetickid wrote:
I'm always willing to claim not to be the bad guy, but from what i have seen lately the more aggressive people defend themselves the more likely they get killed anyway.

Nuff said either way.

Bear in mind that the RMC vote above is on the re-vote, when RMC was a 100% proven (Lando) rebel. Aggressively unwilling to contribute.

Second, speaking of votes, let's see where he is (and isn't) on the lynch votes:

1. Chaosraven - Imperial - Day 1 Lynch (KK voted to lynch CR)
3. Scoop20906 - Rebel - Day 2 Lynch (KK voted to lynch - obvious vote as amongst other things Scoop had essentially admitted being a rebel)
6. Newcastle - Rebel - Day 3 Lynch (KK did not vote)
9. RMC - Rebel - Day 4 Lando failed Lynch (KK did not vote)
9. RMC - Rebel - Day 5 Lando re-lynch (oh hey! Now KK shows up to vote for the 100% proven rebel, and make no other contributions)
11. Grundbegriff - Rebel - Day 6 Lynch (KK did not vote again).

So...we've got 1 vote for an imperial, 2 votes for rebels that were already 100% or nearly 100% proven, and 3 non-votes. That's some record. My favorite part is showing up for the RMC re-lynch but not the first lynch.

Not that I'm not suspicious of Bubbles too, but he's got a much, much better voting record (plus contributions and all).

So... Kenetikid

edit: sorry, 3 non-votes.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:21 pm

KeneticKid

. I suspect I am the rebels number 1 target, so I don't mind this heat, but if I can take out one more rebel before I'm offed that is fine. I suppose taking me out has it's merits, for one I won't be a distraction anymore and the Imperials can learn a lot about my death when my loyalty has been proven, so while I won't self-vote I don't see my death as horrible.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:27 pm

FYI I believe that's n-2 on KK. My generally cautious nature says that we should hold up a bit in case KK has anything to say and to give people more time to discuss.

Though having gone back and checked KK's record I do feel pretty good about my vote ATM.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:29 pm

Kenetickid

He can be given time to speak at n-1 as easily at n-2.

[ezmate]I'll be out of pocket this evening, watching Captain America.[/ezmate]

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:42 pm

Remus West wrote:Lassr was a Guard.

Boo! Wanted to know Grund's role. So much more valuable IMO.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:50 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Remus West wrote:Lassr was a Guard.
Boo! Wanted to know Grund's role. So much more valuable IMO.

Why? Lassr could potentially have had a role they could spoof. What was Grund's role going to tell us?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:51 pm

Vote Day 7

4 Remus West --------->
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Kenetickid
8 Theohall ---------------> Mr. Bubbles
11 Coopasonic -----------> Kenetickid
12 El Guapo --------------> Kenetickid
13 Lord Mortis -----------> Mr. Bubbles
17 Semaj ----------------->
18 Kenetickid ------------> Kenetickid
20 Isgrimnur ------------->

Mr. Bubbles 2 <------------ Lord Mortis, Thoehall
Kenetickid 4 <------------- Coopasonic, El Guapo, Mr. Bubbles, Isgrimnur

Dead:
1. Chaosraven - Imperial - Day 1 Lynch
2. Stessier - Imperial - Night 1 Kill
3. Scoop20906 - Rebel - Day 2 Lynch
4. Lassr - Imperial - Night 2 Kill
5. Qantaga - Rebel - Day 3 Choked by Vader
6. Newcastle - Rebel - Day 3 Lynch
7. Triggercut - Imperial - Night 4 Kill
8. Pr0ner - Imperial - Night 5 Kill
9. RMC - Rebel - Day 5 Lynch
10. Unagi - Imperial - Night 5 Kill
11. Grundbegriff - Rebel - Day 6 Lynch
12. Tru1cy - Imperial - Night 6 Kill

Dead Tally - 7 Imperials, 5 Rebels

Players Remaining 9
Majority is 5
Deadline: Monday August 8, 9PM EST

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:51 pm

Kenetickid

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:53 pm

It is Now Night - Voting is Closed

Vote Day 7

4 Remus West ---------> Kenetickid
7 Mr. Bubbles ----------> Kenetickid
8 Theohall ---------------> Mr. Bubbles
11 Coopasonic -----------> Kenetickid
12 El Guapo --------------> Kenetickid
13 Lord Mortis -----------> Mr. Bubbles
17 Semaj ----------------->
18 Kenetickid ------------> Kenetickid
20 Isgrimnur ------------->

Mr. Bubbles 2 <------------ Lord Mortis, Thoehall
Kenetickid 5 <------------- Coopasonic, El Guapo, Mr. Bubbles, Isgrimnur, Remus West

Dead:
1. Chaosraven - Imperial - Day 1 Lynch
2. Stessier - Imperial - Night 1 Kill
3. Scoop20906 - Rebel - Day 2 Lynch
4. Lassr - Imperial - Night 2 Kill
5. Qantaga - Rebel - Day 3 Choked by Vader
6. Newcastle - Rebel - Day 3 Lynch
7. Triggercut - Imperial - Night 4 Kill
8. Pr0ner - Imperial - Night 5 Kill
9. RMC - Rebel - Day 5 Lynch
10. Unagi - Imperial - Night 5 Kill
11. Grundbegriff - Rebel - Day 6 Lynch
12. Tru1cy - Imperial - Night 6 Kill

Dead Tally - 7 Imperials, 5 Rebels

Players Remaining 9
Majority is 5
Deadline: Monday August 8, 9PM EST

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Alright then. I suppose it was unlikely that KK was going to say anything anyhow. Actually, let me do that for him since he didn't have the time:

Fake Kinetickid wrote:Robble robble robble! Big mistake! You'll regret this when I come back imperial! I'm a lowly guard! Robble robble!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:55 pm

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:56 pm

Remus West wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
Remus West wrote:Lassr was a Guard.
Boo! Wanted to know Grund's role. So much more valuable IMO.
Why? Lassr could potentially have had a role they could spoof. What was Grund's role going to tell us?

Sorry, I keep forgetting the spoofing angle.

There are only 5 rebel roles that haven't been pinned to bodies and since they are all specials, there's never an "oh, another guard" disappointment. I think there is value in being able to pin roles to rebel corpses.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:56 pm

It's more fun, anyhow.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:57 pm

I suppose I should have been more careful with that. I read the n-2 comment and didn't even think about it. I don't feel bad though. Either way this will give me a very strong feeling on Isgrimnur.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:59 pm

Can I get a program for the next game as to which trains I should follow blindly and which I should avoid in order to min/max my suspicious-osity?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:00 pm

Follow the trains that lead to wolves blindly, and avoid the trains that lead to villagers. Reverse if you are a wolf.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:01 pm

That implys a level of foreknowledge that the mods are usually loathe to divulge beforehand.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:02 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Can I get a program for the next game as to which trains I should follow blindly and which I should avoid in order to min/max my suspicious-osity?

This makes me feel like you know KK is a miss. If he comes up Rebel you would have been looking extremely Imperial but you went straight to the "I'm going to look suspicious" angle.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:14 pm

Rereading day 1 knowing what we know now my vibe says

Bubbles
but KK is making a play toward 1st with his prowling and pulling from scoop as things were heating up.
Izzy Moves up dramatically especially why he defends himself blues bothers style but stays on the same course of not staying off course.

Semaj drops off my top three.

And here is how the vote stands when trying to back off Scoop and stale mate the day on day one

Unagi 2 <----------------- Tru1cy, El Guapo
Tru1cy 2 <---------------- Qantaga, Grundbegriff
Semaj 1 <----------------- Mr Bubbles
Scoop20906 7 <---------- Stessier, Lassr, Pr0ner, Remus West, Lord Mortis, Semaj, Chaosraven
Pr0ner 1 <---------------- Scoop20906
Triggercut 2 <----------- Isgrimnur, Unagi
Chaosraven 6 <---------- Kenetickid, Triggercut, RMC, Coopasonic, Newcastle, Theohall

Also reading convinces me we keep pushing Bubbles and letting him down, which I hate. But then I know I get blinded by direction I choose and then don't see another way... which is precisely why I like someone else to spearhead.

Also I remember thinking coop very guilty on day one and so far he's looking the most innocent of all of us.

Theo really stands out as going up and down and up down and that troubles me but not as much as the game feelers at the beginning. It may have to do with the on again off again play between scoop to raven but I can also empathize with wanting to lynch someone while time is ticking away.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:15 pm

bb2112 wrote: 18 Kenetickid ------------> Kenetickid

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:15 pm

Holy shit. What the hell happened while I was reading day one?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:19 pm

Remus West wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Can I get a program for the next game as to which trains I should follow blindly and which I should avoid in order to min/max my suspicious-osity?
This makes me feel like you know KK is a miss. If he comes up Rebel you would have been looking extremely Imperial but you went straight to the "I'm going to look suspicious" angle.

I don't know he's a miss. Odds are that he is, as he's pretty much a random shot, and Imps outnumber rebels. But it seems to devolve into the same old story. Even when I get in on a lynch that results in positive results, I don't seem to get credit for it. I don't agitate, I rarely lead, and even when I attempt to do so, I am rarely followed.