OO Werewolf League signups and standings! (Season 1)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:35 pm

See the other thread for more detailed explanations of what's going on here if you like.

For now, this is the thread to sign up for participating in the Octopus Overlords Werewolf League's inaugural season. We'll have 5 matches of a very traditional, vanilla Werewolf game: 9 players divided into two teams of 7 Villagers and 2 Wolves. Players will be tracked over the course of these five games based on a scoring system to determine a league champion over the course of 5 matches. Feel free to sign up even if we're well over 10 players; that's a nice problem to have and we'll figure it out. Feel free to sign up even if you can't play in the first match or two. We'll track scoring averages as well as cumulative numbers.

For now, the OOWWL Participants:
1. triggercut
2. stessier
3. Isgimnur
4. theohall
5. pr0ner
6. Newcastle
7. Lassr
8. Qantaga
9. Scoop20906
10.Unagi
11.Remus West
12.purge
13.RMC
14.Grundbegriff
15.
etc:

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:35 pm

(reserved for standings)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:35 pm

One of the Commissioners shall post a thread for each specific match in a season in the format of "S01M01" (to let everyone know the season and match in progress) with a "WWL" tag. The first 10 players to sign up will participate in that match.

1. One player will be chosen at random to moderate the game, unless one player signing up specifically requests the moderator role.

2. The remaining 9 players shall play in the game.

3. The moderator will choose 2 players using random.org to play the roles of the werewolves. The moderator will designate one as Werewolf #1 and the other as Werewolf #2.

4. The moderator will choose 1 player using random.org from the remaining 7 to play the role of the seer.

5. The game opens with an assumed NPC death and awareness by the "Village" that there are werewolves among them.

6. Each turn of the game will be designated by a day of the week. The game opens on a Monday Day turn.

7. Day turns are open for discussion amongst the players. The day turn ends when one player is voted to be executed by the Village. The execution takes place, the executed player is removed from the game, and the remaining players are told whether the executed player was a villager or a werewolf. If the village executes its Seer, the players will only be told that a villager was executed. The end of day reveal shows only team, not role.

8. Villagers may not PM or discuss the game elsewhere at any time.

9. Werewolf players may PM one another, (or conversely communicate on a WW forum.)

10. Night turns begin after the execution and reveal of team during a day turn.

11. During the night, the players may talk in forum if they like.

12. During the night turn, the Werewolves will select one player to kill, and PM this choice to the moderator. If the werewolf players cannot agree on a target, at the moderator's discretion he may designate werewolf #1 to make the final selection.

13. During the night turn, the Seer may scan a single player to determine that player's team alignment. The Seer will PM his scan choice to the moderator, and will be told "Bubba is a villager" or "Bubba is a Werewolf".

14. The Moderator will hold the result of the Seer's scan in abeyance until he is sure that the Seer has not been the target of the werewolves in the night. The night time turn sequence is as follows:

a.) Werewolves turn in their attack target and the Seer turns in his scan target.
b.) Werewolf kill action resolved.
c.) If Seer remains alive, he is informed of his scan result

15. Game ends when either all wolves are killed (Village victory), or there are only villagers equal to the number of Wolves at the start of a Day turn.

16. Monday day turns will be allowed 96 hours from start of game to arrive at a majority on a particular player to test by execution. Subsequent turns will be allowed a maximum of 72 hours from the announcement of nighttime victim and thus commencement of the day turn. The following conditions apply:

a.) If the Village are unable to reach a majority on the player to be tested by execution, the day turn shall be closed by the Moderator, and the game will advance to the night phase with no players executed that turn.
b.) Saturdays and Sundays shall be counted as one-24 hour time block, instead of two.
c.) American holidays will be excluded from the time blocks. The Commissioners may rule that certain US "Monday" holidays (Labor Day, etc.) cause the entire preceding weekend to be excluded as well.
d.) In the interest of fairness, the Commissioners shall have the power to "stop the clock" in the event of forum outages, UFO invasion, or other Acts Of God.

17. The Moderator needn't add flavor text for carrying out executions and revealing night kills. He may if he likes, but such embellishment helps keep the unique-ness of the regularly-scheduled, larger-scaled theme games.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:37 pm

I'm in.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:56 pm

Doesn't vanilla werewolf have 1 seer per game?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:30 pm

IN!!!!

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:39 pm

pr0ner wrote:Doesn't vanilla werewolf have 1 seer per game?

Waaaaaait for the rules. Waaaaait for the rules.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:10 pm

triggercut wrote:
pr0ner wrote:Doesn't vanilla werewolf have 1 seer per game?
Waaaaaait for the rules. Waaaaait for the rules.

I'm too fast!

Oh, and in.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:26 pm

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:30 pm

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:47 pm

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:08 pm

pr0ner wrote:
triggercut wrote:
pr0ner wrote:Doesn't vanilla werewolf have 1 seer per game?
Waaaaaait for the rules. Waaaaait for the rules.
I'm too fast!

Oh, and in.

Yea and verily, the whippet-like speed of Corey Patterson....

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:43 pm

I friggin can't resist this.

IN

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:53 pm

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:10 pm

triggercut wrote:
pr0ner wrote:
triggercut wrote:
pr0ner wrote:Doesn't vanilla werewolf have 1 seer per game?
Waaaaaait for the rules. Waaaaait for the rules.
I'm too fast!

Oh, and in.
Yea and verily, the whippet-like speed of Corey Patterson....

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:08 pm

I'm in.

Don't count me for the first game.

purge · Post by **purge** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:37 am

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:58 pm

Well this kind of died.

We have a scoring system (albeit not perfect). We have a mod for round 1. We have players. What are we waiting for again?

Oh, and I can play in the first game btw. I wasn't going to play while I was on vacation and playing in another game, but both have ended (for me anyway).

Yes, yes, I know, thank you Remus.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:33 am

bb2112 wrote:Well this kind of died.

We have a scoring system (albeit not perfect). We have a mod for round 1. We have players. What are we waiting for again?

Oh, and I can play in the first game btw. I wasn't going to play while I was on vacation and playing in another game, but both have ended (for me anyway).

Yes, yes, I know, thank you Remus.

We are waiting for the current non-league game to have more than a couple of deaths, so those involved in the league game aren't necessarily dual-hatting it.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:53 pm

theohall wrote: We are waiting for the current non-league game to have more than a couple of deaths, so those involved in the league game aren't necessarily dual-hatting it.

Got it. Thanks for the clairification!

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:11 pm

I'll throw my hat into the ring, I suck, but then everyone else can feel better about themselves when they are better than me.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:29 am

bumping for signup on season 1 match 1 opening tomorrow at 10am EDT!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:11 pm

j'y suis

purge · Post by **purge** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:33 pm

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:48 pm

purge wrote:

If Remus is unable to run match 1, I'll Mod it and you can have my spot!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:20 pm

triggercut wrote:
purge wrote:
If Remus is unable to run match 1, I'll Mod it and you can have my spot!

I'm planning on getting it started (PMs out and night begun) tomorrow. That way the game should begin in earnest Monday.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:29 pm

I'll be happy to mod Game 2, or any games in the season, as needed.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:44 pm

I wouldn't mind modding a game, either.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:58 pm

Remus West wrote:
triggercut wrote:
purge wrote:
If Remus is unable to run match 1, I'll Mod it and you can have my spot!
I'm planning on getting it started (PMs out and night begun) tomorrow. That way the game should begin in earnest Monday.

You rule!

Thanks for running Match 1, and good luck to everyone who'll be on my team!

purge · Post by **purge** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:06 am

triggercut wrote: You rule!

Thanks for running Match 1, and good luck to everyone who'll be on my team!

Big team or small team?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:30 pm

Discussion time....

Should intentional "skips" be allowed?

I am against it.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:52 pm

theohall wrote:Discussion time....

Should intentional "skips" be allowed?

I am against it.

The only way to stop it is if the person with the most votes gets offed, or random.com in case of a tie. Remus is right, if we leave it to a time limit like in the last game, I would just have waited it out, and was fully prepared to do so.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:57 pm

bb2112 wrote:
theohall wrote:Discussion time....

Should intentional "skips" be allowed?

I am against it.
The only way to stop it is if the person with the most votes gets offed, or random.com in case of a tie. Remus is right, if we leave it to a time limit like in the last game, I would just have waited it out, and was fully prepared to do so.

Then we should probably institute either "most votes" or "random.org for ties" to prevent it, IMO.

As it stands, if the village is willing to gamble the next round, they could just "skip" the first two days and let the Seer reveal, assuming the Seer doesn't get killed. This seems to be against the spirit of the game.

Had this been in place prior, Remus could have possibly won the last game with the forced lynch.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:24 pm

I'd be all for "most votes" or if tied then the one that got to the most votes first, or last, or random.org between the ones that are tied.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:00 pm

I think I'd be for random.org over "most votes" because "most votes" could end with a Wolf dead. The Village should only get that benefit if they do it by Majority vote. Random.org with the wolves ineligible seems like a fitting punishment.

purge · Post by **purge** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:27 pm

stessier wrote:I think I'd be for random.org over "most votes" because "most votes" could end with a Wolf dead. The Village should only get that benefit if they do it by Majority vote. Random.org with the wolves ineligible seems like a fitting punishment.

I disagree. If the village as an organism has put forth one or more likely candidates (lets say 4 majority, two candidates tied at 3 each) by a deadlock then random.org could be used to change a random persons vote to the other party (as flavor).

Remus -> NewCastle
Grund -> NewCastle
RevH -> NewCastle

NewCastle ->Grund
Purge -> Grund
ChaosRaven -> Grund

BB2112 -> None

In this example, if the deadline is reached, then the random.org will select one player to change their vote in the deadlock. If BB was selected with no vote, or no relevant vote, then it gets used one more time to determine who he aligns with (of the six voters).

This way it never is about the accused, but instead about the random nature of will under pressure.

That being said, the skip option should be out for this season but be looked at in the future as a possible penalty for all members. This means those who are forced to sit out are not penalized while the active players are.

I mentioned this in the pool at the end of game 5's slide - the spirit of survival is not in the villagers - it's like villager = martyr. That doesn't help anyone, and I think that we do need to be living and trying to figure it out. Being willing to be tested to prove yourself isn't something someone is going to do IRL, and while a simple self-vote isn't an invalid option, a self-vote at N-1 means that you've decided to kill yourself, and move your team closer to failure. Mods discretion of course, but I think that needs to be looked at.

While I understand NC's intent to simplify the game noise, his self-vote really hurt the village. I was convinced that he was human, and I would not have voted for him. His suicide didn't help us in that I was JUST about to have switched over to test Remus as it was around then that I was re-reading.

I think both the missed deadline, and suicides, need to be present (Everything is Permitted - goddamned Assassin's Creed is still in my head) but there is consequence to actions. Whether it be all living participants (including wolves) on a skip get a point docked. This includes hitting a deadline, even if there is a random event that forces a lynch.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:11 am

purge wrote:
stessier wrote:I think I'd be for random.org over "most votes" because "most votes" could end with a Wolf dead. The Village should only get that benefit if they do it by Majority vote. Random.org with the wolves ineligible seems like a fitting punishment.
I disagree. If the village as an organism has put forth one or more likely candidates (lets say 4 majority, two candidates tied at 3 each) by a deadlock then random.org could be used to change a random persons vote to the other party (as flavor).

Remus -> NewCastle
Grund -> NewCastle
RevH -> NewCastle

NewCastle ->Grund
Purge -> Grund
ChaosRaven -> Grund

BB2112 -> None

In this example, if the deadline is reached, then the random.org will select one player to change their vote in the deadlock. If BB was selected with no vote, or no relevant vote, then it gets used one more time to determine who he aligns with (of the six voters).

This way it never is about the accused, but instead about the random nature of will under pressure.

I'm not sure I fully understand, but as long as a Wolf doesn't die as a result of No Majority, I'm fine with it. It's up to the Villagers to actively end the slaughter - not get lucky and have fate step in by way of random.org to save them.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:12 am

stessier wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand, but as long as a Wolf doesn't die as a result of No Majority, I'm fine with it. It's up to the Villagers to actively end the slaughter - not get lucky and have fate step in by way of random.org to save them.

+1

purge · Post by **purge** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Let me restate my idea, in different words.

IF the deadline is reached,
- IF no majority is reached,
-- IF there is one person with the highest votecount (but not enough for majority)
-- THEN (at least one) randomly selected non-participant is added to it to bring it to majority.
-- ELSE IF there is a tie
-- THEN a randomly selected living person will determine who wins the tie.
--- IF the tie-breaker was involved in the voting for one of the two candidates: they switch sides.
--- ELSE IF that person was a non-participant in the tie
--- THEN a second random.org roll will determine which side they add to.
--- FI
-- FI
- FI
FI

All persons (including the tie-breaker) not involved in the successful lynch mob BEFORE THE DEADLINE will be penalized a point for holding up the game.

This idea stands alone from my objection to Wolves being excluded from the random nature. I will address that in my next message.

purge · Post by **purge** » Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:53 pm

Remus West wrote:
stessier wrote:I'm not sure I fully understand, but as long as a Wolf doesn't die as a result of No Majority, I'm fine with it. It's up to the Villagers to actively end the slaughter - not get lucky and have fate step in by way of random.org to save them.
+1

Bah. You're wrong, and here's why:

The ideas of a lynch mob aren't always reasoned, and there is no reason a wolf could not be killed accidentally. Now you say "but this is an advantage for village, no?"

NO. The seer, or a villager on the tail of a wolf could also be killed, thus losing the momentum gained. They are not exempt from this risk, and the wolves have just as much, if not MORE responsibility to keep the game moving.

Think of it this way ... would the sheep be killing themselves if the wolves weren't hunting them? It is the wolves mandate to survive, and the only way they can ensure a daytime survival is getting the sheep to put the nooses over their own heads. Letting the wolves sit back and ride the game to deadline will breed a certain behaviour.

Also, the whole point of wolves being human during the day and victim of a lynch mob is that they are just as vulnerable.

The nature of the lynchee is irrelevant. The mob has spoken, and whether seer, wolf, villager or otherwise does not matter in the slightest.

Even if you were to case aside my random selection process and simply said : "Random.ORG decides who dies!" the wolves should still be in that selection. By the very nature of the numbers, they're already less likely to be killed. Giving them a free pass breeds bad behaviour and adds silence and stalling as a strategy.

[aside]Also, the word behaviour has a U in it, spellcheck, so piss off.[/aside]