[WW] Fellowship of the Ring II - Conclusion

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:06 am

You take the weekend off and this is what happens? Man.. remind me not to do that again, but on the good side I've been entertaining guests for the last two weeks and they are gone. Anyway... I would have agreed with hunting orc, so no worries on my part. Tru1cy is a proven and we move on.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:08 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:You take the weekend off and this is what happens? Man.. remind me not to do that again, but on the good side I've been entertaining guests for the last two weeks and they are gone. Anyway... I would have agreed with hunting orc, so no worries on my part. Tru1cy is a proven and we move on.

tru1cy is mostly proven. He could still be Gollum.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:17 pm

Sorry I was out of the mix there. Long weekend and when I tried to log in before work, OO was down. So to be sure I understand here, Tru1cy, being captured , has to be either a hobbit or Gollum? He cant be Frodo since the Felllowship controls the ring and its extremely doubtful he would have passed it. Am I right to assume that evil can never kill him, only capture him? Thus he is immune to death unless lynched? Im new at this variant and am trying to grasp the subtleties of the situation.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:40 pm

Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:51 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.

Not necessarily true. If they target a hobbit or gollum, they capture, but if the target is one of the Big People, then as I read it the result is a kill.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:05 am

triggercut wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.
Not necessarily true. If they target a hobbit or gollum, they capture, but if the target is one of the Big People, then as I read it the result is a kill.

thats an odd mistake for grund to make...usually he's much more precise than that...good catch triggercut

and anyone wonder why they went after truicy first? as far as i can recall truicy hadnt said anything yet to point which way...in fact did he say anything?

so...why truicy as the night 1 capture?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:32 am

Newcastle wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.
Not necessarily true. If they target a hobbit or gollum, they capture, but if the target is one of the Big People, then as I read it the result is a kill.
thats an odd mistake for grund to make...usually he's much more precise than that...good catch triggercut

Yes. Good catch, triggercut.

and anyone wonder why they went after truicy first? as far as i can recall truicy hadnt said anything yet to point which way...in fact did he say anything?
so...why truicy as the night 1 capture?

Because random is as random does.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:31 am

Newcastle wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.
Not necessarily true. If they target a hobbit or gollum, they capture, but if the target is one of the Big People, then as I read it the result is a kill.
thats an odd mistake for grund to make...usually he's much more precise than that...good catch triggercut

and anyone wonder why they went after truicy first? as far as i can recall truicy hadnt said anything yet to point which way...in fact did he say anything?

so...why truicy as the night 1 capture?

modus operandi... I guess. I think they took my silence as a sign. Here's the question... who is more vocal about my silent play and would use it to get me out the game early..

By the way I wasn't being silent cause I might have been a special, I was actually silent cause it was the weekend.. Anyway, I would seriously cast my gaze at those who have a problem with me being usually silent

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:13 am

Qantaga wrote:I think it wise to let coopasonic, Mr Bubbles, pr0ner, rshetts2, and triggercut check in before we close the chapter.

Checking in, a wee bit late. Sorry. When the weekend started we were still waiting for night and I didn't even think about it all weekend (blame the Fable 3 steam deal).

I'm still trying to figure out the rules. This one is a bit complicated and the layer of obfuscation on top doesn't help (Chapters, Journeys, Scouts). It's not that I don't appreciate the flavor, it's just confusing.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:40 am

coopasonic wrote:
Qantaga wrote:I think it wise to let coopasonic, Mr Bubbles, pr0ner, rshetts2, and triggercut check in before we close the chapter.
Checking in, a wee bit late. Sorry. When the weekend started we were still waiting for night and I didn't even think about it all weekend (blame the Fable 3 steam deal).

I'm still trying to figure out the rules. This one is a bit complicated and the layer of obfuscation on top doesn't help (Chapters, Journeys, Scouts). It's not that I don't appreciate the flavor, it's just confusing.

Journey - night
Chapter - day
Scout - lynch (not required to lynch as long as someone is Captured and there is a non-corrupt Free People).

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:50 pm

tru1cy wrote:
Newcastle wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Evil has a stackable Capture and a one-time Imprison, but no kill.
Not necessarily true. If they target a hobbit or gollum, they capture, but if the target is one of the Big People, then as I read it the result is a kill.
thats an odd mistake for grund to make...usually he's much more precise than that...good catch triggercut

and anyone wonder why they went after truicy first? as far as i can recall truicy hadnt said anything yet to point which way...in fact did he say anything?

so...why truicy as the night 1 capture?

modus operandi... I guess. I think they took my silence as a sign. Here's the question... who is more vocal about my silent play and would use it to get me out the game early..

By the way I wasn't being silent cause I might have been a special, I was actually silent cause it was the weekend.. Anyway, I would seriously cast my gaze at those who have a problem with me being usually silent

the only person who comes to mind about being annoyed at your silent play is unagi...i'd have to think it about it....i've kind of gotten use to it, and learn to read proner & your sparse verbal musings. But unagi is the main one that comes to mind...there's another that seems to be scratching my memory; but cant put a name to it right now....

just a very peculiar kill choice is all

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:52 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Qantaga wrote:I think it wise to let coopasonic, Mr Bubbles, pr0ner, rshetts2, and triggercut check in before we close the chapter.
Checking in, a wee bit late. Sorry. When the weekend started we were still waiting for night and I didn't even think about it all weekend (blame the Fable 3 steam deal).

I'm still trying to figure out the rules. This one is a bit complicated and the layer of obfuscation on top doesn't help (Chapters, Journeys, Scouts). It's not that I don't appreciate the flavor, it's just confusing.

its a different mind set to get use to be honest....our main goal is to make sure the ring stays within the fellowship and we have a safe mt. doom disposal of it (need to reread the disposal of it)....so its a bit different than your standard WW. With hobbits being captured; it also ups everyones survivability here...so good news!

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:25 am

Chapter 2 – The Mines of Moria

There were many recesses cut in the rock of the walls, and in them were large iron-bound chests of wood. All had been broken and plundered; but beside the shattered lid of one there lay the remains of a book. It had been slashed and stabbed and partly burned, and it was so stained with black and other dark marks like old blood that little of it could be read. pr0ner lifted it carefully, but the leaves crackled and broke as he laid it on the slab. He poured over it for some time without speaking.

”It is grim reading,” he said. ”I fear their end was cruel. Listen! We cannot get out. We cannot get out. They have taken the Bridge and second hall. Frar and Loni and Nali fell there.The Watcher in the Water took Oin. We cannot get out. The end comes, and then drums, drums in the deep. They are coming.”

”Which way shall we go?” asked Newcastle.

”Back to the hall,” answered Grundbegriff.

”The Twenty-first Hall should be on the Seventh Level, said redrun. ”That is six above the level of the Gates. Come now! Back to the hall!”

redrun had hardly spoken these words, when there came a great noise: a rolling Boom that seemed to come from the depths far below, and to tremble in the stone at their feet. Then there came an echoing blast: a great horn was blown in the hall, and answering horns and harsh cries were heard further off.

”They are coming!” cried theohall.

”We cannot get out,” said Qantaga.

”Trapped!” cried tru1cy. ”Why did we delay?”

”We must not get shut in,” said rshetts2. ”Keep the east door ajar! We will go that way, if we get a chance.”

Another harsh horn-call and shrill cries rang out. Feet were coming down the corridor. There was a ring and clatter as the Company drew their swords. For an instant Remus West looked out of the door. Arrows whined and whistled down the corridor as he sprang back.

”There are Orcs, very many of them,” RMC said. ”And some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor. For the moment they are hanging back, but there is something else there. A great cave-troll, I think, or more than one.”

There was a horn-blast and a rush of feet, and orcs one after another leaped into the chamber. The affray was sharp, but the orcs were dismayed by the fierceness of the defence. triggercut shot two through the throat. Mr Bubbles hewed the legs from under another. coopasonic and pr0ner slew many.

”Now is the time!” cried Newcastle. ”Let us go!”

But even as they retreated, a huge orc-chieftain, almost man-high, clad in black mail from head to foot, leaped into the chamber; behind him his followers clustered in the doorway. His broad flat face was swart, his eyes were like coals, and his tongue was red; he wielded a great club. Diving under Grundbegriff’s shield with the speed of a striking snake he charged into the Company and swung with his club straight at bb2112. The blow caught him on the right side, and bb2112 was hurled against the wall and pinned. Several orcs charged at him, bound him with nets, and carried him off swiftly.

”Now!” shouted redrun. ”Now is the last chance. Run for it!”

The Fellowship is carrying the Ring.

bb2112 has been captured!

Players:
1. Grundbegriff
2. redrun
3. theohall
4. Qantaga
5. bb2112 - captured
6. rhsetts2
7. Remus West
8. RMC
9. tru1cy
10. triggercut
11. Mr Bubbles
12. coopasonic
13. pr0ner
14. Newcastle

Fellowship, how will you proceed?

You may Appoint a Scout
or
Hunt Some Orc.

Majority is 7.

Deadline is Wednesday, October 19th at 9 p.m. Central European Time (GMT +1)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:05 am

Oh my goodness.

That's just too much.

*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night (assuming that they've not found our Ringbearer.)

I mean, the obvious thing to do here is Hunt Some Orc, right?

Maybe we could at least take a little time before we do that to figure out if they've got some sort of meta play going that isn't easily apparent.

bb2112, hold on a sec and we'll come get you.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:29 am

Yes, the obvious thing to do is Hunt Some Orc. Yes, we should talk some, but talking too much has it's issues.

1) The Servants are already conversing among themselves
2) Us talking more gives them more info than that which they are gathering on their own
3) #2 results in helping the Servants make more informed choices.

The consequence for us talking less is the Ringbearer tossing the ring blind, however, with two known hobbits, the Ringbearer won't be tossing as blind as he did during the prior Fellowship's travels.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:40 am

Another silent player nabbed...

Hunt some Orc

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:29 am

triggercut wrote:*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we

we?

we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night

What?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:32 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
triggercut wrote:*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we
we?

we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night
What?

Seriously. What?

I'd like to see your remark explained in terms of which faction is doing what, triggerpoke.

Meanwhile, let's pause to note that the chance of finding yet another Hobbit/Gollum is good but not great. However, they're coordinated and they actually scan with the Witch-King before Hunting, so they get two guesses.

This means that there's a decent chance -- a more-than-decent chance -- that bb2112 is Frodo, scanned by WK and then nabbed.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:53 am

Grundbegriff wrote:This means that there's a decent chance -- a more-than-decent chance -- that bb2112 is Frodo, scanned by WK and then nabbed.

For this to be true, bb2112 - as Frodo, would have had to have passed the Ring since we still control it. Why would he have done that? You make no sense.

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:57 am

Well this is an interesting turn of events. Did the Servants just grab another Hobbit, or did they luck upon Gollum?
If BB2112 is indeed Frodo, as suggested, then he has passed the ring. If thats the case, we really cant risk leaving him captured, because someones going to want to toss the ring back to him. If he wasnt Frodo, then we should try to free him because that will give Frodo another potential Hobbit to toss the ring to.
Of course, if he's Gollum, then we need to know that as well because Frodo will need to be sure who its safe to throw the ring to.
I just realized, that being Frodo is a pretty stressful position in this game. One false move and he can singlehandedly screw the Fellowship. Since The Servants have pegged two "capture-able" specials, odds are they will start knocking off non- hobbits and limit Frodos protection in numbers even more.
Im not completely solid on the rule set but I dont really see much of an upside to leaving BB2112 in captivity and trying to randomly hit a servant at this point.
For now I say we Hunt some Orc

, unless someone has a good reason why we shouldnt, that I am missing.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:43 am

I think that we hunting orcs is the only option at this point. Talking is fine, but what is there to talk about.

I am a little worried that Grund seems to be trying to stir things up, and is making strange and wrong insights.

And to suggest that BB = Frodo? What? As has already been stated, then that implies that he passed the ring off..Well..That makes no sense and I suggest that we keep a close eye on Grund.

And I will put my vote on Hunt some Orc

so we can free what might be a hobbit, or gollum.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:04 am

Sounds like dumb (bad) luck on the part of Team Evil.

4 hobbits
6 free people
3 team evil
1 gollum

5 in 11 chance of hitting a hobbit/gollum the first night.
4 in 10 chance the second night.

Not long odds by any stretch.

Hunt some Orc

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:17 am

Seriously, Grundbegriff. What are you talking about?

triggercut wrote:*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night (assuming that they've not found our Ringbearer.)

I mean, the obvious thing to do here is Hunt Some Orc, right?

Maybe we could at least take a little time before we do that to figure out if they've got some sort of meta play going that isn't easily apparent.

bb2112, hold on a sec and we'll come get you.

triggercut wrote:*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night (assuming that they've not found our Ringbearer.)

They've = Sauron's minions. we is the Fellowship. I see nothing wrong with the way that reads. triggercut is simply saying he thinks they, Sauron's minions, have really bad luck OR they, Sauron's minions, are using a bizarre strategy in which we, the Fellowship, are continually allowed to Hunt Some Orc, instead of them, Sauron's minions, actually knocking off Free People at night.

I get it that you think the second part is supposed to be triggercut saying he is a Servant, but I don't buy it. Just like I didn't buy triggercut jumping all over your earlier post, simply because you didn't mention the part which did not apply to hobbits. I believe you two are mis-guided in going after each other.

As to Frodo possibly passing the Ring - he could've passed it to tru1cy with all the risks inherent in that decision, but I doubt he did and suspect bb2112 is another hobbit/Gollum - same as tru1cy.

I think we need to look at Remus West a little more if we do decide to send a Scout. He was the first one to attempt "slowing down" the Hunt Some Orc train on our first Journey, when it was blatantly clear the only correct choice was to Hunt Some Orc, and who needs to acquire information the most? Servants, Frodo, or whomever is carrying the Ring. The Servants have done us a favor by identifying two potential hobbits/gollum. Let's not do them any favors in return.

Hunt Some Orc

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:19 am

Grund, what yourself.

"We" meaning "us in the Fellowship".

And what are you going on about them having the ring when:

Lagom Lite wrote:
The Fellowship is carrying the Ring.

bb2112 has been captured!

Hunt Some Orce

(And then send Grund out scouting pretty soon.)

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:23 am

No way Frodo passed the ring, yet. He shouldn't do that until/unless he thinks he's been made. Remember, Frodo's the only ring-bearer (other than Gollum, I guess) who can carry the ring past a chapter/journey cycle without succumbing to the dark side.

Now, what *is* nice is that Frodo will soon have two folks to hand the ring off to, and soon they'll each have two to hand off to as I believe a new ringbearer is told in private who gave him the ring. It isn't perfect yet, but our Hobbits have options.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:26 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
triggercut wrote:*Another* hobbit (or perhaps Gollum)? That's either spectacularly bad luck by Sauron's minions...or they've got some wacky strategy in which we
we?

we Hunt Some Orc in lieu of killing one of the Free People at night
What?
Seriously. What?

I'd like to see your remark explained in terms of which faction is doing what, triggerpoke.

Meanwhile, let's pause to note that the chance of finding yet another Hobbit/Gollum is good but not great. However, they're coordinated and they actually scan with the Witch-King before Hunting, so they get two guesses.

This means that there's a decent chance -- a more-than-decent chance -- that bb2112 is Frodo, scanned by WK and then nabbed.

What's obviously happened is that they've scanned tru1cy and bb2112 both before each became a target. Both came up as not holding the ring. Unfortunately for our servants, both also ended up being Hobbits, just not the Hobbits They're Looking For.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:30 am

....and I think I see what Grund saw in my post, that was actually me making an error. For some reason I had a fleeting idea that Team Shadow would be told Hobbit or Free People and that for some reason they were targeting Hobbits, knowing that we'd obviously free them in lieu of trying to whittle down their numbers by sending out Scouts...which I justly termed a "wacky" strategy, because I sure couldn't understand why they'd be doing that.

So yeah. Makes Grundbegriff look less suspicious for wondering what I was nattering about.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:39 am

triggercut and Grundbegriff have both now made comments about the bad guys scanning before targetting at night. I was assuming this game worked the same as the majority of others we have done in that all orders are submitted all at one time and then processed in order. Is there somewhere in the rules that I missed saying they get results before choosing their next action? I can see bb2112 as having been scanned but that first night had to have been done blind.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:48 am

Remus West wrote:triggercut and Grundbegriff have both now made comments about the bad guys scanning before targetting at night. I was assuming this game worked the same as the majority of others we have done in that all orders are submitted all at one time and then processed in order. Is there somewhere in the rules that I missed saying they get results before choosing their next action? I can see bb2112 as having been scanned but that first night had to have been done blind.

I didn't realize it until Grund said it and I went over to the turn sequence at night, and yes, that's the order that things get done, or at least appears:

Journey sequence of events:

Gollum guides.
Gollum steals.
Boromir scans
Gandalf scans.
Witch-King searches.
Aragorn protects.
Servants of the Eye hunts.

Unless the Witch-King's result is held in abeyance, it appears as if the Shadow gets to make targeted attacks each night.

Lagom: does the Witch King get his scan result before the Servants pick their target for kill/capture?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:49 am

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:This means that there's a decent chance -- a more-than-decent chance -- that bb2112 is Frodo, scanned by WK and then nabbed.
For this to be true, bb2112 - as Frodo, would have had to have passed the Ring since we still control it. Why would he have done that? You make no sense.

I have to agree with Remus here. What Grund says makes no sense. Why would bb2112, as Frodo, risk passing off the ring to tru1cy, who could be Gollum?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:05 am

Read over these Servant rules again:

The Rules wrote: Uruk-Hai
The Uruk-Hai are given command by Saruman to seek out and capture the Hobbits, alive and unspoiled, for they carry an Elvish weapon. Each Journey, the Uruk-Hai may Hunt one player. If target player is Free People, that player is killed. If target player is a Hobbit, Frodo or Gollum, that player is captured. Hunting may be disrupted by Aragorn. The Uruk-Hai is told if and what kind of action was disrupted by Aragorn (Kill, Capture).

Saruman
As a one-time ability, Saruman may choose to Imprison a player. He may do this at any time. Imprisoned players are removed from the game just as if they were Captured and are prohibited from using any special powers such as protections or scans. Any player, even Free People or Servants may be Imprisoned. Upon Saruman's death, Imprisoned players are freed. Imprisoned players may not be freed in any other way.
* If the Uruk-Hai is slain, Saruman inherits the capture/kill power.

Witch-King
Once each Journey, the Nazghul Witch-King of Angmar may search for the One Ring by targeting a player. The Witch-King will determine whether that player holds the One Ring or not. This action may not be disrupted by Aragorn.
* If both the Uruk-Hai and Saruman are slain, the Witch-King inherits the capture/kill power.

They don't learn hobbit, free person or anything else from a scan. All they learn is Ringbearer or not Ringbearer. The only way they learn Free Person or Hobbit is via Capture/Kill of the Uruk-Hai.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:13 am

Just to keep everyone aware - we are at N-1 on Hunt Some Orc. Not suggesting anyone withdraw their votes, because I would prefer we don't give the Servants any more info than necessary. Let them keep finding hobbits for us.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:42 am

Hunt Some Orc

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:50 am

triggercut wrote:
Remus West wrote:triggercut and Grundbegriff have both now made comments about the bad guys scanning before targetting at night. I was assuming this game worked the same as the majority of others we have done in that all orders are submitted all at one time and then processed in order. Is there somewhere in the rules that I missed saying they get results before choosing their next action? I can see bb2112 as having been scanned but that first night had to have been done blind.
I didn't realize it until Grund said it and I went over to the turn sequence at night, and yes, that's the order that things get done, or at least appears:

Journey sequence of events:

Gollum guides.
Gollum steals.
Boromir scans
Gandalf scans.
Witch-King searches.
Aragorn protects.
Servants of the Eye hunts.
Unless the Witch-King's result is held in abeyance, it appears as if the Shadow gets to make targeted attacks each night.

Lagom: does the Witch King get his scan result before the Servants pick their target for kill/capture?

My point was not the order things get done but the apparent assumption both you and Grund seem to imply regarding the question you put in red. I had assumed that, as typical, the results of orders were not given until all orders were given. You both seemed to assume they had the results of the scan before they chose their attack. Really means nothing unless Lagom says they do get the answer first. Then it becomes much more interesting since it shows you both had implied knowledge that things were not being run in the ordinary fashion. I couldn't find anything in the rules to suggest orders would be processed differently that typical. I asked about it though because I don't put it past myself to have missed it. I didn't read that far doown the rules post.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:52 am

Qantaga wrote: Hunt Some Orc

I wish you hadn't done that yet although I suppose it wouldn't matter since either way Lagom answers we would still be hunting Orc rather than chancing a scouting mission.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:59 am

Remus West wrote:
Qantaga wrote: Hunt Some Orc

I wish you hadn't done that yet although I suppose it wouldn't matter since either way Lagom answers we would still be hunting Orc rather than chancing a scouting mission.

Why are you so concerned about us freeing hobbits? This is twice you seemed to have not wanted that to happen - in spite of your Chapter 1 vote.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:12 am

Crazy, so in two successive days they have gotten gollum or the hobbits on each day. That is crazy. As they say pech gehabt.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 am

theohall wrote:I think we need to look at Remus West a little more if we do decide to send a Scout. He was the first one to attempt "slowing down" the Hunt Some Orc train on our first Journey, when it was blatantly clear the only correct choice was to Hunt Some Orc, and who needs to acquire information the most? Servants, Frodo, or whomever is carrying the Ring. The Servants have done us a favor by identifying two potential hobbits/gollum. Let's not do them any favors in return.

I appear to be missing something that everyone else posting can see. The main three evil know who each other are. Boromir is searching for the ringbearer and is the fourth member of team evil. Gollum is a wildcard, but more likely to do evil than good.

Team evil would love to know who are hobbits and who are free people, so they can scan hobbits and kill free people.

Team good, should be looking for who are members of team evil.

The easiest way for team evil to win:

Lagom Lite wrote: As a one-time ability, Saruman may choose to Imprison a player. He may do this at any time. Imprisoned players are removed from the game just as if they were Captured and are prohibited from using any special powers such as protections or scans. Any player, even Free People or Servants may be Imprisoned. Upon Saruman's death, Imprisoned players are freed. Imprisoned players may not be freed in any other way.

So, at some point, Saruman grabs the ringbearer. The only way to free the ring is to identify and kill Saruman.

The idea that team evil is busy scanning one player and than grabbing that player is silly. Team evil is going for as much knowledge as they can gain in one night. They are scanning one, and grabbing a second player.

So, we're in a big hurry to hunt orc every turn - so we'll have as many players as possible at end of game, and team good will have as little knowledge about each player as possible, so team evil will learn less . Really? Feels like we're working to keep team good fat, dumb, and happy until team evil strikes.

BTW, we're up to three times this game that Grund has posted misinformation (failures to understand the rules). At this point, I'm pretty convinced he's using "post bad knowledge, see who corrects" to help team evil weed out Free People from Hobbits. Folks might want to think twice about correcting Grund's mistakes.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:54 am

I'm assuming that there's a good chance Frodo's got the ring.

By Team Shadow finding hobbits--yes they're narrowing down their target field, but also they're giving all hobbits a list of guys to safely hand the ring off to. It's an interesting dichotomy, but ultimately I think it helps the Fellowship more than it helps the Shadow. We're trying to run out the clock on them. One piece of their information stays constant and good: "We captured Bubba instead of killing him, so Bubba is a Hobbit." The other piece of info they get is completely in flux. The Witch King may know that Bubba (who is revealed to be a Hobbit in the next turn sequence) doesn't have the ring *this* turn, but that information gets more likely to be bad information with each chapter that goes by.

BTW--it isn't THAT crazy that they've found Hobbits on the first two cards they turned. There are 14 players. Team evil is 3 of them. That leaves 11 players. 3 are Hobbits, 1 is Frodo, 1 is Gollum. They had a 5-in-11 chance of hitting Hobbit on the first night, and a 4-in-10 chance the next. Tonight that chance drops markedly down to 3-in-9.

And....huh. I just realized that if Team Shadow did what I suggested they may have done above (namely scan Bubba, and upon finding Bubba ring-less, they attack him) that they've totally misplayed things. Guessing then that that *isn't* what they did, which presents us with more dire consequences. Fellowship, we need to talk.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:01 pm

[quote="redrunSo, at some point, Saruman grabs the ringbearer. The only way to free the ring is to identify and kill Saruman.

The idea that team evil is busy scanning one player and than grabbing that player is silly. Team evil is going for as much knowledge as they can gain in one night. They are scanning one, and grabbing a second player.

So, we're in a big hurry to hunt orc every turn - so we'll have as many players as possible at end of game, and team good will have as little knowledge about each player as possible, so team evil will learn less . Really? Feels like we're working to keep team good fat, dumb, and happy until team evil strikes.[/quote]

When they hunt they learn Hobbit/Gollum or eliminate a free person. The also would learn if the captured has the ring based on possession when it turns to day.

When they scan they learn Ringbearer or not.

If we scout/lynch we are more likely to hit one of our own than theirs based purely on numbers, much like Princess Bride. There are so few of them. I'm not sure I would be in a hurry to lynch when we have a choice. We've been lucky to have the choice these first couple days.

They have done us the favor of identifying two potential hobbits and Gandalf will be able to get more detail on that.