[WW] Fellowship of the Ring II - Conclusion

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:50 pm

Journey 7 – The Black Gate of Mordor

The two vast iron doors of the Black Gate under its frowning arch were fast closed. Upon the battlement nothing could be seen. All was silent but watchful. They were come to the last end of their folly, and stood forlorn and chill in the grey light of early day before towers and walls which they could not assault with hope, not even if it had brought thither engines of great power, and the Enemy had no more force than would suffice for the manning of the gate and wall alone.

No choice was left them but to play their part to its end. Before them towards Mordor lay like a moat a great mire of reeking mud and foul-smelling pools.

”Come forth!” rshetts2 cried. ”Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him. For wrongfully he has made war upon Gondor and wrested its lands.”

There came a long rolling of great drums like thunder in the mountains, and then a braying of horns that shook the very stones and stunned men’s ears. And thereupon the middle door of the Black Gate was thrown open with a great clang, and out of it came an embassy from the Dark Tower.

He it was that now rode out, and with him came only a small company of black-harnessed soldiery, and a single banner, black but bearing on it in red the Evil Eye. Now halting a few paces before the Captains of the West he looked them up and down and laughed.

”Is there anyone in this rout with authority to treat with me?” he asked. ”Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!” he mocked, turning to the Company with scorn. ”Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!”

Drums rolled and fires leaped up. The great doors of the Black Gate swung back wide. Out of it streamed a great host as swiftly as swirling waters when a sluice is lifted. From the host of Mordor there went up a jeering yell. Dust rose smothering the air, as from nearby there marched up an army of Easterlings that had waited for the signal in the shadows of Ered Lithui beyond the further Tower. Down from the hills on either side of the Morannon poured Orcs innumerable. The men of the West were trapped, and soon, all about they grey mounds where they stood, forces ten times and more than ten times their match would ring them in a sea of enemies.

Mr Bubbles was kept among them in chain and collar. The fighting set him free. Sauron had taken the proffered bait in jaws of steel, for meanwhile, a small number of little creatures had sneaked around, through a back-passage known to few…

Mr Bubbles was freed!

Players:
1. Grundbegriff
2. redrun
3. theohall of the Free People, Slain by Bureaucracy
4. Qantaga - a Servant of the Eye, Slain by the Fellowship
5. bb2112
6. rshetts2
7. Remus West - a Servant of the Eye, Slain by the Fellowship
8. RMC
9. tru1cy
10. triggercut
11. Mr Bubbles
12. coopasonic
13. pr0ner
14. Newcastle

Gollum, will you guide a player?
Gollum, will you steal from a player?
Boromir, will you scan a player?
Gandalf, will you scan a player?
Witch-King, will you scan a player?
Aragorn, will you protect a player?
Servants of the Eye, will you hunt a player?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:54 pm

This is it. The beginning of the end. Keep your heads down little hobbitses.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:33 pm

Oh so it's like that!

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:35 pm

crap he can talk again. evil you know what to do.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:40 pm

Oh no you don't. I've been violated by Shelob and who knows what else.. I'm not going back. Sam was giving me some interesting looks too when he woke me. Not sure what that was about.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:54 pm

Is it secret? Is it safe? Who has the ring?

Beyond that, we've entered the time when all masks can be removed. There are one last set of night orders, after which the game is pretty much over.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:00 pm

i'll be curious to see the outcome here; hopefully them hobbits can do a good set of ring tosses!

go go go hobbit

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:06 pm

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:11 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
coopasonic wrote:The hobbits coming forward would help with that conundrum and best to do it before anyone dies so there are fewer questions. We'll still have too many hobbits and since Gandalf is unlikely to make it two more journeys, not enough scans to clear that up.
coopasonic is definitely not Gollum, for Gollum would not have been first on the block to advocate this. coop is probably Eowyn, judging by the walk.

Er... as I was saying, we should definitely Scout coopasonic before it's too late.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:42 pm

Trying to cover your bases before it's all over, Grund?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:58 pm

coopasonic wrote:Trying to cover your bases before it's all over, Grund?

Just making fun of myself, in case your "hobbitses" was as hinty as it looked.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:08 pm

I am not gollum. Please do not throw the ring to me in the morning.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:27 pm

Referring to this. I do like my original reasoning, though. Were you Gollum, you'd have only yourself to blame for missing that opportunity.

Anyone else looking forward to this?

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:56 am

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:51 pm

Chapter 7 – The Cracks of Doom

They were in a long cave or tunnel that bored into the Mountain’s smoking cone. But only a short way ahead its floor and the walls on either side were cloven by a great fissure, out of which the red glare came, now leaping up, now dying down into darkness; and all the while far below there was a rumour and a trouble as of great engines throbbing and labouring.

The light sprang up again, and there on the brink of the chasm, at the very Crack of Doom, stood the Ringbearer, Grundbegriff, black against the glare, tense, erect, but still as if he had been turned to stone.

”Master!” cried triggercut. rshetts2, tru1cy and bb2112 was right behind him.

Then Grundbegriff stirred and spoke with a clear voice, indeed with a voice clearer and more powerful than the company had ever heard him use, and it rose above the throb and turmoil of Mount Doom, ringing in the roof and walls.

”I have come,” he said. ”But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!” And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from sight. tru1cy gasped, but he had no chance to cry out, for at that moment many things happened.

Something struck tru1cy violently in the back, his legs were knocked from under him and he was flung aside, striking his head against the stony floor, as a dark shape sprang over him. He lay still and for a moment all went black.

And far away, as Grundbegriff put on the Ring and claimed it for his own, even in Sammath Naur the very heart of his realm, the Power in Barad-Dur was shaken, and the Tower trembled from its foundations to its proud and bitter crown. The Dark Lord was suddenly aware of him, and his Eye piercing all shadows looked across the plain to the door that he had made; and the magnitude of his own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his enemies were at last laid bare. Then his wrath blazed in consuming flame, but his fear rose like a vast black smoke to choke him.

From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars Sauron’s mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, bereft of will, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overpowering force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desparate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazghul Witch-King Newcastle, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom.

Players:
1. Grundbegriff
2. redrun
3. theohall of the Free People, Slain by Bureaucracy
4. Qantaga - a Servant of the Eye, Slain by the Fellowship
5. bb2112
6. rshetts2
7. Remus West - a Servant of the Eye, Slain by the Fellowship
8. RMC
9. tru1cy
10. triggercut
11. Mr Bubbles
12. coopasonic
13. pr0ner
14. Newcastle

To be concluded…

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:59 pm

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:03 pm

Conclusion

tru1cy groped forward, and then he saw a strange and terrible thing. triggercut on the edge of the abyss was fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe. To and fro he swayed, now so near the brink that almost he tumbled in, now dragging back, falling to the ground, rising, and falling again. And all the while he hissed but spoke no words.

Suddenly tru1cy saw triggercut’s long hands draw upwards to his mouth; his white fangs gleamed, and then snapped as they bit. Grundbegriff gave a cry, and there he was, fallen upon his knees at the chasm’s edge. But triggercut, dancing like a mad thing, held aloft the Ring, a finger still thrust within its circle. It shone now as if verily it was wrought of living fire.

”Precious, precious, precious!” triggercut cried. ”My Precious! O my Precious!” And with that, even as his eyes were lifted up to gloat on his prize, rshetts2 drew his sword and leaped upon him, cutting the Ring from his hand. triggercut stepped too far, toppled, wavered for a moment on the brink, and then with a shriek fell. Out of the depths came triggercut’s last wail Precious, and they were gone.

There was a roar and a great confusion of noise. Fires leaped up and licked the roof. The throbbing grew to a great tumult, and the Mountain shook. tru1cy ran to Grundbegriff and picked him up and carried him out to the door. And there upon the dark threshold of the Sammath Naur, high above the plains of Mordor, towers fell and mountains slid; walls crumbled and melted, crashing down; vast spires of smoke and spouting steams went billowing up, up, until they toppled like an overwhelming wave, and its wild crest curled and came foaming down upon the land. And then at last over the miles between there came a rumble, rising to a deafening crash and roar; the earth shook, the plain heaved and cracked, and Orodruin reeled. Fire belched from its riven summit.

The skies burst into thunder seared with lightning. Down like lashing whips fell a torrent of black rain. And into the heart of the storm, with a cry that pierced all other sounds, tearing the clouds asunder, Newcastle came, shooting like flaming bolts, as caught in the fiery ruin of hill and sky they crackled, withered, and went out.

”Well, this is the end, tru1cy,” said a voice by his side. And there was bb2112, and there was Grundbegriff, pale and worn, and yet himself again; and in his eyes there was peace now, neither strain of will, nor madness, nor any fear. His burden was taken away.

Spoiler:

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Wow!

Nice game Lagom. It was very entertaining and a lot of fun. Thanks for the great game universe and for a wonderful job of modding it for us.

While theohall deserves all the highest accolades for his role as Gandalf in exposing Remus and I, the true MVP of the game is rshetts2 in his starring role as Aragorn.

Not only did he save the day with his protection of Grund at the very end, he saved theohall on the night before theo's reveal. theo would have died before he could have revealed Remus and I, had rshetts2 not successfully protected him the night before.

Congrats to all those in the service of the Fellowship, but a huge tip of the cap to theohall and a big, shiny MVP trophy to rshetts2!

Edit: Spoiler tags removed, since his above spoilered game outcome can be inferred from Lagom's subsequent game comments.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:14 pm

Spoiler:

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:17 pm

Well, this game was a failure.

The reason I say so is because of the inherent weakness of the Hunt Some Orc mechanic. It wasn't as visible last game but this time it was summoned by a perfect storm.

What happened was this: Servants hunted 2 Hobbits in a row, proving them and allowing the Fellowship to Hunt Some Orc instead of lynching (discussing). Then, Gandalf went and found two Servants, making the next few days a no-brainer as well. It sort of went on like that, which made the game dull and linear, and very frustrating for team Sauron. While moaning and gnashing of teeth is canonical for black and tormented Servants, it really wasn't this moderator's intent to inflict actual anguish.

This is the fix to the Hunt mechanic I'd propose:
* Each Journey, Servants of the Eye may attempt to either Kill or Capture a target player. If a Hobbit player is targeted for Kill, the Hobbit will not be Killed. If a Free Person is targeted for Capture, the Free Person will not be Captured.

It's a simple fix, but should guarantee that the Servants won't feel frustrated for "choosing poorly", while forcing the Fellowship to lynch in the early game.

...

Also, the Gollum abilities flat out didn't work. Sorry about that, trig.

I'd propose to replace the Gollum abilities with this:
* Each Journey, Gollum may attempt to Kill a target player. If the Hobbit player is targeted, the Hobbit will be Killed. If the Killed Hobbit is also the Ringbearer, Gollum will become the new Ringbearer. If a Free Person or Servant of the Eye is targeted, or Gollum was blocked by Aragorn's protection, Gollum will be killed instead.

...making gollum a high-risk high-reward player.

...

The third player I felt sorry for was Boromir (pr0ner!). I'd like some suggestions on how to change his role - he's basically a Sorcerer - how are Sorcerers normally designed to be fun to play?

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:19 pm

Oh, and I've enabled everyone to read and post in the Spoiler and Servant forums att http://ooww.freeforums.org.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:34 pm

I don't think the fix you had in mind is enough. The way you put it the Servants are still crippled in that their actions have a good chance of failure without regards for Aragorn (who won this game for the good guys as in spite of everything going their way had he not made the two saves he did they would have lost). It won't be as bad as it was this game where our actions benefited the good guys much more than any other outcome possibly could have the first two nights but failed actions are still failed actions and thus you are gimping side Evil severely.

As for Boromir, all you need do to fix him scan for the Ring and steal it should he find it. Thus Evil gets the Ring AND he joins the Evil forum.

I do think you should also adjust the Ring passing such that Evil may never pass the Ring (what self respecting Evil would willingly give up that sort of power?) and if they are lynched while in possession of it then it gets sent to a random player (of non-free person ilk, either a Hobbit or Evil - or a Hobbit that then becomes Evil due to over exposure).

rshetts2 · Post by **rshetts2** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:23 pm

First off, I thought the game was awesome! No surprise there eh? Very nice job with the modding, especially on the fly and fantastic job with the write ups, LL
I understand that a perfect storm of scans really helped bork the game mechanics but even with the Fellowship getting things going there way and hitting some serious luck on the way, the servants had the game won if it were not for a lucky block at the end. I had to choose between 5 targets and hit the right one. Any other choice and we would have lost. My point is you will have to look at balance before you tilt this game much more.
For example if you set it so hobbits can be killed, then the fellowship could be toast after a couple of days. By day 7 they will likely be out of pass options or be so limited that the servants will be able to easily pick out the ring bearer. Alot of what happened here in this game was luck and thats going to happen with any rule set. Go overboard and cripple the Fellowship and you will make the game unplayable for good.

Im not saying any of the ideas are bad, there are definitely rolls that need revising. Im just pointing out that it wont take much at all to make it impossible for the fellowship.

Once again, nice job everyone, especially LL for keeping things rolling and under control and at the same time keeping the game interesting. At the end, in spite of the Fellowships luck every faction had a good shot at a win.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:06 am

For once, my role actually played into me being quiet - why is Boromir going to hunt some orc when his team has the ring? Plus, there was no easy way that I saw to get corrupted.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:15 am

rshetts, your choices as Aragorn in this game were seemingly supernatural. Outstanding!

Lagom, I wouldn't call the game a failure, as you did, but it clearly needs tweaking.

Let me think on it. And I hope all others will share their ideas. I'd especially like to hear what triggercut has to say, since he was the frogman.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:28 am

rshetts2 is the MVP, clearly.

Scanning Remus West was the usual Day One random guess. Just got lucky.
Scanning Qantaga was based on the way he interacted and then didn't interact with Remus West.

The one thing I should have done different - let everyone blather some more before announcing the known bad guys, but that reveal was going to happen no matter what during that Chapter.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:57 am

theohall wrote:rshetts2 is the MVP, clearly.

Scanning Remus West was the usual Day One random guess. Just got lucky.
Scanning Qantaga was based on the way he interacted and then didn't interact with Remus West.

The one thing I should have done different - let everyone blather some more before announcing the known bad guys, but that reveal was going to happen no matter what during that Chapter.

I wish you would have waited as I would have come out as Gandalf before you then and had been planning on naming you and redrun as Evil. My first claim may have gotten you lynched or - much more likely - forced Aragorn into backing your claim due to the protection that night which would have allowed Newcastle to take him out.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:17 am

Remus West wrote:I don't think the fix you had in mind is enough (...) Servants are still crippled (...) failed actions are still failed actions (...) you are gimping side Evil severely (...) it is not fair, Master! *shhh-ka* We need broader shields, my Lord! *wheeze*

I disagree.

Even though team Evil were unlucky with captures, extremely unlucky with Gandalf and Aragorn, found and imprisoned Mr Bubbles only to have Saruman lynched, you came down with a 50/50 chance to win at the end. That's pretty OP on your side actually, and I'm considering removing the Imprison ability to compensate for the new rules change.

I feel team Evil simply didn't have their eye on the ball (the Ring) this game - and failed to make a convincing play. You could have, for example, Imprisoned Mr Bubbles on Day 1 which would have forced the fellowship to lynch. That said, I understand that you were unlucky and confused about the rule-set, and Newcastle made a good point about writing a small "how-to play" guide in addition to the rules.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:58 am

Much like the Tron game I enjoyed mostly because of the atypical play mechanics. They were initially confusing and the game didn't play out optimally (unless you were the fellowship), but it was still nice to experience something different (and I think that win brings me back up to .500 despite having nothing to do with it).

I think Boromir and Gollum should have claimed hobbit. There was enough suspicion of Grund's claim that I think it would have had a shot. Gandalf clearly wasn't going to survive once he came out and he couldn't scan everyone. I think part of the reason it felt too easy is because we didn't have any extra hobbit claims.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:09 am

I agree with Coop 100%. The game mechanic was different and that made it interesting. Even thought the fellowship had just one logical choice every turn, it being the first time it was tough to know how to manage everything. I also agree, if/when we play this again, Boromir and Gollum will play differently adding in a new complexity level.

Evil was extremely unlucky. The only thing that would have made it even worse for them was if Theo actually scanned 3 evils instead of 2 evils and 1 villager. Otherwise it was a perfect storm of crap for evil. That being said, they still had an amazingly good chance to pull off a win at the end.

And I stand corrected Rhetts2 gets the MVP, just eeking out Theo. Both played amazing.

For my part, I was just glad that I was a proven and not actively trying to be killed by both sides for once.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:17 am

bb2112

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:40 am

Lagom Lite wrote:
Remus West wrote:I don't think the fix you had in mind is enough (...) Servants are still crippled (...) failed actions are still failed actions (...) you are gimping side Evil severely (...) it is not fair, Master! *shhh-ka* We need broader shields, my Lord! *wheeze*
I disagree.

Even though team Evil were unlucky with captures, extremely unlucky with Gandalf and Aragorn, found and imprisoned Mr Bubbles only to have Saruman lynched, you came down with a 50/50 chance to win at the end. That's pretty OP on your side actually, and I'm considering removing the Imprison ability to compensate for the new rules change.

I feel team Evil simply didn't have their eye on the ball (the Ring) this game - and failed to make a convincing play. You could have, for example, Imprisoned Mr Bubbles on Day 1 which would have forced the fellowship to lynch. That said, I understand that you were unlucky and confused about the rule-set, and Newcastle made a good point about writing a small "how-to play" guide in addition to the rules.

The Fellowship had exactly ZERO decisions to make the entire game. If a Hobbit was captured, free him. If a Hobbit wasn't captured scout an Evil although that last piece was due to the scans but the scans by theohall and save by rshetts2 are part of any game with a Seer and protector - I don't think you do anything or worry about them at all. The problem was that every action we took not only accomplished nothing for our side it removed any need for risk from the Fellowship and thus aided them. They gained every piece of information we gained and also gained a "free" pass for each day along with it. The adjustment you suggest simply means that Evil will be much more likely to simply fail at an action. They would gain the knowledge of Free Person or Hobbit depending on the action they attempted but they would still have a failed action. Their "attack" basically becomes another type of scan. As for a 50/50 chance of winning at the end I don't think you are doing your math correctly since all Hobbits were out Newcastle had to choose among all of three possible targets for receiving the ring.

I will say though that the write ups were spectacular. As they were last time as well.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:54 am

But the Fellowship also played basically a perfect game. In that situation, you're supposed to get ROFL stomped.

If the scans were not Evil or just proved Hobbits...if Evil had found Free Persons....If the conversion had happened

Anyone of those would have completely changed things. You could also go through a game as perfect Evil and show that the Fellowship doesn't have a chance. Not sure that means the game is imbalanced.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:07 am

A fun game, and interesting to see a four-sided game (since Boromir was mostly on his own for most of the game).

A couple of notes:

Ring passing. From the evil side it's tough, since any scans they get are stale before they can act on them. From the good side it is a nightmare. First, finding hobbits to pass to - we got lucky this game. Second - once the hobbits were out, evil only needed to get their hands on the ring and it was game over - just start passing the ring amoung the free people. Even if the hobbits were not outed, evil still could have started the passing - every free person they hit joins the evil forum until they control the daytime voting block. Even if evil (Gollum or team evil) did get their hands on the ring and got scouted, odds were that the ring would go right back to evil (and perhaps corrupt a free person in the process). So, I'd suggest removing the ability of anyone but a hobbit from freely passing the ring, and never use random.org to determine who gets the ring - somehow, force only teammates (evil) or hobbits (good) as possible folks to pick up the ring.

Boromir - move his scan to daytime? It'd get a lot more powerful. It'd put Boromir in a hard place if he ever did find the ring - he'd almost need to sacrifice himself to be useful...

Captured or imprisioned ringbearer - made it a timing issue for Gollum's steal. He knows where the ring is, and he knows that he can grab if he is fast enough.

I worry about reading too much into this game since it ended up inbalanced via play - evil/Gandolf scans and captures controlled a lot of decisions. Not sure how it would play out with current rules if replayed, since I think we'd see a much different pattern.

Still, it's probably the best game out there. I survived. Not sure I've done that before.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:14 am

stessier wrote:But the Fellowship also played basically a perfect game. In that situation, you're supposed to get ROFL stomped.

If the scans were not Evil or just proved Hobbits...if Evil had found Free Persons....If the conversion had happened

Anyone of those would have completely changed things. You could also go through a game as perfect Evil and show that the Fellowship doesn't have a chance. Not sure that means the game is imbalanced.

The scans themselves were just part of any game. Thats not what was unbalanced. What was unbalanced was that Evil's actions advanced the cause of the Fellowship much more than the cause of the Servants - even ignoring the scans and save. Evil was outnumbered and left guessing on what to do while the Good guys had the majority and knowledge of what they needed to do. Typical balance is that Evil is outnumbered but knows what they need to do and Good has the numbers but is working mostly blind.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:19 am

Try not to capture Hobbits. It seems counterintuitive, but it is the best strategy for Evil.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:20 am

When going over the rules - again and again - the one thing that stood out to me is Boromir. With the current rules, Boromir can scan for Frodo - and then what? He has no ability to do anything at all other than knowing which player is Frodo. Seeing as in the story, he actually attempted to sieze the Ring and almost succeeded, he should have the ability to seize the Ring once he finds Frodo. Not sure if it should be a simultaneous action or any time after discovery action. Simultaneous seems like the best option, due to the whole being Captured thing preventing actions.

I think the Fellowship just got incredibly lucky with the choices of scans and protections. This still came down to Newcastle having a 50/50 shot of winning at the end considering he knew tru1cy had the Ring after Journey 6. IMO, that is plenty balanced.

I am curious. Why didn't the Servants Imprison Mr Bubbles immediately? You guys found Frodo on Journey 1, yet waited to Imprison him when Saruman can Imprison at any time? This would have removed the Fellowship's obvious play of Hunting Some Orc. Had you imprisoned Mr Bubbles, we would know Mr Bubbles was Frodo, had the Ring, and had to be freed - with the only means of freeing him being the lynch. The only negative to this - if Frodo does get freed, Gollum knows who Frodo is and would get the opportunity to steal IF we found Saruman. A bigger benefit for team evil to this - the hobbits are forced to start playing pass the Ring to prevent Gollum from stealing it.

This is more balanced than it appears, IMO.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:24 am

stessier wrote:Try not to capture Hobbits. It seems counterintuitive, but it is the best strategy for Evil.

We were trying not to capture Hobbits. There is no mechanic other than capturing them for Evil to know if they are Hobbits or not. That's why our actions helped the Fellowship more than us.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:50 am

Simple fix - give Team Evil the option either capture or kill. Only kill wouldn't work on hobbits. This way free people can be captured too.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:52 am

theohall wrote:When going over the rules - again and again - the one thing that stood out to me is Boromir. With the current rules, Boromir can scan for Frodo - and then what? He has no ability to do anything at all other than knowing which player is Frodo. Seeing as in the story, he actually attempted to sieze the Ring and almost succeeded, he should have the ability to seize the Ring once he finds Frodo. Not sure if it should be a simultaneous action or any time after discovery action. Simultaneous seems like the best option, due to the whole being Captured thing preventing actions.

I agree with this.