[4OTP] Rule setting thread

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Ok, so we have 16 confirmed owners and it's time to decide on our league setting. Please vote for your preference in each category below.

League type: Fictional, Historical, Current
League structure: 4x4 divisions, 2x8 divisions
Draft: Live, round by round lists, other (explain)
Sim Frequency: once a week, twice a week, three times a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim, two game weeks per sim
Other: list any other peferences you have here or anything I may have missed
Scouting: use scouts and coaches, don't use scouts and coaches

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:27 pm

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim
Scouting: no scouts or coaches

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:30 pm

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: round by round lists
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Scouting/Coaches: Yes to Coaches, no to scouting. Both off if that's what's necessary to get scouting off.

malichai11 · Post by **malichai11** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:25 pm

League type: Historical
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: First 5 rounds live, then 2 round lists
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Scouting: no scouts or coaches

Other - Turning off the Rule 5 draft to save us 1 extra non-critical draft a year
Other - Turning on the ability to trade draft picks and recently drafted players

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:19 am

I forgot to include scouting. Added it as an option. If you've already voted please also add in votes for this too.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:58 am

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: forum draft for 15-20 rounds, then let scouts draft
Sim Frequency: three times a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim
Scouting: use scouts but not coaches

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:48 am

League type: Fictional
League structure: Doesn't matter.
Draft: Live, round by round lists, other (explain) (How do lists work? Likely that is best)
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim
Other: Minors? How deep? Market sizes? I see in 12 that you have owners relationships now. I'm uncertain how they work at this point.
Scouting: Don't know the game well enough. I would like coaches if we do anything more than one level of minor leagues.

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:26 am

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: Not sure
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Scouting: use scouts and coaches

Could someone explain how the drafting options work?

Post by **godhugh** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:35 am

League type: Current
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim
Scouting: no scouts or coaches

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:43 am

godhugh wrote:Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time

I don't know how MP works, but that could work out well. What are lists?

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:35 am

LordMortis wrote:
godhugh wrote:Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time
I don't know how MP works, but that could work out well. What are lists?

You submit a list of players for the the next x selections. So for example if we are doing two rounds by lists you would submit a list of 30-40 players or so in your order of preference and when it comes your turn to draft we go down the list and select the next available guy.

Lando · Post by **Lando** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:45 am

Although I'd prefer Historical, it looks like Fictional will carry the day. I have no preferences otherwise.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:53 am

LordMortis wrote:
godhugh wrote:Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time
I don't know how MP works, but that could work out well. What are lists?

The game allows you put picks into a draft list for each round. You just drag and drop a player into the list and the computer will take the next available player when your pick comes up. I assume people would upload 2 rounds, then the commish would sim the draft for two rounds and post a new file. Rinse and repeat.

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:07 pm

denoginizer_1 wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
godhugh wrote:Draft: First couple of rounds done on the forums then lists for two rounds at a time
I don't know how MP works, but that could work out well. What are lists?

The game allows you put picks into a draft list for each round. You just drag and drop a player into the list and the computer will take the next available player when your pick comes up. I assume people would upload 2 rounds, then the commish would sim the draft for two rounds and post a new file. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, this. My explanation made the process seem manual but it's all handled in-game from what I understand.

Ninyu · Post by **Ninyu** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:11 pm

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: round by round lists
Sim Frequency: once a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Other: I'll take the concensus. I don't know enough about the game to have an opinion
Scouting: Same as other

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:14 pm

I'll defer all of these decisions to the masses.

To me anything more historic than 20 years might as well be Fictional. Division structure matters not to me.

Alliedweasel · Post by **Alliedweasel** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:34 pm

Leauge Type: Fictional
Structure: 4x4
Draft: Round by Round list
Sim Frequency: 2 or 3 times a week
Sim Amount: If we sim 2 times a week, 2 weeks per sim....if 3 times a week 1 week per sim
Scouting and Coaching: OFF
Other: At least 3 levels of Minors, 4 would be fine as well but anything more than that gets complicated (for me at least)

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:41 pm

League type: Historical > Current > Fictional

But I don't really care. Happy to try whatever interests everyone. The reason I like playing with real players is that I get to learn something about them, even if the world is a fantasy. I'm still interested in something exotic like a Japanese league, too.

League structure: 2x8 divisions

2x8 might be interesting, but again I don't really care. The strength of 2x8 is that the best two teams per season are (presumably) guaranteed a playoff berth, therefore preventing scenarios such as a great team being denied a playoff shot due to being stuck behind a dynasty in its division. But it's really not a big distinction. Definitely prefer more divisions if we ever expand to 20 teams, though.

Also the question of whether we're going with a more traditional top 25% teams advancing or considering something else like the top 50%

Draft: round by round lists and/or forum draft

I don't want us to get bogged down in a weeks or months long draft. On the other hand, anything beyond two rounds a day I feel we might as well be auto-drafting by that point. To make scouting and draft list composition as painless as possible, I'd prefer we limit it to one round per day (or more if forum drafting/already submitted lists allow) for a period--the first x number of rounds, while we're still picking really important guys.

Sim Frequency: twice a week or three times a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim

These are related, in my mind. The more often we sim, the slower we can go. As for sims per week, this should be whatever's most convenient for the owners and commissioners. One week per sim twice per week, though, would be unbearably slow in my opinion. I want to see the league progress at a decent pace and am more interested in macro than micromanagement. Can't wait to see stats stack up over the years!

Scouting: Undecided; probably against

I honestly don't know enough about their current implementation to vote, so I defer to the rest of you. I definitely don't want some organizations to be crippled because other teams went crazy and locked up awesome coaches and scouts to long term deals.

It may be less complex to encourage "fog of war" by using a less precise set of ratings and/or potential, which is another important though perhaps less crucial element to discuss.

-------------------------------------
Talent/Potential Ratings

I'm a big fan of less being more. Especially with scouting disabled, I don't think judging a player's ability should be simple. You should have to at least consult stats. I also prefer for potential to be on a lesser scale than current ratings (e.g. potential 1-5 and current 1-10) as it should be harder to rate a player's ceiling than current ability.

That said, we may want to consider enabling a full or greater ability scale for the initial draft, as we won't have the luxury of in-game historical stats to consult yet.

Minors

Also depends on the type of league. I don't really want to bother with 5+ levels of minors even if we do go with current rosters. I'd much rather trim it down to 3-4 max. If we go fictional, isn't no more than 3 recommended? That's the way it used to be IIRC, but may have changed.

DH or no DH?

I prefer the DH, especially when we can't micromanage substitutions. There are sure to be those who dislike the DH though, so why not vary our sub-leagues, just like in real life?

Other - Turning off the Rule 5 draft to save us 1 extra non-critical draft a year

Don't really care either way; it would certainly make roster management less of a hassle by disabling it. Can be fun to have it, though, and I don't really mind adding an extra day or two to the season's progression. Whatever everyone likes.

Other - Turning on the ability to trade draft picks and recently drafted players

I think I'd prefer to disallow the trading of draft picks, for once. They're rarely valued properly, and can really wreck a franchise on either side of an unbalanced deal. But not a big deal if we're all desperate to allow it.

How long are recently drafted players unable to be traded, otherwise? Don't have a problem enabling this, as at least you know what you're getting in this case.

Baroquen · Post by **Baroquen** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:18 pm

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: Glad lists are handled in-game; Fine with forum/round-by-round lists options...
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: one game week per sim
Scouting: don't use scouts and coaches; This may have been improved in recent version(s) but I've never used it. At least not in years.

Other things people have mentioned: I like the DH rule. I'd want 3 levels of minors. I like the Rule 5 draft, but might be more annoying than actually worth in MP. Trading draft picks - I'd probably say no.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:36 pm

Rule 5 is no trouble at all with the in game draft lists. There aren't usually that many guys that people want in a Rule 5 situation anyway. But at the same time it keeps teams from hoarding plyrs in their minors indefinitely. To me scouting makes things more fun. The scouts can be set to high accuracy. But I think it makes things more interesting when everybody doesn't see all plyrs' potentials exactly the same.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:03 pm

League type: Historical
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: round by round lists
Sim Frequency: twice a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Scouting: don't use scouts and coaches

Other: I'm ambivalent towards the DH in a fictional world. 3 levels of minors (AAA, AA, A). Talent / Ratings showing no more than 1-10. I like Rule V drafts. I'd want to disable waivers since we'll have guys sitting for a week or two on the wires.

I'd like us to vote on other stuff that will impact us once we get the basic structure down (salary cap, ownership control of payroll, etc.).

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:44 pm

Kelric wrote: I'd want to disable waivers since we'll have guys sitting for a week or two on the wires.

Disable? How about setting the waiver period to one day longer than the duration of a sim?

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:50 pm

denoginizer_1 wrote:
Kelric wrote: I'd want to disable waivers since we'll have guys sitting for a week or two on the wires.
Disable? How about setting the waiver period to one day longer than the duration of a sim?

Definitely something worth discussing in detail. I always like the option of being able to legitimately dump a player via waivers. But organizing one's roster shouldn't be a pain, either.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:06 pm

Sudy Nym wrote:
denoginizer_1 wrote:
Kelric wrote: I'd want to disable waivers since we'll have guys sitting for a week or two on the wires.
Disable? How about setting the waiver period to one day longer than the duration of a sim?
Definitely something worth discussing in detail. I always like the option of being able to legitimately dump a player via waivers. But organizing one's roster shouldn't be a pain, either.

Isn't managing ones roster and dealing with waiver claims a big part for running a team in OOTP? I can't imagine turning off waivers in an OOTP league.

gellar · Post by **gellar** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:32 pm

League type: Fictional
League structure: 4x4 divisions
Draft: No preference
Sim Frequency: once a week
Sim amount: two game weeks per sim
Scouting: don't use scouts and coaches

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:34 pm

Certainly, but it's a unique challenge when you only have access to waivers and DFA once every one or two weeks. Of course, many of us have done it in online leagues before. I'm just open to the discussion.

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:03 pm

A lot of good points are being made here, great stuff. Once we nail the basics we can tackle the finer details. Let's say tomorrow night is the deadline for voting on the basics and then we'll move onto Round 2 which is the nitty gritty stuff like waivers, salary cap, and Rule 5 and such.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:22 am

Sudy Nym wrote:Certainly, but it's a unique challenge when you only have access to waivers and DFA once every one or two weeks. Of course, many of us have done it in online leagues before. I'm just open to the discussion.

I've done it before. We also have players who haven't. I can be swayed, I was just throwing it out there.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:57 am

Bueller?

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:41 pm

Kelric wrote:Bueller?

Skyrim.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:43 pm

Bueller?

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:15 pm

Here sorry. Been really busy the last few days. Will post a follow up thread either tomorrow or Tuesday.

Ninyu · Post by **Ninyu** » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:53 am

Unless we can get something going by the weekend, we might as well wait until after Thanksgiving.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:45 pm

Thanksgiving was a month ago.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:14 am

So is this thing belly up?

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:47 pm

denoginizer_1 wrote:So is this thing belly up?

I wouldn't say so. We're a little slow to get things moving here sometimes, but they eventually get started.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:17 am

I'm still in. I still haven't played 12 yet but I'm still in. I had assumed we were going to "get organized" after Turkey Day.

J.D. · Post by **J.D.** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:20 pm

Sorry, I still intend to keep things moving. Got really sick late last week and over the weekend. Better now but you guys have Turkey Day coming up so I'll get something posted in time for Monday morning when you're all happily fed.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:08 pm

I would think with the $49.95 membership dues you charged me you'd be on top of things by now.

denoginizer_1 · Post by **denoginizer_1** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:38 pm

So. Now is it belly up?