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Prague - Beta Test Run

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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:22 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Can you do me the favor of summarizing the rules in a list? I need to go run the dog before the sun sets!
Will do.
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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:14 pm

I was trying to use your original rules as a basis, but there is so much story woven into the rules that it was too difficult. So here are the powers:

Three types of roles:
  • Good Agent - non powered good
  • Good Handler - good seer
  • KIM agent - evil infiltrator/seer

Good Agents
  1. Two forums - one is infiltrated by KIM agent.
  2. Good can only post to assigned forum - no PMs allowed
  3. Login under assigned Code Name
  4. Can vote to interrogate by day using OO name in OO forum
Good Handler
  1. Two forums - one is infiltrated by KIM agent.
  2. Handler has R/W to both forums
  3. If Interrogation occurs by Day, gets a Night scan
    1. Night Scan made by OO name
    2. Night Scan reveals one True Clue randomly from targets list.
KIM
  1. Assigned to a Good Forum - has R/W access.
  2. Has R access only to other Good Forum.
  3. Has Night Scan every night.
    1. Night Scan made by OO name
    2. Night Scan reveals one True Clue randomly from targets list.
  4. Hardened Vet
    1. Can assign 0, 1, or 2 fake clues to their List.
    2. When interrogated, false clues are given first (if more than one available, chosen randomly)
    3. Third scan will reveal all True Clues
  5. May renounce access to Good Forums at any time to go to KIM forum.
  6. Both KIM agents must be in KIM forum to submit a puzzle solution.
Day Action
  1. Vote to Interrogate occurs in OO forum by OO name
  2. Majority vote reveals a Clue from Target (may or may not be True Clue depending on Target
  3. If no Majority reached, no Interrogation occurs
  4. The Third Interrogation of an Agent will either
    1. Reveal an Agent as KIM
      • A revealed KIM Agent loses access to the Good Forums and gains access to the KIM forums
    2. Kill a Good Agent
Night Action
  1. If there was a Day Interrogation, both Handlers get a Night Scan
  2. Both KIM Agents get a Night Scan
Last edited by stessier on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:20 pm

Two more things for Grund:
  1. I'm feeling a little naked here. Granted, it was my own doing, but that was when I thought I could win this way. :) I think you might to re-roll teams (although clues and powers should be able to stay put).
  2. What do you think of a "Kill Interrogation" option? What I'm thinking is that if a KIM agent is Interrogated and his first clues is false and someone knows it is false, the only way to prove it is to Interrogate two more times. That buys the KIM agent time. A KILL VOTE would act as an auto 3rd Interrogation - if the agent is KIM, both of his true clues are revealed and he is kicked out of the Good Forum. If the agent is Good, his last clue is revealed and he is killed. This gives strategic options to both Good and KIM (who could fake "finding a fake clue" one day). You'd have to really trust someone to use it, but at least it's an option. And with the paranoia so high, I think even up a man, teams won't self identify lest they hand the game to KIM.
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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:37 pm

stessier wrote:
  1. I'm feeling a little naked here. Granted, it was my own doing, but that was when I thought I could win this way. :) I think you might to re-roll teams (although clues and powers should be able to stay put).
I think people should retain the two clues they've received.
I think we should remix the team memberships.
stessier wrote:[*]What do you think of a "Kill Interrogation" option? What I'm thinking is that if a KIM agent is Interrogated and his first clues is false and someone knows it is false, the only way to prove it is to Interrogate two more times. That buys the KIM agent time. A KILL VOTE would act as an auto 3rd Interrogation - if the agent is KIM, both of his true clues are revealed and he is kicked out of the Good Forum. If the agent is Good, his last clue is revealed and he is killed. This gives strategic options to both Good and KIM (who could fake "finding a fake clue" one day). You'd have to really trust someone to use it, but at least it's an option. And with the paranoia so high, I think even up a man, teams won't self identify lest they hand the game to KIM.[/list]
How is that different from what I proposed over here?

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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:03 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
stessier wrote:[*]What do you think of a "Kill Interrogation" option? What I'm thinking is that if a KIM agent is Interrogated and his first clues is false and someone knows it is false, the only way to prove it is to Interrogate two more times. That buys the KIM agent time. A KILL VOTE would act as an auto 3rd Interrogation - if the agent is KIM, both of his true clues are revealed and he is kicked out of the Good Forum. If the agent is Good, his last clue is revealed and he is killed. This gives strategic options to both Good and KIM (who could fake "finding a fake clue" one day). You'd have to really trust someone to use it, but at least it's an option. And with the paranoia so high, I think even up a man, teams won't self identify lest they hand the game to KIM.[/list]
How is that different from what I proposed over here?
My KILL VOTE can occur on the second Interrogation. If I am reading your link correctly, they can only get rid of the KIM on the third vote. Saves Good a Day in the case where the first KIM clue is revealed to be false.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:09 pm

stessier wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
stessier wrote:[*]What do you think of a "Kill Interrogation" option? What I'm thinking is that if a KIM agent is Interrogated and his first clues is false and someone knows it is false, the only way to prove it is to Interrogate two more times. That buys the KIM agent time. A KILL VOTE would act as an auto 3rd Interrogation - if the agent is KIM, both of his true clues are revealed and he is kicked out of the Good Forum. If the agent is Good, his last clue is revealed and he is killed. This gives strategic options to both Good and KIM (who could fake "finding a fake clue" one day). You'd have to really trust someone to use it, but at least it's an option. And with the paranoia so high, I think even up a man, teams won't self identify lest they hand the game to KIM.[/list]
How is that different from what I proposed over here?
My KILL VOTE can occur on the second Interrogation. If I am reading your link correctly, they can only get rid of the KIM on the third vote. Saves Good a Day in the case where the first KIM clue is revealed to be false.
OK, so the options would be these. The group is interrogating Bubba.

On the first interrogation, Bubba yields a clue. If Bubba is non-KIM, then it's just his clue. If Bubba is KIM, then maybe it's a lie.
On the second interrogation, people can either vote for NORMAL INTERROGATION xor HARSH INTERROGATION.
--- If a majority does NORMAL on Int #2, then if Bubba is non-KIM, it's his other clue. If Bubba is KIM, then maybe it's a lie.
--- If a majority does HARSH on Int #2, then if Bubba is non-KIM, it's his other clue and he dies. If Bubba is KIM, it exposes him and his clues.
The third interrogation is automatically HARSH.

Is that what you mean?

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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:20 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:OK, so the options would be these. The group is interrogating Bubba.

On the first interrogation, Bubba yields a clue. If Bubba is non-KIM, then it's just his clue. If Bubba is KIM, then maybe it's a lie.
On the second interrogation, people can either vote for NORMAL INTERROGATION xor HARSH INTERROGATION.
--- If a majority does NORMAL on Int #2, then if Bubba is non-KIM, it's his other clue. If Bubba is KIM, then maybe it's a lie.
--- If a majority does HARSH on Int #2, then if Bubba is non-KIM, it's his other clue and he dies. If Bubba is KIM, it exposes him and his clues.
The third interrogation is automatically HARSH.

Is that what you mean?
Yes.
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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:23 pm

stessier wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Is that what you mean?
Yes.
I like it.

So then, what will induce people not to declare their team?
What will induce people to try to solve the puzzle?
What will induce people to vote?
What will induce people not to link their OO name to their code name in public?
What will induce people not to link their OO name to their code name in private?
What other supposed breakages am I forgetting?

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stessier
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:42 pm

  1. So then, what will induce people not to declare their team?
    1. Don't declare publicly because KIM would know both sides and theoretically would not repeat a scan.
    2. Don't declare privately because KIM is in your Forums and will know the sides. Some KIM scans may be duplicated, but with a lesser chance of this occurring and more likely for KIM to win sooner.
  2. What will induce people to try to solve the puzzle?
    1. Only way to win is to solve the puzzle. Or I guess be the last team standing, but that would lead to solving the puzzle.
  3. What will induce people to vote?
    1. KIM gets two Scans every Night. Only way for Good to get a scan and keep up is to Vote.
  4. What will induce people not to link their OO name to their code name in public?
    1. See 1.A
  5. What will induce people not to link their OO name to their code name in private?
    1. See 1.B
  6. What other supposed breakages am I forgetting?
    1. I can't think of any at the moment.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:51 pm

It's kind of like you made a little WW game inside a Race Against the KIM Clock game.

You use WW skills (or luck with clues) to root out the Mole. After the Mole is gone, it turns into a pool clues and solve the puzzle game.

Oh - and after the Mole is booted, should people get R/W access to both forums?

There is a case to be made that if KIM gets your Handler killed, you should suffer by not being able to privately share with the lone agent that is cut off. Although it becomes a question of who submits the solution - but you could give everyone a rank in that case and highest ranking gets to submit. Which would stink if it were the Lone Agent.

Case could also be made that with the Mole gone, the Agents would seek each other out and pool them even without the Handler.

Just a thought.
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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:02 pm

stessier wrote:Oh - and after the Mole is booted, should people get R/W access to both forums?
Definitely. In fact, is there any reason left to keep two forums per large team?
There is a case to be made that if KIM gets your Handler killed, you should suffer by not being able to privately share with the lone agent that is cut off. Although it becomes a question of who submits the solution - but you could give everyone a rank in that case and highest ranking gets to submit. Which would stink if it were the Lone Agent.
Seems like hedging someone out of the game for no good reason. What do you think of reducing from five forums to three, one per team? At least one other player lobbied for that, and the reason for subdividing may be OBEd by now.

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Re: Prague

Post by stessier » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:05 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
There is a case to be made that if KIM gets your Handler killed, you should suffer by not being able to privately share with the lone agent that is cut off. Although it becomes a question of who submits the solution - but you could give everyone a rank in that case and highest ranking gets to submit. Which would stink if it were the Lone Agent.
Seems like hedging someone out of the game for no good reason. What do you think of reducing from five forums to three, one per team? At least one other player lobbied for that, and the reason for subdividing may be OBEd by now.
I'd been thinking about it and I really can't come up with a good reason to keep the split forums. I just liked the thought. But don't have a good reason for it.
I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities. - Vaarsuvius
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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:14 pm

I shall restart the game in a new thread.

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Re: Prague

Post by Grundbegriff » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:03 pm

stessier and anyone else:

Would you please review the SIMPLIFIED rules Right Here and let me know whether they make sense?

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Re: Prague - Beta Test Run

Post by MadMax003 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:32 pm

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