BSG VIII -Assassination. Another minor human victory.

[bb2112]

Thanks to all that allowed me to drop the N vote on Remus and Chaosraven. Not only did our side win, but the satisfaction I received for putting in the kill vote on these two was immeasurable. I was being completely honest when I said I did not want to get into a war with either of these guys because I knew I would lose.

Remus West 8 --------- Revhempus, purge, stessier, theohall, Chaosraven, RMC, Unagi, bb2112
Chaosraven -- 7 ---------- Qantaga, stessier, Revhempus71, Newcastle, theohall, Austin, bb2112

The sad thing was, since I knew Q was evil, and he was the one that started the whole Chaos train, I was pretty sure Chaos by default was good. But when Chaos started going after me, I figured it might be better if Chaos died. I already had Theo hounding me, I didn't need another player going after me too. So I placed my N vote on Chaos pretty much knowing it was going to come back that he was human. It was purely a self perservation move.

And for the record, I will not be voting for either one Day 1 going forward either. Announcing it now.

[Austin]

Why was I not drugged?

You have to remember that, at the start of the game, we didn't even know that a convert was a possibility. Lassr didn't reveal that until the game had already been underway. So, we were looking at a game where we needed 5 misses to win.

I only had 3 drugs and 2 searches.

The game started at night with no meaningful discussion or any votes to go on. We were flailing around blindly on the kill and the use of Ellen's power that night.

So, if we need 5 missed lynches, why would I want to use one of my 3 drugs blindly? Everyone knew that Ellen was still alive, so there was no benefit to hide the fact that she slept with someone.

What I found interesting is that you assumed that I searched your room that first night.

If I didn't use the drug (of which I had 3) on you, why would you think I would have searched you?

There was no way I would have used a search without applying the drug, so the very fact that you knew you had been slept with should have alerted you that the search was not performed, either.

We did not know you were Doc until you self-revealed. You could have stayed hidden. Our mistake was not killing you sooner, but we were limited in that regard, too. We knew that Starbuck would protect you the second night and we didn't know who Starbuck was at that time. Then, on the third night (although I advocated killing you), the cylon majority opinion was to continue to search for Saul.

More tonight.

I guess my thinking in these things is typically, I could be scanned, lynched, whatever anytime. I have 2 searches and 3 doses, I am using them all up while I am alive. Say you didn't search me and I never came out and we lynched you on Day 1. What if you were scanned as a cylon? You would have wasted an opportunity to tell the others who I was. I am not disagreeing with your play, I just take a use it or lose it approach - okay I am disagreeing.

[Remus West]

Going after the proven meant dealing with Starbucks power.

Ellen sleeping around and us hunting the seer / Cain made more sense at the time. I think leaving starbuck as-is was fine, it was Austin that we wanted.

Had we killed Newcastle or BB instead of El Guapo, this would have ended differently, I think, as we still would have been four strong. Doc could say what he wanted, but he was still unproven by the very merit that he still lived through the night. If would have made more sense to have ellen sleep with Doc on the night that we thought we'd get the seer though so that any info died with them.

Dealing with Starbuck was a simple matter of Ellen sleeping with him/drugging him/killing him. His power would be blocked that night and gone thereafter. Then you could easily take out Doc Austin. The Saul hunt ended up killing those you needed to try and hide among and left you no where to run.

[stessier]

Going after the proven meant dealing with Starbucks power.

Ellen sleeping around and us hunting the seer / Cain made more sense at the time. I think leaving starbuck as-is was fine, it was Austin that we wanted.

Had we killed Newcastle or BB instead of El Guapo, this would have ended differently, I think, as we still would have been four strong. Doc could say what he wanted, but he was still unproven by the very merit that he still lived through the night. If would have made more sense to have ellen sleep with Doc on the night that we thought we'd get the seer though so that any info died with them.

Dealing with Starbuck was a simple matter of Ellen sleeping with him/drugging him/killing him. His power would be blocked that night and gone thereafter. Then you could easily take out Doc Austin. The Saul hunt ended up killing those you needed to try and hide among and left you no where to run.

You seem upset about that. Just whose side are/were you on??

[El Guapo]

Going after the proven meant dealing with Starbucks power.

Ellen sleeping around and us hunting the seer / Cain made more sense at the time. I think leaving starbuck as-is was fine, it was Austin that we wanted.

Had we killed Newcastle or BB instead of El Guapo, this would have ended differently, I think, as we still would have been four strong. Doc could say what he wanted, but he was still unproven by the very merit that he still lived through the night. If would have made more sense to have ellen sleep with Doc on the night that we thought we'd get the seer though so that any info died with them.

Dealing with Starbuck was a simple matter of Ellen sleeping with him/drugging him/killing him. His power would be blocked that night and gone thereafter. Then you could easily take out Doc Austin. The Saul hunt ended up killing those you needed to try and hide among and left you no where to run.

You seem upset about that. Just whose side are/were you on??

 Remus West 
 

[bb2112]

Dealing with Starbuck was a simple matter of Ellen sleeping with him/drugging him/killing him. His power would be blocked that night and gone thereafter. Then you could easily take out Doc Austin. The Saul hunt ended up killing those you needed to try and hide among and left you no where to run.

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?

Problem with your theory is the order of the night sequence. I thought this too at first.

[stessier]

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?

Problem with your theory is the order of the night sequence. I thought this too at first.

I never noticed that. I think Ellen was way underpowered then. Since she only stopped night powers, she was pretty much useless except for her search ability.

Lassr, was that as intended?

[Remus West]

In the past Ellen has countered night abilities. If it worked in the order printed there she becomes completely useless. I think those are not in resolution order but merely the generic questions for each night.

Also, I'd like to make certain everyone noticed bb2112 has stated he will not be voting for either Choasraven or myself day 1 next game. Thus when I spend all of day 1 goading him into it let us be certain that we remember his promise and hold him suitably accountable.

[Lassr]

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?

Problem with your theory is the order of the night sequence. I thought this too at first.

I never noticed that. I think Ellen was way underpowered then. Since she only stopped night powers, she was pretty much useless except for her search ability.

Lassr, was that as intended?

No one ever asked but there is a loop hole in that sequence. Starbucks protection is all night not just a point in time. So If Ellen slept with Starbuck then at some point her protection would be nullified long enough for the kill to happen. May not have been obvious other than the part in Ellen's role that says she nullifies a special abilities at night. That would include Starbuck.

[Lassr]

In the past Ellen has countered night abilities. If it worked in the order printed there she becomes completely useless. I think those are not in resolution order but merely the generic questions for each night.

Also, I'd like to make certain everyone noticed bb2112 has stated he will not be voting for either Choasraven or myself day 1 next game. Thus when I spend all of day 1 goading him into it let us be certain that we remember his promise and hold him suitably accountable.

it is a general resolution order but as stated there are exceptions. Some happens simultaneously. Like all the Cylon activities happen through out the night but they get all their results at once in the morning .

[stessier]

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?

Problem with your theory is the order of the night sequence. I thought this too at first.

I never noticed that. I think Ellen was way underpowered then. Since she only stopped night powers, she was pretty much useless except for her search ability.

Lassr, was that as intended?

No one ever asked but there is a loop hole in that sequence. Starbucks protection is all night not just a point in time. So If Ellen slept with Starbuck then at some point her protection would be nullified long enough for the kill to happen. May not have been obvious other than the part in Ellen's role that says she nullifies a special abilities at night. That would include Starbuck.

I think we are questioning the part where the Kill happens before Ellen sleeps with anyone. The way we normally read that list of activities, it suggests that Ellen could never create a kill window.

[Lassr]

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?

Problem with your theory is the order of the night sequence. I thought this too at first.

I never noticed that. I think Ellen was way underpowered then. Since she only stopped night powers, she was pretty much useless except for her search ability.

Lassr, was that as intended?

No one ever asked but there is a loop hole in that sequence. Starbucks protection is all night not just a point in time. So If Ellen slept with Starbuck then at some point her protection would be nullified long enough for the kill to happen. May not have been obvious other than the part in Ellen's role that says she nullifies a special abilities at night. That would include Starbuck.

I think we are questioning the part where the Kill happens before Ellen sleeps with anyone. The way we normally read that list of activities, it suggests that Ellen could never create a kill window.

right, it was listed in that order so no one would think she sleeps with someone, finds them to be special, then kills them.

[stessier]

No one ever asked but there is a loop hole in that sequence. Starbucks protection is all night not just a point in time. So If Ellen slept with Starbuck then at some point her protection would be nullified long enough for the kill to happen. May not have been obvious other than the part in Ellen's role that says she nullifies a special abilities at night. That would include Starbuck.

I think we are questioning the part where the Kill happens before Ellen sleeps with anyone. The way we normally read that list of activities, it suggests that Ellen could never create a kill window.

right, it was listed in that order so no one would think she sleeps with someone, finds them to be special, then kills them.

Okay, but you have to admit it does not logically follow that she opens a kill window for anyone by that list either.

[purge]

I guess my thinking in these things is typically, I could be scanned, lynched, whatever anytime. I have 2 searches and 3 doses, I am using them all up while I am alive. Say you didn't search me and I never came out and we lynched you on Day 1. What if you were scanned as a cylon? You would have wasted an opportunity to tell the others who I was. I am not disagreeing with your play, I just take a use it or lose it approach - okay I am disagreeing.

This is a 16 person game, meaning at a death rate of 2 per 24hr period, there is a potential to go a long time (including starbuck blocks). We had no knowledge of any of the surprises either, so we had to ration what got used.

I didn't contribute one way or the other to Ellens use of her products (that I recall). I didn't see the need as it made sense.

Dealing with Starbuck was a simple matter of Ellen sleeping with him/drugging him/killing him. His power would be blocked that night and gone thereafter. Then you could easily take out Doc Austin. The Saul hunt ended up killing those you needed to try and hide among and left you no where to run.

[/quote]

Actually, since the way I understood Ellens powers to work (Based on order), we would have had Ellen sleep with Doc. Since Doc can only sleep with a person once, that made it risky to do ahead of time.

The fact that Ellen only stopped Docs powers on day one, she was our sniffer, while we shot at the bushes.

I agree that perhaps killing Grund or El Guapo was unfortunate, having Ellen sleep with BB would have also revealed a target we'd land and he'd sleep with the doctor on the same night as the kill (assuming BB hadn't come forward yet). Doc would die the next night - staying away from Starbucks obvious protection targets (Doc night 2, himself night 3) meant we had an opportunity to cast a wider net.

Did it work? Yup ... until I got shot, and Unagi was proven by ANOTHER special. Had newcastle, rather than our target (El Guapo, IIRC) died that night, this would have been different.

Basically we had a 50/50 shot. The "kill stess" was based on how he was playing. I totally spaced out with Ellen's results on Stess.

I think that Lassr ran a great game, and the biggest problem with this game was our lack of time, which contributed to lack of communication.

I thought Scoop did a magnificent job of trying to get the noose over my head.

[El Guapo]

Yeah as it is the 'sequence' looks heavily like the cylons kill happens before Ellen even chooses the target, which if that were the sequence the kill would be blocked before Ellen chooses it, so Ellen could not interrupt Starbuck.

I think the way to make that clear is to include both questions and resolutions in the sequence like so:

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
[Doc PM happens]
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
[Cavil scan happens]
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
[Ellen sexing happens]
[Starbuck protection takes effect]
[Cylon kill happens]
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
[Boomer scan happens]
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?
[Cain agenda happens]

[Lassr]

No one ever asked but there is a loop hole in that sequence. Starbucks protection is all night not just a point in time. So If Ellen slept with Starbuck then at some point her protection would be nullified long enough for the kill to happen. May not have been obvious other than the part in Ellen's role that says she nullifies a special abilities at night. That would include Starbuck.

I think we are questioning the part where the Kill happens before Ellen sleeps with anyone. The way we normally read that list of activities, it suggests that Ellen could never create a kill window.

right, it was listed in that order so no one would think she sleeps with someone, finds them to be special, then kills them.

Okay, but you have to admit it does not logically follow that she opens a kill window for anyone by that list either.

No, Not by that list. As Remus said, it used to let you know what orders I may need and the general flow of how it will be resolved. I could make a huge list with If/Then statements but I don't wanna.

[Lassr]

and then El Guapo shows me up by producing one....

[purge]

Yeah as it is the 'sequence' looks heavily like the cylons kill happens before Ellen even chooses the target, which if that were the sequence the kill would be blocked before Ellen chooses it, so Ellen could not interrupt Starbuck.

I think the way to make that clear is to include both questions and resolutions in the sequence like so:

Night Sequence
Starbuck-Who will you protect?
Doc-Will you PM the last victim?
[Doc PM happens]
Cavil-Who Will you scan?
[Cavil scan happens]
Cylons-Who will you kill?
Ellen-Who will you sleep with? Will you use drug?
[Ellen sexing happens]
[Starbuck protection takes effect]
[Cylon kill happens]
Boomer-Who will you scan if available?
[Boomer scan happens]
Cain-Will you perform your hidden agenda if possible?
[Cain agenda happens]

Ellens nightly romp happens AFTER starbuck protection kicks in (as starbuck's protection of someone prevents Ellen from getting it on with the same target).

The idea (though not clarified by Lassr originally) would be that Ellen would be too busy playin' in her fishing hole for Starbuck to get away to protect someone.

Looking back, I think Lassr was REALLY HOPING to have to write that one up.

[El Guapo]

Good point. I guess you'd add [Starbuck cock-blocking takes effect] right after Starbuck chooses her protection target.

Either way, I don't think it played a significant role in the course of the game.

[Lassr]

Looking back, I think Lassr was REALLY HOPING to have to write that one up.

Giggity

[bb2112]

Also, I'd like to make certain everyone noticed bb2112 has stated he will not be voting for either Choasraven or myself day 1 next game. Thus when I spend all of day 1 goading him into it let us be certain that we remember his promise and hold him suitably accountable.

Seriously, would I notice the difference? I can already predict it.

Remus - I've noticed some people acting really out of character, but that bb really is striking me funny.

bb - the sky is a really pretty shade of blue today.

Remus - Now that is odd. There is some blue, but I saw a clould. bb is really hitting my radar, but I will continue to hold my thoughts to myself.

bb - Oh yeah, I saw a cloud too, but it was really a nice day.

Remus - LIAR!!! Burn the bastard!! He must die today. All game he has been alluding to blue skies and a good guy would already know there were clouds in the sky!! How did bb not know there were clouds in the sky until after I pointed it out! He is obviously evil and must die now!

bb - But, but, I was just commenting on the blue sky...

Remus - I know! It is precisely for that reason that I am voting for you. You have seemed off all game and now you have confirmed it. You are undoubtably evil and must pay the ultimate price.

 bb2112 
 


Other 1 - Hmmm, Remus seems really adamant on frying bb today. Remus is a good player, he wouldn't be after bb so hard just because he can point and laugh at him at the next gaming get together his group has. He must really be on to something.

 bb2112 
 


Other 2 - Yeah, you are right. Remus wouldn't just kill someone for the fun of it. He has to have a good reason. I have no idea what that is, but I like Remus and he is not going after me, therefore, bb has to go.

 bb2112 
 


bb - No! Wait! Stop! You guys are all making a grave mistake. Remus just loves to kill his friends in games! He has said it on multiple occasions. Usually after I'm dead, but he has admitted to it!

Remus - That is exactly what I would expect a wolf to say. So by your admission you are a wolf.

bb - What! I never admitted to...

Other 3 - He does seem to be protesting too much. Only a wolf wolf would protest like that. Once again, Remus is on to something.

 bb2112 
 


bb - Guys, let's be reasonable here. I just said something about the sky and ...

Other 4 - Oh, come on. We are not a reasonable bunch of people. You should know that by now. Hell, one game we lynched this one guy becuase he said "was" instead of "is." Now what kind of frakking moron makes that kind of mistake. Only an evil one I tell you.

 bb2112 
 


bb - Seriously, is there anything I can say to possibly clear my name? I'm innocent!

Other 5 - I just got done smoking a fatty. What's going on? bb is on the block? Well I have two more fatties to get through tonight and will not be online for awhile. I really don't care who dies, so why not?

 bb2112 
 


Other 6 - Wow! I am a bad guy and these Other guys have made this pretty easy for me. If they are willing to kill an innocent, who am to stand in their way. Suckers.

 bb2112 
 


bb - No really, I was just trying to comment on the sky. It was blue you see...

Other 7 - Will you shut the frak up about the blue skies already! We get it! The sky was blue! So what! You are annoying and must die!

 bb2112 
 


Other 8 - Hey! In bb's first post he said the sky is blue. In his last post he said the sky was blue. I'm sold. That bb is a huge dumbass to make such a rookie mistake.

 bb2112 
 


Moderator - bb is dead. He was the deputy and not a bad guy at all.

Remus - Well that was fun. I'm going to give bb such a hard time next time at gaming. I'm so glad I finally talked him into joining OO so I can find new and interesting ways to mess with his feeble little head. Hehehehe... What a dumbass. Sky is blue... Hehehehe... Classic...

[El Guapo]

Well, I'm convinced.

 bb2112 
 

[Newcastle]

Lassr - if i havent said so...thanks for running it, it was a great game and a lot fun. Couple of more things i wanted to bring up:


1. Re: my fighting/squabbling about the explosion; it caught me by surprise and was more a WTF reaction then really being upset. I should have expected something like that. I dont think it was unfair in any sense, ESPECIALLY considering i had my secret powers, i should have expected curveballs.

2. I think when dealing w/ secret events/powers. You should clearly state that you have a secret events/powers that can affect both sides. I think if that were clearly stated, I wouldnt have been so petty.

3. i think w/ Caines power; i think w/ the shot & scan....i think it should be both...but you cant go...i scan x and if cylon i shoot. I dont think the scan should be able to inform the shot. I think both go at the same time.

3B. I think also, having to x amount of votes was a fun challenge to hit. It added another layer to the game I think due to my having to act chaotic, it also unnervevd other people's analysis i think and exited the realm of predictability in terms of behavior.


OH  BB2112 
 

[stessier]

Sorry I'm being so quiet. Work and all.

 BB2112 
 

[RevHempus71]

Now why am I always so damn guilty fellas........ Sheesh.

I think we explained this already. On the day you suicided, it's not that you looked particularly guilty - Scoop just looked less guilty.

Plus there was this post from Rev:

I am totally a cylon, and so would win with the cylons. Because again, I am a cylon and not a human.

Gotta admit that looked pretty incriminating at the time.

Guess I was hen.HIGHER than I thought t

[Remus West]

Remus - Well that was fun. I'm going to give bb such a hard time next time at gaming. I'm so glad I finally talked him into joining OO so I can find new and interesting ways to mess with his feeble little head. Hehehehe... What a dumbass. Sky is blue... Hehehehe... Classic...

Trouble is they all know this part is completely in character for me.

[bb2112]

Well, I'm convinced.

 bb2112 
 

OH  BB2112 
 

Sorry I'm being so quiet. Work and all.

 BB2112 
 

Remus - Well that was fun. I'm going to give bb such a hard time next time at gaming. I'm so glad I finally talked him into joining OO so I can find new and interesting ways to mess with his feeble little head. Hehehehe... What a dumbass. Sky is blue... Hehehehe... Classic...

Trouble is they all know this part is completely in character for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TE0-ozjC ... re=related" target="_blank

[purge]

I wouldn't have voted for you, BB.

I should have though. I really, REALLY should have.

Maybe Remus is onto something.

 BB8675309 
 

[Chaosraven]

Good Luck, and we're all counting on you.