OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[coopasonic]

I'm not confused at all. Yes, Parasite emulating Joker can't convert. That doesn't mean Parasites emulation power only applies to the day phase.

YES IT DOES.

PARASITE=DPP (DEAD PERSONS POWER)
IF DPP has DAY PHASE ABILITY
- THEN PARASITE GETS DAY POWER
ELSE
- PARASITE GETS NIGHT POWER.
FI

I don't think I can make it simpler than that. Jokers Harley conversion skill is unavailable to Parasite. He doesn't get ALL their powers, simply all the powers of the next available phase.

Are you reading what you are replying to? I agree that Parasite can't make Harley and said exactly that. I'm not sure why you are agreeing with me in all caps.

[Lassr]

Good morning. My night one protect/scan was Lassr.

He is either Two-Face or a normal. Based on his voting record, I kind of believe he is normal. He also was joking day one about being Wonder Woman and his giblets in his tight shorts. This also makes me believe he was a pretty good target for team evil. I'm just glad he wasn't Croc.

So anyway, that is everything.

Yep, I was trying to draw a night kill to me or have them waste a scan. Was not converted.

[Unagi]

Oh, and BTW, lets all hold real still shall we. I wouldn't want to shoot the wrong person.


I'd really prefer to shoot Grund since my arrow would prove him even if he is TwoFace. He either dies and we know good/evil or he survives and we know he is TwoFace.

That said, Superman does not get out of the day alive as far as I am concerned so unless someone else can shoot him first I'll have to do it and we shall have to rely on lynching to test the Grund/bb2112/theohall triumvirate.

First.

Excellent that you are Green Arrow.

Regarding TwoFace - and you shooting TwoFace. My understanding is that TwoFace would die from your arrow (because he is evil), and that he would come up "Good" when Mod Reports (because he is TwoFace).
Or am I not understanding that right.

[coopasonic]

Oh, and BTW, lets all hold real still shall we. I wouldn't want to shoot the wrong person.


I'd really prefer to shoot Grund since my arrow would prove him even if he is TwoFace. He either dies and we know good/evil or he survives and we know he is TwoFace.

That said, Superman does not get out of the day alive as far as I am concerned so unless someone else can shoot him first I'll have to do it and we shall have to rely on lynching to test the Grund/bb2112/theohall triumvirate.

First.

Excellent that you are Green Arrow.

Regarding TwoFace - and you shooting TwoFace. My understanding is that TwoFace would die from your arrow (because he is evil), and that he would come up "Good" when Mod Reports (because he is TwoFace).
Or am I not understanding that right.

Two-Face - Harvey Dent will scan as Normal, both for Lynching and for Powers unless Batman is alive and in the Game. In the event he is Lynched, Batman will get a PM that he was Two-Face. In the event a Power identifies him, Batman will get the Truth. If Harvey Dent is shot by the Green Arrow, he will survive and be identified as Normal (Batman will receive his true identity)

...

[Unagi]

Two-Face - Harvey Dent will scan as Normal, both for Lynching and for Powers unless Batman is alive and in the Game. In the event he is Lynched, Batman will get a PM that he was Two-Face. In the event a Power identifies him, Batman will get the Truth. If Harvey Dent is shot by the Green Arrow, he will survive and be identified as Normal (Batman will receive his true identity)...

Oops, I didn't actually look it up... (glad you found something to comment on, finally)

[Remus West]

Green Arrow - has a Single Arrow. Green Arrow must PM his intent prior to majority vote to use his arrow during the Day. If Green Arrow shoots either a Hero or a Villain that Player will die. If Green Arrow shoots a Normal, that player will not die and the target is PROTECTED that Night. Use of the Arrow does Not Reveal Green Arrow.


Two-Face - Harvey Dent will scan as Normal, both for Lynching and for Powers unless Batman is alive and in the Game. In the event he is Lynched, Batman will get a PM that he was Two-Face. In the event a Power identifies him, Batman will get the Truth. If Harvey Dent is shot by the Green Arrow, he will survive and be identified as Normal (Batman will receive his true identity)

Grund has claimed a power role. All powered roles get killed by my arrow. Except Two Face. If I shoot one of the claimants and they survive then they are clearly Two Face. Only problem with that is you'd have to trust me that I shot them as there is no reveal when I use my ability. So my arrow will either kill the claimant (and thus give us information regarding good/evil) or it will not kill them and thus out them as Two-Face. I'd really like to use this part of my ability so I'd love for someone other than me to shoot triggercut but I really doubt we have another shooter out there given the number of specials outed already.

[bb2112]

Best plan I've heard yet.

1. Someone shoot Trig today
2. Lynch Grund
3. I die tonight, unless team evil wants to give me another scan.
4. Lynch Theo tomorrow
5. Most likely Tru1cy or some other person, I have no clue, bites it in the night
6. Fresh start on Day 4

So, are we back to this? Or does someone have a better plan?

Discuss.

[purge]

Let's look at the list of players, shall we? (giving Tru1cy the benefit of the doubt here)

TOTAL GAME PERSPECTIVE PROVEN:
Newcastle/Triggercut - Superman
Qantaga - unpowered human (dead)
tru1cy - special, supported by Triggercut/Superman

UNPROVEN:
Isgrimnur (claims human)
coopasonic (claims human)
bb2112 (claims Wonder Woman, Lassr human, Theohall the riddler)
Remus West (claims Green Arrow)
theohall (claims batman, 3/6/8 vil/hero/human, supported by Grund, contested by bb2112)
Lagom Lite (claimed self-protected night 0, just came out with Elongated Man)
Lassr (claims human, supported by BB2112)
Mr Bubbles (claims human)
Grundbegriff (claims Dr. Fate, Austin human, Theohall batman)
Austin (claims human, supported by Grund)

UNCLAIMED:
El Guapo
purge
RMC
Unagi (best odds of being villain / special in this group - 66.6%)



LAGOM LITE
Now Lagom Lite could only have been EM or AM, since he claims to have self-protected, and since only those roles know of self-protection.

Him coming forward does nothing to help or hinder the good side - if evil attacked him (as he claimed they did), as soon as he said he "self-protected" they would have known that it wasn't a WW protection and wouldn't have wasted a scan on him (or any further night kills). If they did, they'd be retarded. He couldn't be Dr. Strange or WW, and no risk of scanning means to move on - he's basically a barely-powered human.

It is also a fantastic role to spoof if you're converting someone that night, which is why he didn't reveal UNTIL NOW which of the roles he was playing.


GREEN ARROW
Green arrow wants to shoot superman - I have no problems with this, but I'd rather see Fate tested (since Joker doesn't go boom - the only risk is losing Remus if Grund is crock).


HERO COUNT:
"Batman" claims 6.

We have now:

Superman
unknown (tru1cy)
Green Arrow
Elongated Man
Wonder Woman
Batman
Dr. Fate

If we believe EM did his work day one, then there is no Harley.
If we believe batman, then we assume no other heroes exist, and that WW is a false claim. (there may be room for one more if EM is false).

This means that the (natural) villains must reside in:

CLAIMS HUMAN:
Isgrimnur
coopasonic
Lassr
Mr Bubbles
Austin

NO CLAIMS:
El Guapo
purge
RMC
Unagi


FROM BB's PERSPECTIVE:
Newcastle/Triggercut - Superman
Qantaga - unpowered human (dead)
tru1cy - special, supported by Triggercut/Superman
Lassr - human (night 0 scan)
theohall - Riddler (night 1 scan)
Grundbegriff - Villain by claiming Theo as Batman (role unknown)

FROM GRUND's PERSPECTIVE:
Newcastle/Triggercut - Superman
Qantaga - unpowered human (dead)
tru1cy - special, supported by Triggercut/Superman
Austin - human (night 0 scan)
Theohall - Batman (night 1 scan)
BB2112 - Villain by claiming Theo as Riddler (role unknown)

So now the count comes into play. If there is another hero hiding, we can tell if Theo is lying. If that's the case, then we can move forward BEFORE wasting a shot, one way or the other. This will solve our riddler/batman theohall mystery, and nab us two villains.

(grund / theohall) or BB2112.

Fact is, BB came out after Grund, and only in contest to his claim that Theo was Batman.

That was a good act, and frankly, shooting Grund or Theohall solves this entire mess. Grund may PROVE himself - he may be Dr. HarleyFate and still mindblast when killed, or message at night.

I'm not criticizing levels here, but I trust Grund to pull this kind of crap off. I see BB at my level, where I'd be pretty rattled trying to keep my story straight were I spoofing.

As to killing Superman - let's not help them kill our folks. We may still have other heroes in our midst. If we shoot grund, we will know whether or not he's good, and therefore if we can trust "batman". If we can't, we lynch theohall. I'm leaning towards trusting BB over Grund.

[purge]

Good morning. My night one protect/scan was Lassr.

He is either Two-Face or a normal. Based on his voting record, I kind of believe he is normal. He also was joking day one about being Wonder Woman and his giblets in his tight shorts. This also makes me believe he was a pretty good target for team evil. I'm just glad he wasn't Croc.

So anyway, that is everything.

Yep, I was trying to draw a night kill to me or have them waste a scan. Was not converted.

Like you'd report otherwise.

[coopasonic]

assuming 4 bad guys

4 vs 12
shoot trig
4 v 11
lynch grund who splodes
3 v 10
WWBB dies in the night
3 v 9
lynch theo
2 v 9
other special dies
2 vs 8

quick math gives us 3 misses after that point... which works out to pretty good odds. If grund isn't joker then 2 vs 9 which is even better.

[bb2112]

 theohall 
 

Hey guys, I just thought of something else. When I saw this, I was thinking Austin must be Dr. Fate and knew Theo's identity. He not only accused Theo, but posted the . At the time it confused me, but he was supporting my vote for a bad guy, so I filed it away for later.

It is now later.

Why would he do this? If he is a scanner, and posted the , he basically outed himself to team evil. I am sure all of team evil would have picked up on it right away and it would make Austin a very juicy target. The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. Why put yourself out there when you don't have to? Especially if you are a scanner?

Then I thought, he could have been setting himself up to spoof a scanner role later. Now this makes a lot more sense.

Then there is the Grund reveal. He claims Theo is Batman, which is patently false. He also claimed Austin was normal. What if he tried to plant another seed of falseness for Austin?

Oh, and this came out the same time as Remus' reveal, so someone please acknowledge that it was read.

[Remus West]

Wow. I show up to a five-page-longer thread, reads it, about to withdraw my Grund vote, reads more, about to put it back, then away again.

It's very unlikely that there are no bad guys among so many claimed specials.

Just to pile it on (there are so many targets anyway that my ruse is futile):

I am The Elongated Man.

I think it's unlikely that we have all these scanners (Batman + Superman + Wonder Woman + Dr Fate), although if the role distribution is completely random I guess it's possible. We know trig is supes, that leaves Grund and bb2112.

bb2112 claims theohall is The Riddler. But theohall says he's Batman (though uncontested).

How useful is Batman? It seems we should test theohall. That could verify bb2112.

How trustworthy is Dr Fate's "provability"? If Grund can prove himself, that would put the damper on bb2112's Wonder Woman claim.

 withdraw Grundbegriff 
 


Maybe we should lynch someone else entirely and let night activity sort it out.

He never claimed self protect.

So, right now I'm looking at:
Grundbegriff
theohall
Purge

as Evil ones.

[purge]

Are you reading what you are replying to? I agree that Parasite can't make Harley and said exactly that. I'm not sure why you are agreeing with me in all caps.

Sorry - rushing through in my response in catching up.
Thought you were suggesting that night powers are available as well, regardless of day power availability. It was a carryover from someones concern about a ParaSuperHarley.

Yes, parasite can use night powers - but only if that powered person had no day phase powers to emulate.

[Remus West]

It was read.

[Unagi]

He never claimed self protect.

So, right now I'm looking at:
Grundbegriff
theohall
Purge

as Evil ones.

I never saw it either (in fact, I asked Lagom for that information...)

Purge - where are you getting that he self-protected?

[Unagi]

It was read.

I read it too, bb2112. It is a weird moment that Austin had, I will certainly give you that.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.

[bb2112]

It was read.

thx

[bb2112]

It was read.

I read it too, bb2112. It is a weird moment that Austin had, I will certainly give you that.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.

Yeah, that is why I wanted to point it out now. The likelyhood of my being around later to push Austin into a corner is probably pretty slim so you guys will have to pick up the torches and pitchforks.

[purge]

He never claimed self protect.

So, right now I'm looking at:
Grundbegriff
theohall
Purge

as Evil ones.

I never saw it either (in fact, I asked Lagom for that information...)

Purge - where are you getting that he self-protected?

So the game is to always push someone to n-1 then listen to them claim a special to skip lynching. I have no regrets

Btw, Newcastle, Qantaga and I aren't proven till Supes is scanned

Huh. While unlikely, Newcastle could have been converted yesternight. It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn.

Although, it is proven that Newcastle is (or was) Superman.

Superman should have conversion immunity. It's a game breaker.

I would even go so far as to say that unless the Superman role is modified to give him conversion immunity, Protectors should Protect Superman tonight, and Green Arrow (was it?) should SHOOT SUPERMAN tomorrow.

Yes. That's right. Shoot Superman. That's how dangerous he is to us now. Even if the Joker is only a possibility, it ends the game.

I wouldn't say that he still stands by this (I am quite sure he'll have comments on this whole thing), but at one point - the idea of an lynch immune superman was ruffling some feathers.

And it's not simply about you being converted now - it's about that ever happening.

Shoot me now and we're down two from team hero, with no new information to lynch by, resulting in a decent chance at hanging another hero today.

If we started at 12-5 and they avoid killing a protected hero, it would be 8-5 on Wednesday morning, with...2 more misses? 1 more miss if the Joker is in game and not lynched last.

If we started at 11-6, and they avoid killing a protected hero, it would be 7-6 on Wednesday morning. If the Joker is active and in-game, he would have to be the last Villain lynched or the badguys win.

Not a good play. Disastrous.

Lagom, seriously? Which team are you on?

As I wrote this morning, as long as there is a night kill it's very unlikely that triggercut has been converted - yet. Therefore no, no shooting Supes - not today.

But triggercut, do you realize how incredibly dangerous you are? It's sort of unsettling how you completely dismiss the seppuku idea. If you get converted and we lack a Shooter/Lantern, it's bye-bye.

Also, I very much doubt we face 5 villains. Too many players for that, the number of hits must match the number of misses for a balanced game. I'd guess 4 villains is more likely (or even 3, given all the built-in obfuscations).

Regarding the discussion of roles claimants, that is, me and Grund, I agree on principle. But I won't give you my exact role today.

I am one of:
Wonder Woman
The Flash
The Elongated Man
Atom

I'll let you figure out why it's better that the villains try to work out who I am, rather than me handing it to them on a silver platter.

However,

 Grundbegriff 
 

VERY VERY Certain. Protector. Other protectors don't get notification. I even outlined several times how Lagom's role shouldn't be discussed as to provide uncertainty for the villains. This is around when I broke down the villains and heroes roles.

[purge]

 theohall 
 

Hey guys, I just thought of something else. When I saw this, I was thinking Austin must be Dr. Fate and knew Theo's identity. He not only accused Theo, but posted the . At the time it confused me, but he was supporting my vote for a bad guy, so I filed it away for later.

It is now later.

Why would he do this? If he is a scanner, and posted the , he basically outed himself to team evil. I am sure all of team evil would have picked up on it right away and it would make Austin a very juicy target. The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. Why put yourself out there when you don't have to? Especially if you are a scanner?

Then I thought, he could have been setting himself up to spoof a scanner role later. Now this makes a lot more sense.

Then there is the Grund reveal. He claims Theo is Batman, which is patently false. He also claimed Austin was normal. What if he tried to plant another seed of falseness for Austin?

Oh, and this came out the same time as Remus' reveal, so someone please acknowledge that it was read.

I read it, but I'm not sure I understand your point. Care to elaborate?

[purge]

Remus, if *I* picked up on how Lagom, a protector, could be certain that there was no night conversion and you didn't is beyond me.

Fact of the matter is that it was obvious - and Lagom was shitting bricks over Superharley, so I'm now leaning to believing Lagom is an unconverted Elongated Man.

Lagom, can you confirm that Night 0 was a self-protect?

[Remus West]

Where in all those quotes does he (Lagom) say he was the target of attack at night?

[Unagi]

Purge,
the things you quoted show me that Lagom actually was willing to leave the window open on Newcastle being converted.

Right ??

read:

While unlikely, Newcastle could have been converted yesternight. It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn.

and

it's very unlikely that triggercut has been converted

If Lagom was attacked on Night 1, then he KNOWS why there was no Kill.
Lagom could easily say "it is impossible that triggercut was converted", but he never once said that.

[coopasonic]

Where in all those quotes does he (Lagom) say he was the target of attack at night?

Huh. While unlikely, Newcastle could have been converted yesternight. It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn.

[/quote]

I think that's the key, along with the following posts worried about the conversion still being out there, ie he KNEW there wasn't a first night conversion.

Interpreting purge, not endorsing.

[Unagi]

Remus, if *I* picked up on how Lagom, a protector, could be certain that there was no night conversion and you didn't is beyond me.

But Lagom, a protector, was NOT certain.

He said:

It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn

[purge]

Can we get some resolution on the Grund / Theohall / BB thing?

As to protectors, WW > Dr. Fate for the protection ability, though Fate can communicate.

If Grund was converted, then Lagom did not self-protect night one, and it boggles as to how LL could have been certain that he was unconverted (unless as a villain - but why stop us from killing a good guy?).

I've got a few meetings to attend and some KSH scripts to get going on. I'll check in before the EOB today.

[purge]

Remus, if *I* picked up on how Lagom, a protector, could be certain that there was no night conversion and you didn't is beyond me.

But Lagom, a protector, was NOT certain.

He said:

It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn

... and then he puts a stay of execution on superman - he speaks with certainty throughout his posts on the subject. Go re-read the thread. I used the CTRL-F for his sig "Joy is but the shadow pain casts" to find his posts.

[Remus West]

This post (linked in the FAQ) shows that Lagom would know if he was attacked night 1. That said, Elongated Man's ability is to be self protected a single time. There is no need for him to be coy about having been attacked because if he were he becomes equal to Normal at that point, his power expended. In fact, had he been the target, there would have been motivation to get his knowledge out there since if they attacked him again he would die and they would gain a role to fake safely.

[coopasonic]

Remus, if *I* picked up on how Lagom, a protector, could be certain that there was no night conversion and you didn't is beyond me.

But Lagom, a protector, was NOT certain.

He said:

It is a possibility, though very very unlikely, that Newcastle is currently Harley Quinn

Leaving some room to avoid outing himself?

[Unagi]

Look, I actually agree that it seems a bit like Lagom was trying to nudge us away from the concerns of a Nigh 0 conversion - but he most certainly hasn't told us all that he knows he was the wiff-target on Night 0.

[Remus West]

Can we get some resolution on the Grund / Theohall / BB thing?

Not without killing one of them. I have not submitted my shot yet (and won't until everyone checks in and offers their thoughts on who to shoot).

[Lassr]

Good morning. My night one protect/scan was Lassr.

He is either Two-Face or a normal. Based on his voting record, I kind of believe he is normal. He also was joking day one about being Wonder Woman and his giblets in his tight shorts. This also makes me believe he was a pretty good target for team evil. I'm just glad he wasn't Croc.

So anyway, that is everything.

Yep, I was trying to draw a night kill to me or have them waste a scan. Was not converted.

Like you'd report otherwise.

true unless I could prove BB was lying somehow but I can't as I am a normal human.

[coopasonic]

Can we get some resolution on the Grund / Theohall / BB thing?

Not without killing one of them. I have not submitted my shot yet (and won't until everyone checks in and offers their thoughts on who to shoot).

My input: Don't shoot Killer Croc.

[Unagi]

I used the CTRL-F for his sig "Joy is but the shadow pain casts" to find his posts.

You know, you can search by Author...

that's fine purge, (that you have picked up on Lagom's hints) my main point is - let's hear from Lagom.

Leaving some room to avoid outing himself?

and yup, I can see that.

[coopasonic]

This post (linked in the FAQ) shows that Lagom would know if he was attacked night 1. That said, Elongated Man's ability is to be self protected a single time. There is no need for him to be coy about having been attacked because if he were he becomes equal to Normal at that point, his power expended. In fact, had he been the target, there would have been motivation to get his knowledge out there since if they attacked him again he would die and they would gain a role to fake safely.

So why is Lagom coming forward now? He just wanted to be part of the action? Even as a villain it doesn't make sense. Nobody is looking at him for the next two days. I'm not sure he was even #3 on any threat lists.

[Remus West]

Can we get some resolution on the Grund / Theohall / BB thing?

Not without killing one of them. I have not submitted my shot yet (and won't until everyone checks in and offers their thoughts on who to shoot).

My input: Don't shoot Killer Croc.

Meh. If I do, then I do. It is looking likely that I'll be shooting Superman though.

[purge]

This post (linked in the FAQ) shows that Lagom would know if he was attacked night 1. That said, Elongated Man's ability is to be self protected a single time. There is no need for him to be coy about having been attacked because if he were he becomes equal to Normal at that point, his power expended. In fact, had he been the target, there would have been motivation to get his knowledge out there since if they attacked him again he would die and they would gain a role to fake safely.

The value was in that if the villains assumed he was protected by a protector, that he would die of no consequence, or that he was Atom man and they would leave him alone.

As it stands, he is powerless to help - and though he may well be a villain, his deep concern for Superharley at the beginning of the game (which I just re-read to find the quotes above) means he was really good at acting, or is entirely on the level.

So we need to know now we have one faker, or two.

Remus, you have a shot. Please take me off your list of considered targets at this time, and focus on the task at hand. Killing Supes might seem like a good idea - I imagine it's a lonely burden knowing you may be the only one who can stop the joker - but assuming BB is not lying, we have 2 candidates who may be carrying the unspent power of corruption in them.

Who is more important? Batman, or Dr. Fate? I suppose if one were to draw the circle wide enough, it could even be the both BB and Grund are working together to draw the heroes out. One dies, one is "proven". The only challenge is justifying the constant night-survival, so this dulls occams razor like mad.


Once again : Lagom, has your power been used?

[Unagi]

Ages ago, I had this to say on the hypothetical Lagom as Elongated Man

Lagom as The Elongated Man:
Perhaps he evaded an attack on Sunday Night
Perhaps he didn't.
If he did evade an attack on Sunday night, he knows it - and he knows that he is vulnerable to them now.... if that is the case: He could safely claim "Exposed Elongated Man", and we would all let him ride for a day and he would be killed at night (His Duty!!)
If he did not evade an attack on Sunday night, he knows that - and he knows that he has 2 Hit Points at night. He should demand to be taken for his word and WANT to make his claim of being the "Unexposed Elongated Man". He would be a great GREAT target to be scanned.
He would need to make that claim though - and it would perhaps cost us one of our scans to Confirm - but that forces the Villains to take 2 swings at him.

My Net Result: I don't know that I mind Elongated Man (Exposed or Unexposed) being revealed today.

[Remus West]

This post (linked in the FAQ) shows that Lagom would know if he was attacked night 1. That said, Elongated Man's ability is to be self protected a single time. There is no need for him to be coy about having been attacked because if he were he becomes equal to Normal at that point, his power expended. In fact, had he been the target, there would have been motivation to get his knowledge out there since if they attacked him again he would die and they would gain a role to fake safely.

The value was in that if the villains assumed he was protected by a protector, that he would die of no consequence, or that he was Atom man and they would leave him alone.

As it stands, he is powerless to help - and though he may well be a villain, his deep concern for Superharley at the beginning of the game (which I just re-read to find the quotes above) means he was really good at acting, or is entirely on the level.

So we need to know now we have one faker, or two.

Remus, you have a shot. Please take me off your list of considered targets at this time, and focus on the task at hand. Killing Supes might seem like a good idea - I imagine it's a lonely burden knowing you may be the only one who can stop the joker - but assuming BB is not lying, we have 2 candidates who may be carrying the unspent power of corruption in them.

Who is more important? Batman, or Dr. Fate? I suppose if one were to draw the circle wide enough, it could even be the both BB and Grund are working together to draw the heroes out. One dies, one is "proven". The only challenge is justifying the constant night-survival, so this dulls occams razor like mad.


Once again : Lagom, has your power been used?

Purge, you make a big show of how carefully you read and interpretted Lagom's posts and then you say the colored bit above. Who, exactly are the "2" candidates?

[Lassr]

Can we get some resolution on the Grund / Theohall / BB thing?

Not without killing one of them. I have not submitted my shot yet (and won't until everyone checks in and offers their thoughts on who to shoot).

I see no easy way around not shooting Superman, as much I would HATE to do that he is a game killer right now if he is converted. I would really love for you to shoot Grund, that would provide so much info but it could also mean an instant loss for us.