OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[Chaosraven]

[Remus West]

Unagi and El Guapo,

Feel free to off Superman when you find the time. If you have an issue with doing it let me know and I'll do it.

Thanks.

- Oliver Queen

I think the order may have been sent and we're waiting on CR. Hold your shot.

I'm not going to shoot you until it I'm told by Unagi/El Guapo that they are not going to do so or several RL days have passed so no worries there.

[bb2112]

Can we please stop saying "prove". The only thing we prove is our roles and those are immaterial until we find someone that has proven their role AND died Evil or we have no nights without a kill (oops, that part is already ruined) and Joker get lynched blowing someone up.

BTW, if you folks do have purge use his ability on me he MUST also use it on any lynch target. I think that a bad idea. We actually need that bomb to go off if it is out there since it is our only method of knowing we have hit Joker. That said, if he uses the Lantern on me and we then allow the lynch to go through without Lanterning the target I could get blown up.

We can accept everyone's role claims without accepting their alliance. We can then work from there rather than create more risk by going through convoluted routes to prove roles.

Use whatever verbiage makes you happy. The only proof in his disabling you would be in his claim to GL. Since half this crew is convinced a conversion happened the first night, I'm not going to try and convince you Purge is Good or Evil by proving his claim to GL.

I think he outlined his thought in an earlier post, but right now, I want a confirmation from Purge.

PURGE - Knowing that Supes taking the mace to the face is the only option regarding Trig, how do you want to play out the rest of the day?

[purge]

You bigmouth idiots running around removing any doubt as to who their targets are make *ME* wonder what your motivation is. Team evil, if the riddler is dead TODAY, may not have the ability to know Tru1cy's role, therefore it stands to reason that with some shadow of doubt, that mistakes can be made. RMC has made no claim as of yet.

Frankly, Triggercut coming OUT was the only reason I didn't stay hidden (unless I was a target).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to the shooting order, look at the function of shooting, and the targets.

Two hawks are actually PROVEN when they shoot - so they should shoot the ambiguous target (evil - we don't know Grunds role).

The ambiguous shooter (GA) should shoot the PROVEN target, in order to prove Remus isn't lying (Superman or Riddler/Batman).

If Remus was evil / converted, he could go off and claim he shot any unknown / human and claim the shot was made (it was unclear as to whether mod event happens when GA shoots a human).

So I want to see Remus prove his role.
I also want to see Unagi / El Guapo prove their role.
My disabling superman for a lynch also makes sense, but since I know who I am, and no one is disputing my power, I don't really care.

BB can prove me good tomorrow, if that's what it means. It also means that BB will likely die tonight (no self-protect, slim chance of the Flash existing), and then I'll be targeted the next night if I still have a ring charge left (otherwise, I'm no more special than anyone else).

I *STILL* think it's stupid that we're shooting superman, since we're banking on no-convert on a deathless night 0, and so we're reducing our numbers for them. Sure, sure, he's the one most risky for us to remain alive - it's a game. I've not objected to the action though, and I've offered to facilitate it.

I've never wavered from that position, so any accusation of my alignment being other than good is going to be met with hostility.

Remember, I'm the histrionic purge. And when I'm good, and questioned, I go off. Feel free to check the record books on that - my time as Heimdall is a great example. And right now, I've spent too much time on this game.

If there is a power shutdown required, post it in bold. I'm not reading individual responses - clearly Remus doesn't think there is any question of his alignment, but his role (like mine) is not publicly proven.

[purge]

I will not use my power on Remus.

I want to see evidence (if not "proof" ) of his role.

Note: I said ROLE, not ALIGNMENT.

Yeesh.

[triggercut]

You bigmouth idiots running around removing any doubt as to who their targets are make *ME* wonder what your motivation is. Team evil, if the riddler is dead TODAY, may not have the ability to know Tru1cy's role, therefore it stands to reason that with some shadow of doubt, that mistakes can be made. RMC has made no claim as of yet.

Frankly, Triggercut coming OUT was the only reason I didn't stay hidden (unless I was a target).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to the shooting order, look at the function of shooting, and the targets.

Two hawks are actually PROVEN when they shoot - so they should shoot the ambiguous target (evil - we don't know Grunds role).

The ambiguous shooter (GA) should shoot the PROVEN target, in order to prove Remus isn't lying (Superman or Riddler/Batman).

If Remus was evil / converted, he could go off and claim he shot any unknown / human and claim the shot was made (it was unclear as to whether mod event happens when GA shoots a human).

So I want to see Remus prove his role.
I also want to see Unagi / El Guapo prove their role.
My disabling superman for a lynch also makes sense, but since I know who I am, and no one is disputing my power, I don't really care.

BB can prove me good tomorrow, if that's what it means. It also means that BB will likely die tonight (no self-protect, slim chance of the Flash existing), and then I'll be targeted the next night if I still have a ring charge left (otherwise, I'm no more special than anyone else).

I *STILL* think it's stupid that we're shooting superman, since we're banking on no-convert on a deathless night 0, and so we're reducing our numbers for them. Sure, sure, he's the one most risky for us to remain alive - it's a game. I've not objected to the action though, and I've offered to facilitate it.

I've never wavered from that position, so any accusation of my alignment being other than good is going to be met with hostility.

Remember, I'm the histrionic purge. And when I'm good, and questioned, I go off. Feel free to check the record books on that - my time as Heimdall is a great example. And right now, I've spent too much time on this game.

If there is a power shutdown required, post it in bold. I'm not reading individual responses - clearly Remus doesn't think there is any question of his alignment, but his role (like mine) is not publicly proven.

Chaosraven: if Unagi waits much longer, can I just self-immolate?

[purge]

Wait.
What's the point or value to disabling Remus??

There isn't one.

You shoot a villain, he shoots superman.

Both you, el guapo, and remus show that you were assigned hero roles you claim to be.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Apparently Remus wants joker to go "boom". I disagree. The value of the claimed roles has helped us isolate the villains. The more people who are proven (at this point, it looks like LASSR and BB, and TRU1CY are the only ones who will be proven in alignment. (assuming a dead -good- superman, and a dead -evil- theohall).

Hunting Harley/two-face will be a chase to the end, but if there isn't a harley / two-face or we're lucky enough to bag them (keeping in mind that either Grund OR Theo may actually be the role they claim, and were converted), then this should go a lot better.

Unfortunately our powers will all have been spent, and then it boils down to a students exercise in WW lynching/night kills.

[triggercut]

Dear purge:

Here's what you seem to fail to grasp about the play today:

No one is going to be "proved" as good and still stay alive. It isn't going to happen that way. Green Arrow can shoot a badguy, Hawks can kill Superman to deny him to the Badguys, and it proves nothing about the FACTION of Green Arrow or the two Hawks. It proves their roles...but we've already kind of accepted that.

This game, with the transfer of powers after conversion means that no one is "proven".

Your claim of being Green Lantern is nice. I think that's who you are.

But realize this: your voting record does more to make me think you're a Goodguy than your claimed role--or any proof of that role--does.

So.

Today's play is killing two badguys and insuring that there's no chance for Evil to convert Superman and have an automatic backdoor win. That's it.

[bb2112]

I will not use my power on Remus.

I want to see evidence (if not "proof" ) of his role.

Note: I said ROLE, not ALIGNMENT.

Yeesh.

This is what I wanted. If Purge just wanted to prove himself, he could have jumped at my offer. If he is looking for us to use our shots on someone other than Superman, than it is either bad play, or team evil throwing the hail mary. I think he has realized he has lost the argument on Supes being shot. We just can't take the chance that he is lying and we go to night with Supes still alive, especially after we have used up our shots. If his motivation is to prove himself and be a valuable addition to the JLA, then you would think he might capitulate to my plan. Or at least say something along the lines of, "I don't agree with it, but if that is what everyone wants." It does give him the validation he is seeking in proving to the group he is GL.

By his refusing to go along with my suggestion, it shows that either frustration has set in, and his "good" judgment is compromised, or he is a villain.

My suggestion for today.

1. Hawks shoot Superman - (please, please, please submit this order so we can stop this particular merry-go-round)
2. GA shoots Grund - who is desperate to make it to night
3. We lynch Purge - who doesn't like my GA plan to prove himself, when he claims that is all he wants to do

The only thing we may want to do different would be to reverse the shots. GA can guarantee a kill to Supes, but can't if he hits Two-Face or Croc. Which Grund could be either. By reversing, we guarantee Grunds death regardless of role. But I will bow to the will of the people on that one.

[Mr Bubbles]

Sorry for the absence. Real life got in the way, well work at least. It's the first week of the quarter and it's been crazy, but I'm catching up. What a time to miss, with the mass outings. Of course I'm sure evils are hiding in plain sight. Interesting stuff.. I am hoping to catch up today.

[Austin]

[Unagi]

If Superman comes back Converted - then I would look at Purge.

I really don't think purge is evil.
I really don't think Remus is evil.
I really don't think triggercut is evil.

It would be fantastic if we:
1) all shared that opinion
2) could muster up the guts to act on them, to maximize the effectiveness of this day.

Sadly, I don't see Remus being able to let go of his vision right now.
I don't see purge being able to relax enough to set peoples minds at ease.


It would be great if we could:

--Hawk Kill Grund
--Arrow "Kill" a Green Lantern disabled Austin (I believe that would catch TwoFace?)
--Lynch a Green Lantern disabled Isgrimnur (I believe that would catch TwoFace?)



Any chance of that, guys?

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

[purge]

*Your* plan, BB?

WTF is your plan? You mean, like the one I laid out way back when I was still hidden?

Clearly, you didn't read my list of things to do:

1. Shoot superman with green arrow.
   Superman dies - Remus' claim to being Green Arrow is validated. This does NOT validate alignment (esp. considering the act of killing a hero).
   Superman comes back good - tru1cy is good (proven ALIGNMENT, not ROLE).
2. Shoot Theohall or Grund with Hawkshot (with disablement from me for Grund)
   Either target has merit :
   a) Riddler is a scanner of sorts, so if he dies today he can't validate the mass outing for the villains
   b) Grund is an unknown entity
3. Lynch either the other villain, Austin (presuming grund/theo come back evil), or Isgrimnur (who had both of our villains off his train)
4. I get your protection, and scan, tonight, so you can rest easy knowing I'm good (assuming you don't die tonight).
5. Assuming I make it through to tomorrow, I have two charges left, and can disable the next lynch target.

How does that NOT comply with the rest of the JLA actions? The only thing I've switched up is using the GA to kill supes instead of hawkman. Hardly painting me with an evil brush.

Now *YOU'RE* calling for two supers to be killed (me and superman). And I'm the one who's got questionable motives? Let's see how this theo/grund thing turns out. Let
s just hope there's a cabin leak in the invisible jet and you've been inhaling fumes.

[Remus West]

Alright, I'm openly doubting purge but even I do not understand bb2112's thinking on that. Many of us have come out against the idea of having GL use his ability on me so how does his sharing that particular opinion make him Evil in your eyes?

[stessier]

[Lassr]

Waiting on the Hawk kryptonite coated mace to the face of Superman.

[purge]

If Superman comes back Converted - then I would look at Purge.

I really don't think purge is evil. I agree.
I really don't think Remus is evil. I agree.
I really don't think triggercut is evil. I agree.

It would be fantastic if we:
1) all shared that opinion Apparently I don't set people at ease.
2) could muster up the guts to act on them, to maximize the effectiveness of this day. I agree.

Sadly, I don't see Remus being able to let go of his vision right now. ... and I've agreed to a plan where triggercut dies only to placate his paralysis. Were my preference (which I've ALWAYS maintained), it's that I'm protected so that if another miss happens I can disable and we can kill Supes. The likelyhood of him being converted night 0 is 1 in ~12 (assuming 5 starting villains). The likelihood of a living Superman being killed/converted if available tonight? Pretty damned high.
I don't see purge being able to relax enough to set peoples minds at ease. Tell me what you need to set your mind at ease. I've been consistent. The only thing setting people off is my comfort with letting Supes live (as I'm not really worried about his invulnerability to a lynch - duh.)


It would be great if we could:

--Hawk Kill Grund I agree.
--Arrow "Kill" a Green Lantern disabled Austin (I believe that would catch TwoFace?) It would prevent a two-face hiding, a croc killing GA.
--Lynch a Green Lantern disabled Isgrimnur (I believe that would catch TwoFace?) It would prevent a two-face hiding, a bomb going off.


Any chance of that, guys? Heh. Remus doesn't trust me, so supes needs to die. :shrug: I'm not disabling your shot, or GAs.

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

Answers in-line in red.

Either way, let me know what you shooters decide, and if you want me to use my powers. I've made my position very clear, and if you aren't clear on it, ask politely and I will strive to answer whatever question you may have. Feel free to peruse the history. I've made counting errors and several misunderstandings of the roles, but other than that, I think you'll find I've been pretty consistent.

[Unagi]

Who even came up with the exceptionally poor idea of turning off Remus' power? I missed that.

[Unagi]

Any chance of that, guys?

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

Remus?
El Guapo?
Triggercut?

[Remus West]

Any chance of that, guys?

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

Remus?
El Guapo?
Triggercut?

I'm just waiting on you and the little lady to remove the man of steel. You do that part I'll shot who you want. I doubt Austin is Evil just to many eggs in one basket for Grund to have named two Evil guys but I'll shoot him if you'd like. I'll shoot Grund if you'd like (much more happily that Austin). What I would really like though is to read the write up regarding triggercut so that we can be 100% sure of where we stand regarding his potential conversion before making our final decisions regarding the rest of the choices today.

[Remus West]

Oh, and I don't know if Joker is in the game or not or if he has used the conversion or not but I think it best to cover as many bases as possible with each action.

[Unagi]

Any chance of that, guys?

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

Remus?
El Guapo?
Triggercut?

I'm just waiting on you and the little lady to remove the man of steel. You do that part I'll shot who you want. I doubt Austin is Evil just to many eggs in one basket for Grund to have named two Evil guys but I'll shoot him if you'd like. I'll shoot Grund if you'd like (much more happily that Austin). What I would really like though is to read the write up regarding triggercut so that we can be 100% sure of where we stand regarding his potential conversion before making our final decisions regarding the rest of the choices today.

OK, so - that's a big "NO, No Chance"

I was asking if you could get over the whole Triggercut was converted or could be converted tonight fear.

[Unagi]

Oh, and I don't know if Joker is in the game or not or if he has used the conversion or not but I think it best to cover as many bases as possible with each action.

And I'm just a little more of a 'go for it' kind of guy.
guess you just don't have it in ya.

You know, you will be forever alone with that approach in life.... Just look at how happy Hawkwoman and I are. Do you think I had some reservations? Oh Fuck Yes. (sorry honey), but you know - it's worked out for us...




So, you can't make this leap then Remus ??? Just say 'No, I can't', and I will put in my 'order'

(which, BTW, I think is something I (and Hawkwoman) am to do right here in the game thread... )

[purge]

I'm just waiting on you and the little lady to remove the man of steel. You do that part I'll shot who you want. I doubt Austin is Evil just to many eggs in one basket for Grund to have named two Evil guys but I'll shoot him if you'd like. I'll shoot Grund if you'd like (much more happily that Austin). What I would really like though is to read the write up regarding triggercut so that we can be 100% sure of where we stand regarding his potential conversion before making our final decisions regarding the rest of the choices today.

OK, so - that's a big "NO, No Chance"

I was asking if you could get over the whole Triggercut was converted or could be converted tonight fear.

And he still ignores my request that if Supes is shot, it should be HIM shooting superman. See, he's not on-board with the group, which makes me mistrust him further.

[purge]

Don't do it man. If he wants superman dead so bad, let him do it.

Then you can shoot one of the villains. Let me know your target first, and I'll gladly disable them.

[Lassr]

Any chance of that, guys?

That's basically under the premise that we think that Joker may have used his power and if not, is one of the onese we would be killing (or not in the game)

Anyone???

Remus?
El Guapo?
Triggercut?

I'm just waiting on you and the little lady to remove the man of steel. You do that part I'll shot who you want. I doubt Austin is Evil just to many eggs in one basket for Grund to have named two Evil guys but I'll shoot him if you'd like. I'll shoot Grund if you'd like (much more happily that Austin). What I would really like though is to read the write up regarding triggercut so that we can be 100% sure of where we stand regarding his potential conversion before making our final decisions regarding the rest of the choices today.

OK, so - that's a big "NO, No Chance"

I was asking if you could get over the whole Triggercut was converted or could be converted tonight fear.

I'm almost positive that Grund is a converted Dr Fate but would I be willing to risk losing the game on it, No.

If, we skipped the Superman shot and went with Grund and he is evil and then lynched Theohall, and then there is no kill tonight. Either a block or a conversion. We then save our last shot for SUperman just to be sure..uh oh, Remus was really team evil and NOT a hero. We lose.

Superman must die now by the first shot, just in case the 2nd shot is a ruse.

[Unagi]

Don't do it man. If he wants superman dead so bad, let him do it.

Then you can shoot one of the villains. Let me know your target first, and I'll gladly disable them.

You are endlessly antagonistic.

[purge]

No. I could have already disabled GA's shot, and controlled his ability to even kill anyone today. I haven't. Were I to disable yours, your shot would be WASTED.


Antagonistic would have been to do what I wanted when I wanted, and stuck Remus' nose in it. Were I converted evil, I would have already done so, and he would have died tonight.

So there.

[Remus West]

purge, you are an idiot. Are you really doubting that the FIRST shooter to announce his role - with absolutely no pressure on him to do so - is lying about his ability to shoot? Stupid. I ignore your request that I shoot Superman because your plans have thus far all been about trying to get both shots gone and trust in you to help us lynch Superman. Not going to happen.


For Unagi:
No, I can't.

If you, Unagi, prefer I be the one to shoot Superman then just say so but which ever of us is going to do it should be Han.

[Unagi]

No. I could have already disabled GA's shot, and controlled his ability to even kill anyone today. I haven't. Were I to disable yours, your shot would be WASTED.

Antagonistic would have been to do what I wanted when I wanted, and stuck Remus' nose in it. Were I converted evil, I would have already done so, and he would have died tonight.

So there.

You are antagonistic, just not a sabatuer.

[purge]

. . . and were it not for the risk of losing a day shot, I would have just sent in the order to stop GA. I believe it was BB who suggested it, to answer your earlier question.

I'd rather see him shoot superman to alleviate his own concern, and then for you and I do do real hero work, rather than killing off good people out of fear.

See, scary thing is this: what if Grund dies good? No protection (as BB would be lying, Theo happens to be a bigger f*-up than I can be), then we're really up shit's creek. This is why I want Grund killed first, because we have yet to actually PROVE anyone evil.

But hey, one of our shooters is pissing his pants over SuperHarley, when we could still lose by MANY OTHER WAYS, including a two-face successfully leading the village to ruin, or, perhaps, a parasite who's about to get a shot at killing day-after-tomorrow if Remus dies.

Nobody is thinking ahead here, and you all think I'm doing this to yank chains. Look ahead, because these powers are all being used Day 2, but there is still (best case) two more villains to kill, if not 3 or 4. Perhaps even 5, given how many heroes there are. And some of those players are REALLY GOOD at not being found, and since we have one scanner who's done his work, and another who is likely a night target, we're going to be going blindly forwards.

CR, I apologize if this is a repeated question - The only reveal of a Role on a lynch is through Batman, correct? Does this hold true for daytime killings as well? (Joker bomb, GA shot, Hawk Shot, Croc kill on GA)?

[purge]

No. I could have already disabled GA's shot, and controlled his ability to even kill anyone today. I haven't. Were I to disable yours, your shot would be WASTED.

Antagonistic would have been to do what I wanted when I wanted, and stuck Remus' nose in it. Were I converted evil, I would have already done so, and he would have died tonight.

So there.

You are antagonistic, just not a sabatuer.

Sabotage would be ruining - I would simply be delaying Remus.

[Lassr]

. . . and were it not for the risk of losing a day shot, I would have just sent in the order to stop GA. I believe it was BB who suggested it, to answer your earlier question.

I'd rather see him shoot superman to alleviate his own concern, and then for you and I do do real hero work, rather than killing off good people out of fear.

See, scary thing is this: what if Grund dies good? No protection (as BB would be lying, Theo happens to be a bigger f*-up than I can be), then we're really up shit's creek. This is why I want Grund killed first, because we have yet to actually PROVE anyone evil.

But hey, one of our shooters is pissing his pants over SuperHarley, when we could still lose by MANY OTHER WAYS, including a two-face successfully leading the village to ruin, or, perhaps, a parasite who's about to get a shot at killing day-after-tomorrow if Remus dies.

Nobody is thinking ahead here, and you all think I'm doing this to yank chains. Look ahead, because these powers are all being used Day 2, but there is still (best case) two more villains to kill, if not 3 or 4. Perhaps even 5, given how many heroes there are. And some of those players are REALLY GOOD at not being found, and since we have one scanner who's done his work, and another who is likely a night target, we're going to be going blindly forwards.

CR, I apologize if this is a repeated question - The only reveal of a Role on a lynch is through Batman, correct? Does this hold true for daytime killings as well? (Joker bomb, GA shot, Hawk Shot, Croc kill on GA)?

We should get, evil, good or normal on lynches. Sure we won't know roles but we never do without a coroner type role...Is that what you were asking?

[Lassr]

. . . and were it not for the risk of losing a day shot, I would have just sent in the order to stop GA. I believe it was BB who suggested it, to answer your earlier question.

I'd rather see him shoot superman to alleviate his own concern, and then for you and I do do real hero work, rather than killing off good people out of fear.

See, scary thing is this: what if Grund dies good? No protection (as BB would be lying, Theo happens to be a bigger f*-up than I can be), then we're really up shit's creek. This is why I want Grund killed first, because we have yet to actually PROVE anyone evil.

But hey, one of our shooters is pissing his pants over SuperHarley, when we could still lose by MANY OTHER WAYS, including a two-face successfully leading the village to ruin, or, perhaps, a parasite who's about to get a shot at killing day-after-tomorrow if Remus dies.

Nobody is thinking ahead here, and you all think I'm doing this to yank chains. Look ahead, because these powers are all being used Day 2, but there is still (best case) two more villains to kill, if not 3 or 4. Perhaps even 5, given how many heroes there are. And some of those players are REALLY GOOD at not being found, and since we have one scanner who's done his work, and another who is likely a night target, we're going to be going blindly forwards.

CR, I apologize if this is a repeated question - The only reveal of a Role on a lynch is through Batman, correct? Does this hold true for daytime killings as well? (Joker bomb, GA shot, Hawk Shot, Croc kill on GA)?

We should get, evil, good or normal on lynches. Sure we won't know roles but we never do without a coroner type role...Is that what you were asking?

misread, you are asking if we learn that info on killing other than lynch...

[Unagi]

but which ever of us is going to do it should be Han.

Han?
Han Solo ?

[Chaosraven]

Results on Lynch: Hero, Villain, Normal. Results of Death thru any other means: none.

[purge]

Remus, if at this point you think I'm evil, then act upon it. If you're good it will be the next step towards Remucide. Trig can die today regardless. Whether it be your shot, Unagi's or even a lynch.

Frankly, were I a villain, I could also disable your shot, then when you went to take the shot it would have not gone off, and called you out for being a liar. I also wouldn't have outed myself - I wouldn't need to lead you to ruin.

Who knows, perhaps Newcastle's trainride to be proven on day 1 is because he's evil. Go for it. Shoot Trig with my blessing. Or, shoot whomsoever you feel like shooting.

Better I convince a river to flow upstream. You know best - BB said it - you're a great player. Team evil surely is quaking in their boots.

[purge]

Results on Lynch: Hero, Villain, Normal. Results of Death thru any other means: none.

Hooray!!!! Blind killing!!!

[Unagi]

Results on Lynch: Hero, Villain, Normal. Results of Death thru any other means: none.

Remus,
What say you now?

[purge]