OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[El Guapo]

Huh. So killing Supes via shot still serves some purpose since it takes the converted Supes doomsday weapon off the table. But killing Grund (say) via shot no longer serves as much purpose since that would do nothing to prove the Grund-Theohall vs. bb2112 part. Not that I think there's a ton of doubt on that, but it's still good to get concrete proof.

Maybe it makes more sense then for us Hawks to kill Supes, have WW protect Remus, we lynch one of Grund / Theo (probably Grund), then Remus shoots tomorrow?

[purge]

... or remus shoots one of the two most likely "human" targets.

Trusting Remus actually SHOOTS, and they live, then we would have proof if they were human. (I'd be disabling them first, of course).

[Lassr]

wouldn't it be perfect if Unagi, El Guapo and Purge were team evil...

[Unagi]

Maybe it makes more sense then for us Hawks to kill Supes, have WW protect Remus, we lynch one of Grund / Theo (probably Grund), then Remus shoots tomorrow?

That's an idea.

His shot tomorrow won't reveal anything either....
Although - I will point out that it still can Prove a Normal.

I say we prove Austin or Isgrimnur with his arrow.

(And there is no real reason to wait for that, we could wait until we see if Grund Lynches as a Villain... but - meh, he is.)

[Lassr]

but I agree that not knowing what Grund is would be a hindrance going forward.

[Unagi]

wouldn't it be perfect if Unagi, El Guapo and Purge were team evil...

Not really even a chance of that... in that - they couldn't possibly have converted BOTH HAWKS.

[purge]

I've done a ton of talking, asked important questions, and all in all, I've been a pretty fair contributor to this process.

Wake me when you all decide what the frakk you're going to do. Take a vote. See who says what. This is not a decision that should be taken lightly, and getting people's buy-in will also be a fair indicator as to their alignment (or attempt at masking it). Sure, there is only three people (plus me) that can actually *do* anything, but at this time we should step back and let the liars dance, the humans speak up, and stop giving them all a bye in this process.

My guns? Stuck by em. They might go off in my pants occasionally, but at least they're consistent.

Back to until later this evening (unless I pop in and someone has done something so ridiculous that I come back swinging).

[bb2112]

Results on Lynch: Hero, Villain, Normal. Results of Death thru any other means: none.

[/quote]

WTF

You gotta be kidding me. So we wont be able to tell what the results of a shot are????

[Lassr]

wouldn't it be perfect if Unagi, El Guapo and Purge were team evil...

Not really even a chance of that... in that - they couldn't possibly have converted BOTH HAWKS.

no, I'm just talking about you guys faking it trying to get us to waste Remus shot so Superman could be converted. Far fetched but possible.

Hey, I just a normal sitting back and watching...my mind wanders sometimes.

[El Guapo]

... or remus shoots one of the two most likely "human" targets.

Trusting Remus actually SHOOTS, and they live, then we would have proof if they were human. (I'd be disabling them first, of course).

I'd prefer that Remus shoot first generally. HOWEVER, if we are holding off one shot until tomorrow it has to be GA's, since otherwise Team Evil could defuse the Hawks shot by killing / converting me or Unagi, and we can't protect both of us (unless Flash comes out of the wood works ).

[purge]

wouldn't it be perfect if Unagi, El Guapo and Purge were team evil...

Pretty dumb of me to fight AGAINST killing superman, have worked to prove the math from Theo wrong, have maintained a Grund kill, questioned BB's alliance, AND having GL powers, AND two converted (or at least one) converted hawk then, isn't it?

Next I'll out myself as the goddamned Wolverine.

[tru1cy]

The virtual lack of information gain by using the shots is a bit disconcerting

[Lassr]

wouldn't it be perfect if Unagi, El Guapo and Purge were team evil...

Pretty dumb of me to fight AGAINST killing superman, have worked to prove the math from Theo wrong, have maintained a Grund kill, questioned BB's alliance, AND having GL powers, AND two converted (or at least one) converted hawk then, isn't it?

Next I'll out myself as the goddamned Wolverine.

Dude, did I say I believed what I said?

[Chaosraven]

I reiterate: death will be DeadPlayer name only for any death other than a Lynch. In the case of the Roles being discussed here, a shot by Green Arrow that targets a Hero or Villain will result in a Writeup of DeadPlayerX. A shot by GA that targets a Normal will result only in a PM to Green Arrow. A kill by the Hawks that proclaim 'I AM HAWK AND WE KILL' (PLAYERX) will result in a Writeup involving Named Hawks and DeadPlayerX. No roles, no alignment for death other than Lynches.

[Unagi]

Wake me when you all decide what the frakk you're going to do.

We will.

Now please, just go the fuck back to sleep.

[purge]

... or remus shoots one of the two most likely "human" targets.

Trusting Remus actually SHOOTS, and they live, then we would have proof if they were human. (I'd be disabling them first, of course).

I'd prefer that Remus shoot first generally. HOWEVER, if we are holding off one shot until tomorrow it has to be GA's, since otherwise Team Evil could defuse the Hawks shot by killing / converting me or Unagi, and we can't protect both of us (unless Flash comes out of the wood works ).

There really is no benefit in holding the shot till tomorrow.

There is a high likelihood that either Remus or I is killed / converted, so tomorrow means we can't disable or shoot the target. Superman is either evil or not, and since we won't know either way unless we hang him (and I'm 85% sure he isn't evil), then the hawks should just shoot him.

We'll just have to trust remus to actually be good, and will take the shot on the intended target, and hope to see a claimed (and GL disabled) human die to green arrow (which will only happen if they are evil, even two-face).

So we need to have, you know, that faith that he lacks so much of.

[purge]

Wake me when you all decide what the frakk you're going to do.

We will.

Now please, just go the fuck back to sleep.

Damn replies while I write keep me back in.

So several things:

For Unagi:

Spoiler:

For Remus:

Spoiler:

(edited to put in img tags)
G'night.

[bb2112]

Huh. So killing Supes via shot still serves some purpose since it takes the converted Supes doomsday weapon off the table. But killing Grund (say) via shot no longer serves as much purpose since that would do nothing to prove the Grund-Theohall vs. bb2112 part. Not that I think there's a ton of doubt on that, but it's still good to get concrete proof.

Maybe it makes more sense then for us Hawks to kill Supes, have WW protect Remus, we lynch one of Grund / Theo (probably Grund), then Remus shoots tomorrow?

I suggested Purge cancel Remus' shot earlier because I wanted to see if Purge really was GL or just spoofing to get us to try and lynch Superman. His eager to help on the lynch of Superman, but uneager to help in any other fashion that could prove himself is why I think he is evil. Or severly misguided to the point of being dangerous. Either way, why not lynch him.

Anyway, with the new information that shots do not reveal the alignment of the deader, then maybe revisit the plan a little.

1. Hawk People - Shoot Supes
2. Have Purge disable GA - Proves Purge is not lying about GL and therefore is most likely good at this juncture
3a. GA tries to shoot Grund. Shot does not go off. - Proves Purge is just delusional, not evil
4. Lynch Grund (Get evil alignment - prove I'm not lying)
5. I protect GA
6. I most likely die for God and country
7. We have GA's shot for tomorrow

or

1. Hawk People - Shoot Supes
2. Have Purge disable GA - Purge can't because he is not really GL
3a. GA tries to shoot Grund. Shot goes off. - Proves Purge was lying and is on team evil trying to pull off the hail mary.
4. Lynch Purge (Get evil alignment - prove I'm not lying)
5. I protect my shampoo or whoever the group would like
6. I most likely die for God and country

I think this accomplishes just about everything. It short circuits the invincible Superman. It proves Hawks, GL, GA, Grund (as evil and by default Theo), and Myself as WW.

What am I missing folks?

[Unagi]

What am I missing folks?

Keep in mind, if you actually protect an attacked player - we will all go ape-shit-convert crazy.

NOT GOOD

[Unagi]

In fact, No Plan should bank on protection --- AND we may even want to have GL disable bb2112 - just to be certain he can't accidentally protect someone.

(Unless you have the option to Protect: No One, which would be most preferred)

[Unagi]

I'm sorry - but is Remus actually trying to teach people today??

[triggercut]

What does purge prove by using his power to prevent GA from shooting Grund?

He proves he's Green Lantern. Great.

He doesn't prove that he's on Team Evil or Team Good.

Thanks to Theohall's admission that he's not Batman last night, anyone still on Team Evil is looking for whatever cover they can find, including happily helping with offing Grundbegriff and theohall.

I think we learn nothing of real use from having purge use his power.

[bb2112]

What am I missing folks?

Keep in mind, if you actually protect an attacked player - we will all go ape-shit-convert crazy.

NOT GOOD

You already are. What's the difference?

[bb2112]

What does purge prove by using his power to prevent GA from shooting Grund?

He proves he's Green Lantern. Great.

He doesn't prove that he's on Team Evil or Team Good.

Thanks to Theohall's admission that he's not Batman last night, anyone still on Team Evil is looking for whatever cover they can find, including happily helping with offing Grundbegriff and theohall.

I think we learn nothing of real use from having purge use his power.

We learn if Purge can't perform the GL power, then he is spoofing GL. Therefore he is a confirmed evil.

If he can perform GL's power, then you are no worse off than you are now.

[triggercut]

No need to "disable" Wonder Woman tonight.

Even if after "only" killing me and only taking out Grund or theo today the math at best will be 10 goodguys, 4 villains. They know they're going to lose at least one villain in the following turn; if they try to dupe us with a no kill or by killing an announced protected target, then it's 10-3 tomorrow at least, and perhaps 10-2...and the math is very bad for those 2 left to stay allive.

They can't get fancy and goofy. They need kills.

[triggercut]

What does purge prove by using his power to prevent GA from shooting Grund?

He proves he's Green Lantern. Great.

He doesn't prove that he's on Team Evil or Team Good.

Thanks to Theohall's admission that he's not Batman last night, anyone still on Team Evil is looking for whatever cover they can find, including happily helping with offing Grundbegriff and theohall.

I think we learn nothing of real use from having purge use his power.

We learn if Purge can't perform the GL power, then he is spoofing GL. Therefore he is a confirmed evil.

If he can perform GL's power, then you are no worse off than you are now.

That's a bafflingly terrible idea all around.

[bb2112]

That's a bafflingly terrible idea all around.

Splain

[Remus West]

but which ever of us is going to do it should be Han.

Han?
Han Solo ?

Han shot first. Get it. Which ever of us is going to shoot Superman should shoot first. Ha ha ha.

[bb2112]

but which ever of us is going to do it should be Han.

Han?
Han Solo ?

Han shot first. Get it. Which ever of us is going to shoot Superman should shoot first. Ha ha ha.

Absolutely. Supes gets offed before anything else happens.

[coopasonic]

Things got interesting.

I take it back. This is boring. Can we kill someone? I'm really not liking all of the personal attacks. This is supposed to be fun and the name calling isn't.

[Chaosraven]

MEANWHILE, BACK AT JUSTICE LEAGUE HEADQUARTERS ... The Heroes had devolved into a 'He started it' verbal sparring.

[triggercut]

That's a bafflingly terrible idea all around.

Splain

I'm not in favor of letting either evildoer survive the day.

[Remus West]

I'm sorry - but is Remus actually trying to teach people today??

Yes, but my planning period is coming up soon so I'll be able to fully read the new stuff and ponder what to do with the shots knowing we get crap in return other than a corpse.

[triggercut]

Whatever, folks.

Here's some more braindump:

1. If they have The Joker, he used his power on night one. If not, they'd have converted Qantaga on Night Two. They killed him.

2. Grundbegriff's raging about being able to "prove" himself as Dr. Fate tells me that he is indeed Dr. Fate, and was the night one convert. Dr. Fate can prove his role, but not his faction, by sending his word out.

3. purge's presence prominently promoting the voting of both Grundbegriff and theohall to the gallows tells me that he's on Team Goodguy, he's just unable to not look evil, try though he might.

4. Grundbegriff is not the Joker.

5. Isgrimnur, who when last heard from was saying "Sure, go ahead and lynch me, I don't have a role" might be.

[Lassr]

Whatever, folks.

Here's some more braindump:

1. If they have The Joker, he used his power on night one. If not, they'd have converted Qantaga on Night Two. They killed him.

2. Grundbegriff's raging about being able to "prove" himself as Dr. Fate tells me that he is indeed Dr. Fate, and was the night one convert. Dr. Fate can prove his role, but not his faction, by sending his word out.

3. purge's presence prominently promoting the voting of both Grundbegriff and theohall to the gallows tells me that he's on Team Goodguy, he's just unable to not look evil, try though he might.

4. Grundbegriff is not the Joker.

5. Isgrimnur, who when last heard from was saying "Sure, go ahead and lynch me, I don't have a role" might be.

and I can't argue with that. I think we will be fine if we let you live. It's according to how much you want to gamble. This early with this large lead I'm less willing to gamble. If it was closer to the end game and killing you could do more harm than risking keeping you alive I would be more apt to gamble.

How many gambler do we have? Or more important, Remus, do you feel lucky?

[bb2112]

That's a bafflingly terrible idea all around.

Splain

I'm not in favor of letting either evildoer survive the day.

This made no sense. Thanks for explaining nothing.

I probably protected the target on night 1.

I've handed you two evil doers on day 2.

I have potentially handed you Austin. Or at least another high level suspect.

And I still think Purge is lying, but found a way to prove him one way or the other.

You would think you would at least try to post with a little respect. But I see that is not your way.

Coop is right. This is getting very old and not going anywhere. You guys are all stuck in analysis paralysis.

Somebody shoot Trig in the face already. At this point I don't care who it is.

[triggercut]

That's a bafflingly terrible idea all around.

Splain

I'm not in favor of letting either evildoer survive the day.

This made no sense. Thanks for explaining nothing.

I probably protected the target on night 1.

I've handed you two evil doers on day 2.

I have potentially handed you Austin. Or at least another high level suspect.

And I still think Purge is lying, but found a way to prove him one way or the other.

You would think you would at least try to post with a little respect. But I see that is not your way.

Coop is right. This is getting very old and not going anywhere. You guys are all stuck in analysis paralysis.

Somebody shoot Trig in the face already. At this point I don't care who it is.

Easy there. I think you're playing this wrong, and I think your read on purge is terribly incorrect, but I didn't get disrespectful or personal.

[triggercut]

Whatever, folks.

Here's some more braindump:

1. If they have The Joker, he used his power on night one. If not, they'd have converted Qantaga on Night Two. They killed him.

2. Grundbegriff's raging about being able to "prove" himself as Dr. Fate tells me that he is indeed Dr. Fate, and was the night one convert. Dr. Fate can prove his role, but not his faction, by sending his word out.

3. purge's presence prominently promoting the voting of both Grundbegriff and theohall to the gallows tells me that he's on Team Goodguy, he's just unable to not look evil, try though he might.

4. Grundbegriff is not the Joker.

5. Isgrimnur, who when last heard from was saying "Sure, go ahead and lynch me, I don't have a role" might be.

and I can't argue with that. I think we will be fine if we let you live. It's according to how much you want to gamble. This early with this large lead I'm less willing to gamble. If it was closer to the end game and killing you could do more harm than risking keeping you alive I would be more apt to gamble.

How many gambler do we have? Or more important, Remus, do you feel lucky?

Can't happen that way, sadly. What if I'm wrong? Seems like a stretch, but what if purge is Clayface and the Joker is out there and just waiting to convert and they kill Remus? It's a longshot, but it's enough of a risk that I don't think it's worth rolling the dice on.

EDIT: not a "stretch" that I'm wrong; that's quite likely, as that's just one scenario. I meant the scenario of purge as Clayface and dead Remus as a stretch.

[RMC]

In fact, No Plan should bank on protection --- AND we may even want to have GL disable bb2112 - just to be certain he can't accidentally protect someone.

(Unless you have the option to Protect: No One, which would be most preferred)

Why do we give a shit about proving Green lantern, at the expense of a scan/protect???

And since when is it bad to block a kill from team evil???

So what if we get no new information from the night phase, by not having a death from team evil. We have more than enough people that we suspect, and BB could prove someone else if he is alive the next morning???

I am not following some of this logic that people are using..

[Austin]

I have potentially handed you Austin. Or at least another high level suspect.

Wait wut? Is your true power thinking you are much better at this than you are? Or is it that I am so good that I appear to be evil to you?