OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[coopasonic]

Let us look back at the reveals. When I came forward there were no other players forward that were willing/able to address the Superman situation. As far as I knew on coming forward I had no choice but to prove myself by taking out Superman. When purge came forward EVERY other special claim had been made. Go back and read it. Everyone had come forward and made their claims. Then he comes in...<truncated by Coop>

Now you make me want to review the reveals, but gods all those pages...

So yes, Coop, I do think he could be Evil. Worst case scenario if we lynch him is we get more intel because right now I trust him not at all which means I have little faith in the results of my shot. If he dies good then I get to trust Isgrimnur fully. For me, it is a trade of at worst an erratic and oddly behaving ally for a certain ally. At best it removes an Evil that has been lying to us. I'd like to be certain.

My problem here is that if he comes back good, then you trust Isgrimnur... however I won't trust you or Isgrimnur. Knowing that you know that I *think* it makes me trust you. My head hurts.

Go ahead and string me up. It's not going to win us the game, but us bickering is killing it for the rest of the players.

You two are the only ones talking. Of the people left alive El Guapo is the only one other than you two that is known for being particularly talkative and he's been very quiet recently.

[coopasonic]

(though the conversion throws that for a loop a bit since the confirmed villains could have started out as good).

But if there was a conversion it was the first night and nothing meaningful was said at that point so there should be consistency in character.

[El Guapo]

(though the conversion throws that for a loop a bit since the confirmed villains could have started out as good).

But if there was a conversion it was the first night and nothing meaningful was said at that point so there should be consistency in character.

That's true. So I suppose Grund's posts are of the same value as theo's.

FWIW Remus is pretty trustworthy in my mind, just based on the fact that he pushed hard for all of the soft claims to reveal more info, which was a big part of the outing of Grund and (I think?) Theo. Not proven of course, but it'd be unnecessary for him to have played a big part in killing two villains. That implies that Isgrimnur is very likely to be human. So for now my focus is on:

Coopasonic
Mr Bubbles
RMC

I'm interested in what Remus is saying about purge, but I'll have to give that some more thought.

[Isgrimnur]

Last I checked, I was still human. I'd say lynch me, but that does nothing to prove Remus.

Lynching Remus proves me, but who really needs to do that at this point?

[purge]

No, Grims' death proves nothing to the group - it wouldn't even prove anything to me.

- if Remus = evil and never took a shot, and Grim = two-face then Grim's "normal" death NOW would not "prove" remus in my eyes. Him dying evil would certainly prove Remus evil, but I just think he's misguided.

As for what Remus thinks of me in terms of not understanding my actions - that doesn't make me evil, just confusing. And if you read back through my posts, I have hinted before (consider that I've never been onboard with panicking about Superharley - I had the remedy for the situation).

Read this post ... the "rings" was there on purpose, as was the womanizing behaviour.

I've been consistent in making statements about GL and what he can contribute, and then saying "if he exists" after the fact. In some early cases I think I even skipped out on the if - I didn't want to draw attention so that was always my focus.

Even in my suggested lottery (back when the village group wrongly assumed any death would reveal alignment), I had made room for me to disable targets.

Remus, do you now see? No? Then perhaps you either

A) don't want to see.
B) don't want others to see.


Feel free to peruse my posts. Here's a list by person, updated from Page53.

LIVING:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proven Special (good roles):
El Guapo Hawkwoman


Unproven Special (likely good):
Tru1cy "Special" per Superman, may be The Atom
Remus West - GA
Purge - GL
-----------
Lagom Lite - claimed Elongated man

Unproven Citizens:
Isgrimnur (only proven if Remus is GA from my perspective)

Coopasonic claimed citizen
Mr Bubbles claimed citizen
RMC claimed citizen - reticent to reveal.


DEAD:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good:
Unagi Hawkman
Austin Claimed citizen - disabled for lynch.
Qantaga Claimed citizen (supes), night 1 kill
bb2112 Wonderwoman, Night 2 kill


Unknown:
Today's lynch target if "normal".

Evil:
Theohall Riddler
Grundbegriff unknown role - possibly Dr. Fate/Harley, based on his assurances that he could deliver proof in two ways. Could have been converted Martian Manhunter, given that he could "fake" a psychic connection and act as Fate. Otherwise, could have just been a baddie.

[coopasonic]

No, Grims' death proves nothing to the group - it wouldn't even prove anything to me.

- if Remus = evil and never took a shot, and Grim = two-face then Grim's "normal" death NOW would not "prove" remus in my eyes. Him dying evil would certainly prove Remus evil, but I just think he's misguided.

Is there any case where a lynch tells us anything definitive about anyone else?

11) Lagom Lite - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
3) coopasonic - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
13) Mr Bubbles - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
16) RMC - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay

5) El Guapo - dies good: duh; dies evil: wtfx0r
8) tru1cy - dies good: duh (or two face); dies evil: wtfx0r trig

2) Isgrimnur - dies good: oops (or two face); dies evil: Remus!!!!
6) Remus West - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
10) purge - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay

I tried to limit this to absolutely certain conclusions. There are inferences to be made, but the only certain conclusion about another person would come from Izzy dying and coming back evil. Nothing else tells us anything *certain* about anyone else.

The real knot is betwee Izzy, Remus and purge, but if everything is above board and all three are good it's a huge waste of a lynch.

[Remus West]

If El Guapo dies Evil then you've found Harley not wtfx0r. I don't see a need to look there right now.
If tru1cy dies Evil then we've found Harley (She would have had to have been Superman).

Either of them dying good tells us nothing.

[coopasonic]

If El Guapo dies Evil then you've found Harley not wtfx0r. I don't see a need to look there right now.
If tru1cy dies Evil then we've found Harley (She would have had to have been Superman).

Either of them dying good tells us nothing.

I mean any result that finds us something useful about someone still alive.

[purge]

Upon closer inspection the cosplay stuff came off easily, and he was in fact a NORMAL.

Yeah, your list? It's incomplete. Were I lynched, I would not come up normal.

It is:
Hero - Normal - Villain

It is not:
Good - Bad

So you should rethink that entire post, and work out Lagom, Myself, Remus, Tru1cy as having different results. If any show up normal, it proves them as two-face. If they show up villain, well, they are anyone but two-face.

Austin was the last proven good. From this point on, any lynched Normal has a chance of being two-face, but there is no reason Grund was not two-face either so he may also be not-present-or-dead.

The only one proven HERO is LadyHawke. Killing El Guapo would only take away the obvious kill for tonight.

[coopasonic]

OK let me try again:

Lagom Lite - dies hero: oops; dies normal: yay twoface ; dies villain: yay
coopasonic - dies hero: oops; dies normal: oops or yay twoface; dies villain: yay
Mr Bubbles - dies hero: oops; dies normal: oops or yay twoface; dies villain: yay
RMC - dies hero: oops; dies normal: oops or yay twoface; dies villain: yay

El Guapo - dies hero: duh; dies normal: not possible; dies villain: wtfx0r harley
tru1cy - dies hero: duh; dies normal: oops or yay twoface+wtfx0r trigharley; dies villain: wtfx0r trigharley

got distracted by work before getting through the important part (TBD):
Isgrimnur - dies hero: oops (or two face); dies villain: Remus!!!!
Remus West - dies hero: oops (or two face); dies villain: yay
purge - dies hero: oops (or two face); dies villain: yay

[RMC]

I think we need to focus on these guys:

11) Lagom Lite - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
3) coopasonic - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
13) Mr Bubbles - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay
16) RMC - dies good: oops (or two face); dies bad: yay

I am not on team evil, but no one but me knows that, as I was not scanned and team evil can go suck an egg.

I am guessing that Purge and Remus are still heroes, and did not get converted. I don't like that Remus shot a 'normal' and did not kill one of the bad guys to really prove him, but everyone else seemed to think it was a good idea. <shrug> So if we say they are good, then we really are pretty sure that the villains have to be in this number of 4. Not foolproof, but I think it is a good risk to think this...

I would prefer you not kill me as I am good. But if killing me will help you to lynch Mr. Bubbles or Coop, then I am fine with that. I don't know why I think LL is not a top prospect as he is one of the ones that came out as someone we could never prove...But it was a pretty big gamble for him to come out as someone that might have been in the game..

[Remus West]

RMC, you need to look back at when LL actually claimed a specific role.

[Mr Bubbles]

Considering how early Lagom came out and we backed off it would drive me crazy if he turned out evil. That being said I don't have a strong feeling on the group of us, so I will leave it up to the masses and join on the best option the proven have. I have no way to prove my innocence, but I would be willing to vote RMC, Lagom, or Coop, but that just shows how ambivalent I am.

[purge]

OK let me try again:

Isgrimnur - dies hero: WTF?; dies normal oops or two face; dies villain: Remus!!!!
Remus West - dies hero: duh; dies normal -two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?! + Grim??
Purge - dies hero: duh; dies normal - two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?!

[/quote]

Round 2 - this time I just made edits to correct the last part. Everything else I agree with.

[Isgrimnur]

I guess I'm just full of WTF possibilities.

[purge]

I guess I'm just full of WTF possibilities.

If anyone who was not an outed hero dies as a hero, you betcha it's a WTF moment.

[Chaosraven]

2 RMC - Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles,
2 Mr Bubbles - tru1cy, RMC

1 purge - Remus West
1 Lagom Lite - purge

no vote:
coopasonic
Isgrimnur
El Guapo

9 Players remain, Majority is 5

[purge]

9 Players remain

Really? Seems lower considering the contribution level.


Onto current vote:

2 RMC <<-------- Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles,
2 Mr Bubbles <<--- tru1cy, RMC

The irony isn't lost on me that the two "unprovable" specials have picked different targets, and both targets are in a TP.

I suppose I could TP remus so we'd have a matching set.

Coop, Grim - what do you think?

[Remus West]

I think lynching purge tells us, by far, the most. Failing that (as I seem to be the only one interested in pursuing that angle) I'll go ahead and follow path #2.

 Lagom Lite 
 

[coopasonic]

The irony isn't lost on me that the two "unprovable" specials have picked different targets, and both targets are in a TP.

I suppose I could TP remus so we'd have a matching set.

TP?

All I got is toilet paper and that's not making much sense. Is that some GTWW talk?

[Remus West]

The irony isn't lost on me that the two "unprovable" specials have picked different targets, and both targets are in a TP.

I suppose I could TP remus so we'd have a matching set.

TP?

All I got is toilet paper and that's not making much sense. Is that some GTWW talk?

triggercut principle. Voting for someone only because they are voting against you. I believe purge has used the term incorrectly here as all the involved parties presented reasons other than "he voted for me" for placing their votes but his meaning was clear if you knew what the tp stood for. He is just saying that you are all simply dance partners.

[Lagom Lite]

I think lynching purge tells us, by far, the most. Failing that (as I seem to be the only one interested in pursuing that angle) I'll go ahead and follow path #2.

 Lagom Lite 
 

You're all about killing specials today.

[Remus West]

I think lynching purge tells us, by far, the most. Failing that (as I seem to be the only one interested in pursuing that angle) I'll go ahead and follow path #2.

 Lagom Lite 
 

You're all about killing specials today.

I'm all about lynching those whose claims I do not buy into.

[Lagom Lite]

I think lynching purge tells us, by far, the most. Failing that (as I seem to be the only one interested in pursuing that angle) I'll go ahead and follow path #2.

 Lagom Lite 
 

You're all about killing specials today.

I'm all about lynching those whose claims I do not buy into.

Oh, you're no fun.

[RMC]

 Withdraw Mr Bubbles 
 


 Lagom Lite 
 


Remus makes the most sense. And after rereading I see that Lagom came out when he 'needed' too. Things that make you go Hmmm...

[coopasonic]

thanks

I'm just waiting to cast the kill vote on someone, anyone.

OK let me try again:
Isgrimnur - dies hero: Remus!!!!; dies normal oops or two face(if he's two face purge or remus are evil, but no way to tell); dies villain: Remus!!!!
Remus West - dies hero: duh; dies normal -two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?! + Grim??
Purge - dies hero: duh; dies normal - two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?!

Round 2 - this time I just made edits to correct the last part. Everything else I agree with.

One minor change, if izzy dies Hero, Remus is a liar.

I still don't know what to do.

[Remus West]

thanks

I'm just waiting to cast the kill vote on someone, anyone.

OK let me try again:
Isgrimnur - dies hero: Remus!!!!; dies normal oops or two face(if he's two face purge or remus are evil, but no way to tell); dies villain: Remus!!!!
Remus West - dies hero: duh; dies normal -two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?! + Grim??
Purge - dies hero: duh; dies normal - two face; dies villain: yay + WTF?!

Round 2 - this time I just made edits to correct the last part. Everything else I agree with.

One minor change, if izzy dies Hero, Remus is a liar.

I still don't know what to do.

Heh, if Izzy dies Hero not only am I a liar but he is an idiot for not already calling me out on it.

[purge]

It's also a WTF moment - Grim would also be a liar too - but why, since if he were Harley he's be all Villain on lynch.

So basically, infinitely improbable.

[coopasonic]

Yeah yeah, that's the problem with theoretical work, it doesn't always make sense.


It looks like we have momentum with 2/3 of the kinda sorta knowns on the same target so let's finish him.
 Lagom Lite 
 


N-1

[Lagom Lite]

I don't see how my coming out when I did is weird; what was I supposed to do? Let myself get lynched for no reason?

Still, I'm just Stretchy, and I've played out my role. Kill me if you must.

[coopasonic]

The when isn't the wierd, it's the how.

[Lagom Lite]

The irony isn't lost on me that the two "unprovable" specials have picked different targets, and both targets are in a TP.

I suppose I could TP remus so we'd have a matching set.

TP?

All I got is toilet paper and that's not making much sense. Is that some GTWW talk?

TP = Town Portal

[Mr Bubbles]

 Lagom Lite 
 

[purge]

The irony isn't lost on me that the two "unprovable" specials have picked different targets, and both targets are in a TP.

I suppose I could TP remus so we'd have a matching set.

TP?

All I got is toilet paper and that's not making much sense. Is that some GTWW talk?

TP = Town Portal

Remus is right, they're just dancing partners. It may be that the second TP'd but didn't list it as a TP.

I TP frequently. I've avoided it with Remus. It keeps rattling around in my head though :

A good remus is a dead remus.

[coopasonic]

A good remus is a dead remus.

But he's alive so he must be evil remus? If we kill him does he become good? Sounds like two-face.

[Chaosraven]

1 RMC - Lagom Lite
1 Mr Bubbles - tru1cy

5 Lagom Lite - purge, Remus West, RMC, coopasonic, Mr Bubbles

no vote:

Isgrimnur
El Guapo

9 Players remain, Majority is 5

[coopasonic]

1 RMC - Lagom Lite
1 Mr Bubbles - tru1cy

5 Lagom Lite - purge, Remus West, RMC, coopasonic, Mr Bubbles

no vote:

Isgrimnur
El Guapo

9 Players remain, Majority is 5

If there is more evil to be found, this vote isn't going to be much use. The people off the vote are the ones I wasn't worries about.

[Remus West]

1 RMC - Lagom Lite
1 Mr Bubbles - tru1cy

5 Lagom Lite - purge, Remus West, RMC, coopasonic, Mr Bubbles

no vote:

Isgrimnur
El Guapo

9 Players remain, Majority is 5

If there is more evil to be found, this vote isn't going to be much use. The people off the vote are the ones I wasn't worries about.

Which is, to me, why it is a very useful vote.

[Chaosraven]

(( insert stolen JLA picture from photobucket )) ... (( writeup of lynch )) ... LAGOM LITE WAS A VILLAIN ... (( insert Night Boilerplate )) ... (( go fix game title to Friday Night ))

[El Guapo]

Well, well, look at that.