[WW] Rogue Elements

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Grundbegriff
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[WW] Rogue Elements

Post by Grundbegriff »

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Team Isotope

The Leader: Polonium-210

You always wanted to be the center of a complex social circle. But your friends seem to abandon you when times get rough. Now you're mad, and you're aiming to get even.

Your goals are as follows:

(a) Avoid detection. Your enemies consider you unstable, and if they find you, there's no telling what they might do to you.

(b) On Sunday night, you secretly choose 4 other players (none on your team) and submit their names to the moderator. Get each member of your List of Four to vote against you twice. As soon as this happens, they'll all drop dead from radiation sickness-- if they're not dead already! Any of the Four who dies prematurely from some other cause counts toward your fulfillment of this condition.

(c) As soon as all the members of your List of Four are dead, you secretly choose 2 other players and submit their names to the moderator. Get each member of your List of Two to vote against you twice. As soon as this happens, they'll both drop dead from radiation sickness-- if they're not dead already! Any of the Two who dies prematurely from some other cause counts toward your fulfillment of this condition.

(d) As soon as both members of your List of Two are dead, you secretly choose 1 other player and submit his name to the moderator. Get the member of your List of One to vote against you twice. As soon as this happens, he'll drop dead from radiation sickness-- if he's not dead already! If he dies prematurely from some other cause, that fulfills this condition.

The Follower: Bismuth-209

Your goals are as follows:

(a') Avoid detection. Your enemies consider you risky, and if they find you, there's no telling what they might do to you.

(b') If Polonium-210 is detected and neutralized, you will be bombarded with neutrons and become bismuth-210. After one night and one day pass, you will decay into Polonium-210, assume ownership of the current List, and continue your partner's mission.

(c') Each night, you may select one other player (not on your team) and kill him. This power is non-transferable.

Members of Team Isotope know one another's identity, but they do not communicate privately.

Victory condition for Team Isotope: Fulfill conditions (a), (b), (c), and (d). Congratulations! At least one of you has become lead-206!

Team DIRE

You are the International Atomic Energy Agency's Directorate for the Interdiction of Rogue Elements. Your job is to detect and neutralize unstable materials that have been flagged as missing in the latest global inventory assessment.

Because you are bureaucrats driven by protocol, you meet thrice daily to point the finger at a fellow member of the directorate whom you suspect of collusion with violators of IAEA regulations. At each of these three meetings -- dawn, noon, and dusk -- you must vote against one of your fellows. In addition, you are welcome to point the finger outside the meetings! All in a day's work!

If at any of the meetings a majority is reached, that person will be tossed into the OWTBS chamber. The person's radioactivity will be objectively identified and measured at the cost of his life-- a small price to pay in detecting the nefarious schemes of rogue nations and bad neighbors!

At the dusk meeting, if it occurs, a majority must be reached. As soon as a majority is reached at any meeting and someone is tried in the OWTBS chamber, the turn proceeds immediately to night. Any later meetings that day are canceled.

During the night, Bismuth-209 (if alive) will kill someone.

Victory condition for Team DIRE: Throw Polonium-210 and Bismuth-209 into the OWTBS chamber.

Player needed: a dozen or more.
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stessier
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by stessier »

First - cool!
Second - 1 game at a time, bucko!
Third - it seems to be possible that the Radiants can lose and DIRE to lose. If the 4 on the first list are the last 4 alive, there will be no one to choose for Part C and D. Or perhaps I misunderstand?
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bb2112
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by bb2112 »

Very cool concept

I think by default b c & d would be met if the player pool is already killed off.

My fist thought is why would people ever double vote for someone? Everyone can just discuss and come to an agreement, then cast their votes at the same time.
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Grundbegriff
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by Grundbegriff »

bb2112 wrote:My fist thought is why would people ever double vote for someone? Everyone can just discuss and come to an agreement, then cast their votes at the same time.
Yes, there are still some holes. I wanted to type it out while it was fresh in my mind.

The multiple mandatory voting phases rules is intended to prevent a scenario in which everyone declines to vote, or one in which everyone colludes with "virtual" non-counting votes before safely voting.

What is needed is an additional rule or two. One to force people to mix it up a bit. One to prevent people from using the dawn vote as "the" vote, colluding before it happens, and then skirting the rule.

Perhaps holding all the meetings (even if someone's thrown into the hopper at dawn or noon) and requiring everyone to vote for three different people per day (or at least two different people per day) would help.

What I would want to avoid is catering to the calculists who might be inclined to develop a protocol for denying Po-210 and partner their shot at winning.

Ideas?

Edit: Since half-life is reached by random events, perhaps some (but not all) of the votes could be rolls of the dice! I wouldn't want to strip away all intentionality and responsibility, but maybe an admixture of randomness wouldn't hurt.
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bb2112
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by bb2112 »

I was thinking about your have to put out more than one vote per day idea. Although the random vote each day could be a good solution.

How about a secret vote sent to you at the beginning of each each day that cannot be discussed by the players. The vote does not count towards lynch, but does count towards the isotopes victory conditions. The secret vote has to be on a different person each day.

I'm also thinking 4 may be too many for the first victory condition. People are going to be very cautious about their votes since it may kill them. It could be potentially 4 days before you get a player to double vote on someone, and at that point there would 8 players out of the game.

Still musing...
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Grundbegriff
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by Grundbegriff »

bb2112 wrote:How about a secret vote sent to you at the beginning of each each day that cannot be discussed by the players. The vote does not count towards lynch, but does count towards the isotopes victory conditions. The secret vote has to be on a different person each day.
Interesting. And it could be a secret vote naming two, if necessary, to achieve the desired likelihood.
I'm also thinking 4 may be too many for the first victory condition.
My thoughts here:
(a) 4-2-1: I like the decay by halves.
(b) It's somewhat likely that members of the List of Four will be killed by night or thrown into the chamber. Since death counts toward fulfillment of the objectives, the achivement of garnering two votes from each member of the list isn't so daunting.
People are going to be very cautious about their votes since it may kill them. It could be potentially 4 days before you get a player to double vote on someone, and at that point there would 8 players out of the game.
The life/death balance is off. But there should be a sweet spot involving number of players, rate of inevitable death, and occurrence of votes leading to irradiation.
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Re: [WW] Rogue Elements

Post by bb2112 »

Grundbegriff wrote:
bb2112 wrote:How about a secret vote sent to you at the beginning of each each day that cannot be discussed by the players. The vote does not count towards lynch, but does count towards the isotopes victory conditions. The secret vote has to be on a different person each day.
Interesting. And it could be a secret vote naming two, if necessary, to achieve the desired likelihood.

The life/death balance is off. But there should be a sweet spot involving number of players, rate of inevitable death, and occurrence of votes leading to irradiation.
I agree the life death balance is off and by doing the secret vote it does seem to help correct the issue, but is it mathmatically enough. I don't think one secret vote a day is enough, yet two seems like too many. I say this without sitting down with sheet of paper and trying to figure out the math, it is just gut feel.

Possible solution. Maybe do one secret vote on odd days, and 2 on even. Or do a progression. 1 secret vote on day 1 and 2, 2 secret vots on day 2 and 3, 3 secret votes on day 4 and 5, and so on. I kind of like the progression idea. It would really spike some urgency to get the kills right as early as possible. Again, you may have to do some mathmatical models to get the ratios right, but this could work.

And please put deadlines. It is only logical with your half life theme anyway. :wink:
That's no reason to cry. One cries because one is sad. For example, I cry because others are stupid, and that makes me sad.
Why would I stab an Oracle? Wait, what am I saying? Why wouldn't I stab an Oracle? - Belkar Bitterleaf
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