Formula D League Race 2: Sebring

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:44 pm

Hey izzy's dice of doom didn't blow anything up this time!

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:39 pm

Nice. Right 1, forward 18. Last spot in the turn in the middle.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:52 pm

Done. Cunningham Corner complete.

NickAragua (Blue 2): gear selection, please.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:39 am

Looks like I'm going to 4th gear.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:16 am

Movement roll is 11.

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:17 am

Ten forward, two right.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:11 pm

Done.

hentzau (White 2): gear selection, please.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:22 pm

5th gear when it gets to me.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:22 pm

Let's just try and finish this race. 4th please.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:24 pm

hentzau wrote:Let's just try and finish this race. 4th please.

At this point that could be good for about 4th place, maybe 3rd the way some of us are running.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:35 pm

hentzau wrote:Let's just try and finish this race. 4th please.

Movement roll is 11.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:37 pm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:38 pm

I mis-read the grid. I can spend the gearbox and brake points to get down to 3rd. It would take the engine to get down to 2nd, which is farther than I need.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:58 pm

Straight Ahead.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:11 pm

Done. North Gate Corner 1/2.

El Guapo wrote:5th gear when it gets to me.

Movement roll is 12.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:13 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:I mis-read the grid. I can spend the gearbox and brake points to get down to 3rd. It would take the engine to get down to 2nd, which is farther than I need.

I saw that but I wasn't going to spoil it for you.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:14 pm

Awful nice of you.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Well you are in front of me and based on the fact I have to be careful now, I am not catching up.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:21 pm

I think I'm about as close to first as I'm going to get, myself.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:31 pm

Straight 13.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:42 pm

Done.

I spend the last brake and transmission points to get down to third gear. Movement roll is 6. Movement is left, forward 6. Le Mans Curve complete.

coopasonic wrote:5th

Movement roll is 12.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:02 am

straight 13

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:45 am

Question for my next move: based on the NickAragua discussion from a few pages ago, you can weave to move around debris, right? So it would be legal for me to move left 1, straight 2, right 1, straight 1, left 1, correct?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:49 am

That's clearly scrubbing speed which is only open for abuse in corners where you can follow the arrows to your heart's content. It's up to Isg if he will allow it as I don't think it is laid out clearly in the rules.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:58 am

coopasonic wrote:That's clearly scrubbing speed which is only open for abuse in corners where you can follow the arrows to your heart's content. It's up to Isg if he will allow it as I don't think it is laid out clearly in the rules.

That's what this is, I think:

NickAragua wrote:Does the 'moving around another car' rule count if the other car is in the next turn? a.k.a. would I be able to come out of my turn on the left side, shift right to behind bb and then move left to avoid him?

Isgrimnur wrote:I have no issues with it. It's a natural driving course rather than one designed to attempt to trim spaces off of movement.

NickAragua wrote:In that case, four forward, two left, one forward, two right, eight forward, one left, one forward.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:12 am

The first move there was coming out of a corner following an arrow I believe. That's a different ballgame and why I included that it was open for abuse in corners.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:20 am

coopasonic wrote:The first move there was coming out of a corner following an arrow I believe. That's a different ballgame and why I included that it was open for abuse in corners.

Why would that matter? As Nick describes it, he comes out of the turn, then (after having exited the turn) shifts right to a spot behind bb, and then moves left to go around him. That's why I'm pretty sure that this is the exact same thing, just that I'm shifting to behind debris rather than shifting behind a car.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:24 am

coopasonic wrote:straight 13

Done.

El Guapo wrote:Question for my next move: based on the NickAragua discussion from a few pages ago, you can weave to move around debris, right? So it would be legal for me to move left 1, straight 2, right 1, straight 1, left 1, correct?

In this case, you're already on the straight in a position to avoid the debris. If you move either direction, left or right, you'll need to stay there until entering the turn. You're close enough to "see" the debris and make adjustments after it without deliberately moving into harm's way to need swerving to avoid it. Had you started the turn in the left lane, swerving would be acceptable. In this case, I'm disinclined to allow it.

Nick exited Turn One in the left lane, shifted to the right lane in the straight, then had to shift to the middle in order to avoid driving into bb2112 when he entered North Gate (Game States 162 and 163).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:28 am

That's fine, but what's the rule here?

In both cases the driver's in the straightaway and shifts in both directions with another obstacle involved. It seems like the rule is either "if it looks on the map like the pretend driver can't see the pretend obstacle at the start of the turn, then they can shift to behind said obstacle in a straightaway to shave movement" or either "you can do it unless it feels icky."

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:43 am

The arrows in the corners are excluded from the swerve rule.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:45 am

Per the Rulebook:

Page 4 wrote:While driving on a straight, a car may only change two lanes.

“Zig-zag” driving on a straight is not allowed. A car may not change lane and return to the same lane during the same movement.

“Zig-zag” driving is allowed when overtaking another car.

Important: The maneuvre must be completed using the smallest number of spaces possible.

Page 7 wrote:The dangerous spaces can be avoided by changing lanes.

In this case, the dangerous space is already avoided by holding your lane, so changing lanes is not required. The requested movement would not be completed in the smallest number of spaces, would be changing lanes to return to the same lane later, and is not for the purpose of overtaking another car.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:51 am

coopasonic wrote:The arrows in the corners are excluded from the swerve rule.

That's irrelevant, because in Nick's case he had already exited the turn before going right and then left.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:54 am

NickAragua wrote:Does the 'moving around another car' rule count if the other car is in the next turn? a.k.a. would I be able to come out of my turn on the left side, shift right to behind bb and then move left to avoid him?

It sounds like he was exiting a turn. I certainly don't remember it. There is a rewind feature on my site, but damned if I could match it up to a point in time in the thread.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:55 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Per the Rulebook:

Page 4 wrote:While driving on a straight, a car may only change two lanes.

“Zig-zag” driving on a straight is not allowed. A car may not change lane and return to the same lane during the same movement.

“Zig-zag” driving is allowed when overtaking another car.

Important: The maneuvre must be completed using the smallest number of spaces possible.

Page 7 wrote:The dangerous spaces can be avoided by changing lanes.
In this case, the dangerous space is already avoided by holding your lane, so changing lanes is not required. The requested movement would not be completed in the smallest number of spaces, would be changing lanes to return to the same lane later, and is not for the purpose of overtaking another car.

So is it the case that the rules for overtaking a car are different than the rules for avoiding dangerous spaces? I.e. so if your move involves overtaking a car, that then permits "zig-zag driving", and "zig-zag driving" permits you to move behind the car in order to then move and overtake it. By contrast, dangerous spaces don't allow you to do "zig-zag driving", they just allow you do only what you need to do to avoid them, so you can't move behind them to set up the hazard (whereas you can move behind a car to set up the need to overtake them).

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:56 am

162 and 163.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:58 am

coopasonic wrote:
NickAragua wrote:Does the 'moving around another car' rule count if the other car is in the next turn? a.k.a. would I be able to come out of my turn on the left side, shift right to behind bb and then move left to avoid him?
It sounds like he was exiting a turn. I certainly don't remember it. There is a rewind feature on my site, but damned if I could match it up to a point in time in the thread.

You can do it by hitting "previous", then changing the number in the url to the turn number (so replace "202" with "162".

Nick was coming out of a turn during his move. However, the shifting right and then shifting left occurred after he had exited the turn (and so he was on the straightaway at that point):

NickAragua wrote:In that case, four forward, two left, one forward, two right, eight forward, one left, one forward.

The bold part was all on the straightaway.

Mostly I'm just curious what the rule is (to the extent that it's not just discretionary).

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:00 am

Now that I see the move, I am with El Guapo, the two right and back left on the straight were illegal.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:04 am

El Guapo wrote:So is it the case that the rules for overtaking a car are different than the rules for avoiding dangerous spaces? I.e. so if your move involves overtaking a car, that then permits "zig-zag driving", and "zig-zag driving" permits you to move behind the car in order to then move and overtake it. By contrast, dangerous spaces don't allow you to do "zig-zag driving", they just allow you do only what you need to do to avoid them, so you can't move behind them to set up the hazard (whereas you can move behind a car to set up the need to overtake them).

That's correct.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:06 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
El Guapo wrote:So is it the case that the rules for overtaking a car are different than the rules for avoiding dangerous spaces? I.e. so if your move involves overtaking a car, that then permits "zig-zag driving", and "zig-zag driving" permits you to move behind the car in order to then move and overtake it. By contrast, dangerous spaces don't allow you to do "zig-zag driving", they just allow you do only what you need to do to avoid them, so you can't move behind them to set up the hazard (whereas you can move behind a car to set up the need to overtake them).
That's correct.

Gotcha. Ok, I'm clear now.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 am

coopasonic wrote:Now that I see the move, I am with El Guapo, the two right and back left on the straight were illegal.

To me, the two right was a natural driving movement that would have been a reasonable move for any driver coming out of the turn seeking to adjust movement in a normal manner, and would have entered the turn in the left lane, if able. The presence of bb forced him into a suboptimal path through the turn. Again, to me, the presence of two turns in that movement is what sets it apart.