Lynching Liaisons - The End

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:18 pm

Newcastle wrote:One word of advice Vorret on the last day dont be so quick on the draw to lay down a vote. Give it a day or two to discuss things.

Yeah, lesson learned. Looking back I was really too hasty, at the time of the vote, it felt... right.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:19 pm

Vorret wrote:
Newcastle wrote:One word of advice Vorret on the last day dont be so quick on the draw to lay down a vote. Give it a day or two to discuss things.
Yeah, lesson learned. Looking back I was really too hasty, at the time of the vote, it felt... right.

That's the other side of the coin. If you are sure, sometimes it's best to vote before the wolf can get you to change your mind. It certainly saved us a lot of pain and suffering to get it out of the way quickly.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Well... damn!

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Well.
I lived in this game, but I am pretty sure that that cost me a few RL days.

Don't feel bad Vorret... it's not like you were the only one to avoid voting for me.
(and LM was indeed about to do the same to me, so it's not an automatic bad move if you are basically convinced)

Go look at Day 6. There were N+1 votes willing to be put to me, but they just never could do it at the same time. That very fact helped me a good deal.

Also - what a funny game - and then reading the spoiler forum... How many times I thought that I was going to die, and you guys thinking I was sailing pretty... and then times I thought I was doing well, you guys assumed I would be hung soon that day.

All I can say is that I'm pretty sure the only way that I could have won this is exactly the way I played it.

For every post I made - I probably composed and deleted 5. There were so many forks in the road....

My tells.... meh. Honestly guys - this was a VERY unique game (IMO). While I may indeed have tells - I've never really even felt like I was in situations like this before. I had 2 villagers begging me to join them in suicide pacts, very early in the game. Hell, LM started this game with "Why aren't you dead??".

I'm still sorta in shock over this.

Let me say a few points of 'fact' from my seat.

1) I had not yet read Remus post where he had said he was going to come out as the Seer until he had done it... my reaction on the wolf forum was "LOL are you trying to screw this up more than me?" So.. for what it's worth - we really hardly planned that at all... (although I think it may have been CRITICAL in our win.. maybe... who knows.)

2)I lynched Bakhtosh because he showed signs of Not Showing Up. And we (at least it seemed like it to me) almost didn't have a Night 1 kill because our Alpha wasn't around.... I was Beta...

Soo, that was me Legit picking a quiet player that we should get rid of.

3) I was also very interested in this game not being won by a silent/life-trouble-plagued/wolf in purge. So, I felt it was pretty important to get him lynched and I would rather 'get some credit' for it than not, plus - yeah - that was the one little thing I didn't want to be talked about too much... I basically made sure the Zerker got his shot off by forcing the purge vote.

4) The deleted post was just a knee-jerk 'clean-up' by purge (from what I could follow), and from my perspective it was a big HIT to my survivabilty... just in that I felt it may have created a Trusted in RMC and Vorret.

Also, I will just add.... I needed to be very flexible - and yet maintain some credibility, and yet not get "oh why not" lynched, and yet get people to lynch either Lassr or LM or pr0ner or what ever... for way too many days. That was really fucking hard man.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:41 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Lassr wrote:Yeah, Vorret voted too quick for the last day. Theohall did that to me a few years back. I was killed on the last day before I even logged in and the wolves won.
Meh. If he was convinced I was the wolf there was no reason not to. I would have done the same thing (agianst Unagi) if I were online first.

I thought I stood a remote chance of seeing the day start with you being worried that Vorret was using you to get me lynched....

With Vorret constantly saying that 'we must lynch Unagi, right?" - but so often not following up on it (Day 6, for instance, and then the penultimate day)... that you would be thinking that Vorret had you in his pocket and that he was tricking you to save me/you for the last day win.

No?

I was also prepared to try and talk Vorret off (what I thought may happen, but didn't) and immediate vote on me - and get him to chill, take the vote off, and reconsider.

I was clearly happy to see that I set the right balls into motion with my night kill .

(I'll point out that I think in the spoiler forum, NO ONE thought I should leave LM and Vorret alive - but I think it was my only real shot).

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:43 pm

Unagi wrote:
Lassr wrote:The Unagi train has died
Long live the Unagi train!

One of my favorite moments of the day....

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:51 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:I could have won the game ...

The fact that you didn't `scoop me pretty much blew my mind... and bugged me that it would only drive us apart.

Leading up to that moment, I thought; "Ahhh, here comes the mending of ways!! Let it wash over me...." but alas...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:52 pm

RMC wrote:And you all offed me...Told you it was Unagi...sheesh..

IIRC, I think you were in a position to end it... but since I was playing and you were passive - fail.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:53 pm

A bunch of us could have won the game and choked... this one will be hard to forget !

Also, thanks Stessier for running this, crazy game from start to finish.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:26 pm

I told everyone we should just lynch those three (LM, Lassr, Unagi), but Noooooo, we had to keep lynching different folks, instead. This should have been a win.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:30 pm

theohall wrote:This should have been a win.

It was!

Oh - you mean for the Villagers. Yeah, not so much.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:49 pm

stessier wrote:
Remus West wrote:Also, well done Unagi. Amazing.

bb2112, why did you let me get away with faking your role so long? I understand the death without speaking because you went from low votes to dead in no time flat but why let it go at all?
Check out the spoiler forum - I think page 3 and 4 it is discussed.

Yeah, I lay it all out there. No need to rehash.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:06 pm

I'm just going to assume that the village won and not look back at the last few pages.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:14 pm

theohall wrote:I told everyone we should just lynch those three (LM, Lassr, Unagi), but Noooooo, we had to keep lynching different folks, instead. This should have been a win.

Don't look at me. By day four (I think. The day after Remus died.) I agreed with you as far as lynching Unagi and myself and agreed to go first, even I didn't agree with hyper fixating on me. We were bad choices to try and figure out and would get worse as the days dragged on and there was no chance at being night kills with so many knowns to worry about killing first.

Of course my play was mostly a set up for figuring out what to do the last day, rather than worrying find the wolf now. If we did then, bonus. However, as the days dragged on Unagi went from "what if he's a wolf alive on the last day" to "He's setting himself up to be alive on the last day." He clearly changed from flirting with the idea of not wanting to be alive on the last day in his musings to "Don't lynch me." after purge died.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:11 pm

tru1cy wrote:
Vorret wrote:Well played.
Can't believe Remus put both wolves there...
always, always, always test the fake seer scans.

I disagree... mainly in that as soon as anyone makes "A Rule" like that, it's easy for wolves to exploit it.
This is just one of a million things like it in WW... Would they? Dare they? Should We? Dare We?
Yeah... You were certainly right this time. Next time that could cost you 3 villagers for no reason, and plenty of cover for the real wolves since it's an 'Automatic Rule' that you always test the fake seer scans...

tru1cy wrote:I can't believe you guys didn't go gunning for him after he offed me...

Just one of dozens of dodged bullets really.
I think it was the lunatic rantings of Theohall that drove people away from lynching me.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:21 pm

LordMortis wrote:Don't look at me. By day four (I think. The day after Remus died.) I agreed with you as far as lynching Unagi and myself and agreed to go first

I can't articulate it, but I found that 'tactic' (both you and Lassr asking me to fall on my sword for you) Un-Fun and not really very WW oriented...(I'll stop before I say it felt 'cheap') I was actually close to "quitting" when you guys were both begging to be killed first. yeah. true story.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:32 pm

Remus West wrote:Also, well done Unagi. Amazing.

bb2112, why did you let me get away with faking your role so long? I understand the death without speaking because you went from low votes to dead in no time flat but why let it go at all?

That was the turning point in the game.

Village never recovered.

Game is won if he speaks up.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:33 pm

theohall wrote:I told everyone we should just lynch those three (LM, Lassr, Unagi), but Noooooo, we had to keep lynching different folks, instead. This should have been a win.

You had the opportunity to make a better case for Unagi and didn't.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Unagi wrote:
LordMortis wrote:Don't look at me. By day four (I think. The day after Remus died.) I agreed with you as far as lynching Unagi and myself and agreed to go first
I can't articulate it, but I found that 'tactic' (both you and Lassr asking me to fall on my sword for you) Un-Fun and not really very WW oriented...(I'll stop before I say it felt 'cheap') I was actually close to "quitting" when you guys were both begging to be killed first. yeah. true story.

I only mentioned getting killed first when the wind was blowing that directions, I already had a lot of people thinking I was guilty so I felt it was going to happen, I just didn't want it to happen on the last day. Better early than the final day. I thought once I was dead then people would listen to what I was saying because they knew I was not a wolf. I thought it was a viable strategy if everyone was set on testing me.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:43 pm

You could've looked for Unagi's tells. There were many of them, specifically his post count and tone of his posts before and after Lagom Lite revealed that Holman was the Sorceror, or you could've looked at Unagi's series of "Please don't hang me" posts on July 4th, for instance.

Beyond that though was the forest missed for looking at the trees.

Unagi is very, very good at finding wolves. He misses sometimes, but he doesn't usually miss a lot, and when the village is whittled down to just a handful....well, he's not going to miss on 4 votes in a row. Period.

The wolves in any given game will take Unagi out long before the final day.

Unagi if left alive and a villager *will* get you a final wolf if given more than one crack at it.

If either of those things is happening--Unagi alive late in the game, and missing frequently, figuring out who the wolf is becomes a very easy exercise.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:46 pm

triggercut wrote:You could've looked for Unagi's tells. There were many of them, specifically his post count and tone of his posts before and after Lagom Lite revealed that Holman was the Sorceror, or you could've looked at Unagi's series of "Please don't hang me" posts on July 4th, for instance.

Beyond that though was the forest missed for looking at the trees.

Unagi is very, very good at finding wolves. He misses sometimes, but he doesn't usually miss a lot, and when the village is whittled down to just a handful....well, he's not going to miss on 4 votes in a row. Period.

The wolves in any given game will take Unagi out long before the final day.

Unagi if left alive and a villager *will* get you a final wolf if given more than one crack at it.

If either of those things is happening--Unagi alive late in the game, and missing frequently, figuring out who the wolf is becomes a very easy exercise.

Bingo.

Lassr wrote:
I agree, I came up with that wild ass theory of 2 wolves mixed in with a villager that turned out to be the hunter but didn't really push it until I felt Unagi was not being himself...I mean he didn't even make Scoop cry this game! Then when Unagi was missing on his lynch selections and then had a few posts where he would reconsider some players after thinking they may be good earlier it felt like him setting up for the end game. I was 90% confident it was Unagi. Then I got lynched before I could put a story together against Unagi.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:48 pm

triggercut wrote:You could've looked for Unagi's tells. There were many of them, specifically his post count and tone of his posts before and after Lagom Lite revealed that Holman was the Sorceror, or you could've looked at Unagi's series of "Please don't hang me" posts on July 4th, for instance.

Beyond that though was the forest missed for looking at the trees.

Unagi is very, very good at finding wolves. He misses sometimes, but he doesn't usually miss a lot, and when the village is whittled down to just a handful....well, he's not going to miss on 4 votes in a row. Period.

The wolves in any given game will take Unagi out long before the final day.

Unagi if left alive and a villager *will* get you a final wolf if given more than one crack at it.

If either of those things is happening--Unagi alive late in the game, and missing frequently, figuring out who the wolf is becomes a very easy exercise.

That post hits me in the nuts... you're right that he's really good at figuring out who's good and who isn't and we should have seen it when we kept failing.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:50 pm

I mentioned earlier that I was building a story. The day I got lynched I used the search function to pull up just Vorret, then LM, Unagi etc posts during this game. I read through them and again Unagi's demeanor was different. I had started cutting and pasting a Unagi story when I came back into the thread to find I was lynched. Bah!

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:09 pm

triggercut wrote:You could've looked for Unagi's tells. There were many of them, specifically his post count and tone of his posts before and after Lagom Lite revealed that Holman was the Sorceror,

I saw you mention this before. We knew he was the Sorcerer (obviously) and when that point was made by Lagom - I don't recall talking about it all that much. I spoke to it, where it intersected with me, but - really if you think the number of posts that I made after that announcement was a particular Tell, that just seems kinda 'loose'.

triggercut wrote:Unagi is very, very good at finding wolves. He misses sometimes, but he doesn't usually miss a lot, and when the village is whittled down to just a handful....well, he's not going to miss on 4 votes in a row. Period.

Wow, even I don't think I'm quite that good - but, I've certainly had a good run for a few games. Go back 4 games, and I think you will see me missing more.... yeah.. maybe I've reached WW Nirvana though...

triggercut wrote:The wolves in any given game will take Unagi out long before the final day.

I'm the new Grundbegriff!? Shelf Life and EVERYTHING !? nice.

triggercut wrote:Unagi if left alive and a villager *will* get you a final wolf if given more than one crack at it.

So give me 2 cracks, but not 3. And 4 is straight out!!

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:15 pm

Lassr wrote:Bingo.
Lassr wrote:
I agree, I came up with that wild ass theory of 2 wolves mixed in with a villager that turned out to be the hunter but didn't really push it until I felt Unagi was not being himself...I mean he didn't even make Scoop cry this game! Then when Unagi was missing on his lynch selections and then had a few posts where he would reconsider some players after thinking they may be good earlier it felt like him setting up for the end game. I was 90% confident it was Unagi. Then I got lynched before I could put a story together against Unagi.

Look, it's not a big secret that for "a player like Unagi", it's gonna be hard to survive from 10 villagers and 1 wolf. - - there is nothing that I did, that if I DIDN'T DO, you all would have been all over it.

best example may be Scoop.
He wasn't evil and didn't seem evil to many... So, yeah - not gonna really look 'right' if I start down that fruitless endevour - - yet you peg me for "not making Scoop cry". (pro-tip: If I were Villager, I also wouldn't have 'made him cry' this game)

Tons of examples like that... Truth is I was very much Damned if I did, and Damned if I didn't at Most Every Turn.... so, I had to take that into consideration and play a little like "I don't care if you want to test me, I'm not evil" - -- and that worked, cause there were indeed people that felt I might not be wolf.

edit: I wrote 'Unagi' where I should have written 'Scoop'

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:20 pm

Unagi wrote: I saw you mention this before. We knew he was the Sorcerer (obviously) and when that point was made by Lagom - I don't recall talking about it all that much. I spoke to it, where it intersected with me, but - really if you think the number of posts that I made after that announcement was a particular Tell, that just seems kinda 'loose'.

The flaw here is that it actually wasn't Holman being revealed as the Sorc, but rather that Bakh got hung. I could make that the line of demarcation, it makes no difference. Basically I was looking at posting from the start of that morning to the rest of the day, and the psychology of the fact that wolves in that situation would be primarily uninterested in watching or joining the village celebration.

It's not a Unagi tell.

It's a "Man, our team is going to get mopped this game, the rules are balanced against us" universal tell of any human in a mental competition such as this.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:22 pm

Vorret wrote:
triggercut wrote:You could've looked for Unagi's tells. There were many of them, specifically his post count and tone of his posts before and after Lagom Lite revealed that Holman was the Sorceror, or you could've looked at Unagi's series of "Please don't hang me" posts on July 4th, for instance.

Beyond that though was the forest missed for looking at the trees.

Unagi is very, very good at finding wolves. He misses sometimes, but he doesn't usually miss a lot, and when the village is whittled down to just a handful....well, he's not going to miss on 4 votes in a row. Period.

The wolves in any given game will take Unagi out long before the final day.

Unagi if left alive and a villager *will* get you a final wolf if given more than one crack at it.

If either of those things is happening--Unagi alive late in the game, and missing frequently, figuring out who the wolf is becomes a very easy exercise.
That post hits me in the nuts... you're right that he's really good at figuring out who's good and who isn't and we should have seen it when we kept failing.

It's not like I control every vote though. Do I? (my god.... Do I?)

I went into these last post-purge days with the idea that I would have to take heat for some lynches because people see me as "leading them" all the time... well, that's not something I DO, that's just a context I find myself in.

Day 6. There were N + 1 votes that had my name on it - but the reason people voted elsewhere was because they wanted to. I didn't suddenly become someone they were not worried about.

If there is one thing this game taught me:

It Takes A Village.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:23 pm

Unagi wrote:Well.
I lived in this game, but I am pretty sure that that cost me a few RL days.

I feel like this is what holds me back from true WW excellence.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:25 pm

I did think one thing was fascinating. Pr0ner and Unagi, in deed, acted almost identically, but Unagi felt vulnerable for doing so and pr0ner felt undeniable. And I don't think I was alone in that feeling. And as the game progressed past Remus, it felt that way more and more every single day.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:31 pm

triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote: I saw you mention this before. We knew he was the Sorcerer (obviously) and when that point was made by Lagom - I don't recall talking about it all that much. I spoke to it, where it intersected with me, but - really if you think the number of posts that I made after that announcement was a particular Tell, that just seems kinda 'loose'.
The flaw here is that it actually wasn't Holman being revealed as the Sorc, but rather that Bakh got hung. I could make that the line of demarcation, it makes no difference. Basically I was looking at posting from the start of that morning to the rest of the day, and the psychology of the fact that wolves in that situation would be primarily uninterested in watching or joining the village celebration.

It's not a Unagi tell.

It's a "Man, our team is going to get mopped this game, the rules are balanced against us" universal tell of any human in a mental competition such as this.

OK, I'm still missing what it was that I did. (not being defensive, I'm just not following you).

Can you quote me, and tell me what was so 'Oh we are Farked!' with my post?

I mean - you need to understand - I actually REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to get Bakhtosh removed from the wolf den. He was an Alpha (controlled our kills) and nearly didn't show up the first night... I was truly at peace with that kill....

And then - - this is a HUGE TOPIC that I'm not really sure about getting into but:

The Sorcerer.... I never really understood how I could fit that Game Piece into My Game. I wasn't really all that crushed (sorry Holman) that he was lost so early.... Could you imagine these last few days if I was getting "help" from some Sorcerer... My house of cards would never have survived that whirlwind.

So, I'm just trying to say that I wasn't really even all that "Oh Fark!" at that moment...

Now, us wolves, we did all feell that the odds were enormously against us - with the Blockk of 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 truted that could be made... but that was a background to the whole game for me/us - not some 'surprise' blip on a graph of post counts.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:31 pm

Unagi wrote:It's not like I control every vote though. Do I? (my god.... Do I?)

I've thought about this a lot. There are a handful of people who really do control the voting to a large extent. They may not always get their way, but they are strong in their opinions and others will listen to them. If a less strong opinion goes against them, they either change their mind or are ground to dust. You are one of these players. It's not a good or bad thing, just a thing.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm

Unagi wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote: I saw you mention this before. We knew he was the Sorcerer (obviously) and when that point was made by Lagom - I don't recall talking about it all that much. I spoke to it, where it intersected with me, but - really if you think the number of posts that I made after that announcement was a particular Tell, that just seems kinda 'loose'.
The flaw here is that it actually wasn't Holman being revealed as the Sorc, but rather that Bakh got hung. I could make that the line of demarcation, it makes no difference. Basically I was looking at posting from the start of that morning to the rest of the day, and the psychology of the fact that wolves in that situation would be primarily uninterested in watching or joining the village celebration.

It's not a Unagi tell.

It's a "Man, our team is going to get mopped this game, the rules are balanced against us" universal tell of any human in a mental competition such as this.
OK, I'm still missing what it was that I did. (not being defensive, I'm just not following you).

Can you quote me, and tell me what was so 'Oh we are Farked!' with my post?

I mean - you need to understand - I actually REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to get Bakhtosh removed from the wolf den. He was an Alpha (controlled our kills) and nearly didn't show up the first night... I was truly at peace with that kill....

And then - - this is a HUGE TOPIC that I'm not really sure about getting into but:

The Sorcerer.... I never really understood how I could fit that Game Piece into My Game. I wasn't really all that crushed (sorry Holman) that he was lost so early.... Could you imagine these last few days if I was getting "help" from some Sorcerer... My house of cards would never have survived that whirlwind.

So, I'm just trying to say that I wasn't really even all that "Oh Fark!" at that moment...

Now, us wolves, we did all feell that the odds were enormously against us - with the Blockk of 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 truted that could be made... but that was a background to the whole game for me/us - not some 'surprise' blip on a graph of post counts.

That's the cool thing about a tell.

When the person who did it didn't mean to do it and didn't realize they did it, but still creates actionable information regardless.

You didn't mean to eat your Oreo cookie To you it just meant you were hungry.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:42 pm

LordMortis wrote:I did think one thing was fascinating. Pr0ner and Unagi, in deed, acted almost identically, but Unagi felt vulnerable for doing so and pr0ner felt undeniable. And I don't think I was alone in that feeling. And as the game progressed past Remus, it felt that way more and more every single day.

I saw it for sure... (couldn't say anything)....

A few things, clearly....
1) Remus named me, not pr0ner.
2) I probably hinted to much at my desire to be seen as good because of my actions, where pr0ner just was.

What was kinda cool (for me) was that I think pr0ner (and I would have likely, if things were reversed) thought that our actions were truly 'good' acts that if they were not done would have made us only more screwed. The more 'screwed' we then became, I think the less and less pr0ner felt like turning on the one person that at least helped the village reach it's High Water Mark (me!). I can honestly say that I think I'd have had the same weekness.

To that point.. this is what sorta irked me about my play.

I feel like (after Remus was killed) I could have let you all lynch me that one day... it would have been easy, a little slip, to heavy an accusation against another player... some 'bold faced' denial of something... etc... but if I got myself lynched - I really felt like purge could possibly really gone far with very little effort. I thought that point was maybe what pr0ner kept thinking too... I could never voice that (that would get me lynched for sure), but I really did feel at some points like "I shouldn't have given a rats ass on how we won this, I should have not really pushed for the purge lynch, it got me nothing... and the reverse 'play' would have been much more effective."
Of course, who knows, etc.

Also, I keep forgetting to say this:

CR, thank you for your first night protection. That might have been awesome.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:45 pm

triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote:
triggercut wrote:
Unagi wrote: I saw you mention this before. We knew he was the Sorcerer (obviously) and when that point was made by Lagom - I don't recall talking about it all that much. I spoke to it, where it intersected with me, but - really if you think the number of posts that I made after that announcement was a particular Tell, that just seems kinda 'loose'.
The flaw here is that it actually wasn't Holman being revealed as the Sorc, but rather that Bakh got hung. I could make that the line of demarcation, it makes no difference. Basically I was looking at posting from the start of that morning to the rest of the day, and the psychology of the fact that wolves in that situation would be primarily uninterested in watching or joining the village celebration.

It's not a Unagi tell.

It's a "Man, our team is going to get mopped this game, the rules are balanced against us" universal tell of any human in a mental competition such as this.
OK, I'm still missing what it was that I did. (not being defensive, I'm just not following you).

Can you quote me, and tell me what was so 'Oh we are Farked!' with my post?

I mean - you need to understand - I actually REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to get Bakhtosh removed from the wolf den. He was an Alpha (controlled our kills) and nearly didn't show up the first night... I was truly at peace with that kill....

And then - - this is a HUGE TOPIC that I'm not really sure about getting into but:

The Sorcerer.... I never really understood how I could fit that Game Piece into My Game. I wasn't really all that crushed (sorry Holman) that he was lost so early.... Could you imagine these last few days if I was getting "help" from some Sorcerer... My house of cards would never have survived that whirlwind.

So, I'm just trying to say that I wasn't really even all that "Oh Fark!" at that moment...

Now, us wolves, we did all feell that the odds were enormously against us - with the Blockk of 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 truted that could be made... but that was a background to the whole game for me/us - not some 'surprise' blip on a graph of post counts.
That's the cool thing about a tell.

When the person who did it didn't mean to do it and didn't realize they did it, but still creates actionable information regardless.

You didn't mean to eat your Oreo cookie To you it just meant you were hungry.

But no small example? I mean you run no risk of me not eating Oreo cookies when I'm hungry.

(I think you are sorta Monday Morning this thing up the river, Triggercut - but that's your right)

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:50 pm

Does someone here have Oreo cookies? Those things are delicious.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:54 pm

El Guapo wrote:Does someone here have Oreo cookies? Those things are delicious.

E-vil

More evil than the similar Girl Scout Cookies but they're cheaper, come in a bigger package, and easily available every day.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:55 pm

From the PM I replied to stess with when he notified me I was eaten:

I will be doubly grumpy (in game terms!) if it turns out that either Vorret or Unagi were wolves.

Spoil me: are they?

(I say that because they're the two who had the biggest changes in behavior from before LL announced Holman as Sorc and after)

From the morning that Remus "cleared" you:

triggercut wrote:Unagi was going to be someone I was going to suggest we look at, so that's helpful to know.

Without giving away too many of my own secrets, I created a matrix to post that was going to show both frequency of posting in what I considered a neutral set of days pre-Bakhtosh and frequency at the start of the following day. Part of that was simply number of posts. The other part was language and wording used.

Doing that, you and Vorret stood out like like a full moon on a winter's night.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:59 pm

LordMortis wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Does someone here have Oreo cookies? Those things are delicious.

E-vil

More evil than the similar Girl Scout Cookies but they're cheaper, come in a bigger package, and easily available every day.

Have you had these doozies?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:00 pm

Nope. I literally skip the cookie aisle at the grocer to avoid gazing at the peanut butter fudge cookies. I can't walk past them.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:28 pm

triggercut wrote:Doing that, you and Vorret stood out like like a full moon on a winter's night.

This sounds a lot like Theohall's theory on the early voters on Bb2112.

When you have some random test/filter and it nets you a wolf, you insist you got yourself a wolf detector.

Next game, that might have caught Vorret and Lassr.

The early votes on bb2112 were mostly made by legit humans, and one wolf that was doing it as the most human thing he would do. If I wasn't a wolf, I'd have placed that vote on bb21122. So did Lassr. So did LM. And all for the same real reason: because we felt things he did in the game warranted a lynch.

But theohalll will sit their and insist it was an accurate wolf 'catch'. It just really wasn't.

You may think that a post spike after a LL announcement is exactly where you will catch wolves, but it's just a random check point, and a wolf passed through it.
So did Vorret.

Now I need to go back and read that part of the game and see what I was chatty about.