Secret Hitler

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:45 pm

For those not in the know:

The folks who produced Cards Against Humanity have another kickstarter, this time for a werewolf/mafia/hidden-duplicity game called Secret Hitler.

When they found out that people were rolling their own based on a screen cap from the promo video, the producers released the game and rules as b&w PDFs.

I haven't decided whether to buy, since my opportunities to play face-to-face are limited, but I thought some o' y'all might be interested.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:35 am

Read this. It's about how Secret Hitler solves the problems of Werewolf by handling secret information in a way that lends itself to more (but not too much) deduction.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:28 am

Also huge - it's called "Secret Hitler". I mean...that's gold right there.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:29 am

El Guapo wrote:Also huge - it's called "Secret Hitler". I mean...that's gold right there.

Godwin approves.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:43 am

I like how the rules file you download is called "Shitler."

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:17 pm

Interest? Before, during, or after Chaosraven's superhero game?

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:35 am

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:50 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Interest? Before, during, or after Chaosraven's superhero game?

In like Anschluss!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:53 pm

Recruiting 5-10 players.

Molière
Holman
bb2112
Chaosraven
Scoop20906
El Guapo
Remus West
...

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:45 am

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:51 pm

IN fo' sho'

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:51 pm

Rules (assuming more than 5 players)

The Teams

Two teams, Liberal and Fascist, at an approximate ratio of 2/1.
One of the Fascists is special: Hitler. Everyone else is normal.

The Equipment

A shuffled deck of policy cards, unseen until an elected President draws or three failed elections trigger an automatic draw. The policies simply say "FASCIST POLICY" or "LIBERAL POLICY" and occur at a ratio of approximately 2/1.
A rack of slots where legislated (or automatic) Liberal policies are placed. No powers.
A rack of slots where legislated (or automatic) Fascist policies are placed. Some of the slots make one-time presidential powers available. Powers available depend on the number of players.

Illustration: a Fascist policy rack showing six slots, two with policies on them and four that trigger presidential powers. (Click to embiggen.)

The Game Loop:

PRESIDENT phase: Nominate a President: random on the first term; afterward clockwise by seating (unless interrupted by a Special Election).
CHANCELLOR phase: President nominates a Chancellor. Eligible to be nominated Chancellor== was neither the last active President nor the last active Chancellor.
ELECTION phase: All players (including nominees) discuss the ticket. At any time during this discussion, any player may PM the moderator exactly once to affirm or oppose the pair of candidates. To affirm, pm "YES"; to oppose, pm "NO". Each player must vote and may vote exactly once; the vote is irrevocable. As soon the moderator has received a vote from every player, the moderator will post a list, in seating order, of the players and their votes. (Note: a player may prolong the discussion by withholding a vote, but the moderator may intervene with the dilly-dallier and force a choice if this privilege is abused.)
- Candidates Elected!: Election of the proposed pair of candidates requires a true majority of "YES" votes.
- Hitler Elected Chancellor!!!: If three Fascist policies have already been enacted and Hitler is elected Chancellor, the Fascists immediately win. GAME OVER. (Election of Hitler as President, or as Chancellor in the absence of three prior Fascist Policies, does nothing.
- Ticket Rejected!: If the players reject three proposed pairs of candidates in a row (one of these failures may be the result of a veto), then the next policy in the shuffled deck is automatically enacted (but cannot trigger a one-time Presidential power), and everyone becomes eligible for nomination at Chancellor. Successful election or automatic policy enactment resets the failure count to 0. Whenever the proposed candidates are rejected, skip the LEGISLATION and ACTION phases and proceed to END OF TURN.
- If the proposed candidates are elected, the current Game Loop proceeds to the next phase.
LEGISLATION phase: The President draws 3 policies (from the moderator by PM) and informs the moderator which 2 to forward to the Chancellor. The Chancellor must select one of those 2 and enact it on the appropriate policy rack. At no time should the actual PMs from or to the moderator be disclosed in the game thread; however, players may mislead others about the contents of those communications.
ACTION phase: If a non-automatic Fascist policy grants the President a special power, he may openly discuss how to proceed but must enact that policy.
END OF TURN: The turn is over and the Game Loop starts again.

Notes

Players may not PM one another. Players may PM the moderator at any time.
5-10 players: Fascists know one another and know Hitler; 5-6 players: Hitler knows the other Fascists; 7-10 players: Hitler does not know the other Fascists.
Liberals win by enacting five Liberal policies or by killing Hitler.
Fascists win by enacting six Fascist policies or by electing Hitler Chancellor after three Fascist policies have been enacted.

Special Powers (triggered by certain slots on the Fascist policy rack)

Investigate Loyalty: President asks the moderator for the alignment of another player. (Hitler shows only as "Fascist").
Call Special Election: President names the next Presidential candidate. After that outcome is resolved, Presidential candidacy resumes where it would've gone prior to the special election.
Policy Peek: President looks at the next three undisclosed Policies (without changing their order).
Execution: President orders the death of another player's character; alignment is revealed only if the target is Hitler.

Veto Power

If five Fascist Policies are enacted, then the Chancellor gains a veto over the pair of policies provided secretly by the President: rather than have to enact one of them, the Chancellor may-- only with the President's concurrence-- reject them both and do nothing. If this happens, the game proceeds as normal but the count of failed elections increases by 1.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:11 pm

Questions?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 4:11 pm

This seems so interesting. I can't wait to give it a whirl.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:02 pm

I don't want to commit until I've read the rules, but I'm interested.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:49 pm

Rules are summarized above.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:07 pm

I've read the summarized rulez but Yeah I don't quite get i but I think we can all agree I'm not good with rulez.

Grund, could you maybe opine on the strategy that the facists and liberals might take?

I can see how the facists would win but getting three facists policies and the electing Hitler as President. Do the Liberals merely win by voting three liberal policies and killing Hitler?

It seems like Liberals have no real powers.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:13 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:It seems like Liberals have no real powers.

They have the power of Righteousness!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:29 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Grund, could you maybe opine on the strategy that the facists and liberals might take?

Hitler should try to seem Liberal, seem unsuspicious, and privately figure out who his colleagues are.
Hitler's colleagues should try to stay hidden and try to help Hitler achieve (unsuspicious!) late-game election as Chancellor.
Liberals should try to pass Liberal policies and try to identify Hitler and the Fascists.

The President-Chancellor legislation mechanism allows room for deception:

Prez and Chance are both fascists: Prez draws three cards, discards a Liberal policy, passes two to his colleague. Chance plays a Fascist policy. Lies: Chance says that Prez passed him two Fascist policies; Prez says that he drew three Fascist policies. Since there are twice as many Fascist policies as Liberal policies, the lies are plausible... but suspicious!

Prez is a Fascist but Chance is a Liberal: Prez tries to give two Fascist policies to Chance and falls back on the same lie: that there were three and so he had no choice. OR Prez uses it as an opportunity to gain LibCred by giving Chance one or two Liberal policies so Chance can enact one.

Prez is a Liberal but Chance is a Fascist: Prez will know whether he gives Chance a Liberal policy, so if Chance receives both kinds and enacts the Fascist policy, then Prez will know Chance is a Fascist. But nobody else will know for sure; Chance will cast suspicion on Prez by saying that Prez passed her two Fascist policies.

Prez and Chance are both Liberals: They'll try to enact a Liberal policy, but if Prez really does draw three Fascist policies and has to pass two to Chance, it's not going to look good.

I can see how the facists would win but getting three facists policies and the electing Hitler as President. Do the Liberals merely win by voting three liberal policies and killing Hitler?
It seems like Liberals have no real powers.

Liberals win by enacting five Liberal policies... or by figuring out who Hitler is and then gaining the presidency at just the right time and killing him. This is made easier by the fact that Fascists have to go along with passing some Liberal policies in the beginning to maintain their cover.

The game has apparently been shown to be extremely well balanced.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:33 pm

I'd like to play if a spot is open. Thanks for the insight. I'm sure we will discuss it to death during the game as well.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:38 pm

OK, I like the Prez-Chance mechanism. That should be interesting. This makes the vote for president more interesting as well as people jockey to get people the trust in the president role.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:38 pm

There's also the early-game possibility that the Liberals will want to enact some Fascist legislation. A Liberal President might welcome the chance to "Investigate Loyalty" and test a suspected Fascist.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:39 pm

Holman wrote:There's also the early-game possibility that the Liberals will want to enact some Fascist legislation. A Liberal President might welcome the chance to "Investigate Loyalty" and test a suspected Fascist.

The risk is they help the facists get to their win state faster, correct?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:41 pm

Also, by sheer coincidence I just started reading Richard Evans' The Coming of the Third Reich...

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:42 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Holman wrote:There's also the early-game possibility that the Liberals will want to enact some Fascist legislation. A Liberal President might welcome the chance to "Investigate Loyalty" and test a suspected Fascist.
The risk is they help the facists get to their win state faster, correct?

Yes. But the temptation would be strong, especially if the President is trusted.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:43 pm

If you'd like to get a better sense of how it plays (in person, not in forum), there are some playtest videos over here.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:46 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:If you'd like to get a better sense of how it plays (in person, not in forum), there are some playtest videos over here.

I'll check it out. I actually tried to watch a game on Twitch the other day on another channel and there was just TOO much shouting so I had to tap out. I check out this stream, thanks.

I'm sufficiently interested to be excited about this when we start the game.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Jan 01, 2016 10:21 pm

I am in.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:38 am

stessier wrote:I don't want to commit until I've read the rules, but I'm interested.

I smell liberal...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:14 pm

I'll play

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:15 pm

Good. That will make finding Hitler a lot easier.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:42 pm

bb2112 wrote:Good. That will make finding Hitler a lot easier.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:58 pm

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:39 pm

Should this run after the current Superhero Werewolf game or concurrent with it?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:19 am

I would say concurrent, myself.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:40 am

El Guapo wrote:I would say concurrent, myself.

Sieg Heil, mein Führer!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:49 am

I'd like to start soon, but I'm not in the other game anyway.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:25 am

In particular, I'd like to hear from Chaosraven. He's signed up for this one but running the other one. Meanwhile, additional votes either way are welcome.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:50 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:In particular, I'd like to hear from Chaosraven. He's signed up for this one but running the other one. Meanwhile, additional votes either way are welcome.

I could wait but I could start too. So, Im fine then.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:52 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:In particular, I'd like to hear from Chaosraven. He's signed up for this one but running the other one. Meanwhile, additional votes either way are welcome.

That. I'm inclined to run them at the same time, both because the other game is moving at a snail's pace and because it'll probably take months even if it picks up.

I need confirmation, though. I don't want to be rude to Chaosraven, so I'd particularly like to hear whether he objects and whether, not objecting, he's still in.

If we can get this baby off the ground, we'll be able to taste Secret Hitler before it goes stale.