[WW] Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves - Good wins!

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:51 pm

El Guapo wrote:Is there any reason to not pick a name out of a hat on day 1?

We basically are. I pulled RMC. Want to join in and see if we can get info?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:54 pm

bb2112 wrote: Listen, and understand! RMC is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with. He doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until someone from Detroit is dead!

Nobody got the quote?

Spoiler:

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:47 pm

bb2112 wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Is there any reason to not pick a name out of a hat on day 1?
We basically are. I pulled RMC. Want to join in and see if we can get info?

I was in fact the first RMC vote.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:11 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Moliere (1) - Remus West
Chaosraven
bb2112 (1) - RMC
RMC (4) - Scoop20906, bb2112, RevHempus71, Chaosraven
Vorret (0) - RevHempus71
stessier
El Guapo
Grundbegriff (1) - Moliere
RevHempus71
Remus West (1) - stessier
Scoop20906

Quorum is six votes

Not seeing it.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:29 pm

bb2112 wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Moliere (1) - Remus West
Chaosraven
bb2112 (1) - RMC
RMC (4) - Scoop20906, bb2112, RevHempus71, Chaosraven
Vorret (0) - RevHempus71
stessier
El Guapo
Grundbegriff (1) - Moliere
RevHempus71
Remus West (1) - stessier
Scoop20906

Quorum is six votes
Not seeing it.

Here:

El Guapo wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:I'm Elongated Man!

I'm convinced.

RMC

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:57 pm

So it's actually n-1?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:02 am

That was prior to game start.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:00 am

Isgrimnur wrote:That was prior to game start.

I was not aware of that.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:11 am

El Guapo wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:That was prior to game start.
I was not aware of that.

It is within your power to rectify the situation. Why haven't you?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:16 am

Because he obviously wants credit for First Vote.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:49 am

Chaosraven wrote:Because he obviously wants credit for First Vote.

But he currently has no vote on RMC. And wanting credit for first vote but not restoring that vote when it's pointed out that the vote isn't actually in place seems... odd.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:07 am

Indeed it does

So he was okay with being on the vote when his was the first vote.
Even as a "random name out of a hat".

But not putting it back when it means n-1 after being notified it hadn't counted.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:24 am

There is a big difference between being the first vote and the n-1 vote. The latter merits more deliberation (that I wasn't going to give last night on my phone on the can at a restaurant).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:29 am

That said, seeing as how there does not appear to be a reason to pick anyone else,

RMC

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:34 am

El Guapo wrote:That said, seeing as how there does not appear to be a reason to pick anyone else,

RMC

<sigh> It's Valentines day so let's all feel the love, and it would be to our benefit to take votes off me, prior to a scoop happening.

I had hoped to just be a regular dude this game, but alas, I am not.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:21 pm

I do not believe this. But...

remove RMC

I don't think RMC should be allowed to claim special without declaring. If he dies over night we don't know what he was.

Do the bad guys learn the role of who they kill?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 1:35 pm

They do not. No coroner, and scans take place after stabby-stabby. As far as they're concerned, they've spread chaos.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:55 pm

Moliere (1) - Remus West
Chaosraven
bb2112 (1) - RMC
RMC (4) - Scoop20906, bb2112, RevHempus71, Chaosraven, El Guapo
Vorret (0) - RevHempus71
stessier
El Guapo
Grundbegriff (1) - Moliere
RevHempus71
Remus West (1) - stessier
Scoop20906

Quorum is six votes.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:33 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:I do not believe this. But...

remove RMC

We all know that you did this so you could scoop the vote.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 4:14 pm

Moliere wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:I do not believe this. But...

remove RMC

We all know that you did this so you could scoop the vote.

Shhh!

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:32 pm

RMC wrote:
El Guapo wrote:That said, seeing as how there does not appear to be a reason to pick anyone else,

RMC

<sigh> It's Valentines day so let's all feel the love, and it would be to our benefit to take votes off me, prior to a scoop happening.

I had hoped to just be a regular dude this game, but alas, I am not.

withdraw RMC

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:28 am

RevHempus71

He's obviously guilty, just look at him!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:11 am

Robin: alignment scanner by night (+role if target is evil)
Azeem: guardian by night (nonconsecutive). Scans for Mortianna.
Will: potential turncoast (if scanned by Sheriff)
Maid Marian: it's complicated

Sheriff: scans for Robin, Marian, or Will by night
Mortianna: scans for Robin by night.
Guy: Assassin by night. (understudies: Sheriff, Will if evil)

Isgrimnur: in your Maid Marian section, what should this sentence be? "This will allow the evil team to attempt to one of the powered players."

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:15 am

to scan one

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:24 am

Thanks

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:02 am

vague claims are equivalent to no claim. Make your claim, RMC, and risk being countered.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:06 am

Remus West wrote:vague claims are equivalent to no claim. Make your claim, RMC, and risk being countered.

Since scanning is the driving gameplay mechanism here, I disagree.

By coming forward, RMC gives scanners are target but still requires them to expend a charge to find out whether/what he is. He narrows the field to the figures mentioned in my previous post, but leaves enough mystery that scanners will have to ask themselves: is it worth it?

Meanwhile, we can deal with this on another track, by deciding whether to press him under a board or simply monitor him until we understand him better.

This is all obvious, so for suggesting otherwise a certain person deserves our more focused and violent attention: Remus West

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:50 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:vague claims are equivalent to no claim. Make your claim, RMC, and risk being countered.
Since scanning is the driving gameplay mechanism here, I disagree.

By coming forward, RMC gives scanners are target but still requires them to expend a charge to find out whether/what he is. He narrows the field to the figures mentioned in my previous post, but leaves enough mystery that scanners will have to ask themselves: is it worth it?

Meanwhile, we can deal with this on another track, by deciding whether to press him under a board or simply monitor him until we understand him better.

This is all obvious, so for suggesting otherwise a certain person deserves our more focused and violent attention: Remus West

odds are even that whatever role he has, if it involves getting scanned by the Sheriff, it is of more value to the bad guys then to us. Nice of you to over look that part while talking about the scans.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:11 pm

Remus West wrote:odds are even that whatever role he has, if it involves getting scanned by the Sheriff, it is of more value to the bad guys then to us. Nice of you to over look that part while talking about the scans.

Interesting that you assume(?) he's good. My working assumption is that he might be evil and trying to save his skin.

Hear ye! Hear ye! Remus of Nottingham knows who's a good guy!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:07 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:odds are even that whatever role he has, if it involves getting scanned by the Sheriff, it is of more value to the bad guys then to us. Nice of you to over look that part while talking about the scans.
Interesting that you assume(?) he's good. My working assumption is that he might be evil and trying to save his skin.

Hear ye! Hear ye! Remus of Nottingham knows who's a good guy!

Grundbegriff wants to buy time for a possible Sheriff to scan is just as valid a claim as yours against me.

Any suggestion that we allow him to live carries the assumption of his being good or there would be no reason for us to even talk about it. I merely commented on the scenario you put forward of allowing him to live. I stand by offing him unless he makes a full claim.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:27 pm

Remus West wrote:Any suggestion that we allow him to live carries the assumption of his being good or there would be no reason for us to even talk about it.

That's a dangerous, and potentially fatal, assumption. In truth, any suggestion that we allow him to live carries the assumption that we don't know what he is but don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot. We allow him to live not because his claim proves he's good, but because his claim means he may be good.

I merely commented on the scenario you put forward of allowing him to live. I stand by offing him unless he makes a full claim.

"Why make evil work harder?" ~Remus West

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:41 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:Any suggestion that we allow him to live carries the assumption of his being good or there would be no reason for us to even talk about it.
That's a dangerous, and potentially fatal, assumption. In truth, any suggestion that we allow him to live carries the assumption that we don't know what he is but don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot. We allow him to live not because his claim proves he's good, but because his claim means he may be good.
I merely commented on the scenario you put forward of allowing him to live. I stand by offing him unless he makes a full claim.
"Why make evil work harder?" ~ Grundbegriff

ftfy

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:00 pm

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:34 pm

Moliere (1) - Remus West
Chaosraven
bb2112 (1) - RMC
RMC (3) - Scoop20906, bb2112, RevHempus71, Chaosraven, El Guapo
Vorret (0) - RevHempus71
stessier
El Guapo
Grundbegriff (1) - Moliere
RevHempus71 (1) - Vorret
Remus West (2) - stessier, Grundbegriff
Scoop20906

Quorum is six votes.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:28 pm

Ok. I feel the need to point out the Remus wasn't the first to express that RMC should announce his role. If he is lying and the Sheriff why wouldn't we want to get him today before the he potentially scans and locks up Robin Hood tonight?

That's the risk we take. Also, if he is a good guy isn't it a waste of a scan to use it on him.

Yes we have lots of scans. Let's put them to good use.

I think he is lying, btw. Remember RMC is the devil.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:26 am

Sorry, traveling today and it has been hard to get to OO. So why don't we want RMC to divulge? Are the game mechanics of this game so different than other games we are not going to press the issue?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:34 am

I don't get it - if RMC is Good, our protector is alive and can play the shell game with him tonight. I don't see the point of Evil scanning him - if they know he is a Special, they just kill him and move on. I don't see the point of the Sheriff at all really - it's a nice way to get a kill, but hardly necessary.

If he's Evil, we'll presumably figure that out in a day or so when he doesn't die. Forcing him to claim a role only outs the one who would counterclaim.

So what am I missing.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:12 am

Ugh. I forgot about the protector. And since he can protect back to back RMC is effectively safe. Ok forget I said anything. Still think he is lying.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:37 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Robin: alignment scanner by night (+role if target is evil)
Azeem: guardian by night (nonconsecutive). Scans for Mortianna.
Will: potential turncoast (if scanned by Sheriff)
Maid Marian: it's complicated

Sheriff: scans for Robin, Marian, or Will by night
Mortianna: scans for Robin by night.
Guy: Assassin by night. (understudies: Sheriff, Will if evil)

Isgrimnur: in your Maid Marian section, what should this sentence be? "This will allow the evil team to attempt to one of the powered players."

Given these roles, it seems like it's only really bad for the village for RMC to reveal if RMC is Robin or Azeem, right (and most especially if he's Azeem)? If he's Marian, then Azeem protects her and Robin scans her tonight. If he's Will, then at least the village benefits from knowing who our turncoat is (Will would also be naturally reluctant to publicly identify his role, because he may hope to live on as a member of Team Evil).

I'm also wondering whether if Robin is identified, whether the wolves would imprison him or kill him. Imprisoning him lets him keep scanning (which could be devastating if the village offs the Sheriff within two days), but also essentially offers up the chance of an extra night kill.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:38 am

bb2112 wrote:Sorry, traveling today and it has been hard to get to OO. So why don't we want RMC to divulge? Are the game mechanics of this game so different than other games we are not going to press the issue?

FWIW as best I can tell this is the first time I've heard someone argue in favor of letting someone claim special without disclosing their specific role, so I'd be interested in any further arguments that Grund has on this point.