[WW] Danger Zone REDUX! -- Night 3

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:53 pm

Vote tally:

(6) stessier: Vorret, Grundbegriff, LordMortis, bb2112, Lassr, Chaosraven
(2) Scoop: Moliere, stessier
(2) El Guapo: Scoop, Unagi
(1) Lassr: Newcastle
(1) Newcastle: El Guapo

Not voting:
Remus West

I muddled the tally earlier. I believe it's correct now. Please let me know if I have you mis-listed.

Majority is 7

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:54 pm

There are a few things we should talk over before end of this day - in other words DON'T LYNCH ANYONE JUST YET.

I'm not commenting on any specific lynch choices right now but there are some things we need to talk through that have been ignored.
For instance:
Why bb2112 for first target?
Why did RMC die?

First question can only be answered with speculation at best but the second we can work some things out on.

If our protector is still in the game (and he has to be since we have lost one assassin and Cheryl) why was RMC and his free scan not protected? Answer - unless he was protected night 1 they most likely had to use their ignore a protection power. Which would mean that triggercut was their unpowered player. So day 1 may yield more goodies than we think. Who would have gotten hit if not triggercut? Was he a good find by us or a sacrifice to save a power by them? If RMC wasn't protected first or last night then the protector has some answering to do at game end as any other choice last night would have been foolish.

I have not gone back to look at day one but I'd encourage folks to do so before we continue down the segue path we have begun this day.

Don't get an itchy trigger finger before we fully look at things. Be patient.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:03 pm

Newcastle wrote:
Lassr said-
and reading that link, I miss Qantaga.
and theohall hasn't been around in a while.
/OOC

Theohall hasn't been around since December i think. I checked a bit ago since I'd not seen him around for a while. Might even be july of last year since he played.
Lagom has also gone awol as well. (at least from playing, i've not seen him around)
Truicy hasnt been playing; proner, semaj the list grows....

Lots of fallen and fadded away comrades

We had a rough spot last year with dead games, people not participating, people stopped playing but I think we're back in strides the last few game have been very entertaining, the hitler games really reignited passion since it was so different.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:14 pm

Remus West wrote: Don't get an itchy trigger finger before we fully look at things. Be patient.

focus on your breathing and patience will follow
(scooping shall not occur from this being)

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:27 pm

Remus West wrote:There are a few things we should talk over before end of this day - in other words DON'T LYNCH ANYONE JUST YET.

I'm not commenting on any specific lynch choices right now but there are some things we need to talk through that have been ignored.
For instance:
Why bb2112 for first target?
Why did RMC die?

First question can only be answered with speculation at best but the second we can work some things out on.

If our protector is still in the game (and he has to be since we have lost one assassin and Cheryl) why was RMC and his free scan not protected? Answer - unless he was protected night 1 they most likely had to use their ignore a protection power. Which would mean that triggercut was their unpowered player. So day 1 may yield more goodies than we think. Who would have gotten hit if not triggercut? Was he a good find by us or a sacrifice to save a power by them?

If RMC wasn't protected first or last night then the protector has some answering to do at game end as any other choice last night would have been foolish.

/maintains grinning sloth
/sips on steaming green tea
/clears throat

Why BB? - i would imagine part of the reason is to create a narrative of the detroit killing spree/revenge that has become more prevalent in the game. Who this benefits and how is a solid question. Ones not associated with the detroit crew would benefit by the chaos and cross accusations that proliferate from such a killing. It would also create a distraction from searching for killers within a certain pool. That is one explanation that comes to mind. If we look at it - bb, remus & CR, LM and possibly RMC (though distant) are part of that crew. BB being dead would focus attention on Remus, CR & LM for day 1.

Why RMC? One unpowered explanation is that the protector chose BB to protect over RMC. Because RMC was essentially useless correct, except being a most likely good category. And as evil, you need to start chopping away at the goodly provens to maintain your hiding pool. RMC cleared Remus right, hence he had no power left except for being "mostly proven". BB still provides solid value to the group in that he can possibly take someone out of his choosing.

The protector played a shell game and I would argue made the right choice in not protecting RMC? Now do i know for certain, no. However if as evil, I would save the Katya power until Mallory comes out and prevent a further scan. That's the proper usage of Katya. Mallory would be target #1.

/notices his tea has cooled
/sips further
/spreads fingers to attain maximum grinning sloth

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:32 pm

I really think someone else should be the Day's target. Obviously Scoop, but at this point it doesn't look like I should be picky.

In other news, I'm up to episode 29 and am enjoying them.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:52 pm

At this point in time, with RMC proven good by assassination, triggercut proven bad by lynch, remus west proven good by RMC scan, and nobody contesting bb2112, we must still have a Mallory (now with 2 scans), a Lana who presumably can still play chicken with nighttime attempts and who could conceivably tell us that it was a Protection fail (proving a Katya and iding trig as UselessMan) if that was the case.

If Assassins kill either bb2112 (proving him as Archer) or Remus overnight we would STILL have a Lana and a Mallory (with presumably THREE scans) and 11 players.

If our lynch today is an ISIS who isn't either L/M, we'd have (bb/RW), L, M, and info on 3 players. 6/11 leaving 5 with 2 Assassins, assuming 3 isis scans.
If M has an Assassin that wasn't trig, we'd have (bb/RW), L, M, and 2 isis, 1 Assassin, 5-1/11 leaving 5 with 1 assassin among them.

What would awesome is stessier being Barry and surviving the lynch...

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:53 pm

Newcastle wrote:Why RMC? One unpowered explanation is that the protector chose BB to protect over RMC. Because RMC was essentially useless correct, except being a most likely good category. And as evil, you need to start chopping away at the goodly provens to maintain your hiding pool. RMC cleared Remus right, hence he had no power left except for being "mostly proven". BB still provides solid value to the group in that he can possibly take someone out of his choosing.

The protector played a shell game and I would argue made the right choice in not protecting RMC? Now do i know for certain, no. However if as evil, I would save the Katya power until Mallory comes out and prevent a further scan. That's the proper usage of Katya. Mallory would be target #1.

I think I talked about RMC kill the night before, unless I kept it to myself hoping things would go another way. Nope, this was my thought in the night's kill.

LordMortis wrote:This also make Remus the most in need of dying tonight so it really becomes a game of protect Remus or protect bb/RMC who are both now demonstrably unpowered and is RMC better than bb as Cheryl's blabbermouth or RMC better to be held until later to choose roles to spoof from a smaller pool.

For that matter now that I think about this, it's been fortuitous from beginning to end. When RMC dies, we as a group know the assassins have an ace up their sleeve and that ace is going to be hard to pull out with both Cheryl and Sterling revealed.

*shrug*

I'm still on Moliere. I could probably be coaxed to move Friday is over but, whatever. I'm no hurry. I was more curious for the RMC reveal than I am to see to Trig or anyone other than Moliere or perhaps Stess hang.

I figured last night was gamble between Remus a possible Mallory or RMC and a sure scan on of someone.

I really figured Remus was potentially a better target. So I don't concur with idea Lana had to protect RMC, even if I might have if I were Lana. Remus has as of good of a chance of being Mallory as did the assassins of finding Mallory in the mix. There was also a chance that the assassins pulled Remus name and that name isn't Mallory when they murdered RMC/Cheryl.

I think the assassins were quite frankly wrong for not holding off on RMC until tonight.

All that said, I don't doubt the kill was a protected kill and would happily proceed from the idea that Trig was Conway but I suppose we'll see.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:54 pm

Because if he gets to 7 today, he shouldn't be either L or M having had a chance to say something.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:55 pm

Oh right, RW could be either L or M.

pfeh.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:56 pm

Well that screws up a bunch of my numbers as a possibility.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:22 pm

stessier wrote:I really think someone else should be the Day's target. Obviously Scoop, but at this point it doesn't look like I should be picky.

In other news, I'm up to episode 29 and am enjoying them.

I guess that means you are nobody important. Glad you are enjoying the show.

My gut tells me this is a mistake to finish Stess off, but it will give me a read on a few others depending on how this turns out.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:37 pm

/inhales deeply
/releases
/exits maximum grinning sloth

Let's engage in pondering of various configurations of this reality...

What if stessier is pure within the cosmos and Grund isn't? Eliminating Stessier being within the cosmos would be unwise with that perspective. When Grund is shrouded in light he pivots and finds other auras to read. Grund is self aware that his time is short within these universes and hence attempts to create maximum information. Surviving until Day 2, is a joyous. Day 3 and his aura dims in the view of many. Grund is also very attuned to others aura's. If he indeed wishes us ill, he will drive the village lynch one whom he suspects as special.

A question arises are we being misled?

Much to ponder, I must sift through past events to achieve better clarity.

/arranges elbows and fingers
/achieves alert penguin

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:38 pm

Some of you seem to forget that RMC provided team assassin with a free scan of a living ISIS player. That is why he was most likely chosen.

Of course, I know this because I helped develop the new role rules for Cheryl but some of you seem to be playing without reading the rules for each role. Understandable if it is a large complex game but this one is not.

So Newcastle, you kept saying above that RMC was unpowered...

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:01 pm

Lassr wrote:Some of you seem to forget that RMC provided team assassin with a free scan of a living ISIS player. That is why he was most likely chosen.

Of course, I know this because I helped develop the new role rules for Cheryl but some of you seem to be playing without reading the rules for each role. Understandable if it is a large complex game but this one is not.

So Newcastle, you kept saying above that RMC was unpowered...

/breathes deeply

I failed to see that. My thanks to you. Indeed that would provide greater impetus to severing RMC from this world.

As a note, a brief rereading of parts of the first day. The triggercut train exploded fast. Within 2 hours he went from 1 to n-1. And by then he was hanging around in an area where most would expect a "special/not special" statement.

Unagi indeed was the first vote, while Grund second. However, prior to Unagi & Grund's accusation others had mentioned Triggercut negatively. I note this because some view Grund innocently due to his leadership of that train; where there really was little leadership by him. Also the triggercut suspicions did not originate from Grund is my point. Grund could simply have placed the vote as a placeholder and intended to move it later. However, the train seriously went fast and to a moment where it was a fait accompli.

Grund could very well harbor the best of intentions for all of us; however this reading of the triggercut train could be a possibility.

/exhales
/extends further into alert penguin

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:02 pm

withdraw lassr

(there will be no scooping nor killing vote from myself until a vigorous discussion has occurred)

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:09 pm

Lassr wrote:Some of you seem to forget that RMC provided team assassin with a free scan of a living ISIS player. That is why he was most likely chosen.

Of course, I know this because I helped develop the new role rules for Cheryl but some of you seem to be playing without reading the rules for each role. Understandable if it is a large complex game but this one is not.

So Newcastle, you kept saying above that RMC was unpowered...

Nope. RMC's power is exactly why I thought it was silly of the assassins to choose RMC over Remus.

(though I freely admit, I jump in without a thorough understanding of rules and have to go back. And while that may still be the case here, RMC was the wrong play. Most especially if they blew a protected attack on it)

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Of course the odds are the same that team Assassin was given bb2112 as Archer as anything else, right?

the assassins learn the specific role of a living ISIS player, chosen randomly.

12 ISIS players (4 special, 8 regular) and 3 Assassins.

Minus Dead Cheryl, there's 11 Isis. 3 Special (A, L, M) and 8 regular.
Only 2 of those matter for info to the assassins, really. Removing a single name doesn't narrow their search down very far.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:16 pm

Waiting for a smaller pool for that Random Info would have been the smarter play.
A lynch or two of Isis Normals, taking down Remus (unknown ISIS), perhaps a run up the ol' flagpole of L or M and a shot at them if trig wasn't K.
Hell, killing RMC proved the Remus Scan.

These Assassins are a couple of rubes.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:19 pm

Newcastle wrote:(there will be no scooping nor killing vote from myself until a vigorous discussion has occurred)

It's not a scoop if you allow a long drawn out discussion.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:27 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Of course the odds are the same that team Assassin was given bb2112 as Archer as anything else, right?

I assume this is the case but when I assume I make an ass of you.

Only 2 of those matter for info to the assassins, really. Removing a single name doesn't narrow their search down very far.

I'm not sure if that's the case. I don't do math but lets say 17% chance of getting a special and if you don't then you get to know who not to kill at night. OtOH, now you are making wonder if RMC should have been both after bb2112 and Remus.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:28 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Waiting for a smaller pool for that Random Info would have been the smarter play.
A lynch or two of Isis Normals, taking down Remus (unknown ISIS), perhaps a run up the ol' flagpole of L or M and a shot at them if trig wasn't K.
Hell, killing RMC proved the Remus Scan.

These Assassins are a couple of rubes.

Plus if they blocked the proection they lost an ability on top of scanning all ISIS players reducing their chance at a good result.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:38 pm

bb2112 wrote:
stessier wrote:I really think someone else should be the Day's target. Obviously Scoop, but at this point it doesn't look like I should be picky.

In other news, I'm up to episode 29 and am enjoying them.
I guess that means you are nobody important. Glad you are enjoying the show.

My gut tells me this is a mistake to finish Stess off, but it will give me a read on a few others depending on how this turns out.

Yeah, I am inclined to read stessier's post the same way, though I wouldn't mind him making that clearer. Could also be a wolf being coy.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:54 pm

So you expect him to stop being coy and admit to being a wolf?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:55 pm

Newcastle wrote:
Lassr wrote:Some of you seem to forget that RMC provided team assassin with a free scan of a living ISIS player. That is why he was most likely chosen.

Of course, I know this because I helped develop the new role rules for Cheryl but some of you seem to be playing without reading the rules for each role. Understandable if it is a large complex game but this one is not.

So Newcastle, you kept saying above that RMC was unpowered...
/breathes deeply

I failed to see that. My thanks to you. Indeed that would provide greater impetus to severing RMC from this world.

As a note, a brief rereading of parts of the first day. The triggercut train exploded fast. Within 2 hours he went from 1 to n-1. And by then he was hanging around in an area where most would expect a "special/not special" statement.

Unagi indeed was the first vote, while Grund second. However, prior to Unagi & Grund's accusation others had mentioned Triggercut negatively. I note this because some view Grund innocently due to his leadership of that train; where there really was little leadership by him. Also the triggercut suspicions did not originate from Grund is my point. Grund could simply have placed the vote as a placeholder and intended to move it later. However, the train seriously went fast and to a moment where it was a fait accompli.

Grund could very well harbor the best of intentions for all of us; however this reading of the triggercut train could be a possibility.

/exhales
/extends further into alert penguin

This is a good point. Unagi was more the leader on Triggercut than Grund. While Grund gets some credit for being on early, you're right that it exploded so could've gotten out of hand for a wolf Grund (if he wanted to later remove his vote).

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:55 pm

bb2112 wrote:So you expect him to stop being coy and admit to being a wolf?

I agree with this, let's change the rules

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:56 pm

bb2112 wrote:So you expect him to stop being coy and admit to being a wolf?

I would certainly appreciate it! We're on the honor system here, people.

But seriously, it's more about requiring specifics, since wolves can play in ambiguity.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:56 pm

Remus West wrote:There are a few things we should talk over before end of this day - in other words DON'T LYNCH ANYONE JUST YET.

I'm not commenting on any specific lynch choices right now but there are some things we need to talk through that have been ignored.
For instance:
Why bb2112 for first target?
Why did RMC die?

First question can only be answered with speculation at best but the second we can work some things out on.

If our protector is still in the game (and he has to be since we have lost one assassin and Cheryl) why was RMC and his free scan not protected? Answer - unless he was protected night 1 they most likely had to use their ignore a protection power. Which would mean that triggercut was their unpowered player. So day 1 may yield more goodies than we think. Who would have gotten hit if not triggercut? Was he a good find by us or a sacrifice to save a power by them? If RMC wasn't protected first or last night then the protector has some answering to do at game end as any other choice last night would have been foolish.

I have not gone back to look at day one but I'd encourage folks to do so before we continue down the segue path we have begun this day.

Don't get an itchy trigger finger before we fully look at things. Be patient.

You're just trying to prolong the inevitable.
You're totally dying tonight.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:05 pm

Chaosraven wrote:You're just trying to prolong the inevitable.
You're totally dying tonight.

I'm truly puzzled you didn't kill him last night.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:08 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:You're just trying to prolong the inevitable.
You're totally dying tonight.

I'm truly puzzled you didn't kill him last night.

Given that I have no ability to do so, it's less of a puzzle than a taunt.
(Game 1 I was given Assassin, then Lana on reboot, now I get friggin' nobody)

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:08 pm

Or maybe it's a Feint.

*eyebrow waggle*

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:09 pm

Soooooo, is someone going to Scoop stessier? I'd do it but my vote is already on him. No pressure, he didn't claim special after all.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:18 pm

Vorret wrote:Soooooo, is someone going to Scoop stessier? I'd do it but my vote is already on him. No pressure, he didn't claim special after all.

It's not scooping if he's said his peace is it? piece is it? peas is it?

I also already have my vote on him, or I'd put him down.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:19 pm

Chaosraven wrote:now I get friggin' nobody)

Quoted for future reference.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:22 pm

Vorret wrote:Soooooo, is someone going to Scoop stessier? I'd do it but my vote is already on him. No pressure, he didn't claim special after all.

No i find this discussion useful.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:23 pm

stessier

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:25 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:now I get friggin' nobody)
Quoted for future reference.

Hey now, no OOCQs allowed!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:26 pm

And stessier just sits and watches.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:28 pm

Chaosraven wrote:And stessier just sits and watches.

Reading actually - back to work today after a week off so was a bit busy. Ah well - at least I can concentrate on work now.

Good luck!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:30 pm

And to be unambiguous - I am no one. He even forgot to give me a role first time out. Not that I have a complex or anything...