Star Wars - The Empire's Challenge - Game Over

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:02 pm

If perhaps you mean "why aren't they spouting off when they are N-2, N-3, N-5" the threat of a lynch
(and perhaps lynching one of our own Specials) is far off and the tides of voting may change rapidly
so that they need not expose themselves (and if they were considered suspicious by the village, wolves are less likely to off them at night)

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:15 pm

Thank you both for the explanations..
I still think it is risky t wait...
If someone is at N3 and goes to N2, If Dooku hasn't voted he can end it quickly... If Dooku has voted, then it does give the accused a little leeway..

But, even if someone claims special, we won't know if it's a wolf in sheeps clothing.. so back to a lot of this game being random.... at least until everyone in the game being familiar with everyone else and having some idea how they think...
That's one benefit I will have in future games... I never know what to think until the voices speak...

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:42 pm

Hence the ideal of reaching a consensus of some sorts a good bit earlier than the deadline.

A wolf-fake-seer-lynch-escaper may buy himself 'a day', but on the morrow he looks pretty odd for surviving the night.
A real-seer-lynch-escaper will very likely be killed in the night, and hence his 'seer declaration and info dump' become trusted.

where-in the idea of 'lynch escaper' implies we try and find another target. (keep in mind, games with deadlines are somewhat new/rare so that played out differently than here)

also... with a force-choke, that may not play out in this game at all.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:48 am

I didn't know the deadline thing was new.. What happened before? Did games just go on forever?

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:52 am

Also, does anyone know if this game will be over by 4/9? I am going away from the 10th through the 23rd on vacation (and coincidentally going here: http://www.starwarscelebration.com/
Just sure if I am bring a laptop or how much time I will be online. I"should be able to get on at least once a day until the convention starts, then not sure at all about the Thurs-Fri of the convention.. Those will be long days..

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:12 am

Unagi wrote:If he is a wolf - and I managed to get him lynched I would look like a ROSE. (cause he's been trying to get me lynched tirelessly)

I'm not the only one who thinks Unagi is a bad, nasty Imperial. That's why he's at 5 so fast today. Maybe there's a wolf in there looking for cover, but I expect they're hiding in the wings for the last-minute train.

After reviewing how the tru1cy vote went down, these back-to-back posts by Unagi capture some of why I'm so convinced about him being EVIL:

Unagi wrote:Not sure what to do here.

oh what the hell
Vorret

Unagi wrote:I'm feeling particularly slutty - so I could probably move my vote just about anywhere.

here is a question we always toss around:

IS IT THE END OF THE WORLD IF WE DON'T LYNCH ANYONE ?

Is it?

Unagi wrote:Also, I would like to strongly suggest that Mon Mothma uses here power sooner than later. I think thwarting an early night kill and giving people a little data early is Key here, and she should have used her power last night.

1. If Unagi is a Rebel, he's pretty damn unlucky at killing off other Rebels. Moreso than El Guapo.

2. Unagi's posts above about "maybe we won't lynch today" would only help the Empire. And then he switches back (at n-1) to help take out tru1cy, which does help the Empire.

3. It's also pretty damn convenient that Unagi was able to convince Vorret to use the Mon Mothma power while at the same time putting on the pressure that exposed him.

4. Could Newcastle have been Obi-Wan pissed off by getting nailed on Day 1? Unagi was the last vote. It seemed innocent at the time, as everyone (even I) agreed that Newcastle imploded. The whole thing turned out ugly, but what if was worse than anyone expected?

5. Unagi was quick today to characterize Moliere surviving as a Wolf mistake. What if it wasn't? What if exposing Mon Motha was part of the plan, with a bonus of killing tru1cy? Perhaps the Empire thought Moliere would lead us away from Unagi after being "released," or he's irrelevant to their plan. I fear Unagi was able to force a Rebel error in burning Mon Mothma yesterday, and is about to pull it off again.

6. I am a REBEL. I could be wrong about Unagi, but I wouldn't be alone. But you should be suspicious as Rebels right now if you don't believe me. So why is Unagi trying to turn you against each other for being suspicious?

7. There are only 10 Rebel votes, and we're going to need 7 of them to nail an Imperial assuming that only Jorrus would want to be on the majority vote of 8. Splitting our vote means either a miss (with no info) or letting the Imperials swing the vote. I think that's their game today, and why I'm stepping into the breach.

Between Vader's force choke and the 2 overvotes, I think we're in a precarious situation if the "Unagi thing" doesn't get resolved. Proving Unagi one way or the other will get some actual information, rather than just pissing all over ourselves in the dark.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:40 am

Zarathud wrote:1. If Unagi is a Rebel, he's pretty damn unlucky at killing off other Rebels. Moreso than El Guapo.

I take no ownership of the Newscastle lynch. None. You trying to slap that on me is absurd and makes you look like you are reaching for reasons. Regardless, every lynch included a Majority of Rebels and only wolves know what votes to stay clear of. What kind of "LUCK" does one need to be on the lynch of a rebel?

Zarathud wrote:2. Unagi's posts above about "maybe we won't lynch today" would only help the Empire.

That is not a fact. That is an opinion. If a Rebel is lynched, it helps the Empire. In any case, I am ONE voice, and I brought it up mostly to hear how people articulated their opinions on the 'debate'. But you are saying the 4 wolf players all told me to (or were ok with my idea to) go out and try and get people to agree to that... because everyone trusts Unagi... "Yeah, go out and see if they will maybe just not lynch anyone." And why would a wolf suggest we not lynch tru1cy? Why? Why not let the lynch go? Wolves don't sit around and try and make No lynch happen unless it's a lynch on a wolf. Lynches are very often their free-lunches.

Zarathud wrote: And then he switches back (at n-1) to help take out tru1cy, which does help the Empire.

LOL - you want to throw mud on me for BOTH reasons, within the same bullet point?
And since everyone had a hissy-fit that I suggested no lynch (or - held back their opinion entirely) , and I had been concerned about a quiet tru1cy earlier - I figured we may as well.... but I did it reluctantly (as you pointed out) and wanted to find, what I hoped would be a better target.

Zarathud wrote:3. It's also pretty damn convenient that Unagi was able to convince Vorret to use the Mon Mothma power while at the same time putting on the pressure that exposed him.

That sounds like a pissed off wolf talking, Zarathud. Me getting Mom Mothma to use her power - IMO - is my "golden crown of goodness". (and I would argue a number of vet players suspect I made a 'Good' move like that Just To Look Good, the complete opposite of your take (same resultant read though)). I didn't have any clue he was Mon Mothma and didn't ever want Mon Mothma to declare themselves - I was telling "Mon Mothma at large" that she should use her power that night. Period. That pissed you off real good I can see. You sound like a wolf trying to describe that anger in a "Villager" way, but it's empty. (IMO)

Zarathud wrote:4. Could Newcastle have been Obi-Wan pissed off by getting nailed on Day 1? Unagi was the last vote. It seemed innocent at the time, as everyone (even I) agreed that Newcastle imploded. The whole thing turned out ugly, but what if was worse than anyone expected?

Newcastle gets pissed, not sure what else to tell you. And it got stupid. How again, are you making this Point Number Four about me?

Zarathud wrote:5. Unagi was quick today to characterize Moliere surviving as a Wolf mistake.

It was.

Zarathud wrote:What if it wasn't?

It was.

Zarathud wrote:What if exposing Mon Motha was part of the plan, with a bonus of killing tru1cy?

Huh? First of all, you realize that my request was for Mon Mothma to quietly and anonymously use her power, and that it was indeed the right idea? But back to your "part of the plan" - what on earth was that plan again?

Zarathud wrote:Perhaps the Empire thought Moliere would lead us away from Unagi after being "released," or he's irrelevant to their plan.

I can just hear a bunch of wolves discussing how they could maybe save Unagi. "Let's get Moliere trusted, and he will go out there and direct everyone away from Unagi. LOLs! ".
OR - "maybe Moliere is irrelevant to the plan"... but then what was the plan again? To get BB2112 to assign Vorret the role of Mon Mothma, and then have Vorret come out as Mon Mothma after I request that Mom Mothma uses her power that night? That was the plan?

Zarathud wrote:I fear Unagi was able to force a Rebel error in burning Mon Mothma yesterday, and is about to pull it off again.

I don't think many people here feel that I forced a Rebel error yesterday, in the burning of Mon Mothma. You may have Archinerd and Holman in your camp.

Zarathud wrote:6. I am a REBEL. I could be wrong about Unagi, but I wouldn't be alone.

OK, so point 6 is that you have company - that's comforting.

Zarathud wrote:So why is Unagi trying to turn you against each other for being suspicious?

This is sorta a funny statement.

Zarathud wrote:7. There are only 10 Rebel votes, and we're going to need 7 of them to nail an Imperial assuming that only Jorrus would want to be on the majority vote of 8. Splitting our vote means either a miss (with no info) or letting the Imperials swing the vote. I think that's their game today, and why I'm stepping into the breach.

Welcome to the breach, dude.

Zarathud

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:41 am

and for The Record: I'd have rather tested RMC today (and kinda wanted to test Scoop, but didn't want to be rude)

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:50 am

Day 3 Votes:
1. El Guapo ------>
2. Remus West -->
3. Chaosraven --->
4. Lassr -----------> Zarathud
5. Moliere --------> Unagi
6. Archinerd -----> Unagi
7. Scoop20906 ---> El Guapo
8. RMC ------------> Unagi
9. Isgrimnur ------>
10. PLW -----------> El Guapo
11. Punisher ------>
12. Holman -------> Unagi
13. Unagi ----------> RMC, Zarathud
14. Zarathud ------> Unagi

Votes:
5 Unagi - Archinerd, Zarathud, Moliere, RMC, Holman
2 El Guapo - PLW, Scoop20906
2 Zarathud - Lassr, Unagi

8 Votes Needed

Dead:
Day 1 - Newcastle -------> Stabbed
Night 1 - Grundbegriff --> Strangled
Day 2 - Tru1cy -----------> Bashed
Night 2 - Vorret ----------> Sacrificed

Deadline:
Deadline: Monday, March 20th, 8PM EDT

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:50 am

Still torn between El Guapo and Zarathud and now they are both at 2 votes..........hmmmmm.........

El Guapo

I think I can learn the most from this one.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:58 am

Since we're still giving the new guy a pass, I'll go with Zarathud

.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:17 pm

Unagi wrote:and for The Record: I'd have rather tested RMC today (and kinda wanted to test Scoop, but didn't want to be rude)

Could ya just stick on one for more then a second please? I was just about to join you.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:25 pm

Remus West wrote:Still torn between El Guapo and Zarathud and now they are both at 2 votes..........hmmmmm.........

El Guapo

I think I can learn the most from this one.

Well, my 'A' threat list has grown a bit: El Guapo, Issy, RMC, and Unagi.

I added Unagi there now because he has played hot potato with this vote and seemed to be trying to build a case against zarathud. I'm not sure what is going on between those two right now but its not doing Unagi any favors.

But I agree with Remus that testing El Guapo would be an interesting test right now. Like I said before I could switch to a RMC vote in heart beat (in fact I was considering it until Unagi bolted again).

And if we get deadlocked again on Monday I will say that since I've already outted myself as the Cliff Clavin if star wars that I'm a safe target so we don't end up with a dead lock.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:02 pm

I don't think I'd learn much from Unagi's identity - his numbers went up WAY to fast for me to feel there are not Imperials on that vote. Since I don't think they'd work that quickly to lynch one of their own AND let it stall out so close to the edge I can only conclude one of two things happened there. Either Unagi is Imperial and the other three are already voting for him OR Unagi is Rebel. I can not see Unagi as Imperial in that situation since they would drop other votes on him to send him over and gain cred for the rest if that were the case and they were able. I also can not see all three of them dog piling one of their own who without them wouldn't have much attention at all right now. So, in spite of his faulty judgement where I am concerned, I lean very strongly towards his being a good guy. I don't trust him but he is pretty close to the lowest on my "lynch list".

Just my interpretation of the situation.

Since Scoop sees a link between Unagi and Zarathud...........

Zarathud

Lets see where this takes us.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Well, it looks like momentum on Unagi is failing again. I really hope he's good. On to my #2 then, which some of you have hinted that you would support a vote on.
Withdraw Unagi

RMC

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:20 pm

El Guapo

Zarathud seems to be head strong against Unagi. Not sure he would be some emphatic as an imperial, knowing Unagi would come back rebel... unless they are both imperials playing us.

I am willing to test El Guapo. If it comes down to it on Monday I will vote Unagi. His play does seem off to me but other times he has seemed good.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:48 pm

Day 3 Votes:
1. El Guapo ------>
2. Remus West --> El Guapo, Zarathud
3. Chaosraven --->
4. Lassr -----------> Zarathud, El Guapo
5. Moliere --------> Unagi
6. Archinerd -----> Unagi, RMC
7. Scoop20906 ---> El Guapo
8. RMC ------------> Unagi
9. Isgrimnur ------> Zarathud
10. PLW -----------> El Guapo
11. Punisher ------>
12. Holman -------> Unagi
13. Unagi ----------> RMC, Zarathud
14. Zarathud ------> Unagi

Votes:
4 Unagi - Zarathud, Moliere, RMC, Holman
3 El Guapo - PLW, Scoop20906, Lassr
3 Zarathud - Unagi, Isgrimnur, Remus West
1 RMC - Archinerd

8 Votes Needed

Dead:
Day 1 - Newcastle -------> Stabbed
Night 1 - Grundbegriff --> Strangled
Day 2 - Tru1cy -----------> Bashed
Night 2 - Vorret ----------> Sacrificed

Deadline:
Deadline: Monday, March 20th, 8PM EDT

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:09 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Unagi wrote:and for The Record: I'd have rather tested RMC today (and kinda wanted to test Scoop, but didn't want to be rude)
Could ya just stick on one for more then a second please? I was just about to join you.

Sorry, join me and Archinerd now then.

RMC

If the Zarathud train takes off and this RMC train goes no where, I will return - but as I said - I'd rather test RMC.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:34 pm

Dude, stick with me this time.

Accuse RMC

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:44 pm

Somebody make the case for RMC, then. I'd like to hear it.

Preferably based on this game rather than on something he did three games ago.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:59 pm

So the Empire now has one guy on each vote, I bet. Seriously, WTF.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:42 pm

Holman wrote:Somebody make the case for RMC, then. I'd like to hear it.

Preferably based on this game rather than on something he did three games ago.

too quiet would be my reason. Silent wolf trying not to be noticed.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:10 pm

Yep. RMC is too quiet and also quick to jump on the latest Unagi bandwagon.

There were 5 of us on the bandwagon, here's my quick read on each.
Me: I am not a wolf and I trust myself.
Zarathud: I get a wolfy vibe from him but with his latest post I feel like he is actually trying to figure things out. If he was a wolf I would think he would have tried to lay low since it's tax season.
Moliere: Proven good guy
RMC: Too quiet, and relatively quick to jump on the vote.
Holman: Has me convinced he is good... for now.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:25 pm

RMC

And THEN Zarathud.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:53 pm

Archinerd wrote:Yep. RMC is too quiet and also quick to jump on the latest Unagi bandwagon.

There were 5 of us on the bandwagon, here's my quick read on each.
Me: I am not a wolf and I trust myself.
Zarathud: I get a wolfy vibe from him but with his latest post I feel like he is actually trying to figure things out. If he was a wolf I would think he would have tried to lay low since it's tax season.
Moliere: Proven good guy
RMC: Too quiet, and relatively quick to jump on the vote.
Holman: Has me convinced he is good... for now.

Fine.
RMC

That puts him at 5/8. n-3

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:59 pm

RMC

N-2 I believe so please no more votes right now.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:24 am

May I humbly request that we return to using "WITHDRAW [Whomever]" when we shift votes?

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:35 pm

Holman wrote:May I humbly request that we return to using "WITHDRAW [Whomever]" when we shift votes?

Seconded... I'm sure that will make it easier for everyone.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:42 pm

I'm just remembering when someone complained about the speed of the train on Unagi.

This RMC business blew up pretty quickly.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:05 pm

Lassr wrote: RMC

N-2 I believe so please no more votes right now.

Is there a time limit to give people to respond?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:37 pm

Holman wrote:I'm just remembering when someone complained about the speed of the train on Unagi.

This RMC business blew up pretty quickly.

Faster and with less reason -- basically just for giggles. I'm thinking the Empire is protecting Unagi -- same trick they pulled on tru1cy and Vorret.

RMC has kids so I'm waiting to hear him out during work hours in the morning.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:52 am

Day 3 Votes:
1. El Guapo ------>
2. Remus West --> El Guapo, Zarathud, RMC
3. Chaosraven ---> RMC
4. Lassr -----------> Zarathud, El Guapo, RMC
5. Moliere --------> Unagi
6. Archinerd -----> Unagi, RMC
7. Scoop20906 ---> El Guapo, RMC
8. RMC ------------> Unagi
9. Isgrimnur ------> Zarathud
10. PLW -----------> El Guapo
11. Punisher ------>
12. Holman -------> Unagi
13. Unagi ----------> RMC, Zarathud, RMC
14. Zarathud ------> Unagi

Votes:
6 RMC - Archinerd, Unagi, Scoop20906, Chaosraven, Remus West, Lassr
4 Unagi - Zarathud, Moliere, RMC, Holman
1 El Guapo - PLW
1 Zarathud - Isgrimnur

8 Votes Needed

Dead:
Day 1 - Newcastle -------> Stabbed
Night 1 - Grundbegriff --> Strangled
Day 2 - Tru1cy -----------> Bashed
Night 2 - Vorret ----------> Sacrificed

Deadline:
Deadline: Monday, March 20th, 8PM EDT

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:25 am

Scoop20906 wrote:\

I'm think I agree with Lassr that the Moliere proving by the imps screams rookie/careless baddies. I've tried to see how it was a calculated move but I still can't see the benefit unless Newcastle was a Jedi and Jorus was on his vote and got a scan.

Getting caught up.

On this, I will say that it's pretty plausible scenario to me where Newcastle was Qui-Gon (say), gets super annoyed about getting run up on day 1 and throws a hissy fit about it (refusing to disclose his role). Jorus would almost certainly be on the vote, so if Newcastle was a Jedi, then the bad guys would have a scan. And Newcastle being a Jedi would fit his odd "you'll know what I was" (or something like that) remark before he died.

Still not sure that would explain the decision to target Moliere, however. If they had a scan, and if they scanned Moliere, and if Moliere had a special role (didn't Moliere say he was a regular villager?), even then...my sense going into night 2 was that Vorret was probably going to use his power (but not *definitely*). They might have worried that Vorret might not use his power and Qui-Gon might protect Vorret, leading to a miss. But with the sense that Vorret was *probably* going to use his power...they wouldn't want to target a known special and thereby prove that special claim, right?

So even if they did have a scan, if they're being super cautious about avoiding potential misses, they would target someone they think is a regular villager.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:58 am

Zarathud wrote: RMC has kids so I'm waiting to hear him out during work hours in the morning.

Tick tock.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:00 am

Ok, so RMC, then. From what I can tell 90% of the case against him is him being quiet. Which, ok, all things considered someone being quiet is a good tie-breaker in voting for them, because if you miss and hit a villager, best to off one who is quiet so that the remaining players have a track record that you can mine for information for your votes on subsequent days. The remaining 10% is mostly that he is the Devil, which, while undeniably true, I'm pretty sure does not impact the random-number-generator assigning roles.

The other information I have available is that I know that I'm good, and several current RMC voters switched from me to RMC. So...all misguided villagers, or is there at least one wolf looking for a convenient mark? Possibly to protect an imperial Unagi?

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:26 am

I'm worried that the Empire has scanned someone other than Moliere who they want to kill badly enough to leave a proven -- tonight by a kill while Qui-Gon is occupied, or today if they can drive the vote.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:27 am

Unagi

Let's bring some balance to the vote totals.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:30 am

Day 3 Votes:
1. El Guapo ------>
2. Remus West --> El Guapo, Zarathud, RMC
3. Chaosraven ---> RMC
4. Lassr -----------> Zarathud, El Guapo, RMC
5. Moliere --------> Unagi
6. Archinerd -----> Unagi, RMC
7. Scoop20906 ---> El Guapo, RMC
8. RMC ------------> Unagi
9. Isgrimnur ------> Zarathud, Unagi
10. PLW -----------> El Guapo
11. Punisher ------>
12. Holman -------> Unagi
13. Unagi ----------> RMC, Zarathud, RMC
14. Zarathud ------> Unagi

Votes:
6 RMC - Archinerd, Unagi, Scoop20906, Chaosraven, Remus West, Lassr
5 Unagi - Zarathud, Moliere, RMC, Holman, Isgrimnur
1 El Guapo - PLW

8 Votes Needed

Dead:
Day 1 - Newcastle -------> Stabbed
Night 1 - Grundbegriff --> Strangled
Day 2 - Tru1cy -----------> Bashed
Night 2 - Vorret ----------> Sacrificed

Deadline:
Deadline: Monday, March 20th, 8PM EDT

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 am

Isgrimnur wrote: Unagi

Let's bring some balance to the vote totals.

Hmmmm. On the one hand I probably lean more towards voting Unagi than RMC at this point. On the other this is a terrible vote justification.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:40 am

Have you not been following my MO this game?